SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

For fans of Killer Sudoku, Samurai Sudoku and other variants

SudokuWX: 9-clue Puzzles

Postby Mathimagics » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:09 pm

.
I have found a 9-clue SudokuWX (WindokuX) puzzle:

Code: Select all
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | . . . | . . . | . 8 . |
  | . . . | . 7 . | . . . |
  | . . . | . . . | . 5 . |
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | . . . | 3 . . | . . . |
  | . 6 . | . . . | . . . |
  | . . . | . . 4 | . 2 . |
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | . . . | . . . | . . . |
  | . . . | . . . | . . 1 |
  | 7 . . | . . . | . . . |
  +-------+-------+-------+


I hope that tarek and other pencil-solvers have fun with this one! 8-)

I had thought that, since every 10-clue case found by the morph-walker so far is minimal, that 9-clue puzzles might be rare or non-existent, but these were found by checking morphs of the 10-clue puzzles, eg {-2, +1}. So 8-clue puzzles cannot be ruled out by any stretch!

Here are the first 5 x 9-clue puzzles found:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
.......8.....7...........5....3......6............4.2..................17........: 123456789456879312897132456942318675368725194571694823685241937234987561719563248
....................8...........7.........4.....5........8...32..........69......: 123456789457298361698371245214687593785139426936542817571864932342915678869723154
.......8.....7...........5....3......6............4.2.........7........1.........: 123456789456879312897132456942318675368725194571694823685241937234987561719563248
..3......4.......2...1...65...2...........9.....................7................: 123456789456789312789132465634298571817564923592317648345621897971845236268973154
..3......4...........1.2.65...2...........9.....................7................: 123456789456789312789132465634298571817564923592317648345621897971845236268973154
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Re: SudokuWX: 9-clue Puzzles

Postby tarek » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:19 pm

Mathimagics wrote:.
I have found a 9-clue SudokuWX (WindokuX) puzzle:

Code: Select all
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | . . . | . . . | . 8 . |
  | . . . | . 7 . | . . . |
  | . . . | . . . | . 5 . |
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | . . . | 3 . . | . . . |
  | . 6 . | . . . | . . . |
  | . . . | . . 4 | . 2 . |
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | . . . | . . . | . . . |
  | . . . | . . . | . . 1 |
  | 7 . . | . . . | . . . |
  +-------+-------+-------+


I hope that tarek and other pencil-solvers have fun with this one! 8-)

Couldn't advance things here!!! congratulations for these discoveries
tarek
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SudokuW: 11-clue Puzzle

Postby Mathimagics » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:45 am

.
Here is our first 11-clue SudokuW (Windoku) puzzle. I have found about 100 so far.

Code: Select all
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | . 2 . | . . . | . . 9 |
  | . . . | . . . | . . . |
  | . . . | . 3 . | . . 1 |
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | . . . | . . . | . . . |
  | 7 . 9 | . . . | . . . |
  | 5 . . | . . . | . . . |
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | 6 . . | . . . | . . . |
  | . . . | . . 1 | . 7 . |
  | . . . | . . . | . 4 . |
  +-------+-------+-------+


Solution:
Hidden Text: Show
[/code]
123456789467198235895237461284375916719682354536914827641723598952841673378569142
[/code]


For SudokuWX, I have found over 7000 9-clue puzzles on 3000 ED grids. No sign of existence of 8-clue puzzles, but I have an explicit 8-clue tester (using HSets) running that is testing each 9-clue grid.
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SudokuWX (WindokuX)

Postby Mathimagics » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:24 pm

I stopped looking for 10-clue SudokuWX puzzles when it became apparent there were so many 9-clue puzzles. At that point I had found 30,554 of the 81,571 ED grids (37.4%) had 10-clue puzzles. This raises the interesting question "how many grids do NOT have 10-clue puzzles?". I will return to this question once the 9-clue puzzles have been identified.

For 9-clue puzzles, I have found 9616 grids (11.8%). A rough estimate of the number of grids with 9-clue puzzles is 27000 (33%) based on random sampling, using explicit HS-based grid testing. Only 100 grids were tested so the estimate error is likely to be relatively high.

I have also HS-tested half of the 9616 grids for 8-clue puzzles and none have been found.

The 9-clue search and 8-clue testing is ongoing.
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SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Postby Mathimagics » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:28 am

.
I have independent corroboration (twice in fact) of my figure for the number of SudokuW grids:

This was given by "aeb" here, and apparently confirmed by Red Ed.

https://homepages.cwi.nl/~aeb/games/sudoku/nrc.html

6,337,174,388,428,800 = 17,463,553,760 x 9!
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Re: SudokuWX: 9-clue Puzzles

Postby tarek » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:29 pm

tarek wrote:
Mathimagics wrote:.
I have found a 9-clue SudokuWX (WindokuX) puzzle:

Code: Select all
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | . . . | . . . | . 8 . |
  | . . . | . 7 . | . . . |
  | . . . | . . . | . 5 . |
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | . . . | 3 . . | . . . |
  | . 6 . | . . . | . . . |
  | . . . | . . 4 | . 2 . |
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | . . . | . . . | . . . |
  | . . . | . . . | . . 1 |
  | 7 . . | . . . | . . . |
  +-------+-------+-------+


I hope that tarek and other pencil-solvers have fun with this one! 8-)

Couldn't advance things here!!! congratulations for these discoveries
tarek

Sukaku Explainer Difficulty rating: 8.9 (Dynamic Region Forcing Chains) so this is beyond what most can do with P&P
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Re: SudokuW: 11-clue Puzzle

Postby tarek » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:34 pm

Mathimagics wrote:.
Here is our first 11-clue SudokuW (Windoku) puzzle. I have found about 100 so far.

Code: Select all
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | . 2 . | . . . | . . 9 |
  | . . . | . . . | . . . |
  | . . . | . 3 . | . . 1 |
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | . . . | . . . | . . . |
  | 7 . 9 | . . . | . . . |
  | 5 . . | . . . | . . . |
  +-------+-------+-------+
  | 6 . . | . . . | . . . |
  | . . . | . . 1 | . 7 . |
  | . . . | . . . | . 4 . |
  +-------+-------+-------+

This one certainly can be fun to solve manually
SE Difficulty rating: 4.1 (Two-string Kite)
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Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Postby m_b_metcalf » Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:12 am

I'm bumping this thread because it's become of interest again. At the time it was active I had no code for W. I recently realized that I had some solution grids with symmetry of givens that also fulfilled both the W and X constraints. That's when I started looking for low clue counts (aka reinventing the wheel). Ten such grids are hidden below.

Mike
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
968257143253419687417683529592831476871546932634972815186725394325194768749368251
917635428852714639643928517461859273529347186738162945396281754174593862285476391
651973428897124536423658197945816273162347859738592641319265784576489312284731965
712864539694735182538219647961587324253941768487326951345198276829673415176452893
468379152591428376723516498376841529952763841184952637215694783637285914849137265
135768492468192735792435168657324981384951627921687354249576813573819246816243579
517692483394178625862345179658724931243961758971583246139457862486239517725816394
842639571597241683613587429268413957479852136351796248186325794724968315935174862
917658243453912687682437519561729438839546172274183956196374825325891764748265391
754829316621345798389671245175493862936258471842716539568934127213567984497182653
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Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Postby urhegyi » Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:40 pm

10 more very extreme windoku-x with the same design:
Code: Select all
.3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....8......615.....3. ED=9.7/1.2/1.2
.3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....8......267.....4. ED=9.6/1.2/1.2
.3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....8......297.....4. ED=9.6/1.2/1.2
.3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....8......915.....3. ED=9.7/1.2/1.2
.3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....9......615.....3. ED=9.7/1.2/1.2
.3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....9......267.....4. ED=9.6/1.2/1.2
.3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....9......287.....4. ED=9.6/1.2/1.2
.3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....9......815.....3. ED=9.7/1.2/1.2
.3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....6......915.....3. ED=9.7/1.2/1.2
.3.....547......2....3.7.................................1.4....6......287.....4. ED=9.6/1.2/1.2

SiSeSuSo Program seems to create duplicates!
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Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Postby Hajime » Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:48 pm

urhegyi wrote:SiSeSuSo Program seems to create duplicates!

Solved in next version coming soon, also with vicinity search.
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Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Postby m_b_metcalf » Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:31 pm

My best 12 from a longer file of X-windokus. Maybe a vicinity search would get still higher?

Mike
Code: Select all
...1...2...........3........2...45.......6...................74..8..............8    ED=9.4/1.2/1.2   
1..2...........2...3..............45.........3.5..6........785...1...............    ED=9.5/4.0/2.9
....1.......2.34............4...2..15..................67............5.8.........    ED=9.6/4.0/2.9   
..1...2.....1...34.......1..5......................6..3...7.........1.....4.8....    ED=9.7/2.9/2.9   
...1.......2..3.........4..5............3..6.........7...68.........7....2.......    ED=9.8/4.3/2.9     
..1...2....34.....5...63.....51..................2............6......7....8...9..    ED=9.9/9.9/2.9     <---- A nice pearl
1..2...3......42.5.............1...........................6....6.472.....8......   ED=10.0/2.9/2.9
.1.........21.3.......4..........5..67........2.7........8........4..8...........   ED=10.1/1.5/1.5
.1.2.345..63...2..............1....5.7............8......4.......................   ED=10.2/2.9/2.9
...1..2.....2.34.5.........14.......6............7.............8.......6.6.......   ED=10.6/1.2/1.2
....1..2..............3...4......5..........64........17....6.3...6.....8.6......   ED=10.7/1.5/1.5
............1..2....3............4..5.........6.....7..1.......8....9........7...   ED=11.2/1.5/1.5
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Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Postby 1to9only » Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:08 pm

FWIW, from an old file of randomly generated X-Windokus:
Code: Select all
..........1....9.......3.........8..7.1.29.........3........6....4....7.......... 12 ED=10.0/10.0/2.9
...9.......2....3..4......6....5.7.1..........5.......6.......3.............1.... 12 ED=10.1/10.1/2.9
....2..9....17.....8.......3..7............1......5.......96...............3..... 12 ED=10.1/10.1/2.9
.............24........6.583..................1................2....1.6....698... 13 ED=10.1/10.1/2.9
....6....5..9..2........5......1.9.....7......4.......1..63..4................... 13 ED=10.1/10.1/2.9
.....7............8.9....6.31.8.....5..............................36..1...2..6.3 14 ED=10.6/10.6/2.9
..8.....................74..81.6........5....5..............1....7...9.2.......7. 13 ED=10.6/10.6/2.9
...................1.6.8...4...1..6.5..7..............3..9.................5..72. 13 ED=10.7/10.7/2.9
....4.......................3...6.1.........6..9.....8..2.......4..1...3........5 12 ED=10.8/10.8/2.9

SE Ratings are from SudokuMonster's SukakuExplainer.
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Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Postby Hajime » Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:39 pm

All very high ratings: 10+ is rare.
SiSeSuSo still can not produce these.
I have now implemented in a beta version: Vicinity search and no x.y/1.2/1.2 and unique givens per band/stack.
Later some extra info in "interactive games" topic.
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Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Postby urhegyi » Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:57 pm

I figured out today how to rate a batchfile created with SiSeSuSo of windoku-x with sukakuexplainer (1to9only version), but when it gets ratings above 10.1/10.1/2.6 it shows SE 20.0 and aborts.
example here:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........172..54. ED=9.8/9.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........192..45. ED=9.4/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........124..85. ED=9.7/9.5/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........126..84. ED=8.9/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........126..58. ED=7.2/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........129..58. ED=7.2/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........129..85. ED=7.2/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........927..45. ED=9.8/9.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........927..81. ED=8.3/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........924..81. ED=9.6/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........924..58. ED=9.5/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........921..45. ED=10.0/9.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........962..41. ED=9.5/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........962..14. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........972..45. ED=10.1/10.1/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........629..54. ED=20.0/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........629..15. ED=20.0/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........629..14. ED=9.6/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........621..45. ED=9.7/9.7/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........627..45. ED=9.8/9.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........627..14. ED=9.5/9.4/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........624..58. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........692..14. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........692..54. ED=9.3/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........692..41. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........672..45. ED=10.1/10.1/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........612..54. ED=10.1/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........279..81. ED=8.3/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........297..45. ED=9.9/9.9/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........269..14. ED=9.5/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........269..41. ED=9.7/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........762..14. ED=10.0/10.0/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........726..81. ED=8.3/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........721..45. ED=9.9/9.9/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........729..81. ED=8.3/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........724..18. ED=20.0/8.3/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........4.........712..45. ED=9.7/9.7/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........271..54. ED=9.6/9.6/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........279..41. ED=9.6/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........241..57. ED=9.6/9.6/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........249..71. ED=9.6/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........412..75. ED=3.4/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........429..71. ED=9.6/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........927..51. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........927..54. ED=9.1/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........924..51. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........924..57. ED=9.1/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........972..85. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........972..51. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........942..51. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........942..85. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........172..54. ED=9.1/2.6/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........142..57. ED=9.1/2.6/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........712..45. ED=3.4/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........6.........729..41. ED=9.6/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........472..15. ED=10.1/10.1/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........472..85. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........472..81. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........462..51. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........427..58. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........426..57. ED=9.6/9.5/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........426..81. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........426..17. ED=9.4/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........426..15. ED=9.6/9.0/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........421..58. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........412..75. ED=7.5/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........712..45. ED=7.5/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........726..15. ED=9.6/9.0/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........726..14. ED=9.4/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........726..81. ED=9.4/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........726..54. ED=9.6/9.5/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........721..58. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........724..58. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........762..51. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........742..15. ED=10.1/10.1/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........742..85. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........742..81. ED=9.5/7.2/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........247..81. ED=7.3/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........247..85. ED=9.4/7.2/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........247..58. ED=9.3/7.2/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........274..85. ED=9.4/7.2/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........274..81. ED=7.3/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........274..58. ED=9.3/7.2/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........217..54. ED=2.9/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........9.........214..57. ED=2.9/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........246..17. ED=9.7/9.7/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........249..15. ED=9.7/9.5/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........276..14. ED=9.7/9.7/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........279..15. ED=9.7/9.5/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........629..57. ED=8.4/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........629..54. ED=8.4/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........627..54. ED=9.4/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........627..45. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........624..75. ED=9.5/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........624..57. ED=9.4/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........642..51. ED=9.8/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........672..51. ED=9.8/2.8/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........429..57. ED=9.7/9.5/2.6
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........426..58. ED=20.0/2.5/2.5
.83..296.........1........32.........................53........1.........462..15. ED=9.8/2.8/2.6
urhegyi
 
Posts: 496
Joined: 13 April 2020

Re: SudokuW/SudokuWX (Windoku)

Postby 1to9only » Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:19 pm

urhegyi wrote:I figured out today how to rate a batchfile created with SiSeSuSo of windoku-x with sukakuexplainer (1to9only version), but when it gets ratings above 10.1/10.1/2.6 it shows SE 20.0 and aborts.

The 1to9only version lacks many solving techniques. :(
You can rate all (or just the 20.0's) using SudokuMonster's version.
The command line options are different for the 2 versions! :?
1to9only
 
Posts: 3244
Joined: 04 April 2018

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