Sudokus with an original rare shape

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Postby gsf » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:45 pm

coloin wrote:To qualify as a neighbour - a neighbouring puzzle has to
have a unique solution
be minimal
have the same pattern
be non-isomorphic puzzle of the other
share a variable and defined number of common clues

"neighbour" might be too general a term for puzzles with the same pattern
there was another thread where "neighboring" puzzles were genrated by dropping a clue and adding another
this technique can be used to generate a taxonomy of n-off puzzles

you can use mutable clues to get the "mutatble neighbors" of the given puzzle
for the given puzzle there is one mutable clue with two values
so the 2 mutable neighbors are
Code: Select all
1...2.....3.4.1.....5...6...1.....2.2.......7.4.....5...6...1.....7.8.9.....9...2 #    22 FN C20.m/S4.da
1...2.....3.4.1.....5...6...1.....2.2.......7.4.....5...6...1.....7.8.9.....3...2 #    22 FN C20.m/S4.da
Last edited by gsf on Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gsf
2014 Supporter
 
Posts: 7306
Joined: 21 September 2005
Location: NJ USA

Postby coloin » Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:24 am

Yes there will be many more puzzles if you diverge from the pattern.

Mutable clue = 1-off [one clue removed and a different one added in the same position]

Putting a clue somewhere else in the grid is possibly not what were thinking about - not sure how to coin this in neighbourly or galactic terms.
Code: Select all
1...2.....3.4.1.....5...6...1.....2.2.......7.4.....5...6...1.....7.8.9.....3...2
1...2.....3.4.1.....5...6...1.....2.2.......7.4.....5...6...1.....7.8.9.....9...2
1...2.....3.4.1.....5...6...1.....2.2.......7.4..9..5...6...1.....7.8.9.........2
1...2.....3.4.1.....5...6...1.....2.2.......7.4.....5...6...1.....7.8.9......3..2
1...2.....3.4.1.....5...6...1...7.2.2.......7.4.....5...6...1.....7.8.9.........2
1...2.....3.4.1.....5..36...1.....2.2.......7.4.....5...6...1.....7.8.9.........2


Im not particularly good at these rare patterns to order........the best I got was 64 solutions !
Code: Select all
5...9.....1.8.6.....3...5...8.....4.9.......3.5.....9...6...1.....3.2.7.....7...9


Are there really no more unique puzzles with this pattern ?

C
coloin
 
Posts: 1632
Joined: 05 May 2005

Postby m_b_metcalf » Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:38 pm

coloin wrote:
Code: Select all
+---+---+---+
|...|...|345|
|...|...|8.2|
|...|..3|679|
+---+---+---+
|...|728|9..|
|...|1.9|...|
|..1|435|...|
+---+---+---+
|845|2..|...|
|9.2|...|...|
|167|...|...|
+---+---+---+ very pleasing...

Pleasing because it was symetrically minimal

Modern models are even more pleasing when they are even more skinny. I tried that on your pattern and got
Code: Select all
 . . . . . . 2 1 4
 . . . . . . . . 6
 . . . . . 8 . 5 9
 . . . 6 . 5 3 . .
 . . . 3 8 4 . . .
 . . 2 1 . 9 . . .
 8 6 . 5 . . . . .
 3 . . . . . . . .
 4 1 7 . . . . . .   23 cells

(Another one had one cell less but was no longer rotationally symmetrical:( .)

Can anyone get skinnier still?

Regards,

Mike Metcalf
User avatar
m_b_metcalf
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 8290
Joined: 15 May 2006
Location: Berlin

A fish-like shape

Postby claudiarabia » Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:16 pm

And here is a fish-like shape.
Code: Select all
. . 6 . . . 9 . .
. 3 . . . 2 . 6 .
4 . . . 7 . . . 5
. 2 . 9 . . . 7 .
. . 9 . . . 8 . .
. 8 . 1 . . . 4 .
8 . . . 3 . . . 2
. 7 . . . 6 . 3 .
. . 5 . . . 1 . .


SE 7-3

Claudia
claudiarabia
 
Posts: 288
Joined: 14 May 2006

Re: A fish-like shape

Postby m_b_metcalf » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:06 pm

claudiarabia wrote:And here is a fish-like shape.

And another. With its big belly, if ever it catches yours it will surely gobble it up!
Code: Select all
 . 8 . . . 4 . . .
 . . 3 . 1 . . 9 .
 2 . . 7 . . . . 5
 . 6 . 3 . . . . 9
 . . . . . . . . .
 . 1 . 2 . . . . 3
 6 . . 9 . . . . 7
 . . . . 8 . . 1 .
 . 4 . . . 5 . . . SE 8.3

Regards, and bon appétit,

Mike Metcalf
User avatar
m_b_metcalf
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 8290
Joined: 15 May 2006
Location: Berlin

Re: A fish-like shape

Postby m_b_metcalf » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:21 pm

Here are two more denizens of the deep:
Code: Select all
 . . 3 . . . . . 5
 . 5 . 3 . . . 6 .
 1 . . . 2 7 . . .
 8 . . . . 6 2 . .
 . . . . 9 . . 1 .
 3 . . . . 1 4 . .
 7 . . . 5 3 . . .
 . 8 . 6 . . . 4 .
 . . 9 . . . . . 1    SE 6.6

Code: Select all
 . . 3 . . . . . 2
 . 5 . 3 . . . 6 .
 1 . . . 2 7 . . .
 8 . . . . 6 2 . .
 . . 7 . 9 . . 1 . .
 3 . . . . 1 4 . .
 7 . . . 5 3 . . .
 . 8 . 6 . . . 4 .
 . . 9 . . . . . 1     SE 8.3

Regards,

Mike Metcalf
User avatar
m_b_metcalf
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 8290
Joined: 15 May 2006
Location: Berlin

Some fully symmetrical stuff

Postby claudiarabia » Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:11 pm

Code: Select all
. . . 4 . 9 . . .
. . 2 . 3 . 7 . .
. 1 . . . . . 8 .
5 . . . . . . . 4
. 8 . . 2 . . 1 .
7 . . . . . . . 9
. 4 . . . . . 3 .
. . 5 . 1 . 2 . .
. . . 7 . 6 . . .


ER 8,7

Code: Select all
. . . 4 . 9 . . .
. . 2 . 5 . 7 . .
. 1 . . . . . 8 .
5 . . . . . . . 7
. 8 . . 2 . . 1 .
6 . . . . . . . 5
. 4 . . . . . 3 .
. . 5 . 1 . 2 . .
. . . 7 . 6 . . .


And here the same pattern ER 2,0
Both of them are minimal.
Last edited by claudiarabia on Wed May 02, 2007 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
claudiarabia
 
Posts: 288
Joined: 14 May 2006

Nice Jellyfish-puzzle

Postby claudiarabia » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:11 pm

In reminiscence to tso's and m.b.metcalfs little rectangles a Jellyfish-puzzle.

Code: Select all
. . . . . . . . .
. 9 7 8 . 4 3 6 .
. 5 . 9 . 7 . 1 .
. . 3 1 . 8 9 . .
. . . . . . . . .
. . 4 6 . 5 8 . .
. 2 . 3 . 6 . 9 .
. 6 8 7 . 9 1 5 .
. . . . . . . . .
claudiarabia
 
Posts: 288
Joined: 14 May 2006

Re: Some fully symmetrical stuff

Postby m_b_metcalf » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:24 pm

claudiarabia wrote:
Code: Select all
. . . 4 . 9 . . .
. . 2 . 5 . 7 . .
. 1 . . . . . 8 .
5 . . . . . . . 7
. 8 . . 2 . . 1 .
6 . . . . . . . 5
. 4 . . . . . 3 .
. . 5 . 1 . 2 . .
. . . 7 . 6 . . .


And here the same pattern ER 2,0
Both of them are minimal and untouchable.

Actually, in this one you can change r6c9 to 8, which can unleash a whole string of changes, the least of which is r7c2 to 9.

Regards,

Mike Metcalf
User avatar
m_b_metcalf
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 8290
Joined: 15 May 2006
Location: Berlin

Postby Eioru » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:24 pm

Code: Select all
7...9...5
.1.5.4.3.
.........
...9.3...
6.......7
.3.4.6.2.
.........
.4.1.2.6.
9...6...8


ER=7.1
Eioru
 
Posts: 182
Joined: 16 August 2006

Postby JPF » Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:58 pm

claudiarabia wrote:
Code: Select all
. . . 4 . 9 . . .
. . 2 . 3 . 7 . .
. 1 . . . . . 8 .
5 . . . . . . . 4
. 8 . . 2 . . 1 .
7 . . . . . . . 9
. 4 . . . . . 3 .
. . 5 . 1 . 2 . .
. . . 7 . 6 . . .
ER 8,7


Here is a 19 clues :

Code: Select all
 . . . 1 . 2 . . .
 . . 3 . 4 . 2 . .
 . 5 . . . . . 6 .
 5 . . . . . . . 7
 . 1 . . . . . 8 .
 8 . . . . . . . 4
 . 7 . . . . . 1 .
 . . 2 . . . 6 . .
 . . . 7 . 4 . . .   

ER=6.6

JPF
JPF
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 3752
Joined: 06 December 2005
Location: Paris, France

Postby JPF » Wed May 02, 2007 6:54 pm

20 clues, minimal :

Code: Select all
 . . . 1 . 2 . . .
 . . 3 . . . 1 . .
 . 4 . . . . . 5 .
 6 . . . 5 . . . 7
 7 . . . . . . . 1
 8 . . . 9 . . . 2
 . 9 . . . . . 3 .
 . . 5 . . . 8 . .
 . . . 7 . 6 . . .

ER=8.3

JPF
JPF
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 3752
Joined: 06 December 2005
Location: Paris, France

Postby claudiarabia » Wed May 02, 2007 9:25 pm

[quote="Eioru"]
Code: Select all
7 . . . 9 . . . 5
. 1 . 5 . 4 . 3 .
. . . . . . . . .
. . . 9 . 3 . . .
6 . . . . . . . 7
. 3 . 4 . 6 . 2 .
. . . . . . . . .
. 4 . 1 . 2 . 6 .
9 . . . 6 . . . 8
quote end

Code: Select all
7 . . . 9 . . . 5
. 6 . 5 . 4 . 3 .
. . . . . . . . .
. . . 9 . 3 . . .
6 . . . 8 . . . 7
. 3 . . 4 . . 2 .
. . . . . . . . .
. 4 . 1 . 2 . 6 .
9 . . . 6 . . . 8

ER=7.1

A nice Idea. For me it is more difficult to produce horizontal or vertical than diagonal or rotational Symmetry. I have changed you puzzle a bit to a minimal one and now the Swordfish is dominating where in yours the X-Wing rules.
claudiarabia
 
Posts: 288
Joined: 14 May 2006

Postby claudiarabia » Wed May 02, 2007 9:45 pm

Code: Select all
9 . . . 2 . . . 1
. . . 3 . . . 8 .
. . 6 . . . 5 . .
. 5 . . . 1 . . .
7 . . . 8 . . . 2
. . . 6 . . . 4 .
. . 3 . . . 6 . .
. 8 . . . 5 . . .
1 . . . 7 . . . 9
Slash-pattern-sudokus are a never-ending story.

Here is one with ER8,3

If you change r7c3 and r5c5 to 4 you will get a Sudoku ER 7,2

I leave it to JPF to eliminate r1c1 and r9c9 to make a perfect 19er.
claudiarabia
 
Posts: 288
Joined: 14 May 2006

Postby m_b_metcalf » Thu May 03, 2007 1:19 pm

claudiarabia wrote:Slash-pattern-sudokus are a never-ending story.

Here is one with ER8,3

And here's a slight variation with ER9.0:
Code: Select all
 9 . . . 2 . . . 1
 . . . 3 . . . 8 .
 . . 6 . . . 5 . .
 . 5 . . . 9 . . .
 7 . . . 8 . . . 2
 . . . 2 . . . 4 .
 . . 3 . . . 6 . .
 . 8 . . . 5 . . .
 1 . . . 7 . . . 9 SE 9.0

I leave it to JPF to eliminate r1c1 and r9c9 to make a perfect 19er.

I'll give him a hand by offering this:
Code: Select all
 4 . . . 6 . . . 2
 . . . 2 . . . 8 .
 . . 6 . . . 7 . .
 . 5 . . . 7 . . .
 7 . . . 2 . . . 3
 . . . 6 . . . 4 .
 . . 4 . . . 5 . .
 . 8 . . . 9 . . .
 2 . . . 7 . . . .   SE 6.6


Regards,

Mike Metcalf
User avatar
m_b_metcalf
2017 Supporter
 
Posts: 8290
Joined: 15 May 2006
Location: Berlin

PreviousNext

Return to General