The SUPERIOR thread

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Postby Red Ed » Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:02 pm

tarek wrote:I've been away for a couple of days, I was hoping that I would have hundreds of puzzles to siv through, but apparantly not.....:(
Here's a quarter-turn-automorphic sum-to-10 that needs a hidden quad to solve ...
Code: Select all
 . . . . . . . 1 .
 2 1 . . . 3 4 8 .
 . 3 9 8 . . 2 . .
 . 6 . 3 . 4 9 . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 . . 1 6 . 7 . 4 .
 . . 8 . . 2 1 7 .
 . 2 6 7 . . . 9 8
 . 9 . . . . . . .
Sadly I am forced to break my tradition of minimal puzzles in this case.

ImageEd.
Red Ed
 
Posts: 633
Joined: 06 June 2005

Postby tarek » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:01 pm

Red Ed,

It is an impressive puzzle, I'm sure that the next thread would feature this puzzle, however for a superior...the hidden quad is just over the top...the maximum is the hidden triple:(

tarek
User avatar
tarek
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: 05 January 2006

Postby Red Ed » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:14 pm

tarek wrote:the hidden quad is just over the top
Oh, here's me thinking you were inviting quads and fish into the remainder of the thread. Not to worry.
Red Ed
 
Posts: 633
Joined: 06 June 2005

Postby ab » Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:06 pm

I had a little play with some more of Ocean's puzzles. I made a quite different version of puzzle #99 and improved the rating of #96 (I think). Also removed some clues from #97 and #99. I think Ocean posted those puzzles because they have full symmetry, so he might not be soo happy with my tinkering, except maybe my different version of puzzle #99, which is the first of these:

Code: Select all
ocean puzzle #99 revamp
 . . 6 | . . . | 8 . . 
 . . . | 1 . 8 | . . . 
 5 . . | . 3 . | . . 9 
-------+-------+------
 . 3 . | 9 . 5 | . 7 . 
 . . 1 | . 6 . | 2 . . 
 . 5 . | 7 . 2 | . 3 . 
-------+-------+------
 1 . . | . 9 . | . . 6 
 . . . | 2 . 7 | . . . 
 . . 8 | . . . | 4 . .

ocean puzzle #96 variation
 . . . | . 3 . | . . . 
 . . . | 5 . 8 | 1 . . 
 . 1 . | 6 . 7 | 5 2 . 
-------+-------+------
 . 9 5 | . . . | 3 1 . 
 4 . . | . . . | . . 5 
 . 7 3 | . . . | 6 4 . 
-------+-------+------
 . 5 4 | 7 . 1 | . 8 . 
 . . 8 | 9 . 2 | . . . 
 . . . | . 8 . | . . . 

ocean puzzle #97 variation
 . . . | . . 2 | . . . 
 . . 3 | . 1 . | 6 . . 
 . 8 . | 5 . 7 | . 9 . 
-------+-------+------
 6 . 2 | . . . | 1 . 5 
 . 4 . | . . . | . 3 . 
 3 . 1 | . . . | 4 . 2 
-------+-------+------
 . 3 . | 7 . 5 | . 4 . 
 . . 9 | . 3 . | 7 . . 
 . . . | 1 . . | . . .

ocean puzzle #99 variation
 . . 4 | . . . | 8 . . 
 . . . | 1 . 8 | . . . 
 5 . . | . 3 . | . . 9 
-------+-------+------
 . 3 . | . 4 5 | . 7 . 
 . . 1 | 8 . 3 | 2 . . 
 . 5 . | 7 1 . | . 3 . 
-------+-------+------
 1 . . | . 9 . | . . 6 
 . . . | 2 . 7 | . . . 
 . . 8 | . . . | 4 . .

ab
 
Posts: 451
Joined: 06 September 2005

Postby ab » Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:51 pm

just to show my own generator can occasionally come up with the goods. This one should just scrape in, scoring 4 I think:
Code: Select all
...|..3|8.4
9..|...|..1
.4.|52.|.79
-----------
...|73.|...
.1.|.4.|.9.
...|.56|...
-----------
57.|.12|.3.
4..|...|..5
6.3|8..|...


*edit* on second thoughts it doesn't quite make the grade. It can be solved with a naked pair and a naked triple instead of a naked pair and an x wing. Does ok on variety though:)
Last edited by ab on Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
ab
 
Posts: 451
Joined: 06 September 2005

Postby Ruud » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:04 am

It this a beauty?

erm... no:( Quite ugly, to be honest.

Code: Select all
. 4 9|. . 8|6 . 5
. . 3|. . 7|. . .
. . .|. . .|. 3 .
-----+-----+-----
. . .|4 . .|8 . .
. 6 .|8 1 5|. 2 .
. . 1|. . 9|. . .
-----+-----+-----
. 1 .|. . .|. . .
. . .|6 . .|4 . .
8 . 4|5 . .|3 9 .


But I can spot 3 X-Wings, 2 naked pairs, 2 hidden pairs and 2 hidden triples, so I submit it and see what's left under tarek's scrutiny... I'm aiming at slot # 100:D

Ruud.
Ruud
 
Posts: 664
Joined: 28 October 2005

Postby tarek » Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:02 pm

ab,
the modification of Ocean's #96 is the only improvement it will go to replace Ocean's #77 (closest score).......The rest of the puzzles either were not an improvement or did not achieve the required 4.

Ruud, difficult to score........on consistancy it will not score more than 7, but if each individual possibility is taken then there is a possibility for 2 hidden triples & a maximum score of 21....the lowes score would be around 13.....so a wonderful puzzle, will be a treat to solve, as techniques change depending on what is your most difficult technique...
it will go to 100:D .

Now as the list has finished, I will leave the window open for about 2 days for other members to replace ocean's & vidarino's extras....Ruud, Ocean, & vidarino can't have anymore puzzles on the list....

any member with a puzzle scoring a 4 (one hidden triple or one x-wing & a naked doble or 2 hidden double/naked triple combinations) will replace the extra puzzles in the next 2 days....

following that.... the list will not be updated

Excellent job everybody:D

Tarek
User avatar
tarek
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: 05 January 2006

Postby tarek » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:51 am

Well everybody,
This seals the first Superiors 100 list.....
good effort from everybody.......

Ranking these puzzles was not easy......The ranking that I employed to include puzzles here was based on Consistant variability (if that makes sense:D ), meaning that attempts in solving the puzzle in any fashion would still require the same techniques to solve, if a puzzle ranks highly on the list, that means it has more techniques to use.....

as different techniques vary in their difficulty, the scale has been biased towards the hidden triple then to the x wing, then to hidden doubles & naked triples, & finally the naked doubles.

as similar techniques visible in the same step were considered as 1, several puzzles have been harshly scored, so different rankings from diffrent programs can give you a more general impression about the difficulty of the puzzles....

here are the final rankings:
Code: Select all
001  Puzzle#074 (vidarino)
002  Puzzle#090 (vidarino)
003  Puzzle#075 (vidarino)
004  Puzzle#067 (vidarino/ab)
005  Puzzle#097 (Ocean)
006  Puzzle#031 (henk)
007  Puzzle#066 (vidarino)
008  Puzzle#021 (Ruud)
009  Puzzle#083 (Ocean)
010  Puzzle#050 (gsf)
011  Puzzle#007 (vidarino)
012  Puzzle#077 (Ocean/ab)
013  Puzzle#098 (Ocean)
014  Puzzle#013 (henk)
015  Puzzle#099 (Ocean)
016  Puzzle#095 (Ocean)
017  Puzzle#093 (Ocean)
018  Puzzle#005 (ab)
019  Puzzle#091 (Ocean)
020  Puzzle#085 (Ocean/ab)
021  Puzzle#094 (Ocean)
022  Puzzle#008 (vidarino)
023  Puzzle#078 (Ocean)
024  Puzzle#089 (Vidarino)
025  Puzzle#076 (tarek)
026  Puzzle#088 (Vidarino)
027  Puzzle#096 (Ocean)
028  Puzzle#092 (Ocean)
029  Puzzle#082 (Ocean)
030  Puzzle#043 (vidarino)
031  Puzzle#020 (Ocean)
032  Puzzle#073 (Ruud)
033  Puzzle#061 (tarek)
034  Puzzle#058 (vidarino)
035  Puzzle#045 (Red Ed)
036  Puzzle#070 (Red Ed)
037  Puzzle#100 (Ruud)
038  Puzzle#010 (Ruud)
039  Puzzle#060 (tarek)
040  Puzzle#047 (Ocean)
041  Puzzle#033 (vidarino)
042  Puzzle#080 (Ocean)
043  Puzzle#087 (Ocean)
044  Puzzle#049 (gsf)
045  Puzzle#086 (ab)
046  Puzzle#032 (henk)
047  Puzzle#057 (vidarino)
048  Puzzle#079 (Ocean)
049  Puzzle#081 (Ocean)
050  Puzzle#048 (gsf)
051  Puzzle#038 (ab)
052  Puzzle#084 (JPF/tarek)
053  Puzzle#009 (Ruud)
054  Puzzle#063 (ab)
055  Puzzle#029 (vidarino)
056  Puzzle#019 (vidarino)
057  Puzzle#035 (tarek)
058  Puzzle#040 (ab)
059  Puzzle#039 (Ruud)
060  Puzzle#051 (Ruud)
061  Puzzle#055 (Ruud)
062  Puzzle#064 (ab)
063  Puzzle#044 (vidarino)
064  Puzzle#071 (Ruud)
065  Puzzle#068 (Red Ed)
066  Puzzle#027 (henk)
067  Puzzle#016 (henk)
068  Puzzle#017 (ab)
069  Puzzle#072 (Ruud)
070  Puzzle#026 (henk)
071  Puzzle#037 (JPF/tarek)
072  Puzzle#004 (ab/tarek)
073  Puzzle#003 (tarek/ab)
074  Puzzle#054 (Ruud)
075  Puzzle#034 (vidarino)
076  Puzzle#041 (tarek)
077  Puzzle#062 (Ruud)
078  Puzzle#018 (ab)
079  Puzzle#011 (gsf)
080  Puzzle#046 (ab)
081  Puzzle#036 (Ruud)
082  Puzzle#002 (Ruud)
083  Puzzle#024 (Mage)
084  Puzzle#022 (Ruud)
085  Puzzle#006 (vidarino)
086  Puzzle#030 (vidarino)
087  Puzzle#012 (gsf)
088  Puzzle#069 (Red Ed)
089  Puzzle#028 (henk)
090  Puzzle#014 (henk)
091  Puzzle#065 (henk)
092  Puzzle#056 (vidarino)
093  Puzzle#052 (vidarino)
094  Puzzle#025 (henk/ab)
095  Puzzle#053 (henk)
096  Puzzle#042 (vidarino)
097  Puzzle#015 (henk)
098  Puzzle#059 (henk)
099  Puzzle#023 (Ruud)
100  Puzzle#001 (tarek)


tarek
User avatar
tarek
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: 05 January 2006

Postby gsf » Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:35 pm

could you add the final ranking formula to the sticky post?
thanks
gsf
2014 Supporter
 
Posts: 7306
Joined: 21 September 2005
Location: NJ USA

Postby tarek » Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:48 pm

I will add is to the final rankings post & the top post....

it goes as follows:
Code: Select all
Tarek's ranking Formula:
1. [u]ALL[/u] eliminations that can be possibly achieved by a certain technique from the same grid of candidates will count as one technique only.
2. Hidden Triple*6+XWing*3+Naked triple*2+Hidden double*2+Naked double is the general formula.
3. if all is equal then the number of different techniques would take place.
4. if still all is equal...then the old fashioned difficulty level will take place


tarek
User avatar
tarek
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: 05 January 2006

Postby ronk » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:56 pm

tarek wrote:2. Hidden Triple*6+XWing*3+Naked triple*2+Hidden double*2+Naked double is the general formula.

Interesting thread, tarek. I presume singles and line/box interactions were also used with no effect on scoring, but what was the hierarchy of techniques?

I've put all 100 puzzles in a file with the following format:
Code: Select all
#Puzzle #001 (tarek)
..........2.8.7.6.64.3.1.921..9.8..7....7....3..6.5..475.1.6.83.9.5.2.7..........
#Puzzle #002 (Ruud)
..57.........93.....7..16.42....8.6.....2.....1.4....55.48..3.....63.........29..
etc., etc.

If a few are interested, I certainly can post it here. I'm willing to email it too.

Ron
ronk
2012 Supporter
 
Posts: 4764
Joined: 02 November 2005
Location: Southeastern USA

Postby gsf » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:14 pm

tarek wrote:
Code: Select all
Tarek's ranking Formula:
1. [u]ALL[/u] eliminations that can be possibly achieved by a certain technique from the same grid of candidates will count as one technique only.
2. Hidden Triple*6+XWing*3+Naked triple*2+Hidden double*2+Naked double is the general formula.
3. if all is equal then the number of different techniques would take place.
4. if still all is equal...then the old fashioned difficulty level will take place


thanks
so others can reproduce your results
could you annotate, post or pm the <2,3,4> values for the 100?
gsf
2014 Supporter
 
Posts: 7306
Joined: 21 September 2005
Location: NJ USA

Postby tarek » Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:14 pm

thanx ron, I think it is a good idea to post all puzzle in the line format, so that a compact, easy to cut & paste collection can be achieved, my only suggestion is to post them with a heading only followed by 100 lines of puzzles.....

gsf, I'm having some problems in converting tabs into spaces...I hope this is meaaningful
Code: Select all
Rank  Puzzle      Compiler  Score Variety
001   Puzzle#074 (vidarino)   15   6
002   Puzzle#090 (vidarino)   13   4
003   Puzzle#075 (vidarino)   13   4
004   Puzzle#067 (vidarino/ab)12   4
005   Puzzle#097 (Ocean)      12   4
006   Puzzle#031 (henk)       11   5
007   Puzzle#066 (vidarino)   11   4
008   Puzzle#021 (Ruud)       11   3
009   Puzzle#083 (Ocean)      11   3
010   Puzzle#050 (gsf)        10   4
011   Puzzle#007 (vidarino)   10   4
012   Puzzle#077 (Ocean/ab)   10   3
013   Puzzle#098 (Ocean)      10   3
014   Puzzle#013 (henk)       10   3
015   Puzzle#099 (Ocean)      10   3
016   Puzzle#095 (Ocean)      10   3
017   Puzzle#093 (Ocean)      10   3
018   Puzzle#005 (ab)         10   3
019   Puzzle#091 (Ocean)      10   3
020   Puzzle#085 (Ocean/ab)   10   3
021   Puzzle#094 (Ocean)       9   6
022   Puzzle#008 (vidarino)    9   5
023   Puzzle#078 (Ocean)       9   4
024   Puzzle#089 (Vidarino)    9   3
025   Puzzle#076 (tarek)       9   3
026   Puzzle#088 (Vidarino)    9   2
027   Puzzle#096 (Ocean)       9   2
028   Puzzle#092 (Ocean)       9   2
029   Puzzle#082 (Ocean)       9   2
030   Puzzle#043 (vidarino)    9   2
031   Puzzle#020 (Ocean)       9   2
032   Puzzle#073 (Ruud)        8   5
033   Puzzle#061 (tarek)       8   5
034   Puzzle#058 (vidarino)    8   3
035   Puzzle#045 (Red Ed)      8   2
036   Puzzle#070 (Red Ed)      8   2
037   Puzzle#100 (Ruud)        7   4
038   Puzzle#010 (Ruud)        7   4
039   Puzzle#060 (tarek)       7   4
040   Puzzle#047 (Ocean)       7   3
041   Puzzle#033 (vidarino)    7   3
042   Puzzle#080 (Ocean)       7   3
043   Puzzle#087 (Ocean)       7   3
044   Puzzle#049 (gsf)         7   3
045   Puzzle#086 (ab)          6   3
046   Puzzle#032 (henk)        6   2
047   Puzzle#057 (vidarino)    6   2
048   Puzzle#079 (Ocean)       6   2
049   Puzzle#081 (Ocean)       6   2
050   Puzzle#048 (gsf)         6   2
051   Puzzle#038 (ab)          6   2
052   Puzzle#084 (JPF/tarek)   5   4
053   Puzzle#009 (Ruud)        5   3
054   Puzzle#063 (ab)          5   3
055   Puzzle#029 (vidarino)    5   3
056   Puzzle#019 (vidarino)    5   3
057   Puzzle#035 (tarek)       5   3
058   Puzzle#040 (ab)          5   3
059   Puzzle#039 (Ruud)        5   2
060   Puzzle#051 (Ruud)        5   2
061   Puzzle#055 (Ruud)        5   2
062   Puzzle#064 (ab)          5   2
063   Puzzle#044 (vidarino)    5   2
064   Puzzle#071 (Ruud)        5   2
065   Puzzle#068 (Red Ed)      4   2
066   Puzzle#027 (henk)        4   2
067   Puzzle#016 (henk)        4   2
068   Puzzle#017 (ab)          4   2
069   Puzzle#072 (Ruud)        4   2
070   Puzzle#026 (henk)        4   2
071   Puzzle#037 (JPF/tarek)   4   2
072   Puzzle#004 (ab/tarek)    4   2
073   Puzzle#003 (tarek/ab)    4   2
074   Puzzle#054 (Ruud)        4   2
075   Puzzle#034 (vidarino)    4   2
076   Puzzle#041 (tarek)       4   2
077   Puzzle#062 (Ruud)        4   2
078   Puzzle#018 (ab)          4   2
079   Puzzle#011 (gsf)         4   2
080   Puzzle#046 (ab)          4   2
081   Puzzle#036 (Ruud)        3   3
082   Puzzle#002 (Ruud)        3   2
083   Puzzle#024 (Mage)        3   2
084   Puzzle#022 (Ruud)        3   2
085   Puzzle#006 (vidarino)    3   2
086   Puzzle#030 (vidarino)    3   2
087   Puzzle#012 (gsf)         3   2
088   Puzzle#069 (Red Ed)      3   1
089   Puzzle#028 (henk)        3   1
090   Puzzle#014 (henk)        3   1
091   Puzzle#065 (henk)        3   1
092   Puzzle#056 (vidarino)    3   1
093   Puzzle#052 (vidarino)    3   1
094   Puzzle#025 (henk/ab)     3   1
095   Puzzle#053 (henk)        3   1
096   Puzzle#042 (vidarino)    3   1
097   Puzzle#015 (henk)        3   1
098   Puzzle#059 (henk)        3   1
099   Puzzle#023 (Ruud)        3   1
100   Puzzle#001 (tarek)       3   1


I would be interested to see how other programs would rank these (forgetting my consistant variability:D )

tarek
User avatar
tarek
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: 05 January 2006

Postby ronk » Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:34 pm

[edit: The puzzle collection in line format is now part of the opening post.]
Last edited by ronk on Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ronk
2012 Supporter
 
Posts: 4764
Joined: 02 November 2005
Location: Southeastern USA

Postby tarek » Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:41 pm

thanx ron, I'll add it to the top post.............

tarek
User avatar
tarek
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: 05 January 2006

PreviousNext

Return to General