The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[Paquita]

And a new batch https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LkEEzEmsNK5sb50bq-GH7PB2423tdhXD/view?usp=sharing

[denis_berthier]

And a new batch https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LkEEzEmsNK5sb50bq-GH7PB2423tdhXD/view?usp=sharing

Hi Paquita,

I've launched the calculations for the BpB ratings (still running). I observe that most of the puzzles (all but 4 in the first 3000) are in B6B.
Have you used the Sudoku Hierarchical Classifier (SHC) as your filter, instead of SER ?

[Paquita]

Denis,

I have never used SHC. I use PGXplainer now to rate after a preliminary test for higher rates with skfr (skfr rates above 11.2). I use previously found puzzles as seed. I don't know why they are almost all in B6B.

[denis_berthier]

Denis,
I have never used SHC. I use PGXplainer now to rate after a preliminary test for higher rates with skfr (skfr rates above 11.2). I use previously found puzzles as seed. I don't know why they are almost all in B6B.

Hi Paquita,
Thanks for your answer.
This is very strange. PGX or SER is the same thing (except in very rare cases). The BpB distribution you get in this batch is completely different from your previous batches. Have you changed any of your filters? Or are your seeds different in any way from your previous seeds?

BTW, you should try SHC, it's orders of magnitude faster than SER or PGX. And it is as easy to use.

[Paquita]

Hi Denis

I will try SHC, thanks for the tip. I have no idea just now why I have these results. I use a few methods to generate new puzzles, one is to change one digit in a puzzle, another is to expand the seeds. That has not changed. The seeds now are the puzzles from my previously published files, before the seeds were mainly the puzzles from mith and hendrik added to the T&E(2) collection. (I have already used most of the ph2010 puzzles as seeds a couple of years ago). I use T&E(2) puzzles as seeds to obtain new t&E(2) puzzles, as the T&E(3) area is well covered by mith and hendrik.

[denis_berthier]

.
Hi Paquita,

Using SHC, the BpB calculations for the whole file of 6769 puzzles took 10 hrs on my Mac M1.

Among the 6769 puzzles (all with SER ≥ 11.4), 5372 have BpB = 6 and 397 BpB = 5. None has BpB = 4 or less.

But the most surprising result is, among the 3853 with SER = 11.7, 3825 (99.3 %) have BpB = 6. This is much higher than any previous T&E(2) collection.

It'd be interesting to understand how this is possible by trying only to maximise the SER, but at this point, I don't.

[denis_berthier]

.
For people involved in the search for the "hardest" puzzles, these comparisons of computation times may be interesting:
http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/pgexplainer-a-minimal-sudokuexplainer-in-56-712-bytes-t39049-52.html
.

[denis_berthier]

.
Paquita's last list of 6769 puzzles is definitely very special for a T&E(2) collection. In addition to its BpB distribution:
- all the puzzles in it have a non-degenerate tridagon;
- only 270 of them are not solved in W8+Trid-OR5W8.

[denis_berthier]

.
Finally, I have some explanation. As it doesn't involve SER but tridagons, I put it in the tridagon thread: http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/the-tridagon-rule-t39859-120.html
.

[Paquita]

Hi

A new batch https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBsPcIRSsMgY_4GUZ-w3is6wPUUKh6yN/view?usp=sharing

I have not checked BpB or tridagons yet. It is a T&E(2) collection.

[Paquita]

And another batch TE(2) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mqlI6A3rosPrkLUk9vgkKxadAs4nC2Si/view?usp=sharing

[mith]

Hoping to get back to this in the next week or two. Busy busy.

Well, this didn't happen for a number of reasons, including that I've had to have surgery for a torn labrum and am in a sling until the end of this month. I'll get to it eventually! (Recovery is going well, back to work and slowly catching up on things in general.)

[eleven]

oops, wish you a good and complete recovery !

[denis_berthier]

yes, best wishes from me too.

[coloin]

Wishing you a good recovery mith
This will save you a job !!!
Ive reprinted a list of the known 11.9 puzzles as things do look cloudy in the posts !
Ive expanded the puzzles to the maximum Pearl rating ie ED=11.9/11.9/x.x
Reducing this to all minimal puzzles is a complete process, some puzzles are therefore new.
I found two probably new twin maxi-epands and their puzzles.

Notably some puzzles are isomorph dependant with SE.
It has been noted previously that there may well be some more 11.9 puzzles lurking within the 11.8 collection

Code: Select all

98.7.....7.....6....6.5.....4...5.3...79..5......2...1..85..9......1...4.....3.2.## ED=11.9/11.9/11.8 22c GP/champagne dry              T&E2   B6B
98.7.....6.....87...7.....5.4..3.5....65...9......2..1..86...5.....1.3.......4..2## ED=11.9/11.9/11.6 23c GP/kz0                        T&E2   B5B
.......39.....1..5..3.5.8....8.9...6.7...2...1..4.......9.8..5..2....6..4..7.....## ED=11.9/11.9/11.3 21c Golden_Nugget                 T&E2   B5B
12..3....4....1.2...52..1..5..4..2......6..7......3..8.5....9....9.7..3......8..6## ED=11.9/11.9/11.3 23c eleven/second flush           T&E2   B5B
12.3.....4.....3....3.5......42..5......8...9.6...5.7...15..2......9..6......7..8## ED=11.9/11.9/9.9  22c eleven/Kolk                   T&E2   B5B
........1....23.45..51..2....25...1..6...27..8...9......42....7.3...6...9...8....## ED=11.9/11.9/9.9  23c dob/12_12_03                  T&E2   B5B
12.3.....4.5...6...7.....2.6..1..3....453.........8..9...45.1.........8......2..7## ED=11.9/11.9/2.6  22c eleven/Patience               T&E2   B6B
5.6...7...1.3.....8...5.9.....1...2.....8.6.7.....2.4.7...9...6.3...42....5......## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2   22c OW/2015_08                    T&E2   B7B
..3..6.8....1..2......7...4..9..8.6..3..4...1.7.2.....3....5.....5...6..98.....5.## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2   22c eleven/Imam_bayildi           T&E2   B5B
..3..6....5.18....6....2...2...6...4......9...7.8...1.....1.89...4.....3.9..7.45.## ED=11.9/11.9/9.9  23c ObiWan/2015_08 expand         T&E2   B7B
..3..6.8....1..2.6....7...4..9..8.6..3..4...1.7.2.....3....5.....5...6..98.....5.## ED=11.9/11.9/9.9  23c eleven/Imam_bayildi expand    T&E2   B5B
                                                                                                                                       
57....9..........8.1.........168..4......28.9..2.9416.....2.....6.9.82.4...41.6..## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2   26c  mith/Loki                    T&E3
57....9..........8.1...9.....168..42...1.28.9..2.9416.....26....6.9.82.4...41.6..## ED=11.9/11.9/3.4  30c  Loki max-expand              T&E3

Code: Select all

Max-expands in minlexgrid solution form                                                                                                                         
......78.4...8.2.686..72.45.9.............52..15.2......6.478.2...26..54...8.567.## ED=11.9/11.9/3.4    Duo1 Paquita/hendrik_monard twin max-expand   T&E3     
......78.4...8.2.686..72.54.9.............52..15.2......6.478.2...26..45...8.567.## ED=11.9/11.9/3.4    Duo2 Paquita/hendrik_monard twin max-expand   T&E3     
1...567.9...1.926.6..27..51...91...5.1.5.792.....62.17.34............5...6.7.....## ED=11.9/11.9/9.3    Penta1                                        T&E2   B5B
1...5678....18..366..3.75.1..183..57...7.18......651.3.......7..42........65.....## ED=11.9/11.9/9.3    Penta2 new twin max-expand                    T&E2   B5B
1.345....45..89....893..4.....5...7151..............6.3.59.4..8.9183....84..15...## ED=11.9/11.9/9.3    Penta3 new twin max-expand                    T&E2   B5B
1.3...78..571...3686.7..1.5....94...6...7...........5.3.8.1.56.51......3.76...8.1## ED=11.9/11.9/9.3    Penta4 new twin max-expand                    T&E2   B5B
..3.5678....18..63...3.75.1...7.38.57..86..3.....15.76...5.1....4........91....5.## ED=11.9/11.9/9.3    Penta5 new twin max-expand                    T&E2   B5B
...4.678....18.2.6....72.14.15...6......41.....9..........68...7..2.48....271.46.## ED=11.9/11.9/3.4    Uno1                                          T&E3     
1.3.56....5718..3.68.7.3....618.53.73.5......87.3....15.6.........5..96.......4..## ED=11.9/11.9/3.4    Trio1                                         T&E2   B6B
.2345....45.7.9.2.7.9.32.4.23........7539.2..9.42......9....4.....9..6.8...57....## ED=11.9/11.9/3.4    Trio2                                         T&E2   B6B
...45...9......2.6..9.7....2.6.1.9.8.18......97......1.62..1.977.1...8.289...761.## ED=11.9/11.9/3.4    Trio3  new twin max-expand                    T&E2   B6B
                                                           
Minimal puzzles                                                                                                                                   
57....9..........8.1.........168..4......28.9..2.9416.....2.....6.9.82.4...41.6..## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Loki01                  26c     TE3       
57....9..........8.1...9.....168..4......28.9..2..416.....2.....6.9.82.4...41.6..## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Loki02                  26c     TE3       
57....9..........8.1.........168..42...1..8.9..2.9416.....2.....6.9.82.4...41.6..## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Loki03                  27c     TE3       
57....9..........8.1...9.....168..42...1..8.9..2..416.....2.....6.9.82.4...41.6..## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Loki04                  27c     TE3       
......78.4...8...686..72.45.9.............52..15.2........478.2....6..54...8.567.## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Duo11                   28c     TE3       
......78.4...8...686..72.45.9.............52..15.2......6.478.2....6..54...8.5.7.## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Duo12                   28c     TE3       
......78.4...8.2.686..7..45.9.............52..15.2........478.2...26..54...8.567.## ED=11.9/2.0/2.0     Duo13                   29c     TE3       
......78.4...8.2.686..7..45.9.............52..15.2......6.478.2...26..54...8.5.7.## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Duo14                   29c     TE3       
......78.4...8...686..72.54.9.............52..15.2........478.2....6..4....8.567.## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Duo21                   27c     TE3       
......78.4...8...686..72.54.9.............52..15.2......6.478.2....6..4....8.5.7.## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Duo22 not in posts      27c     TE3       
......78.4...8.2.686..7..54.9.............52..15.2........478.2...26..4....8.567.## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Duo23 not in posts      28c     TE3       
......78.4...8.2.686..7..54.9.............52..15.2......6.478.2...26..4....8.5.7.## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Duo24                   28c     TE3       
1...567.9.....926.6..27...1...91...5.1.5.792.....62.17.34............5...6.7.....## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Penta11                 29c     TE2   B5B
1...567.9.....926.6..27..51...91.....1.5.792.....62.17.34............5...6.7.....## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Penta12                 29c     TE2   B5B
1....678.....8..366..3.75.1..183..5....7.18......651.3.......7..42........65.....## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Penta21 new to thread   28c     TE2   B5B
1...5678.....8..366..3.75.1..183..5....7.18......6.1.3.......7..42........65.....## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Penta22 new to thread   28c     TE2   B5B
1.3.5....4...89....893..4.....5...7151..............6.3.59.4..8.9.83....84..15...## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Penta31 new to thread   28c     TE2   B5B
1.3.5....45..89....893..4.....5...7151..............6.3..9.4..8.9183....84..15...## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Penta32 new to thread   29c     TE2   B5B
..3...78..571...3686.7..1.5....94...6...7...........5.3.8.1..6.51......3.76...8.1## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Penta41 new to thread   29c     TE2   B5B
..3..678....18..63...3.75.1...7.38.57..86..3.....15..6...5.1....4........91....5.## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Penta51 new to thread   29c     TE2   B5B
...4.678.....8.2......72.14.15...6......41.....9..........68...7..2..8....271.46.## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Uno1                    26c     TE3       
.....678....18.2......72.14.15...6......41.....9..........68...7..2.48....271.46.## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Uno2                    27c     TE3       
1.3.56.....718....68.7.3....618.53.73.5......87.3....15.6.........5..96.......4..## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Trio11                  29c     TE2   B6B
1.3.56.....718..3.68.7.3....618.5..73.5......87.3....15.6.........5..96.......4..## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Trio12                  29c     TE2   B6B
.2345.....5.7.9.2.7.9.3..4.23........7539.2....42......9....4........6.8...57....## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Trio21                  27c     TE2   B6B
.2345.....5.7.9.2.7...3..4.23........7539.2..9.42......9....4........6.8...57....## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Trio22                  27c     TE2   B6B
..345.....5.7.9.2.7.9.32.4.23........7539.2....42......9....4........6.8...57....## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Trio23                  27c     TE2   B6B
..345.....5.7.9.2.7...32.4.23........7539.2..9.42......9....4........6.8...57....## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Trio24                  27c     TE2   B6B
.2345.....5.7.9.2.7.9.3..4.23........7539.2..9.42...........4.....9..6.8...57....## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Trio25                  28c     TE2   B6B
..345.....5.7.9.2.7.9.32.4.23........7539.2..9.42...........4.....9..6.8...57....## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Trio26                  28c     TE2   B6B
...45...9......2.6....7....2.6.1.9.8.18......97......1.62..1.97..1...8.289...76..## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Trio31 new to thread    28c     TE2   B6B
...45..........2.6..9.7....2.6.1.9.8.18......97......1.62..1.97..1...8.289...76..## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Trio32 new to thread    28c     TE2   B6B
...45...9......2.6....7....2.6.1.9.8.18......97......1.62..1.977.....8.289...761.## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Trio33 new to thread    29c     TE2   B6B
...45..........2.6..9.7....2.6.1.9.8.18......97......1.62..1.977.....8.289...761.## ED=11.9/1.2/1.2     Trio34 new to thread    29c     TE2   B6B

I labeled them trivially for reference purposes. If the original poster of the puzzle can pm I can easily update the labelling and alter as required.
Hopefully this is complete for now !