The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[dobrichev]

Nobody stops you to submit puzzles, with or without :::more::: tag, but the idea is players to be able to show the puzzles that they can't play as valid submissions - such are playing several puzzles in a row w/o waiting other players to play in between, and self-trumping. In other words, "more" puzzles are welcome in the direct context of the game scoring and they are assumed "interesting".
I don't know how many free positions exist in the "rarity" register, but rare puzzles don't contribute much to the score and, being nailed to the pattern, intentional production of puzzles having exotic combination of difficulties doesn't make much sense for me.

[champagne]

.......

I guess I'm misinterpreting "interesting properties", although going back to early posts, it certainly appears that the purpose was a collection of puzzles in each pattern.

My understanding was that unplayable puzzles could still be placed into the collection by using the :::more:::

additional answer to what already wrote dobrichev:


The game is based on "serate" ratings, so any "property" refers to the rules included in the serate rating.

Most hand players don't solve puzzles rating more than naked or hidden pairs or Xwings; say rating ED=30 to make it simple. Other puzzles are just to difficult for them.

In that area, Most submissions are diamonds (the first move has the highest rating). With the game rule, you'll usually get only one puzzle per main rating.

The ::: more ::: are puzzles that a player could have submitted in the final status of the game (without the self trumping constraint). Usually, no such puzzle exists in the low ratings.

So yes, interactive game players see many many puzzles (millions) where some of them could be of interest to you, but they just put them in the bin it they already have a diamond for that rating.

Another point comes immediately. In that collection of several millions puzzles, which one would be of interest? The answer is specific to each player

[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0261 idle 2015-11-08+09:00:38-0000 -- with no further entries the game will close at 2015-11-08+12:00:00-0000 :::

Code: Select all

game 0261 2015-10-29+01:00:00-0000 duration 1w02d dealer Pat pages 2050-2058 (open) 5 players
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    1.2/1.2/1.2 m_b_metcalf    4.7/4.7/3.4 Pat            7.6/7.6/7.6 Pat            9.4/9.4/9.4 m_b_metcalf
    1.5/1.5/1.5 m_b_metcalf    4.8/1.2/1.2 Pat            7.7/7.7/7.6 Pat            9.5/9.5/9.5 CSC
    1.7/1.5/1.5 Pat            5.2/3.8/3.8 Pat            7.8/7.8/7.8 m_b_metcalf    9.6/9.6/9.6 Pat
    2.0/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    5.6/4.7/3.4 Pat            7.9/7.9/7.6 Pat            9.7/9.7/9.7 Pat
    2.3/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    5.7/3.8/3.8 m_b_metcalf    8.0/8.0/7.3 Pat            9.8/9.8/9.8 m_b_metcalf
    2.5/2.5/2.5 m_b_metcalf    5.9/1.2/1.2 Pat            8.1/7.8/7.8 champagne      9.9/9.9/9.9 m_b_metcalf
    2.6/2.5/2.5 m_b_metcalf    6.2/4.2/3.4 champagne      8.2/8.2/8.2 Pat         10.0/10.0/10.0 champagne
    2.8/2.8/2.8 m_b_metcalf    6.5/4.0/3.4 champagne      8.3/8.3/8.3 CSC         10.1/10.1/10.1 champagne
    3.0/3.0/3.0 m_b_metcalf    6.6/6.6/6.6 Pat            8.4/8.4/8.4 m_b_metcalf 10.2/10.2/10.2 champagne
    3.2/3.2/3.2 Pat            6.7/6.7/6.7 m_b_metcalf    8.5/8.5/8.5 CSC         10.3/10.3/10.3 champagne
    3.4/3.4/3.4 m_b_metcalf    6.8/6.7/6.7 m_b_metcalf    8.6/8.6/8.6 Pat         10.4/10.4/10.4 champagne
    3.6/3.6/3.6 m_b_metcalf    6.9/6.7/6.7 m_b_metcalf    8.7/8.7/8.7 champagne   10.5/10.5/10.5 champagne
    3.8/3.8/3.8 m_b_metcalf    7.0/7.0/7.0 m_b_metcalf    8.8/8.8/8.8 m_b_metcalf 10.6/10.6/10.6 champagne
    4.0/4.0/4.0 Pat            7.1/7.1/7.1 m_b_metcalf    8.9/8.9/8.9 CSC         10.7/10.7/10.7 champagne
    4.2/4.2/4.2 Pat            7.2/7.2/7.2 m_b_metcalf    9.0/9.0/9.0 m_b_metcalf  10.8/10.8/9.8 champagne
    4.4/4.4/4.4 Pat            7.3/7.3/7.3 CSC            9.1/9.1/9.1 CSC           10.9/1.2/1.2 champagne
    4.5/4.5/3.4 m_b_metcalf    7.4/7.4/7.4 Pat            9.2/9.2/9.2 m_b_metcalf  11.2/11.2/3.4 champagne
    4.6/4.0/4.0 Pat            7.5/7.5/7.5 Pat            9.3/9.3/9.3 m_b_metcalf
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    open ratings : 4.9-5.1 5.4 5.8 6.0 6.1 11.0 11.1 11.3 11.4 11.6-11.8

       submitter  entries  score  response  notes
     -----------  -------  -----  --------  -----
       dobrichev        0      0    19h05m 
             CSC        6    630    35m49s  diamond*6
             Pat       22   2179     1h53m  diamond*12,pearl*4,bad-submission,dealer
     m_b_metcalf       28   2443     1h14m  rare-0,diamond*19,pearl
       champagne       15   3443     7h38m  rare-0,rare-2*2,diamond*9,pearl*2,highest-rating=652,last-entry=383
     -----------  -------  -----            -----
               5       71   8695            rare-0*2,rare-2*2,diamond*46,pearl*7


[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0261 closed (idle for 1d01h) -- preliminary results :::

Code: Select all

game 0261 2015-10-29+01:00:00-0000 duration 1w02d dealer Pat pages 2050-2058 (final) 5 players
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    1.2/1.2/1.2 m_b_metcalf    4.7/4.7/3.4 Pat            7.6/7.6/7.6 Pat            9.4/9.4/9.4 m_b_metcalf
    1.5/1.5/1.5 m_b_metcalf    4.8/1.2/1.2 Pat            7.7/7.7/7.6 Pat            9.5/9.5/9.5 CSC
    1.7/1.5/1.5 Pat            5.2/3.8/3.8 Pat            7.8/7.8/7.8 m_b_metcalf    9.6/9.6/9.6 Pat
    2.0/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    5.6/4.7/3.4 Pat            7.9/7.9/7.6 Pat            9.7/9.7/9.7 Pat
    2.3/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    5.7/3.8/3.8 m_b_metcalf    8.0/8.0/7.3 Pat            9.8/9.8/9.8 m_b_metcalf
    2.5/2.5/2.5 m_b_metcalf    5.9/1.2/1.2 Pat            8.1/7.8/7.8 champagne      9.9/9.9/9.9 m_b_metcalf
    2.6/2.5/2.5 m_b_metcalf    6.2/4.2/3.4 champagne      8.2/8.2/8.2 Pat         10.0/10.0/10.0 champagne
    2.8/2.8/2.8 m_b_metcalf    6.5/4.0/3.4 champagne      8.3/8.3/8.3 CSC         10.1/10.1/10.1 champagne
    3.0/3.0/3.0 m_b_metcalf    6.6/6.6/6.6 Pat            8.4/8.4/8.4 m_b_metcalf 10.2/10.2/10.2 champagne
    3.2/3.2/3.2 Pat            6.7/6.7/6.7 m_b_metcalf    8.5/8.5/8.5 CSC         10.3/10.3/10.3 champagne
    3.4/3.4/3.4 m_b_metcalf    6.8/6.7/6.7 m_b_metcalf    8.6/8.6/8.6 Pat         10.4/10.4/10.4 champagne
    3.6/3.6/3.6 m_b_metcalf    6.9/6.7/6.7 m_b_metcalf    8.7/8.7/8.7 champagne   10.5/10.5/10.5 champagne
    3.8/3.8/3.8 m_b_metcalf    7.0/7.0/7.0 m_b_metcalf    8.8/8.8/8.8 m_b_metcalf 10.6/10.6/10.6 champagne
    4.0/4.0/4.0 Pat            7.1/7.1/7.1 m_b_metcalf    8.9/8.9/8.9 CSC         10.7/10.7/10.7 champagne
    4.2/4.2/4.2 Pat            7.2/7.2/7.2 m_b_metcalf    9.0/9.0/9.0 m_b_metcalf  10.8/10.8/9.8 champagne
    4.4/4.4/4.4 Pat            7.3/7.3/7.3 CSC            9.1/9.1/9.1 CSC           10.9/1.2/1.2 champagne
    4.5/4.5/3.4 m_b_metcalf    7.4/7.4/7.4 Pat            9.2/9.2/9.2 m_b_metcalf  11.2/11.2/3.4 champagne
    4.6/4.0/4.0 Pat            7.5/7.5/7.5 Pat            9.3/9.3/9.3 m_b_metcalf
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    open ratings : 4.9-5.1 5.4 5.8 6.0 6.1 11.0 11.1 11.3 11.4 11.6-11.8

       submitter  entries  score  response  notes
     -----------  -------  -----  --------  -----
       dobrichev        0      0    19h05m 
             CSC        6    630    35m49s  diamond*6
             Pat       22   2179     1h53m  diamond*12,pearl*4,bad-submission,dealer
     m_b_metcalf       28   2443     1h14m  rare-0,diamond*19,pearl
       champagne       15   3443     7h38m  rare-0,rare-2*2,diamond*9,pearl*2,highest-rating=652,last-entry=383
     -----------  -------  -----            -----
               5       71   8695            rare-0*2,rare-2*2,diamond*46,pearl*7


[Pat]

::: more :::

Code: Select all


1..2....3.4..9..5...3...6..7....4.1..9..2.7.....7....4..6.8.1...5.4...9.8....7...   ED=4.6/4.6/3.2



[champagne]

::: more :::

Code: Select all

1..2....3.4..5..6...3...1..7....8.1..5..4.9.....6....8..6.1.5...8.9...3.9....7... ED=4.6/4.6/3.4
1..2....3.2..4..5...6...7..5....8.6..4..6.5.....5....9..1.7.6...7.1...2.8....4... ED=4.9/1.2/1.2
1..2....3.4..5..6...7...2..8....4.5..5..3.1.....1....8..5.1.4...6.7...3.9....8... ED=5.0/1.2/1.2
1..2....3.2..4..1...5...6..4....3.7..8..7.9.....4....1..3.9.7...6.8...9.5....6... ED=5.0/2.0/2.0
1..2....3.2..4..5...3...6..7....2.3..6..5.1.....3....2..4.2.8...5.4...9.9....7... ED=5.1/1.2/1.2
1..2....3.4..1..5...3...6..7....2.8..5..8.2.....7....5..1.7.9...7.8...4.3....1... ED=5.7/4.5/3.4
1..2....3.4..5..6...7...8..6....9.3..8..4.9.....3....5..5.9.7...3.1...4.9....5... ED=5.8/1.2/1.2
1..2....3.2..4..5...6...7..8....2.4..7..5.9.....3....5..4.9.5...1.5...9.6....8... ED=5.8/1.5/1.5
1..2....3.3..4..1...5...6..7....3.4..6..8.9.....9....8..1.9.2...4.1...9.2....8... ED=5.8/2.0/2.0
1..2....3.4..5..6...6...7..5....8.3..9..3.4.....5....8..3.4.9...7.6...1.2....5... ED=5.8/3.0/3.0
1..2....3.4..5..2...2...6..5....6.3..6..7.8.....8....2..7.8.4...3.6...9.9....7... ED=6.0/1.2/1.2
1..2....3.4..5..6...2...7..8....3.9..7..9.6.....5....8..1.2.3...9.7...4.2....1... ED=6.2/2.0/2.0
1..2....3.4..5..6...6...7..5....3.8..7..4.9.....9....6..5.1.8...8.7...9.2....9... ED=6.2/2.5/2.5
1..2....3.4..5..6...3...7..6....7.4..5..4.1.....8....2..7.1.3...3.9...1.9....6... ED=6.2/2.8/2.8
1..2....3.4..5..1...6...7..8....3.5..9..6.4.....9....2..7.4.6...2.8...7.5....9... ED=6.8/6.8/3.4
1..2....3.2..3..4...5...6..7....8.1..9..5.7.....4....8..6.2.5...8.1...6.9....4... ED=6.8/6.8/3.6
1..2....3.4..5..6...7...4..6....8.1..9..7.2.....3....6..4.6.5...3.1...7.8....2... ED=7.9/7.9/7.8
1..2....3.2..4..1...5...2..3....6.7..7..1.6.....8....5..4.6.8...1.7...9.8....9... ED=10.8/10.8/10
1..2....3.3..4..5...6...7..8....5.6..7..6.5.....1....8..4.9.3...9.6...1.5....2... ED=10.8/10.8/10.7
1..2....3.2..4..5...6...2..8....2.4..3..9.5.....7....6..2.7.1...1.3...9.4....8... ED=10.8/10.8/10.8


[dobrichev]

::: more :::

Code: Select all

1..2....3.4..3..5...6...4..7....3.6..8..2.9.....9....2..4.7.1...5.6...9.2....9... ED=6.2/6.2/3.4
1..2....3.4..5..6...7...8..2....1.7..5..7.1.....6....9..8.6.2...6.7...4.9....3... ED=6.9/6.9/3.4


[coloin]

:::comment:::

I was wondering when this existential question would be asked .....

The extent to which this game can be played depends on
the motivation, resources and the dedication of the player

using

Dobrichev's program to generate the Puzzles
Champagne's rating program
finally Sudoku Explainer to confirm the rating. This can all be done on a single PC and I have done it !

Perhaps it would be good if we could lift the mystery of how to play - and open it up

I have enjoyed playing - but time constraints mean i cant

Some people [like me] could be really happy that they can submit a valid entry - never mind win !!!!

Even Mike doesn't win that often !!!

:::comments please:::

C

[dobrichev]

:::comments please:::

who cares?

[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0262 start LIGHTNING at 2015-11-11+21:00:00-0000 :::

Code: Select all

dealer status

candidate patterns (via private message to g.r.emlin)

   1 dobrichev         1 Pat               4 m_b_metcalf      16 champagne        87 g.r.emlin

past patterns

   1 claudiarabia      1 ravel             9 gsf              30 Mauricio         58 tarek
   1 draco             1 wintder          19 TTHsieh          32 m_b_metcalf
   1 Eioru             3 g.r.emlin        21 coloin           33 JPF
   1 pseudocoup        6 ronk             27 champagne        48 Pat


[Pat]

Code: Select all


6..2....8.9..5..7...2...9..8....3.1..1..2.6.....4....7..4.6.1...6.3...9.9....8...   ED=6.2/4.0/4.0



enxio27, would such a puzzle suit you?
please clarify which level of difficulty you like

[Pat]

::: Less :::

Code: Select all


8..7....1.9..5..3...1...9..3....5.1..6..2.4.....6....7..6.1.2...4.5...9.7....4...   ED=8.1/6.7/4.2



would've earned a "rarity" bonus

[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0262 open LIGHTNING 2015-11-11+21:00:08-0000 dealer dobrichev 23 clues diagonal (main) symmetry :::

Code: Select all

. 1 2 . . . . . 3
4 . 5 . . 6 . . .
7 6 8 . . . . . .
. . . 8 . . . 9 .
. . . . 9 . 7 . 2
. 8 . . . 3 . . .
. . . . 7 . 1 . .
. . . 4 . . . 5 .
3 . . . 2 . . . 9  ED=1.5/1.2/1.2

[champagne]

due to the structure of given in band 1 stack 1, the number of valid puzzles for that pattern should not be so big

[m_b_metcalf]

Code: Select all

 . 1 2 . . . . . 3
 4 . 3 . . 5 . . .
 6 7 5 . . . . . .
 . . . 1 . . . 4 .
 . . . . 7 . 8 . 6
 . 2 . . . 9 . . .
 . . . . 4 . 6 . .
 . . . 6 . . . 3 .
 7 . . . 8 . . . 2   ED=7.1/7.1/7.1

And here's the first of them ...