scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Programs which generate, solve, and analyze Sudoku puzzles

Re: scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Postby champagne » Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:04 am

Ruud from Sudocue wrote:Since the list assembled by Gordon Royle has been hidden behind a (misconfigured?) firewall, it has become difficult to find a single source for a complete list of 17-clue sudokus.
A few sources have a list of 49158 puzzles and there are several references to this thread.
If this is not the place to post new additions, please point me to the correct thread.

I would like to contribute the following list of 556 puzzles, which, to my best knowledge, are not part of the current 49158.
All of these have been found by replacing a single clue from one of the original 49518.
To make sure that these are indeed new additions, please verify them to be unique, correct and in the right canonical form.


Hi Ruud,

so many new 17 would have been amazing. We are expecting at most one or 2 more 17 (if we are lucky).

Nothing new on my side. However, as I am using a data base in max lexical canonical form, it's not easy for me to give you the original corresponding 17.

EDIT AFAIK, mladen dobrichev made a full vicinity search "deep 3". Such puzzles would have been seen in the search.
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Re: scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Postby Ruud from Sudocue » Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:53 pm

Thanks champagne,
I fixed the error in my min-lex algorithm. It no longer produces any additions.
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Re: milestone December 2021

Postby champagne » Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:54 am

milestone 2022/02/08 last one 2021/12/03

A little more than the usual 2 months between milestones.

We have only 23 more "bands 1" closed. This is likely a good indicator of the average expected run time for the remaining last 62 "bands 1" to cover.
85% of the "bands 1" have been processed, but we have still about 25% of the solution grids to scan.
No bet at this point about the probability to find a new 17.

Our friend mith joined the team and checked his first grid (index 120). Still busy to produce high ratings, he supplied a limited power to the 17 search, but this could overcome the increase in the average run time and give us a chance to finish the job around mid 2022

all bands 1 not processed are in the index range 63-129.
Mathimagics is processing the slice 110_119
Mith is processing the slice 120-129
and I am working in the slice 63-70

Another new, but the final result will come to late to help us in the current search.

Clearly, blue continued to work on this topic and supplied mathimagics with a DLL searching the 18 with amazing low run times. This has been discussed in another thread
low_hi clue
Without the sources, just with few comments given here and there, it was difficult to understand what he did new, but analyzing the results, some points appear.

This could be the basis for a new attack of the 17 search giving much better results, but the current scan will be over before the delivery of a fully tested fresh code.
However, this could be of help to do start a 18 search in a similar way

The first step for this new code is to finish and test the implementation of a "one solution grid" scan. Where I am, this should be over in February.
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Re: milestone December 2021

Postby champagne » Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:29 am

milestone 022/04/10 after 2022/02/08

Nothing really new, may be a remark : the last bands are slightly harder than expected.

Mith, in trouble with his computer had to stop a while his contribution.
Mathimagics and me continue to bring the same power to the scan.

We still have 41 "bands 1" to scan to likely establish that all 17 clues are known, but we can not exclude the possibility to produce the #49159!!

Blue had written a 18/19 search much more efficient that the current scan. Unhappily, we don't have the sources and the DLL in the hands of mathimagics is for a solution grid, not for all bands 3 attached to a given pair band1;band2.

I am still fighting to crack blue's findings, but not yet in line with his results.
The scan will be over in 3/4 months, so a new version will come to late to replace the current one.
I'll continue the exercise to try to deliver sources performing well in the search of low clues linked to a solution grid
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Re: scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Postby champagne » Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:36 am

Game over

We have 49158 ED sudokus, not one more.

This has been a very long task done with a limited power.

The scan to extract all 17s having one band/stack with more than 6 clues started in the end of the summer 2017 and was finished in October 2018.

The scan for the distribution 566 656 (no stack over 6 clues) started after, with ” more or less” 20 cores of an I7 (processors available at this moment).

Mathimagics came in June 2020 to double the throughput and processed bands index 90 to 119 and 130 to 199. This was a difficult area and it has been a key contribution to the project.
Mith arrived later and took over the slice 120-129. Thanks to him as well.

Most of the scan for this distribution has been done with the V6 version of the code.


The proof that no 16 clues exists was done in one year with 820 cores. Here a rough estimate would give: the proof that all 17s are known was done in 5 years with less than 40 active cores. This is an amazing improvement in performance, due to blue’s ideas.

In 2019, Blue had written a 18/19 search much more efficient that the current scan. He sent to mathimagics a DLL analyzing a solution grid to extract possible 18s.
Unhappily, we don't have the sources of the DLL. Blue’s last post was end of 2019.

I worked on this topic, trying to crack blue’s fresh ideas. I have in hands a code approaching blue’s performance, still in debugging status.
If all this works, we have a sound basis to write a V7 much faster tan the V6 (too late) but also to think of a 18 scan producing all ED 18.

Next month, I’ll pass 80, and I have other heavy constraints. I had to reduce drastically the time dedicated to the sudoku field. The work on 18 clues will likely be my last search in this field.

The draft of the current code is here sk_is18 It will be updated on a regular basis.

Then (in one month ??) I intend to prepare a V7 on the 17 search. Although the basic concepts are the same, the process organization is quite different. In the DLL, only one solution grid is studied (with six permutations in my code), in the V6 search, several bands 3 are attached to a pair {band1;band2}, and we have three versions of the code differing by the set of bands 3 attached and the distribution checked;

The reason to prepare this V7 is to have a file of known for tests and validation of the code. The final code that I would produce is the 18 scan, not far from the 17 scan.

Aging and health problems can stop this at any moment, so I’ll prepare comments on the 18 current program as soon as possible and I’ll keep the draft available in the appropriate repositories.

I’ll open a separate thread for the 18 clues search.
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Re: scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Postby JPF » Tue Aug 02, 2022 11:21 am

Congratulations!

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Re: scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Postby m_b_metcalf » Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:29 pm

Astonishing performance. Congratulations to all concerned, and a special wish to champagne for better health and for many more sudoku years.

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Re: scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Postby champagne » Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:55 pm

m_b_metcalf wrote:Astonishing performance. Congratulations to all concerned, and a special wish to champagne for better health and for many more sudoku years.

MIke


Thanks mike, I have currently no serious health problem, but I see/saw so many friends of my age with big (sometimes lethal) troubles that this is something I keep in mind. Blue's disappearance has been a true loss for the sudoku community.
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Re: scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Postby m_b_metcalf » Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:05 pm

champagne wrote: Blue's disappearance has been a true loss for the sudoku community.

??????
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Re: scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Postby champagne » Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:37 pm

m_b_metcalf wrote:
champagne wrote: Blue's disappearance has been a true loss for the sudoku community.

??????

Well, I did not see this post. for me, the last post from blue was end of 2019.
This is a very good signal. I'll try a pm to him.
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Re: scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Postby coloin » Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:32 pm

Well done !!
Interesting on the 18C search as well..
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Re: scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Postby ghfick » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:26 pm

VERY impressive work!

forum.enjoysudoku.com/17-clue-puzzles-t39364.html

...contains several lists of 'hard' 17 clue puzzles

Is there a list of the currently known 18 clue puzzles posted somewhere?
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Re: scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Postby Mathimagics » Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:10 pm

ghfick wrote:Is there a list of the currently known 18 clue puzzles posted somewhere?

There are simply too many.

We know of 600+ million ED grids that have 1 or more 18C puzzles. This is probably about 2/3 of the total grids that we would expect, based on blue's sampling (which suggests that 1 in 6 grids, or roughly 910 million has an 18C).
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Re: scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Postby Serg » Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:17 pm

Hi, champagne, Mathimagics, mith and blue!
champagne wrote:We have 49158 ED sudokus, not one more.

Congratulations! You got great results! (Although it would be more fun to find at least one new 17, but c'est la vie.)

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Re: scan solution grids for 17 clues as of blue

Postby mith » Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:48 am

Yay! Happy to be able to lend my computer for the last stretch. :)
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