The SUPERIOR thread

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Re: The SUPERIOR thread

Postby ab » Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:06 pm

Code: Select all

Puzzle #00?(ab)
 . 5 8 | . . . | 4 1 . 
 7 . . | 4 . 5 | . . 3 
 2 . . | . 1 . | . . 9 
-------+-------+------
 9 . . | . 4 . | . . 2 
 . 7 . | . . . | . 3 . 
 . 6 . | . . . | . 5 . 
-------+-------+------
 . . 1 | . . . | 8 . . 
 . . . | 2 . 7 | . . . 
 . . . | . 5 . | . . . 


I want to post this heart puzzle here because it's one of my favourites, even though it doesn't meet your symmetry requirements. It was a computer aided design. I used my solver to find it before I automated the search. It's also the puzzle I used for my animated tutorial (see another thread).
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Postby ravel » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:18 pm

With my implementation of triple/x-wings my solver cannot solve Vidar 008 and 009 (??).
From my solvers output i would rank them following (i give a good bonus, if more techniques are needed)

ab #006
Ruud #010
Ruud #011
tarek/ab #004
gsf#010
Ruud #003
tarek #001
ab/tarek #005
vidar #007
ab #002
ravel
 
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Postby tarek » Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:18 pm

Well Well Well,

I'm happy with how things are shaping up

ab, Super...new entry at #006, The Heart puzzle is excellent, I'm tempted to include it because it has reflective symmetry, but I think we should stick with rules, but then I'm tempted change the rules, beautiful:(

Vidar, Excellent Stuff.... The first puzzle #007 looks to be the hardest of the 3....

Ruud, hard ones indeed,

gsf, the puzzles theat require FNBT & FNBTW are at the level we want, the rest seem to be much easier to solve, the last of your entries had also some reflective symmetry in addition to the 180 rotational symmetry, AWESOME

Total until this post 15 puzzles (& a wild heart:D )

Tarek
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Postby henk » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:00 pm

Tough rules! I used the 'generate custom hardest' function and let it run for a while on your constraints. My program
These are the hardest I found (rated harder then any other in this post using my program, i rated #11 from Ruud 2711 and tareks #1 2938):

Rating 3364 (4-way symmetry):
Code: Select all
 5 . . | . . . | . . 1
 . . 1 | 4 . 5 | 7 . .
 . . 4 | 2 . 7 | 5 . .
-------+-------+------
 . 4 . | . . . | . 9 .
 . . . | 6 . 9 | . . .
 . 3 . | . . . | . 6 .
-------+-------+------
 . . 6 | 7 . 1 | 9 . .
 . . 7 | 8 . 2 | 3 . .
 8 . . | . . . | . . 5


Rating 3332 (4-way symmetry):
Code: Select all
 . . . | 6 . 2 | . . .
 4 . . | . 9 . | . . 1
 . 5 . | 8 . 4 | . 7 .
-------+-------+------
 . . 3 | . . . | 2 . .
 . 2 1 | . . . | 3 8 .
 . . 7 | . . . | 5 . .
-------+-------+------
 . 7 . | 3 . 9 | . 5 .
 9 . . | . 6 . | . . 4
 . . . | 2 . 7 | . . .


Rating 3004 (4-way symmetry):
Code: Select all
 
 . . . | 5 . 9 | . . .
 . . 8 | . . . | 3 . .
 . 3 . | 7 . 2 | . 6 .
-------+-------+------
 . 1 6 | . 5 . | 9 3 .
 . 9 . | . . . | . 5 .
 . 4 3 | . 2 . | 7 1 .
-------+-------+------
 . 7 . | 4 . 8 | . 2 .
 . . 4 | . . . | 1 . .
 . . . | 2 . 5 | . . .


Rating 2959: (rotational symmetry)
Code: Select all
 . . . | . . 7 | . . .
 . . 6 | . 4 . | 5 . 8
 . . 2 | . . 3 | . 9 .
-------+-------+------
 . 4 . | 1 . . | . . 9
 9 . . | . 2 . | . . 6
 3 . . | . . 9 | . 4 .
-------+-------+------
 . 5 . | 8 . . | 9 . .
 6 . 1 | . 7 . | 8 . .
 . . . | 3 . . | . . .
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Postby tarek » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:33 pm

Fantastic henk,
The first puzzle (#15 now), until now is the one that stands out, difficult with rotational & reflective symmetry.

Keep those coming.

Tarek
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Postby ab » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:56 pm

ravel wrote:With my implementation of triple/x-wings my solver cannot solve Vidar 008 and 009 (??).


008 doesn't need x wings, but pairs triples and hard box/line (maybe it's an x wing)

009 need simple box/line and triples

just to clarify what I call simple box/line is:
if a number appears in only one line in a given box, then it can't appear in that line in another box

hard box line switches box and line in the above.
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Postby ab » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:04 pm

Code: Select all
 
 . . 3 | 6 . 8 | 9 . .
 . . . | 4 . 1 | . 2 .
 9 . . | . 3 . | . . 6
-------+-------+------
 . 8 . | . . . | . 5 9
 . . 5 | . . . | 1 . .
 7 2 . | . . . | . 6 .
-------+-------+------
 4 . . | . 8 . | . . 7
 . 3 . | 9 . 7 | . . .
 . . 2 | 3 . 5 | 8 . .



Code: Select all
 . . 3 | . . . | 5 . .
 . 9 . | 3 . 2 | . 6 .
 8 . . | . 5 . | . . 9
-------+-------+------
 . 8 . | . . . | . 9 .
 . . 1 | . . . | 8 . .
 . 6 . | . . . | . 5 .
-------+-------+------
 7 . . | . 6 . | . . 2
 . 3 . | 7 . 5 | . 4 .
 . . 8 | . . . | 1 . .



Code: Select all
 
 4 . . | . . . | . . .
 . 8 . | 1 . . | 5 . .
 . . . | . 4 2 | . 6 .
-------+-------+------
 . 9 . | . . . | 3 . .
 . . 2 | . 9 . | 6 . .
 . . 3 | . . . | . 5 .
-------+-------+------
 . 1 . | 4 8 . | . . .
 . . 6 | . . 7 | . 9 .
 . . . | . . . | . . 2


three more from me and I'll probably leave it at that. Unless you'll allow me to post one with diagonal symmetry.
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Postby vidarino » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:11 pm

I'd like to throw in two more:

Code: Select all
Puzzle #022 (vidar)
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 8 . | 3 . 5 | . 2 . |
| 3 . . | . . . | . . 5 |
| . 5 . | . . . | . 1 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 7 | . 1 . | 3 . . |
| 2 . . | 5 . 7 | . . 8 |
| . . 6 | . 4 . | 7 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 3 . | . . . | . 6 . |
| 1 . . | . . . | . . 4 |
| . 6 . | 9 . 2 | . 3 . |
+-------+-------+-------+

Puzzle #023 (vidar)
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 5 . | 9 . 4 | . 7 . |
| . . . | . . . | . . . |
| . . 6 | . 1 . | 2 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 5 . 8 | 6 . 1 | 7 . 2 |
| . 7 . | . 3 . | . 5 . |
| 6 . 4 | 5 . 2 | 8 . 3 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 7 | . 2 . | 3 . . |
| . . . | . . . | . . . |
| . 2 . | 3 . 8 | . 4 . |
+-------+-------+-------+


(Edit: and one more, which is easy once you get started...)
Code: Select all
Puzzle #024 (vidar)
+-------+-------+-------+
| 5 . 1 | 8 . 6 | 4 . 2 |
| . . 7 | 1 . 4 | 6 . . |
| . . . | . 2 . | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 4 . . | . . . | . . 3 |
| . 7 6 | . . . | 5 1 . |
| 1 . . | . . . | . . 4 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | . 8 . | . . . |
| . . 9 | 7 . 3 | 8 . . |
| 7 . 8 | 5 . 2 | 9 . 6 |
+-------+-------+-------+


And I'm pretty sure all my puzzles are solvable with only singles, pairs and triples and locked candidates (box/line), and the occasional X-Wing. I'd be happy to provide solver logs.:)

Vidar
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Postby ravel » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:52 pm

ravel wrote:With my implementation of triple/x-wings my solver cannot solve Vidar 008 and 009 (??)

Checked it with susser now - oops. my program missed a hidden triple in vidar 008 and a naked one in vidar 009 (but got the one in ab's puzzle) - no time to search for the bug:(

My favorite now is the henk's second one:)
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Postby Red Ed » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:12 am

This thread's a really good idea -- it's even encouraged me to solve a sudoku by hand for a change. But I created the puzzle by computer to start with of course ...
Code: Select all
......12.
5........
3..45....
...3.15..
..4...2..
..68.9...
....62..9
........6
.48......
Nice thing about this is that it's automorphic: rotation by 90 degrees clockwise simply relabels the digits!:D

Here's another in the same vein; don't know how it plays tho'
Code: Select all
.....7...
.58..1.4.
..1..698.
462......
.........
......193
.869..2..
.3.2..87.
...5.....
... and another ...
Code: Select all
.......8.
98...736.
.7...9...
.51.6....
...8.1...
....9.83.
...6...2.
.952...16
.1.......
Last edited by Red Ed on Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Ruud » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:17 am

These are the updated scores (and all puzzles are indeed valid:) )

Code: Select all
Henk 001             66-1783
Henk 002             66-1694
Henk 003             61-1328
Henk 004             63-1295
Puzzle #019 (ab)     59-1325
Puzzle #020 (ab)     61-945
Puzzle #021 (ab)     67-1412
Puzzle #022 (vidar)  71-2190
Puzzle #023 (vidar)  60-1440
Puzzle #024 (vidar)  57-1098
Puzzle #025 (Red Ed) 66-1130


(corrections done)

Ruud.
Last edited by Ruud on Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby ravel » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:26 am

I dont trust my own program, but susser solved them without fish.
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Postby tarek » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:37 am

Hi Ruud,

I checked the puzzles before adding them......

The puzzles you mention may contain a larger subset or a larger fish......

But all the ones I updated until the time of this post did not NEED that bigger fish or subset.....

It is left to the eye of the beholder......that is the beauty of sudoku:D

Tarek
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Postby Ruud » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:02 am

Hi Tarek,

It was indeed my mistake. The sudokus did contain the fish, but they were not required to solve them.

I checked again with lower fish-settings and they were OK. I will make the necessary corrections.

Ruud.
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Postby tarek » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:14 am

ab, Brilliant puzzles, could you change a bit your second puzzle
Code: Select all
 . . 3 | . . . | 5 . .
 . 9 . | 3 . 2 | . 6 .
 8 . . | . 5 . | . . 9
-------+-------+------
 . 8 . | . . . | . 9 .
 . . 1 | . . . | 8 . .
 . 6 . | . . . | . 5 .
-------+-------+------
 7 . . | . 6 . | . . 2
 . 3 . | 7 . 5 | . 4 .
 . . 8 | . . . | 1 . .
It has an all axes & rotational symmetries but it is too easy for a superior..........
your 3rd entry (now #20) has also diagonal reflective symmetry, nice
Post what you got....I probably will not add them to the list at the moment, but I'll probably add them as a seperate coded box in the header post as the numbers increase

Red Ed, thanx for those 90 degree rotational puzzles, the first 2 are a bit too easy for a superior however the 3rd one can just sneak in......

Vidar, nice reflective symmetries now, .... try a couple of all axes symmetries:) , as puzzles are checked the number on the updated list may differ from the one you post.

Tarek
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