The SUPERIOR thread

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Postby JPF » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:10 pm

henk wrote:JPF:
My solver used an Empty Rectangle and a XY-Wing to solve your first puzzle. The others are singles only...

Sorry.
I should have checked before.

JPF
JPF
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 3752
Joined: 06 December 2005
Location: Paris, France

Postby henk » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:17 pm

Ruud:
My solver used 4 x-wings for the first and just 1 for the second...
And it needed 2 naked triples for the first and just 1 for the second..
Last edited by henk on Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
henk
 
Posts: 18
Joined: 30 December 2005

Postby tarek » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:40 pm

Puzzle list at start of thread now updated (39 superiors)

JPF, the puzzles you post are either more difficult than required or too easy....

Great contribution from everybody....

Keep them coming.....

Tarek
User avatar
tarek
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: 05 January 2006

Postby tarek » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:46 pm

here is another one......
Code: Select all
Puzzle #040(tarek)
 . . 2 | . . 8 | . . 4 
 . . 5 | . . . | . 1 . 
 8 7 . | . . 2 | 3 . . 
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . . 7 | 8 . . 
 7 4 3 | . . . | 1 9 6 
 . . 8 | 6 . . | . . . 
-------+-------+------
 . . 6 | 7 . . | . 2 3 
 . 5 . | . . . | 4 . . 
 1 . . | 4 . . | 6 . . 

Good variety, Not as difficult as some of the rest

Tarek
User avatar
tarek
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: 05 January 2006

Postby ab » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:16 pm

I seem to be much better at tinkering with other people's puzzles. I typed in the wrong number when I was inputting Tarek's latest and got this:
Code: Select all
Puzzle (ab/tarek)
 . . 2 | . . 8 | . . 4 
 . . 5 | . . . | . 1 . 
 8 7 . | . . 2 | 3 . . 
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . . 7 | 8 . . 
 7 4 3 | . . . | 1 9 6 
 . . 8 | 9 . . | . . . 
-------+-------+------
 . . 6 | 7 . . | . 2 3 
 . 5 . | . . . | 4 . . 
 1 . . | 4 . . | 6 . . 


That was accidental. I also butchered another of Henk's puzzles:
Code: Select all
.........
..4.8.1..
.8.6.7.5.
95.2.8..7
2...6...3
7..4.3.29
.6.8.2.3.
..1.9.4..
.........

I'm glad Jpf#2 was deemed too hard, because it beat my solver, as did his first effort.
ab
 
Posts: 451
Joined: 06 September 2005

Postby tarek » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:35 pm

Hi ab,

The last time you modified a puzzle, you made it more difficult:D , however on puzzle #040, it became a easier:( (although valid).

& on puzzle #31, the puzzle still is around the same difficulty, it however lost the reflective symmetry:( (still valid though).

I'm sure the guys tried it on their puzzles & decided to post the more difficult ones....

good ones but not to be added to the updated list. The list as it stands now has 40 Superiors. All found in the 1st post in this thread.

Tarek
User avatar
tarek
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: 05 January 2006

Postby ravel » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:15 pm

Still enjoying and also advertising this thread. Concerning the question, if handmade or programmed puzzles are better, i now can say, handmade patterns and computed puzzles are ultimate:)
ravel
 
Posts: 998
Joined: 21 February 2006

Postby Ruud » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:11 pm

This is a fully symmetrical puzzle.

Code: Select all
. 3 .|. 6 .|. 2 .
2 . .|8 . 7|. . 5
. . 9|. . .|3 . .
-----+-----+-----
. 8 .|. . .|. 4 .
1 . .|. 2 .|. . 3
. 4 .|. . .|. 5 .
-----+-----+-----
. . 6|. . .|4 . .
4 . .|1 . 3|. . 7
. 7 .|. 9 .|. 8 .


No too tough, but superior looks!

Ruud.
Ruud
 
Posts: 664
Joined: 28 October 2005

can I play too?

Postby foxglove » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:01 am

Code: Select all
I love the way it solves!
.....349.
3...6.8..
17...9...
2.1......
.3.....4.
......6.8
...4...51
..6.7...2
.278.....


4.7....85
3.9..5...
.......94
.4.9.8...
.........
...5.2.7.
83.......
...1..2.9
95....1.8


4..8.5..6
.1.....3.
..7.9.2..
9.......7
..5.1.6..
8.......1
..6.5.3..
.2.....6.
7..4.2..8

..3...9..
.5.....7.
7..3.9..1
..2.9.8..
...786...
..4.1.7..
9..8.2..4
.6.....3.
..8...5..



.1.....6.
64.....38
..9.4.7..
...5.2...
..7.3.4..
...4.7...
..6.1.2..
23.....76
.8.....5.


.527.....
....3...1
.....2..3
..7.4...2
.3.6.7.8.
6...2.9..
9..8.....
1...6....
.....516.

foxglove
 
Posts: 12
Joined: 04 February 2006

Postby Ocean » Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:38 am

Here is a candidate puzzle with four 'empty boxes':
Code: Select all
 Puzzle B-001 (Ocean)
 *-----------*
 |8.5|...|4.6|
 |.9.|...|.7.|
 |6.1|...|8.9|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|815|...|
 |...|.6.|...|
 |...|243|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |9.4|...|1.8|
 |.3.|...|.5.|
 |5.8|...|3.7|
 *-----------*

(Think there should be 2 naked triples, one hidden triple and one x-wing, plus a few naked pairs and 'locked candidates'.)
Ocean
 
Posts: 442
Joined: 29 August 2005

Postby ab » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:03 am

Ocean wrote:Here is a candidate puzzle with four 'empty boxes':
(Think there should be 2 naked triples, one hidden triple and one x-wing, plus a few naked pairs and 'locked candidates'.)


Nice puzzle Ocean. You don't need a triple to solve it. x-wing, pairs and locked candidates is enough. Still very nice though.
ab
 
Posts: 451
Joined: 06 September 2005

Postby tarek » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:17 am

Ruud,
Nice diamond

foxglove,
your puzzle are symmetrically beautiful, they need to be a bit harder for a superior, see if you can fit an x-wing or a triple or multiple doubles into them, the second of your puzzles is very close to the suprior level

Ocean,
Nice one

The updated list at the start of the thread now stands at 42 superiors.

Tarek
User avatar
tarek
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: 05 January 2006

Postby tarek » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:42 pm

I was wondering......

The best thing for these probably is to appear in a sudoku special with one of the newspapers.....

I'm sure Pappocom can pull a few strings & then we may wake up to find our puzzles printed & our names cited as members of the Sudoku Players' Forums....

Just a thought...

Tarek
User avatar
tarek
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: 05 January 2006

Re: The SUPERIOR thread

Postby tso » Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:46 pm

tarek wrote:The thread about one of the recent superior sudokus published in the Sunday times, got me this idea....

The programmers here can generate all type of puzzles.....Why not crate a thread where everybody can post their puzzles & then create one huge post with numerous superior puzzles. I will update this post with valid entries. The puzzles will be numbered & will containg the member's name.

Code: Select all
Rules: (They should follow the difficulty level of the Times superior):
1. Unique solution 9*9 vanilla sudoku
2. 180 rotational symmetry around centre point (at least, any Extra would be even better)
3. Maximum difficulty for subsets is Hidden triples (ex. times Superior 8), No Quads
4. Maximum fish difficulty is the X-wing (no swordfish)
5. If the puzzle is not solved after reaching the techniques mentioned in points 3 & 4 then it will not be permitted. (XY wings, colouring, ..... are not permitted)....
6. limit your enthusiasm to 15 puzzles per member



Not that it really matters, but the Times defines "Superior Sudoku" as "Very Hard". That is, all Superior Sudoku should be rated as "V.Hard" by Pappocom's program -- and vice versa. I just rated the first 12 puzzles in the first post. Only eight were rated "V.Hard". The four below are rated only "Hard".

Code: Select all


Puzzle #002 (ab)
 . . . | 5 . . | . . . 
 . . 2 | . 7 3 | . . . 
 . . 8 | . . . | 4 9 . 
-------+-------+------
 . 1 . | . . . | . . 5 
 . 3 . | . 2 . | . 6 . 
 6 . . | . . . | . 8 . 
-------+-------+------
 . 6 5 | . . . | 1 . . 
 . . . | 3 9 . | 2 . . 
 . . . | . . 4 | . . . 

Puzzle #003 (Ruud)
 . . 5 | 7 . . | . . . 
 . . . | . 9 3 | . . . 
 . . 7 | . . 1 | 6 . 4 
-------+-------+------
 2 . . | . . 8 | . 6 . 
 . . . | . 2 . | . . . 
 . 1 . | 4 . . | . . 5 
-------+-------+------
 5 . 4 | 8 . . | 3 . . 
 . . . | 6 3 . | . . . 
 . . . | . . 2 | 9 . . 

Puzzle #007 (vidar)
 . 1 5 | . . . | . 3 . 
 . . . | 6 1 5 | . . . 
 8 . . | . . 9 | . 7 . 
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . . . | 7 1 2 
 . . . | . 6 . | . . . 
 3 4 7 | . . . | . . . 
-------+-------+------
 . 7 . | 3 . . | . . 6 
 . . . | 5 2 7 | . . . 
 . 2 . | . . . | 3 4 . 

Puzzle #012 (gsf)
 . . . | . . . | . 9 . 
 . 6 7 | 2 . . | 8 . . 
 . . . | . . 1 | 3 . 4 
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . 5 . | . 8 9 
 4 . 6 | . 8 . | 2 . 3 
 7 8 . | . 6 . | . . . 
-------+-------+------
 6 . 4 | 5 . . | . . . 
 . . 2 | . . 6 | 5 3 . 
 . 3 . | . . . | . . . 
tso
 
Posts: 798
Joined: 22 June 2005

Postby tarek » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:01 pm

Thanx tso,

This gives an insight to how Pappocom rates the puzzle......

The common feature between the mentioned "Hard"s was that all of them did not need neither a triple nor an x-wing to solve........

That is slightly unfair...because Ruud's puzzle had 6 doubles in it.....

I've checked the database I have of Times superiors & indeed all required either a triple or an x-wing.........

Guys.......

Rules are going to be updated.... & unfortunately....some of the puzzles have to go now..........:(

Puzzles affected would be Numbers:2,3,5,7,12,14,21,23,24,25,26,27,35,41

Now Puzzle 5 although (no triples & no x-wing) apparantly still is rated as V Hard, which means that Whoever rated it must have looked to its naked triple counterpart IMO......

Is it possible to check the above puzzles rating on the software so that we could keep all those hidden doubles......

Tarek
User avatar
tarek
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: 05 January 2006

PreviousNext

Return to General