The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **1to9only** » Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:35 am

::: memories :::
319 was 1st time on patterns game. dont think i won that one!

::: similar :::
X....X..X.X..X..X...XX..X....X..X..X.X.....X.X.....X..X....XX...X..X..X...XX....X # 0445 1 2.0/1.5/1.5 - Pat
X....X..X.X..X..X...XX..X....X.....X.X.....X.X.....X..X....XX...X..X..X...XX....X # 0319 1 2.0/1.2/1.2 - Pat ED=10.7/10.7/10.6
X....X..X.X..X..X...XX..X....X.....X.X.....X.X.....X..X....XX......X..X...XX....X # 0332 1 2.0/1.2/1.2 - Pat ED=10.8/10.8/9.4
X....X....X..X..X...XX..X....X..X..X.X.....X.X.....X..X....XX......X..X...XX....X # 0392 1 2.0/1.2/1.2 - Pat ED=10.8/1.2/1.2

by **Hajime** » Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:08 pm

::: comment :::
#319 has 1 cell less than #445 (r4c6).
A. #445 is minimal so with cell r4c6 made empty, will lead to multiple solutions.
B. #319 has always unique solutions.
A and B are essential different, so #319 will not have possible seeds for #445...

Right?

by **JPF** » Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:28 pm

::: comment :::
take a valid puzzle for pattern #319
add r4c6 of its solution: you get a non minimal puzzle for pattern #445
apply vicinity search to that puzzle
among all those new puzzles select the minimal ones.

AFAIK, I don't use that.

JPF

by **m_b_metcalf** » Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:11 am

::: comment :::

JPF wrote:take a valid puzzle for pattern #319
add r4c6 of its solution: you get a non minimal puzzle for pattern #445
apply vicinity search to that puzzle
among all those new puzzles select the minimal ones.

I think this was first described here. It is a poor method when i+j is more than a very few or when the pattern has a low clue count.

Mike

by **g.r.emlin** » Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:15 pm

::: game 0445 idle 2021-12-18+23:15:17-0000 -- with no further entries the game will close at 2021-12-19+02:00:00-0000 :::

Code: Select all: game 0445 2021-12-14+23:00:00-0000 duration 1d00h dealer Pat pages 3344-3351 (open) 5 players _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1.2/1.2/1.2 1to9only 4.6/4.6/3.4 m_b_metcalf 7.4/7.4/7.4 1to9only 9.2/9.2/9.2 m_b_metcalf 1.5/1.5/1.5 1to9only 4.7/4.7/3.6 m_b_metcalf 7.5/7.5/7.5 m_b_metcalf 9.3/9.3/9.3 JPF 1.7/1.5/1.5 m_b_metcalf 5.0/4.5/3.0 1to9only 7.6/7.6/7.6 Hajime 9.4/9.4/9.4 JPF 2.0/2.0/2.0 Hajime 5.2/3.8/2.8 1to9only 7.7/7.7/7.6 1to9only 9.5/9.5/9.5 JPF 2.3/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf 5.6/4.5/3.4 JPF 7.8/7.8/7.8 m_b_metcalf 9.6/9.6/9.6 Hajime 2.5/2.5/2.5 Hajime 5.7/4.5/3.4 JPF 7.9/7.9/7.8 1to9only 9.7/9.7/9.7 JPF 2.6/2.5/2.5 m_b_metcalf 5.9/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf 8.0/8.0/7.2 JPF 9.8/9.8/9.8 Hajime 2.8/2.8/2.8 Hajime 6.2/6.2/6.2 1to9only 8.2/8.2/8.2 1to9only 9.9/9.9/9.9 m_b_metcalf 3.0/3.0/3.0 m_b_metcalf 6.5/6.5/3.4 m_b_metcalf 8.3/8.3/8.3 Hajime 10.0/10.0/10.0 JPF 3.2/3.2/3.2 1to9only 6.6/6.6/6.6 m_b_metcalf 8.4/8.4/8.4 Hajime 10.1/10.1/10.1 JPF 3.4/3.4/3.4 JPF 6.7/6.7/6.7 Hajime 8.5/8.5/8.5 m_b_metcalf 10.2/10.2/10.2 1to9only 3.6/3.6/3.6 1to9only 6.8/6.8/3.4 JPF 8.6/8.6/8.6 JPF 10.3/10.3/10.3 1to9only 3.8/3.8/3.8 Hajime 6.9/6.7/6.7 JPF 8.7/8.7/8.7 1to9only 10.4/10.4/10.4 JPF 4.0/4.0/4.0 1to9only 7.0/7.0/7.0 m_b_metcalf 8.8/8.8/8.8 Hajime 10.5/10.5/10.5 JPF 4.2/4.2/4.2 JPF 7.1/7.1/7.1 Hajime 8.9/8.9/8.9 Hajime 10.6/10.6/10.6 JPF 4.4/4.4/4.4 m_b_metcalf 7.2/7.2/7.2 m_b_metcalf 9.0/9.0/9.0 m_b_metcalf 10.7/10.7/10.0 JPF 4.5/4.5/3.6 m_b_metcalf 7.3/7.3/7.3 m_b_metcalf 9.1/9.1/9.1 m_b_metcalf 10.8/10.8/6.6 JPF _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ open ratings : 4.8 4.9 5.1 5.3 5.4 5.8 6.0 6.1 8.1 10.9-11.8 submitter entries score response notes ----------- ------- ----- -------- ----- Pat 0 0 0 dealer Hajime 13 1162 10m19s diamond*12 m_b_metcalf 21 1855 28m54s rare-1,diamond*13,pearl*4 1to9only 15 2220 29m20s rare-0*2,diamond*9,pearl*2,last-entry=367 JPF 19 3197 6m19s rare-1,diamond*12,pearl*4,highest-rating=709 ----------- ------- ----- ----- 5 68 8434 rare-0*2,rare-1*2,diamond*46,pearl*10

by **Pat** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:38 am

Code: Select all: 1 . . . . 2 . . 3 . 3 . . 5 . . 2 . . . 6 1 . . 7 . . . . 2 . . 4 . . 5 . 5 . . . . . 4 . 8 . . . . . 9 . . 7 . . . . 3 6 . . . 1 . . 9 . . 7 . . . 8 6 . . . . 1 ED=4.8/1.2/1.2

not playing.
can we see some trumps??

by **g.r.emlin** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:40 am

::: game 0445 resume :::

Code: Select all: game 0445 2021-12-14+23:00:00-0000 duration 4d01h dealer Pat pages 3344-3351 (open) 5 players _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1.2/1.2/1.2 1to9only 4.7/4.7/3.6 m_b_metcalf 7.5/7.5/7.5 m_b_metcalf 9.4/9.4/9.4 JPF 1.5/1.5/1.5 1to9only 4.8/1.2/1.2 Pat 7.6/7.6/7.6 Hajime 9.5/9.5/9.5 JPF 1.7/1.5/1.5 m_b_metcalf 5.0/4.5/3.0 1to9only 7.7/7.7/7.6 1to9only 9.6/9.6/9.6 Hajime 2.0/2.0/2.0 Hajime 5.2/3.8/2.8 1to9only 7.8/7.8/7.8 m_b_metcalf 9.7/9.7/9.7 JPF 2.3/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf 5.6/4.5/3.4 JPF 7.9/7.9/7.8 1to9only 9.8/9.8/9.8 Hajime 2.5/2.5/2.5 Hajime 5.7/4.5/3.4 JPF 8.0/8.0/7.2 JPF 9.9/9.9/9.9 m_b_metcalf 2.6/2.5/2.5 m_b_metcalf 5.9/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf 8.2/8.2/8.2 1to9only 10.0/10.0/10.0 JPF 2.8/2.8/2.8 Hajime 6.2/6.2/6.2 1to9only 8.3/8.3/8.3 Hajime 10.1/10.1/10.1 JPF 3.0/3.0/3.0 m_b_metcalf 6.5/6.5/3.4 m_b_metcalf 8.4/8.4/8.4 Hajime 10.2/10.2/10.2 1to9only 3.2/3.2/3.2 1to9only 6.6/6.6/6.6 m_b_metcalf 8.5/8.5/8.5 m_b_metcalf 10.3/10.3/10.3 1to9only 3.4/3.4/3.4 JPF 6.7/6.7/6.7 Hajime 8.6/8.6/8.6 JPF 10.4/10.4/10.4 JPF 3.6/3.6/3.6 1to9only 6.8/6.8/3.4 JPF 8.7/8.7/8.7 1to9only 10.5/10.5/10.5 JPF 3.8/3.8/3.8 Hajime 6.9/6.7/6.7 JPF 8.8/8.8/8.8 Hajime 10.6/10.6/10.6 JPF 4.0/4.0/4.0 1to9only 7.0/7.0/7.0 m_b_metcalf 8.9/8.9/8.9 Hajime 10.7/10.7/10.0 JPF 4.2/4.2/4.2 JPF 7.1/7.1/7.1 Hajime 9.0/9.0/9.0 m_b_metcalf 10.8/10.8/6.6 JPF 4.4/4.4/4.4 m_b_metcalf 7.2/7.2/7.2 m_b_metcalf 9.1/9.1/9.1 m_b_metcalf 4.5/4.5/3.6 m_b_metcalf 7.3/7.3/7.3 m_b_metcalf 9.2/9.2/9.2 m_b_metcalf 4.6/4.6/3.4 m_b_metcalf 7.4/7.4/7.4 1to9only 9.3/9.3/9.3 JPF _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________ open ratings : 4.9 5.1 5.3 5.4 5.8 6.0 6.1 8.1 10.9-11.8 submitter entries score response notes ----------- ------- ----- -------- ----- Pat 1 538 0 last-entry=372,dealer Hajime 13 1162 10m19s diamond*12 1to9only 15 1771 29m20s rare-0*2,diamond*9,pearl*2 m_b_metcalf 21 1855 28m54s rare-1,diamond*13,pearl*4 JPF 19 3197 6m19s rare-1,diamond*12,pearl*4,highest-rating=709 ----------- ------- ----- ----- 5 69 8523 rare-0*2,rare-1*2,diamond*46,pearl*10

by **Hajime** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:55 am

Code: Select all: 9 . . . . 2 . . 4 . 4 . . 5 . . 1 . . . 5 1 . . 6 . . . . 1 . . 5 . . 8 . 5 . . . . . 4 . 8 . . . . . 9 . . 5 . . . . 9 3 . . . 6 . . 8 . . 2 . . . 3 6 . . . . 1 ED=8.1/1.2/1.2

Yes, trump me :lol:

It is all about picking the right next seed, and I did not discover that yet.

by **1to9only** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:12 am

Code: Select all: 4 . . . . 2 . . 3 . 1 . . 7 . . 4 . . . 7 3 . . 9 . . . . 9 . . 3 . . 7 . 5 . . . . . 9 . 6 . . . . . 8 . . 5 . . . . 8 6 . . . 6 . . 1 . . 5 . . . 1 2 . . . . 8 ED=4.9/2.0/2.0

by **JPF** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:35 am

Code: Select all: 1 . . | . . 4 | . . 5 . 5 . | . 7 . | . 9 . . . 9 | 5 . . | 1 . . -------+-------+------- . . 7 | . . 2 | . . 1 . 9 . | . . . | . 2 . 3 . . | . . . | 8 . . -------+-------+------- 4 . . | . . 7 | 2 . . . 6 . | . 3 . | . 5 . . . 3 | 4 . . | . . 6 ED=8.1/7.8/7.6

JPF

by **g.r.emlin** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:41 am

::: rarity :::

Code: Select all: 2021-12-19+09:35:00-0000 8.1/7.8/7.6 JPF rare ED seen once before

by **1to9only** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:44 am

Code: Select all: 4 . . . . 3 . . 9 . 9 . . 5 . . 1 . . . 1 8 . . 7 . . . . 8 . . 7 . . 4 . 4 . . . . . 2 . 1 . . . . . 3 . . 2 . . . . 8 9 . . . 5 . . 2 . . 8 . . . 7 3 . . . . 2 ED=8.1/8.1/3.4

by **Pat** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 4:39 pm

Pat wrote:
442
can suggest the available ratings

442 and 445
similar

by **Hajime** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:36 pm

::: comment :::

Code: Select all: Pattern 442 . . . . X . . X . . . . X . . . . X . . X . . X X . . . X . X . . . . X X . . . . X X . . . . X . X . . X . . . X . X . X . . X . . . . X . . X . X . X . . . X . Pattern 445 . X . . X . . X . . . X X . . X . . . . X . . X . . X . X . . . . . X . X . . . . . X . . X . . . . X X . . . X . . X . . X . . . X X . . . . X

Looks complete different to me ??

by **JPF** » Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:35 pm

::: comment :::
The two patterns or their equivalent have at most 23 clues in common:

Code: Select all: 442 445 +-------+-------+-------+ +-------+-------+-------+ | x . . | . . x | . . x | | x . . | . . x | . . x | | . x . | . x . | . . . | | . x . | . x . | . x . | | . . x | x . . | . . . | | . . x | x . . | x . . | +-------+-------+-------+ +-------+-------+-------+ | . . x | . . x | . . x | | . . x | . . x | . . x | | . x . | x . . | . x . | | . x . | . . . | . x . | | x . . | . x . | x . . | | x . . | . . . | x . . | +-------+-------+-------+ +-------+-------+-------+ | x . . | . . x | x . . | | x . . | . . x | x . . | | . x . | . x . | . x . | | . x . | . x . | . x . | | . . x | x . . | . . x | | . . x | x . . | . . x | +-------+-------+-------+ +-------+-------+-------+

I'm not sure it helps to find the different ratings.

JPF

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445 — 4.8

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