The SUPERIOR thread

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Postby tarek » Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:57 pm

These 2 should provide some good variety:
Code: Select all
 . . . | . . . | . . . 
 . 2 . | 8 . 7 | . 6 . 
 6 4 . | 3 . 1 | . . 8 
-------+-------+------
 1 . . | 9 . 8 | . . 7 
 . . . | . 7 . | . . . 
 3 . . | 6 . 5 | . . 4 
-------+-------+------
 7 . . | 1 . 6 | . 8 3 
 . 9 . | 5 . 2 | . 7 . 
 . . . | . . . | . . . 

 . . . | . . . | . . . 
 . 2 . | 8 . 7 | . 6 . 
 6 4 . | 3 . 1 | . 9 8 
-------+-------+------
 1 . . | 9 . 8 | . . 7 
 . . . | . 7 . | . . . 
 8 . . | 6 . 5 | . . 4 
-------+-------+------
 7 5 . | 1 . 6 | . 8 3 
 . 9 . | 5 . 2 | . 7 . 
 . . . | . . . | . . . 


the last 3 of your puzzles Vidar have an all symmetry pattern & demonstrate variability, the last one especially stands out. all should go on the list


With these last 2, the updated list at the first post in this thread stands at 61 superiors

Tarek
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Postby Ruud » Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:20 pm

Did somebody say it was "Round Sudoku Day"?

I had a little target practice on this one:

Code: Select all
. . 6|. 9 .|3 . .
. 5 .|. . .|. 6 .
2 . .|5 . 1|. . 9
-----+-----+-----
. . 9|. . .|2 . .
7 . .|. 5 .|. . 6
. . 3|. . .|4 . .
-----+-----+-----
6 . .|7 . 3|. . 1
. 8 .|. . .|. 3 .
. . 4|. 8 .|6 . .


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Postby ab » Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:07 am

Looking at your ratings of the superior puzzles, Tarek, I decided to analyse the top 12 (guess why!)

puzzle 31 by Henk is a great puzzle. You can solve it with 3 hidden triples, 3 x-wings and a locked candidate
or 4 x-wings, 2 hidden triples and 3 hidden pairs.

puzzle 50 by gsf is cracked with 3 x-wings and a naked pair.

puzzle 13 by Henk is another beaut. it needs 2 hidden triples, 3 x-wings and 4 locked candidates.

puzzle 43 by vidarino needs 1 x-wing and 1 hidden triple.

puzzle 33 by vidarino falls to 4 x-wings, 1 hidden pair and a naked pair (I'm not sure if that's necessary!)

puzzle 38 by me falls to 2 x-wings. I fear this puzzle is above its station.

puzzle 7 by gsf falls to 2 x-wings and a naked pair. (surely better than puzzle 38?)

puzzle 48 by gsf falls to 2 x-wings

puzzle 32 by Henk holds out to 4 x-wings (there are 5) a hidden pair and 3 locked candidates. (in my book that beats at least the 4 previous puzzles. How does Henk do it?)

puzzle 51 by Ruud falls to 2 x-wings and 3 naked triples (it may only need 2 of them). Again a great puzzle

puzzle 7 by vidarino needs 1 hidden triple, 2 hidden pairs, 1 naked pair and 4 locked candidates.

puzzle 5 by me needs a hidden triple, a hidden pair, and 4 (or maybe 6) locked candidates.

I'd like to see an updated list of ratings from Ruud. And anyone else who has opinions on these matters.
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Postby tarek » Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:18 pm

ab wrote:puzzle 38 by me falls to 2 x-wings. I fear this puzzle is above its station.

I can understand spotting x-wings prior to triples, but spotting them prior to doubles is strange, you can identify a naked double by just looking at two cells, the x-wing you need to look at 4 (at least).

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Postby tarek » Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:24 pm

I'm adjusting the rankings to accommodate the x-wing avid crowd:D , this should be the fairest & most representative ranking hopefully:

Code: Select all
Difficulty Rankings:

1    Puzzle#031 (henk)
2    Puzzle#050 (gsf)
3    Puzzle#061 (tarek)
4    Puzzle#060 (tarek)
5    Puzzle#013 (henk)
6    Puzzle#058 (vidarino)
7    Puzzle#033 (vidarino)
8    Puzzle#049 (gsf)
9    Puzzle#043 (vidarino)
10   Puzzle#032 (henk)
11   Puzzle#057 (vidarino)
12   Puzzle#048 (gsf)
13   Puzzle#038 (ab)
14   Puzzle#051 (Ruud)
15   Puzzle#007 (vidarino)
16   Puzzle#010 (Ruud)
17   Puzzle#009 (Ruud)
18   Puzzle#029 (vidarino)
19   Puzzle#040 (ab)
20   Puzzle#005 (ab)
21   Puzzle#039 (Ruud)
22   Puzzle#055 (Ruud)
23   Puzzle#044 (vidarino)
24   Puzzle#027 (henk)
25   Puzzle#016 (henk)
26   Puzzle#017 (ab)
27   Puzzle#026 (henk)
28   Puzzle#037 (Ocean)
29   Puzzle#003 (tarek/ab)
30   Puzzle#054 (Ruud)
31   Puzzle#034 (vidarino)
32   Puzzle#062 (Ruud)
33   Puzzle#041 (vidarino)
34   Puzzle#011 (gsf)
35   Puzzle#008 (vidarino)
36   Puzzle#018 (ab)
37   Puzzle#024 (Mage)
38   Puzzle#035 (tarek)
39   Puzzle#028 (henk)
40   Puzzle#014 (henk)
41   Puzzle#056 (vidarino)
42   Puzzle#052 (vidarino)
43   Puzzle#025 (ab)
44   Puzzle#053 (henk)
45   Puzzle#042 (vidarino)
46   Puzzle#015 (henk)
47   Puzzle#020 (vidarino)
48   Puzzle#047 (vidarino)
49   Puzzle#046 (vidarino)
50   Puzzle#045 (vidarino)
51   Puzzle#059 (henk)
52   Puzzle#023 (Ruud)
53   Puzzle#001 (tarek)
54   Puzzle#036 (Ruud)
55   Puzzle#002 (Ruud)
56   Puzzle#022 (Ruud)
57   Puzzle#021 (Ruud)
58   Puzzle#006 (vidarino)
59   Puzzle#030 (vidarino)
60   Puzzle#019 (vidarino)
61   Puzzle#012 (gsf)
62   Puzzle#004 (ab/tarek)

Code: Select all
Variability/Variety Rankings:

1    Puzzle#031 (henk)
2    Puzzle#061 (tarek)
3    Puzzle#050 (gsf)
4    Puzzle#060 (tarek)
5    Puzzle#007 (vidarino)
6    Puzzle#010 (Ruud)
7    Puzzle#013 (henk)
8    Puzzle#058 (vidarino)
9    Puzzle#033 (vidarino)
10   Puzzle#049 (gsf)
11   Puzzle#009 (Ruud)
12   Puzzle#029 (vidarino)
13   Puzzle#040 (ab)
14   Puzzle#036 (Ruud)
15   Puzzle#043 (vidarino)
16   Puzzle#032 (henk)
17   Puzzle#057 (vidarino)
18   Puzzle#048 (gsf)
19   Puzzle#038 (ab)
20   Puzzle#051 (Ruud)
21   Puzzle#005 (ab)
22   Puzzle#039 (Ruud)
23   Puzzle#055 (Ruud)
24   Puzzle#044 (vidarino)
25   Puzzle#027 (henk)
26   Puzzle#016 (henk)
27   Puzzle#017 (ab)
28   Puzzle#026 (henk)
29   Puzzle#037 (Ocean)
30   Puzzle#003 (tarek/ab)
31   Puzzle#054 (Ruud)
32   Puzzle#034 (vidarino)
33   Puzzle#062 (Ruud)
34   Puzzle#041 (vidarino)
35   Puzzle#011 (gsf)
36   Puzzle#008 (vidarino)
37   Puzzle#018 (ab)
38   Puzzle#024 (Mage)
39   Puzzle#035 (tarek)
40   Puzzle#002 (Ruud)
41   Puzzle#022 (Ruud)
42   Puzzle#021 (Ruud)
43   Puzzle#028 (henk)
44   Puzzle#014 (henk)
45   Puzzle#056 (vidarino)
46   Puzzle#052 (vidarino)
47   Puzzle#025 (ab)
48   Puzzle#053 (henk)
49   Puzzle#042 (vidarino)
50   Puzzle#015 (henk)
51   Puzzle#020 (vidarino)
52   Puzzle#047 (vidarino)
53   Puzzle#046 (vidarino)
54   Puzzle#045 (vidarino)
55   Puzzle#059 (henk)
56   Puzzle#023 (Ruud)
57   Puzzle#001 (tarek)
58   Puzzle#006 (vidarino)
59   Puzzle#030 (vidarino)
60   Puzzle#019 (vidarino)
61   Puzzle#012 (gsf)
62   Puzzle#004 (ab/tarek)

Code: Select all
X-Wing challenge:

1   Puzzle#050 (gsf)
2   Puzzle#031 (henk)
3   Puzzle#058 (vidarino)

Code: Select all
Triples challenge:

1   Puzzle#013 (henk)
2   Puzzle#043 (vidarino)
3   Puzzle#007 (vidarino)


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Postby tarek » Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:44 pm

The next Superior focus should be the hidden triple (Hidden triple should be NEEDED to solve).....

You have been focusing on the x-wing....Now change the settings on your generators & give hidden triples maximum weighiting.

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Postby ab » Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:38 am

tarek wrote:I can understand spotting x-wings prior to triples, but spotting them prior to doubles is strange, you can identify a naked double by just looking at two cells, the x-wing you need to look at 4 (at least).

Tarek


Fair point. I must admit I am analysing these puzzles using my solver, which obviously doesn't have a problem spotting x-wings or triples, but probably has to make more computations to do so. I was trying to see what techniques could crack each puzzle and my puzzle does fall to 2 x-wings. I must admit you will probably spot the pairs first and then you still need both x-wings, but they're easier to spot once you've dealt with the pairs.

I appreciate you posting your rankings, because you've obviously done a lot of work trying to rate puzzles. I can only rate them by the techniques they fall to, I haven't worked out an objective formula for rating puzzles.
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Postby ab » Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:37 am

This puzzle can be solved with hidden triples and locked candidates, or x-wings, pairs and locked candidates, so it might come high on your variety rating Tarek.
Code: Select all
.3.|...|.4.
6..|...|..3
..7|.2.|9..
-----------
...|3.8|...
..9|...|7..
...|5.6|...
-----------
..2|.1.|4..
5..|...|..6
.9.|...|.7.


It also has nice symmetry.

here's another one, it needs an x-wing, pairs and locked candidates:
Code: Select all
7..|.6.|..4
...|...|...
..9|3.8|2..
-----------
..7|1..|9..
4..|...|..8
..3|..9|5..
-----------
..1|9.3|8..
...|...|...
6..|.7.|..9


Not sure if this one requires 3 pairs, but it cartainly has pairs and locked candidates galore:
Code: Select all
9..|...|..2
...|...|...
..4|18.|7..
-----------
...|3.5|8..
..1|...|3..
..2|6.9|...
-----------
..8|.73|2..
...|...|...
5..|...|..6
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Postby tarek » Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:42 pm

Hi ab,

First puzzle: All symmetrical, I wouldn't say it demonstrates variety, The variety & difficulty are based on techniques NEEDED to solve that are present whatever the method is. It neds definitely a naked double....The hidden doubles have a naked triple counterpart. a hidden triple is NOT required to solve. however the number of doubles, should make it sneak through.....

Second puzle is a beauty, needs an x-wing & has a hidden double with naked quad counterpart, Superior no doubt.

The 3rd puzzle, fails on consistancy, & can only demonstrate a hidden double with a triple counterpart (It is not on the same level as your previous two), as we passed the 60 mark, this puzzle probably should not join the 2 above, similar lack of consistancy was there also in Puzzle #002 (that is why it is at the bottom of the list).

Tarek

The updated list at the start of the thread now satnds at 64 superiors.

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Postby henk » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:41 pm

This one is nice too. Its not very hard and you do not need a lot of x-wings, but you need a hidden triple and a naked triple.

Code: Select all
 6 4 . | . 9 . | . 7 8
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 . . 3 | 8 . 5 | 2 . .
-------+-------+------
 . 2 . | 5 . 6 | . 9 .
 9 . . | . . . | . . 3
 . 3 . | 2 . 9 | . 4 .
-------+-------+------
 . . 8 | 6 . 3 | 1 . .
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 4 5 . | . 7 . | . 3 2
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Postby tarek » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:03 am

Nice one henk, I actually in one step could spot 6 x-wings (although probably only 2 were needed).......

Having said that, There are no doubles or triples needed to solve...

So although a great puzzle which will go on the list, similar to one of vidarino's puzzles, will not feature highly in the rankings.

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Postby vidarino » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:25 am

Triples ahoy.:)

Code: Select all
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 3 | . 9 . | 1 . . |
| . . . | . . . | . . . |
| 9 . . | 2 . 7 | . . 4 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 5 . 4 | 1 . 2 | 6 . 9 |
| 7 . . | . . . | . . 2 |
| 2 . 6 | 9 . 3 | 4 . 7 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 1 . . | 4 . 6 | . . 5 |
| . . . | . . . | . . . |
| . . 9 | . 1 . | 8 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+

+-------+-------+-------+
| . 8 . | . . . | . . 3 |
| . . . | 3 1 . | . . . |
| . 4 . | . . 5 | . 1 9 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 5 1 | 7 . . | . . 4 |
| . . 2 | . . . | 6 . . |
| 7 . . | . . 6 | 1 9 . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 9 2 . | 8 . . | . 5 . |
| . . . | . 2 3 | . . . |
| 5 . . | . . . | . 4 . |
+-------+-------+-------+


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Postby tarek » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:58 am

Hi Vidar,

the firsy puzle is a beauty, & will feature prominantly in the rankings....

the second is a miss:( , the x-wing is so powerful, that it kills any other triples.............. as you've passed the 15 mark & totally we've passed the 60 mark, this shouldn't be on the list.

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Postby ab » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:09 pm

tarek wrote:Nice one henk, I actually in one step could spot 6 x-wings (although probably only 2 were needed).......

Having said that, There are no doubles or triples needed to solve...

Tarek


there are if you remove R1C1 and R9C9:
Code: Select all
 . 4 . | . 9 . | . 7 8
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 . . 3 | 8 . 5 | 2 . .
-------+-------+------
 . 2 . | 5 . 6 | . 9 .
 9 . . | . . . | . . 3
 . 3 . | 2 . 9 | . 4 .
-------+-------+------
 . . 8 | 6 . 3 | 1 . .
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 4 5 . | . 7 . | . 3 .


I can make an improvement on Vidarino's latest qualifying offering too:

Code: Select all
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 3 | . 9 . | 1 . . |
| . . . | . . . | . . . |
| 9 . . | 2 . 7 | . . 4 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 5 . . | 1 . 2 | 6 . 9 |
| 7 . . | . . . | . . 2 |
| 2 . 6 | 9 . 3 | . . 7 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 1 . . | 4 . 6 | . . 5 |
| . . . | . . . | . . . |
| . . 9 | . 1 . | 8 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
Last edited by ab on Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby vidarino » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:24 pm

tarek wrote:the second is a miss:( , the x-wing is so powerful, that it kills any other triples.............. as you've passed the 15 mark & totally we've passed the 60 mark, this shouldn't be on the list.


Hmm, my solver finds two naked triples and one hidden in the second one. The X-Wing (in 2s) is the last thing on the menu and pretty much solves the rest.

Oh well, no worries, as you said, I'm well over my mark anyway. Glad the first one worked out.:)
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