The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **Mathimagics** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:09 pm

.
I have found a 9-clue SudokuWX (WindokuX) puzzle:

Code: Select all: +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | . . . | . 8 . | | . . . | . 7 . | . . . | | . . . | . . . | . 5 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | 3 . . | . . . | | . 6 . | . . . | . . . | | . . . | . . 4 | . 2 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | . . . | . . . | | . . . | . . . | . . 1 | | 7 . . | . . . | . . . | +-------+-------+-------+

I hope that tarek and other pencil-solvers have fun with this one! 8-)

I had thought that, since every 10-clue case found by the morph-walker so far is minimal, that 9-clue puzzles might be rare or non-existent, but these were found by checking morphs of the 10-clue puzzles, eg {-2, +1}. So 8-clue puzzles cannot be ruled out by any stretch!

Here are the first 5 x 9-clue puzzles found:

Hidden Text: Show

by **tarek** » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:19 pm

Mathimagics wrote:.
I have found a 9-clue SudokuWX (WindokuX) puzzle:

Code: Select all
+-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | . . . | . 8 . | | . . . | . 7 . | . . . | | . . . | . . . | . 5 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | 3 . . | . . . | | . 6 . | . . . | . . . | | . . . | . . 4 | . 2 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | . . . | . . . | | . . . | . . . | . . 1 | | 7 . . | . . . | . . . | +-------+-------+-------+

I hope that tarek and other pencil-solvers have fun with this one!

Couldn't advance things here!!! congratulations for these discoveries
tarek

by **Mathimagics** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:45 am

.
Here is our first 11-clue SudokuW (Windoku) puzzle. I have found about 100 so far.

Code: Select all: +-------+-------+-------+ | . 2 . | . . . | . . 9 | | . . . | . . . | . . . | | . . . | . 3 . | . . 1 | +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | . . . | . . . | | 7 . 9 | . . . | . . . | | 5 . . | . . . | . . . | +-------+-------+-------+ | 6 . . | . . . | . . . | | . . . | . . 1 | . 7 . | | . . . | . . . | . 4 . | +-------+-------+-------+

Solution:

Hidden Text: Show

For SudokuWX, I have found over 7000 9-clue puzzles on 3000 ED grids. No sign of existence of 8-clue puzzles, but I have an explicit 8-clue tester (using HSets) running that is testing each 9-clue grid.

by **Mathimagics** » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:24 pm

I stopped looking for 10-clue SudokuWX puzzles when it became apparent there were so many 9-clue puzzles. At that point I had found 30,554 of the 81,571 ED grids (37.4%) had 10-clue puzzles. This raises the interesting question "how many grids do NOT have 10-clue puzzles?". I will return to this question once the 9-clue puzzles have been identified.

For 9-clue puzzles, I have found 9616 grids (11.8%). A rough estimate of the number of grids with 9-clue puzzles is 27000 (33%) based on random sampling, using explicit HS-based grid testing. Only 100 grids were tested so the estimate error is likely to be relatively high.

I have also HS-tested half of the 9616 grids for 8-clue puzzles and none have been found.

The 9-clue search and 8-clue testing is ongoing.

by **Mathimagics** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:28 am

.
I have independent corroboration (twice in fact) of my figure for the number of SudokuW grids:

This was given by "aeb" here, and apparently confirmed by Red Ed.

https://homepages.cwi.nl/~aeb/games/sudoku/nrc.html

6,337,174,388,428,800 = 17,463,553,760 x 9!

by **tarek** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:29 pm

tarek wrote:
Mathimagics wrote:.
I have found a 9-clue SudokuWX (WindokuX) puzzle:

Code: Select all
+-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | . . . | . 8 . | | . . . | . 7 . | . . . | | . . . | . . . | . 5 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | 3 . . | . . . | | . 6 . | . . . | . . . | | . . . | . . 4 | . 2 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | . . . | . . . | | . . . | . . . | . . 1 | | 7 . . | . . . | . . . | +-------+-------+-------+

I hope that tarek and other pencil-solvers have fun with this one!

Couldn't advance things here!!! congratulations for these discoveries
tarek

Sukaku Explainer Difficulty rating: 8.9 (Dynamic Region Forcing Chains) so this is beyond what most can do with P&P

by **tarek** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:34 pm

Mathimagics wrote:.
Here is our first 11-clue SudokuW (Windoku) puzzle. I have found about 100 so far.

Code: Select all
+-------+-------+-------+ | . 2 . | . . . | . . 9 | | . . . | . . . | . . . | | . . . | . 3 . | . . 1 | +-------+-------+-------+ | . . . | . . . | . . . | | 7 . 9 | . . . | . . . | | 5 . . | . . . | . . . | +-------+-------+-------+ | 6 . . | . . . | . . . | | . . . | . . 1 | . 7 . | | . . . | . . . | . 4 . | +-------+-------+-------+

This one certainly can be fun to solve manually
SE Difficulty rating: 4.1 (Two-string Kite)

by **m_b_metcalf** » Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:12 am

I'm bumping this thread because it's become of interest again. At the time it was active I had no code for W. I recently realized that I had some solution grids with symmetry of givens that also fulfilled both the W and X constraints. That's when I started looking for low clue counts (aka reinventing the wheel). Ten such grids are hidden below.

Mike

Hidden Text: Show

by **urhegyi** » Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:40 pm

10 more very extreme windoku-x with the same design:

Code: Select all: .3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....8......615.....3. ED=9.7/1.2/1.2 .3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....8......267.....4. ED=9.6/1.2/1.2 .3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....8......297.....4. ED=9.6/1.2/1.2 .3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....8......915.....3. ED=9.7/1.2/1.2 .3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....9......615.....3. ED=9.7/1.2/1.2 .3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....9......267.....4. ED=9.6/1.2/1.2 .3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....9......287.....4. ED=9.6/1.2/1.2 .3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....9......815.....3. ED=9.7/1.2/1.2 .3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....6......915.....3. ED=9.7/1.2/1.2 .3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....6......287.....4. ED=9.6/1.2/1.2

SiSeSuSo Program seems to create duplicates!

by **Hajime** » Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:48 pm

urhegyi wrote:SiSeSuSo Program seems to create duplicates!

Solved in next version coming soon, also with vicinity search.

by **m_b_metcalf** » Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:31 pm

My best 12 from a longer file of X-windokus. Maybe a vicinity search would get still higher?

Mike

Code: Select all: ...1...2...........3........2...45.......6...................74..8..............8 ED=9.4/1.2/1.2 1..2...........2...3..............45.........3.5..6........785...1............... ED=9.5/4.0/2.9 ....1.......2.34............4...2..15..................67............5.8......... ED=9.6/4.0/2.9 ..1...2.....1...34.......1..5......................6..3...7.........1.....4.8.... ED=9.7/2.9/2.9 ...1.......2..3.........4..5............3..6.........7...68.........7....2....... ED=9.8/4.3/2.9 ..1...2....34.....5...63.....51..................2............6......7....8...9.. ED=9.9/9.9/2.9 <---- A nice pearl 1..2...3......42.5.............1...........................6....6.472.....8...... ED=10.0/2.9/2.9 .1.........21.3.......4..........5..67........2.7........8........4..8........... ED=10.1/1.5/1.5 .1.2.345..63...2..............1....5.7............8......4....................... ED=10.2/2.9/2.9 ...1..2.....2.34.5.........14.......6............7.............8.......6.6....... ED=10.6/1.2/1.2 ....1..2..............3...4......5..........64........17....6.3...6.....8.6...... ED=10.7/1.5/1.5 ............1..2....3............4..5.........6.....7..1.......8....9........7... ED=11.2/1.5/1.5

by **1to9only** » Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:08 pm

FWIW, from an old file of randomly generated X-Windokus:

Code: Select all: ..........1....9.......3.........8..7.1.29.........3........6....4....7.......... 12 ED=10.0/10.0/2.9 ...9.......2....3..4......6....5.7.1..........5.......6.......3.............1.... 12 ED=10.1/10.1/2.9 ....2..9....17.....8.......3..7............1......5.......96...............3..... 12 ED=10.1/10.1/2.9 .............24........6.583..................1................2....1.6....698... 13 ED=10.1/10.1/2.9 ....6....5..9..2........5......1.9.....7......4.......1..63..4................... 13 ED=10.1/10.1/2.9 .....7............8.9....6.31.8.....5..............................36..1...2..6.3 14 ED=10.6/10.6/2.9 ..8.....................74..81.6........5....5..............1....7...9.2.......7. 13 ED=10.6/10.6/2.9 ...................1.6.8...4...1..6.5..7..............3..9.................5..72. 13 ED=10.7/10.7/2.9 ....4.......................3...6.1.........6..9.....8..2.......4..1...3........5 12 ED=10.8/10.8/2.9

SE Ratings are from SudokuMonster's SukakuExplainer.

by **Hajime** » Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:39 pm

All very high ratings: 10+ is rare.
SiSeSuSo still can not produce these.
I have now implemented in a beta version: Vicinity search and no x.y/1.2/1.2 and unique givens per band/stack.
Later some extra info in "interactive games" topic.

by **urhegyi** » Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:57 pm

I figured out today how to rate a batchfile created with SiSeSuSo of windoku-x with sukakuexplainer (1to9only version), but when it gets ratings above 10.1/10.1/2.6 it shows SE 20.0 and aborts.
example here:

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all: .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........172..54. ED=9.8/9.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........192..45. ED=9.4/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........124..85. ED=9.7/9.5/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........126..84. ED=8.9/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........126..58. ED=7.2/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........129..58. ED=7.2/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........129..85. ED=7.2/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........927..45. ED=9.8/9.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........927..81. ED=8.3/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........924..81. ED=9.6/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........924..58. ED=9.5/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........921..45. ED=10.0/9.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........962..41. ED=9.5/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........962..14. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........972..45. ED=10.1/10.1/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........629..54. ED=20.0/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........629..15. ED=20.0/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........629..14. ED=9.6/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........621..45. ED=9.7/9.7/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........627..45. ED=9.8/9.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........627..14. ED=9.5/9.4/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........624..58. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........692..14. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........692..54. ED=9.3/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........692..41. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........672..45. ED=10.1/10.1/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........612..54. ED=10.1/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........279..81. ED=8.3/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........297..45. ED=9.9/9.9/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........269..14. ED=9.5/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........269..41. ED=9.7/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........762..14. ED=10.0/10.0/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........726..81. ED=8.3/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........721..45. ED=9.9/9.9/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........729..81. ED=8.3/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........724..18. ED=20.0/8.3/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........712..45. ED=9.7/9.7/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........271..54. ED=9.6/9.6/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........279..41. ED=9.6/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........241..57. ED=9.6/9.6/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........249..71. ED=9.6/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........412..75. ED=3.4/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........429..71. ED=9.6/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........927..51. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........927..54. ED=9.1/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........924..51. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........924..57. ED=9.1/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........972..85. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........972..51. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........942..51. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........942..85. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........172..54. ED=9.1/2.6/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........142..57. ED=9.1/2.6/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........712..45. ED=3.4/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........729..41. ED=9.6/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........472..15. ED=10.1/10.1/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........472..85. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........472..81. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........462..51. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........427..58. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........426..57. ED=9.6/9.5/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........426..81. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........426..17. ED=9.4/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........426..15. ED=9.6/9.0/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........421..58. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........412..75. ED=7.5/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........712..45. ED=7.5/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........726..15. ED=9.6/9.0/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........726..14. ED=9.4/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........726..81. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........726..54. ED=9.6/9.5/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........721..58. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........724..58. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........762..51. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........742..15. ED=10.1/10.1/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........742..85. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........742..81. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........247..81. ED=7.3/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........247..85. ED=9.4/7.2/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........247..58. ED=9.3/7.2/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........274..85. ED=9.4/7.2/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........274..81. ED=7.3/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........274..58. ED=9.3/7.2/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........217..54. ED=2.9/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........214..57. ED=2.9/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........246..17. ED=9.7/9.7/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........249..15. ED=9.7/9.5/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........276..14. ED=9.7/9.7/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........279..15. ED=9.7/9.5/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........629..57. ED=8.4/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........629..54. ED=8.4/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........627..54. ED=9.4/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........627..45. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........624..75. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........624..57. ED=9.4/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........642..51. ED=9.8/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........672..51. ED=9.8/2.8/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........429..57. ED=9.7/9.5/2.6 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........426..58. ED=20.0/2.5/2.5 .83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........462..15. ED=9.8/2.8/2.6

by **1to9only** » Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:19 pm

urhegyi wrote:I figured out today how to rate a batchfile created with SiSeSuSo of windoku-x with sukakuexplainer (1to9only version), but when it gets ratings above 10.1/10.1/2.6 it shows SE 20.0 and aborts.

The 1to9only version lacks many solving techniques.

You can rate all (or just the 20.0's) using SudokuMonster's version.
The command line options are different for the 2 versions!

The New Sudoku Players' Forum

SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

SudokuWX: 9-clue Puzzles

Re: SudokuWX: 9-clue Puzzles

SudokuW: 11-clue Puzzle

SudokuWX (WindokuX)

SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Re: SudokuWX: 9-clue Puzzles

Re: SudokuW: 11-clue Puzzle

Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)