start solving duo sudoku

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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby creint » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:03 pm

Medium only needs one layer of locked singles. So generalized locked singles has SE rating 4.1.
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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby 1to9only » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:19 pm

Hajime wrote:
1to9only wrote:The first 2 8x8 overlapped sudokus solve as JSBs (Jigsaw Sudoku with Block constraints).
Code: Select all
.............726.................16...8.2.5.9.5..8...4.4...9.....5.......263....7 ED=3.0
..........97....5..4..3.2.9..8....6..1.7.8..4....94................5...1..59...82 ED=1.2

Is this code correct?

To clarify - the second grid is not used, the first grid solves as a JSB sudoku (command line SE 1.2.1.3 ratings):
Code: Select all
.............726.................16...8.2.5.9.5..8...4.4...9.....5.......263....7 JSB Sudoku, ED=2.9/1.2/1.2
...726.................16...8.2.5.9.5..8...4.4...9.....5.......263....7..........

..........97....5..4..3.2.9..8....6..1.7.8..4....94................5...1..59...82 JSB Sudoku, ED=1.2/1.2/1.2
97....5..4..3.2.9..8....6..1.7.8..4....94................5...1..59...82..........

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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby 1to9only » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:29 pm

creint wrote:Medium only needs one layer of locked singles. So generalized locked singles has SE rating 4.1.

I'm using a modified SukakuExplainer, solving the 2 grids as separate sudokus. No generalized intersections enabled (I think enabled only for other variants!).
Yes, generalized intersections can be enabled for the 8x8 overlapped sudokus if additional contraints were to be added/coded for the 2 grids.
The ED=4.1 rating is for a 2-String Kite in my solving path.
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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby urhegyi » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:02 am

Hajime wrote:Because there is an overlapping of 8 cells the outermost 2 cells (one per grid) must be equal.
But I confirm that the puzzle of creint is indeed very hard, so did you have a lucky guess or do you have extreme skills?

Here is a duo puzzle with 7x7 overlap:
Map7X7-1.jpg
Map7X7-1.jpg (173.28 KiB) Viewed 125 times

For me 7x7 overlap is harder then 8x8 overlap.
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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby 1to9only » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:33 pm

urhegyi wrote: I'm searching for examples with naked and or hidden subsets, and also with x-wing.

Of the JSBs I generated (r1 and c1 with no givens), roughly half of them can also be solved as 8x8 overlapped sudokus (after adding grid 2 with r9 and c9 with no givens). Of these most solve with singles only, some require a few non-singles techniques - puzzles with 5-6 or more of naked/hidden subsets and fishes are few.

Difficulty: Medium
Image
Code: Select all
..........7....31........5..2..4...6.....21.....63.....5...4..8..4........81....3 ED=4.2/1.2/1.2
7....31........5..2..4...6.....21.....63.....5...4..8..4........81....3.......... ED=3.6/1.2/1.2
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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby urhegyi » Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:00 pm

39563_430965.png
39563_430965.png (18.23 KiB) Viewed 106 times
From time to time there are new overlapping 8x8 ones on sudoku.today, like today:
solution:
grid1:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
942165387183297546576483192715924638634718259298536714821659473459372861367841925

grid2:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
832975461764831925159246387347182596985367142216594738593728614678419253421653879
Last edited by urhegyi on Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby Hajime » Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:11 pm

urhegyi wrote:For me 7x7 overlap is harder then 8x8 overlap.

I get the impression that you did use some kind of solver...
Looking at the layout of your solution...
But congratulations. The solution is correct.
Last edited by Hajime on Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby urhegyi » Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:16 pm

Hajime wrote:
urhegyi wrote:For me 7x7 overlap is harder then 8x8 overlap.

I get the impression that you did use some kind of solver...
Looking at the layout of your solution...

yes, I tried an old excel version of yours 2_sudoku.xls. I wanted to test other configurations as the usual overlappings, and it seems to work fine.
The picture is based on the layout of your solver. Mostly I need only solvers to produce the pencilmarks. Doing that by hand, certainly when overlapping grids are involved with, takes to much time which I like to spend on solving the sudokus instead of writing the candidate numbers in it.
Last edited by urhegyi on Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby urhegyi » Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:49 am

1to9only wrote:
urhegyi wrote: I'm searching for examples with naked and or hidden subsets, and also with x-wing.

Of the JSBs I generated (r1 and c1 with no givens), roughly half of them can also be solved as 8x8 overlapped sudokus (after adding grid 2 with r9 and c9 with no givens). Of these most solve with singles only, some require a few non-singles techniques - puzzles with 5-6 or more of naked/hidden subsets and fishes are few.

Difficulty: Medium
Image
Code: Select all
..........7....31........5..2..4...6.....21.....63.....5...4..8..4........81....3 ED=4.2/1.2/1.2
7....31........5..2..4...6.....21.....63.....5...4..8..4........81....3.......... ED=3.6/1.2/1.2

solution:
grid1:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
532716489876495312419328657325841796687952134941637825153264978794583261268179543

grid2:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
764953128193286574258417963879521346416378259532649781945832617681795432327164895
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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby 1to9only » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:43 pm

urhegyi wrote:From time to time there are new overlapping 8x8 ones on sudoku.today, like today:

The 8x8 overlapped sudokus can be solved using either one of these JSBs (Jigsaws with Blocks):
Image
I think this works when grid1 r1 and c1 are empty. Not sure if this will always work!
Solution:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
942165387183297546576483192715924638634718259298536714821659473459372861367841925
832975461764831925159246387347182596985367142216594738593728614678419253421653879
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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby urhegyi » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:51 am

I already figuered out the jigsaw part last weekend. I came to this:
Code: Select all
...............54..7.4......1..2..3......8..9..85........6..4......7.86.......9.. 311122233644455566644455566644455566977788899977788899977788899311122233311122233

At that moment the checking of the normal sudoku blocks I did manually. Nice you have them enabled to. Is it this setting in the JSON file("isJSB":"false")that has to be changed or is there more work to do to take count of the blocks too?
Without taking them into account I came to this picture:
Attachments
2020-11-17.png
2020-11-17.png (87.59 KiB) Viewed 49 times
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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby 1to9only » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:15 am

urhegyi wrote:Nice you have them enabled to. Is it this setting in the JSON file("isJSB":"false")that has to be changed or is there more work to do to take count of the blocks too?

JSB is enabled/working (Variation/Enable JSB) only in the most recent Jigsaw Explainer - redownload from: https://github.com/1to9only/SudokuJigsawExplainer/releases

The 2 JSB definitions I used:
Code: Select all
...............54..7.4......1..2..3......8..9..85........6..4......7.86.......9.. 977788899311122233311122233311122233644455566644455566644455566977788899977788899 JSB

Code: Select all
.....54..7.4......1..2..3......8..9..85........6..4......7.86.......9............ 112223331112223331445556664445556664445556664778889997778889997778889997112223331 JSB

I must add that to generate the JSBs for the 8x8 overlapped sudokus, I've used a modified Jigsaw Explainer that clears r1 and c1 from the solution grid - this is not in the released Jigsaw Explainer.
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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby urhegyi » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:17 pm

39609_467242.png
39609_467242.png (18.52 KiB) Viewed 26 times
overlapped 8x8 versions seems to become populair today:
post1:
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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby urhegyi » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:19 pm

39482_471169.png
39482_471169.png (18.37 KiB) Viewed 26 times
And another one from the same site:
post2:
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Re: start solving duo sudoku

Postby 1to9only » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:03 pm

Post 1: Easy, singles only.
Code: Select all
.............4..71..........3.....56.9...6..7....97..8.5...84.....9..78..6.....9. ED=2.3/1.2/1.2
...4..71..........3.....56.9...6..7....97..8.5...84.....9..78..6.....9........... ED=1.5/1.2/1.2

Solution:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
671289534329645871485173629837421956294856317516397248952718463143962785768534192
296458713851736294374219568948563172163972485527184639439627851685341927712895346

Post 2: Easy, singles only.
Code: Select all
.............56.3...4.9......9.7..12.1.2..8.5..563......3.....7....1.....52.6.... ED=1.5/1.2/1.2
...56.3...4.9......9.7..12.1.2..8.5..563......3.....7....1.....52.6.............. ED=1.5/1.0/1.0

Solution:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
591483276728156439634792158469578312317249865285631794143925687976814523852367941
281564397347921586695783124172498653856317942439256871768145239523679418914832765
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