The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **champagne** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:01 pm

:::comment:::

tarek wrote:
I'm hoping that something like this would generate minimal puzzles with high diamonds
Code: Select all
X . X | . . X | . . X . X . | . X . | . X . X . X | X . . | X . . -------+-------+------- . . X | X . X | . . X . X . | . X . | . X . X . . | X . X | X . . -------+-------+------- . . X | . . X | X . X . X . | . X . | . X . X . . | X . . | X . X
33 clues

tarek

a subset of that pattern has been played in game 40.

Highest diamond 10.6
Highest rating 10.7

I would have bet that more subsets of that pattern could have been played, I only found game 40.

champagne

by **m_b_metcalf** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:15 am

::: comment :::

Pat wrote:29 is the maximum for the game

i'm willing to raise this limit

but finding any minimal puzzles is quite difficult
when the pattern has so many clues

I imposed this pattern on a million random grids (they sometimes come in useful). About half yielded a valid, non-minimal puzzle. No puzzle was minimal.

Regards,

Mike Metcalf

by **g.r.emlin** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:09 am

::: patterns :::

........X..X..X....X..X.XX.........X..X..X....X..X.XX..X..X.....X..X....X..X..... 100000002030405060000070000050000030008000600020000050000010000040206080700000004 3.4/1.2/1.2 f 2007-02-26+05:16:00-0000 JPF
........X..X..X....X..X......X.X..X..X...XX..X..X.......X.X.X...X...X.X.X..X..... 100002003040000050006100400300000700000040000008000009007005600050000070900200001 9.1/1.2/1.2 r 2007-03-07+20:09:00-0000 JPF
........X..X..X.X..X..X.X..........X..X..X.X..X..X.X....X..X.X..X..X.X..X..X..... 000100000020003040004050006600000700007080001090005030000400000060009050001060008 9.2/1.2/1.2 d 2007-04-20+13:07:00-0000 Eioru
..............X..X...XX.XX...............X..X.XX..X..X.XX.......XX..X..XX...X..X. 001230400000000050060000070504300000070000000208100000050000090000000030009480100 7.1/1.2/1.2 h 2007-05-01+16:26:00-0000 m_b_metcalf
........X.....X.X.....X.X.....X....X..X..X....X..X..X...X.X..X..X....X..X..X....X 001002003020010040000500600000000001500000070060000800007000004010800020800060000 1.5/1.2/1.2 a 2007-05-17+17:29:00-0000 JPF
.....X..X....X..X...X...X.......X..X.X.....X.X..X.......X...X...X..X..X.X..X..... 100020003000400050006000100010007000300000006000600020002000700050001000800030000 2.0/1.2/1.2 d 2007-05-27+06:15:00-0000 Mauricio
.......XX..X..X....X..X...........XX..X..X....X..X...........XXX..X..X..X..X..X.. 100000002000103000004000500060010050000406000070050080001000400000307000900000006 2.0/1.2/1.2 f 2007-06-27+13:50:00-0000 JPF
..............X..X..X....X...X.X.....X...X..X.X.X....X..XX...X..X.X...X.X....X... 000000009058000040700100300014005000000000000000300290009004007030000810200000000 6.2/1.2/1.2 p 2007-07-25+23:04:00-0000 ravel
.......XX.......XX..X..X.....X..X....X..X....X..X..X....X..X....X..X....X..X..X.. 003000700040000010500020006000204000009000800000607000200060005060000090007000100 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2007-08-14+08:52:00-0000 TTHsieh
..............X..XXXX..X..X....X..X.....X..X.XXX.X..X....X..X.....X..X..XXXX..X.. 000000000001234500002000100030000040060178030080000070400000008800793002700000006 1.2/1.2/1.2 v 2007-08-20+10:12:00-0000 Mauricio
........X......XX...X..X.....X..X.....X..X.....X..XXXX.X..X.....X..X....X..X....X 001234500006000200007000400050000060800070009040000020004000800000901000000050000 1.5/1.2/1.2 v 2007-08-25+08:48:00-0000 JPF
...........X..X.XX.XX.XXX.............X..X.XX.XX.XXX....X..X....X..X.....X..X.... 000000000004102500067030410090000070006000200030000050071020830002508100000000000 1.5/1.5/1.5 f 2007-09-01+06:56:00-0000 TTHsieh
........X..X..X....XX.XX..X........X..X..X....XX.XX..X......XX.......XX.X.XX.X... 003000700000030000809010406000601000095000870000507000208040103000060000004000500 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2007-09-09+11:33:00-0000 TTHsieh
........X.....X.XX....XX.........X....X...XX..XX.........XX.X...X..X....XX......X 003450000000100000409000000910002000600000005000700043000000206000007000000049800 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2007-09-15+12:40:00-0000 TTHsieh
........X..X..X..X.X..X.XX.........X..X..X..X.X..X.XX...X..X..X..X..X..XXX.XX.XX. 001203400000050000200060005400070006015604780800010003100040009000090000008705600 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2007-09-21+11:36:00-0000 TTHsieh
..............X..X.XX.X..X...............X..X.XX.X..X..XX......XXX..X..XXXX..X..X 010000020300104005000000000060741080000905000040682010000000000700509002080000060 1.5/1.0/1.0 f 2007-09-28+07:30:00-0000 TTHsieh
...........X..X..X..X.XX.XX...........X..X..X..X.XX.XX....XX.XXXX.......XX....... 000000000001020300045030160000705000086000450000908000053070610004090200000000000 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2007-10-05+21:43:00-0000 TTHsieh
..............X.XX.XX..X..X...........X...X.X..X.XX..X....X.....X........XX.XX..X 000000000000012300045030600020000000037080160000000030001070420008950000000000000 1.5/1.5/1.5 r 2007-10-16+06:57:00-0000 JPF
.......XX.......XX..X..XX....X..X.....X..X...XX.XX.X....X..X.....X..X...XX.XX.X.. 001000200003000400450030016000704000006050100000801000810090054005000300004000700 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2007-10-20+08:05:00-0000 TTHsieh
..............X..XXXX.XX.XX..............X..XXXX.XX.XX.....X..X.XX..X..X.XX..X..X 000000000012345670080000090060708020070000050050201040020000060047162530000000000 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2007-10-26+08:27:00-0000 TTHsieh
........X..X..X....XX.XXXX.........X..X..X....XX.XXXX...X..X.....X..X...X..X..... 000010000001000200023405160004000300300000007002000600076302810008000400000090000 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2007-11-01+11:45:00-0000 TTHsieh
.......XX..X..X....X..X.X.........XX..X..X....X..X.X...X..X...XX..X.....X..X..X.. 700000006010020030000605000005000200040300010003090700000807000090010020600000007 1.5/1.2/1.2 a 2007-11-04+18:46:00-0000 wintder
........X..X..X.X..X..X.X..........X..X..X.X..X..X.X.....X..XX.X..X.....X..X..... 010000020003000400000405000006070800050030010400000006060000030009000200000652000 1.5/1.2/1.2 v 2007-11-06+17:46:00-0000 JPF
.......XX.......XX..X..XX....X..XX...X..X....X..X.......X..XX...X..X....X..X..... 600000008010090030005000600000602000030010060000503000003000500070080010400000007 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2007-11-13+10:10:00-0000 m_b_metcalf
........X.....X.X.XXX...X.......X.X.....X....XXXX.......XX..X...X.X..X..X..X..X.. 100000000020345000006000400050100070040080020080006090007000300000217080000000001 2.3/1.2/1.2 da 2007-11-17+13:05:00-0000 JPF
.......XX......X.X......XXX..X..X....X.XX....XX..X......X..X...X..XX....XX.X..... 102000300030000020400000506000015000000789000000420000607000009050000010009000208 2.3/2.0/2.0 da 2007-11-21+11:27:00-0000 TTHsieh
..........XX.XX.XX.XX.XX.XX.......XX..X..X...X..X...XX.......XX..X..X...X..X...XX 010000020200103004000205000023401670000000000065702310000508000800904003090000060 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2007-11-25+12:20:00-0000 TTHsieh
........X.....XXX...X...XX.....X......X..X.X.XX..X......X..XX...X........X.XX.... 100200003024000050000000060000107008000020000800503000040000000060000420300008001 2.0/1.2/1.2 r 2007-11-30+09:15:00-0000 TTHsieh
......XXX.....X..X..X.....X..X..X.X..X..X....X..X.......X..XX...X..X....X..X..... 100000002020100030004000500030060000000725000000040010006000400080003090200000006 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2007-12-03+09:25:00-0000 TTHsieh
........X.....X.....X.............X...XXXX.X.XXX.X..........X...X.XXX...XXX..XX.. 000600000574100030200000185000000040000050000010000000639000002080009576000004000 2.0/1.2/1.2 p 2007-12-05+10:18:00-0000 JPF
........X..X..X.X..X.XX........X.X....X..X..XX..X..X...X...X..X.X..X....X.X...X.. 090020500004005010060000003001800060000900002080072000500001070000300901003000000 7.2/1.2/1.2 a 2007-12-08+00:00:00-0000 g.r.emlin
.....X..X....X..X....X.XXX...X....X..X..XX..XX.XX....X..X..X....XX.X.X..X...X..XX 020890400070002083400030000060000009803000701200000040000050004580100060004086010 6.6/1.2/1.2 r 2007-12-09+21:59:42-0000 g.r.emlin
...............XXX..X..X..X...............XXX..X..X..X.X..X.....X..X.....XX.XX..X 000943000060010050000000000800000003750060014100000009000000000020050080000374000 2.0/1.2/1.2 f 2007-12-13+12:18:00-0000 JPF
........X.....XXX..XX..X.X........X...X...X.X..X.XX..X.X..X.X...XXX.....X...XX... 000012300000400000105006700306000070700080009020000108001500403000001000003890000 1.2/1.2/1.2 r 2007-12-13+13:10:00-0000 JPF
........X....XX..XXXX.....X...X.X.X...X.X..X...XX.X....X........X....XXX.X.XX.... 001230000004000000005000461000502007500040002100603000826000300000000800000096100 1.2/1.2/1.2 r 2007-12-14+22:00:00-0000 JPF
.......XX......XXX..X..X..........XX......XXX..X..X....X..X....XX.XX....XX.XX.... 000123000000405000002000400630000054500000007780000069008000100000706000000531000 2.0/1.2/1.2 f 2007-12-14+22:27:00-0000 JPF
..............XXXX...XXX..X..X....XX..X..XX...XX.X.X...X..XX....X.X....X.XXX...X. 008700050003608007710200000974000080000000000030000924000005092600103400040006100 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2007-12-24+23:48:00-0000 gsf
.......XX..X..X....XX.XX..........XX..X..X....XX.XX..........XXX..X..XXXX..X..XXX 010000020230000045000203000006472500000806000007359600000708000840000039060000010 1.5/1.0/1.0 f 2007-12-28+16:43:00-0000 TTHsieh
...........X..X..X.X..X.XX............X..X..X.X..X.XX...X..X.....X..X....X..X...X 000000000001203400020010050010000060004050700080000020050020010007104300000000000 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2007-12-30+06:32:00-0000 TTHsieh
..............X..XXXX.X..X...............X..XXXX.X..X.....X..X..XX.X..X..XX.X..X. 000000000010234050006000100070405080050000060030802040005000300040617020000000000 1.5/1.5/1.5 f 2007-12-30+10:49:00-0000 TTHsieh
...........X..X.XX.X..X.XXX...........X..X.XX.X..X.XXX..X..X....XX.XX....XX.XX... 000000000001234500020105030014000260050000010072000890040709020006452700000000000 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2007-12-30+17:21:00-0000 TTHsieh
...............XXX..X..X.XX...............XXX..X..X.XX.X..X.X...XX.XX....XX.XX... 000000000010203040000456000047000890002070600098000750000684000030701060000000000 2.0/1.2/1.2 f 2007-12-15+13:29:00-0000 JPF
...........X..X..X.X..X.XX............X..X..X.X..X.XX...X..X..X..X..X..X.X..X.XXX 000000000001020300020103040002050100050267030008030400070405010006080900000000000 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2008-01-07+07:41:00-0000 TTHsieh
........X..X..XXX...X..XXX.......XX..X..X....X..X...........XX..X..X....X..X..... 700000009060000020000908000009102800000030000002405100000803000070000060800000001 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2008-01-16+01:35:00-0000 coloin
...........X..X..X.X..X.XX............X..X..X.X..X.XX.......XX.X..X.....X..X..... 010000020002000300000405000006040200070000010005060800000901000004000600090000070 1.5/1.2/1.2 hv 2007-12-23+05:54:00-0000 JPF
........X......XXX......XXX..X..X....XX.XX...XX.XX......X..X....XX.XX...XX.XX.... 004000900037000540190000038000103000000589000000204000460000089012000360005000700 2.3/1.2/1.2 hv 2008-01-16+20:43:00-0000 m_b_metcalf
X....X..X..X.X..X..X.X..X....X.X..X..X.X..X..X....X..X..X.X..X..X.X..X..X....X..X 100200300020010040003005006700600500050080070008004001800700400030060020009002007 1.2/1.2/1.2 da 2008-02-02+05:31:00-0000 Mauricio
.......XX..X..X....X..X.X.........XX..X..X....X..X.X....X..X...X..X...XXX..X...XX 003000500000701000800020006080406010007000900030108020400060009000209000001000300 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2008-02-06+15:52:00-0000 Pat
.......XX.......XX.XX.XX.....X..XX...X..X.X..X..X.......X..XX...X..X.X..X..X..... 800030007060000080002060500000308000201000809000907000004050100050000030600070004 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2008-01-28+14:58:20 gsf
.......XX..X..X....X..X.X.........XX..X..X....X..X.X...X..X.X..X..X.....X..X..... 100020003080000050000401000005000600700080001004000200000802000060000040200030006 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2008-02-03+22:44:00-0000 coloin
.....X..X....X..X...XX..X....X...X...X...X..XX...X..X...XX......X...X..XX...X..X. 100800400000010050007003009800000200050060080002000003200600300070080000001007002 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2008-01-16+20:44:00-0000 m_b_metcalf
...........X..X.XX.XX.XX.XX...........X..X.XX.XX.XX.XX......X...XX.XX....XX.XX... 000000000001203400023506170035000740000030000076000820014308250008702300000000000 1.2/1.2/1.2 f 2008-02-09+10:11:00-0000 Mauricio
........X..X..X.X..X..X.X..........X..X..X.X..X..X.X....X..X.X..X..X.X..X..X....X 000500000008007004030020080800400600006005003090030020000200000004009005070060090 1.5/1.2/1.2 d 2008-03-12+13:54:00-0000 Pat
.......XX.......XX..X..X....X..X.....XX.XX.XXX..X..X...X..X.....XX.XX.XXX..X..X.. 120000089006000200700020005500906001007000500600501008300010002005000400270000093 1.5/1.2/1.2 hv 2008-01-29+01:32:21 gsf
...........X..X..X.X..X.XX............X..X..X.X..X.XX...X..X..X.X..X.....X..X.... 800301002000000000007020900200000003009080700300000004006010500000000000500208001 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2008-03-21+09:45:00 claudiarabia
...........X..X..X.X..X..X....X..X....X..X.X..X..X...X...X..X....X.X...X.X...X.X. 001002300020000010700400008006500009000000000400008200200009006080000050005600800 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2008-02-06+02:00:00-0000 coloin
.............XX.XX....XX.XX..........XX..X..X.XX.X..X...........XX..X..X.XX.X..X. 000000000009203600030907040046000980000000000098000370070402030004601200000000000 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2008-01-16+20:45:00-0000 m_b_metcalf
.....X..X.....X..X...XX.XX...X.....X..X.....XXX....XX...X..X.....X..X...XX.XX.... 010020000203405000040060000030000040708000102060000070000070050000102308000080090 1.7/1.5/1.5 da 2008-02-09+12:55:00-0000 Mauricio
.......XX.....XX.X..X...XX.....XX......XX..X..X.X.X....XX......X.X.X....XX......X 086000004507000000230100000004032000000705000000640800000001032000000705800000160 2.0/1.2/1.2 da 2008-03-26+14:52:00-0000 Pat
......XXX..X..X....X..X..........XXX..X..X....X..X....X..X.....X..X....XX..X...X. 000197000001000800050000020300006007800000004900300002070000060002000900000685000 1.5/1.5/1.5 da 2008-04-21+23:14:00-0000 tarek
.............XX.XX....XX.XX..........XX..X..X.XX.XX.XX..........XX..X..X.XX.XX.XX 000000000001603700026105930064000150000000000059000320073509610008706200000000000 1.2/1.2/1.2 f 2008-03-28+01:39:00-0000 gsf
.......XX.....XX....X.X...X..X.X.....X....X..X..X...X...XX...X..X...X...X...X.... 010080500230000000004000008000600800600050070000004003500700010000090600003008000 1.5/1.2/1.2 d 2008-03-14+22:28:00-0000 coloin
........X.....X.XX..X.X........X.X...X.......XX.X........X....X..X.X.X...X...X... 000000010000001023004050000000600040005010700080003000000040200620700000030000000 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2008-03-17+02:34:00-0000 Mauricio
.....X..X.....X.X.XXX..XX....X.....X..X...X....XXXX.X...X.X.XX..X...XXX.X..X..... 200008169700050000400600000500901400040000090003804002000006001000080005158300004 1.2/1.2/1.2 r 2008-05-04+11:41:00-0000 tarek
.....X..X..X....X..X..X.X.....X....X.X..X.X..X......X...X..XX...X..X..XXX..X..X.. 000003900010090020800400000600020400020504090004080003000009005030070010007200000 1.5/1.2/1.2 r 2008-05-13+15:16:00-0000 Pat
.......XX....XX....XX.....X......XX....X.X...X.XX......X.X..X..X...X...XXX...X.X. 520000000000000540700091000800400600040205010006003009000640003092000000000000086 1.2/1.2/1.2 p 2008-05-19+17:53:45-0000 draco
...........X..X.XX.X..X..XX...........X..X.XX.X..X..XX......X...XX.XX....XX.XX... 000000000009506100010203080021000850000050000078000610080402030006308900000000000 1.2/1.2/1.2 f 2008-03-28+01:39:00-0000 gsf
.......XX.....XX....X.X.X....XX......X...X..XX...X..X...XX...X..X...X...X...X.... 010000002203000000040010500000100005007050060000008700009003800000060030600200001 1.5/1.2/1.2 d 2008-04-17+00:30:00-0000 coloin
.....X..X..X.X..X.XX.X..X.......X..X..X.X..X.XX.X..X.....X..X..XX..X..X.XX..X..X. 001203400020000050300010002100302006007000500200608004500030007080000010003807200 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2008-04-28+10:59:00-0000 Mauricio
........X..X..X.X..X..X.X.........X...X..X..X.X..X.X....X..X.XX.X.X..X..X...X.X.. 090100030300060007000002000100090400050603010006020009000400000400010006020007050 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2008-05-04+13:18:00-0000 tarek
.....X..X....X..X...XX..X....XX..X...X......XX....X.X...XX..X...X...X.X.X...X.... 600001009020070030007300000003000004080040020900000300000004600070080040500900002 2.3/1.2/1.2 da 2008-06-01+14:01:00-0000 Pat
........X..X..X.X..X..X.X.....X...X...X..X...X...X.X....XX...X..X..X....X.....X.. 009500000040002300100000090200100080000020000070003004030000002007900010000004500 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2008-06-24+20:31:00-0000 pseudocoup
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...........X..X.XX..X..X.XX....X......XX......XX....XX....XX.XX.X...X...X........ 060000000200000500000102340004803600000000000007405100043507000005000070000000008 1.5/1.2/1.2 d 2008-05-28+20:07:00-0000 coloin
.....X..X.....X.X..XX...X.....XX...XX......X.X.....X....X..X....X..X..X.X..X..... 000005160600090000800300000900000700030060080004000005000004003000030008021500000 1.5/1.2/1.2 r 2008-05-05+01:48:00-0000 tarek
...........X..X..X.X..X..X......X..X..X...X...X.X...X.....X..X...X..XX...X.X..... 006700000080009200300000010600300070000000000090002005020000009007100030000003800 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2008-07-18+11:23:00-0000 Pat
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.....X..X..X.X..X..X.X..X.......X..X..XX..X..X...X..X.....X.X..XX.....X.XX.X..... 001002003020000010400010500000603002006000700200704000005030001010000050600400800 1.2/1.2/1.2 da 2008-08-15+22:05:00-0000 Mauricio
.....X..X....X..X....X..X....X.....X.X..X..X.X..X.X..X..XX..X.X.X..X..X.X..X..... 000001800080070040305800100900000700070000060003000009004003207020090010008600000 1.5/1.2/1.2 r 2008-05-05+14:15:00-0000 tarek
........X..X..X.....X..X.X.......XX....XX.....X.XX..........XX.XX.......XX..X.... 000000160000830000006000590060000009080070002000001000102000600507000000000340000 1.5/1.2/1.2 d 2008-08-17+13:12:00-0000 Pat
.....X..X.....X..X...XX.XX...X.X..X...XX..X..XX...X..X..X.X..X...XX..X..XX...X..X 001020300020103040400050002030000020607000403080000050800010004010604030002080100 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2008-09-08+13:52:00-0000 Mauricio
.....X..X....X..X...XX..X....X..XX...X..X...XX..X...X...XX....X.X...X.X.X...X.X.. 900002070002100800060080005050000030003010009800000200020007400600800003009060010 1.5/1.2/1.2 d 2008-05-05+14:57:00-0000 tarek
........X..X..XXX...X..XXX...X..XXX..X..X....X..X....X..X..XXX..X..X....X..X....X 100000002030040050005302600001706300000080000009105400002401500070020040500000006 1.5/1.2/1.2 hv 2008-09-22+09:39:00-0000 m_b_metcalf
........X..X..X....X..X..X....X...X..X..X....X....XX....X..X....X.X...X.X.....X.. 002700000090004500800000040300100070000020000040000006020000004005300010000006800 2.0/1.2/1.2 d 2008-09-14+08:16:00-0000 Pat
.....X..X.....X..X...XX.XX...X..X..X..X.X..X.XX.X..X....X..X..X..X.X..X.XX.X..X.. 001020300020010040300405001002000100130000067005000400200804009060070030004090600 2.0/1.2/1.2 f 2008-09-23+16:36:00-0000 Mauricio
.....X..X.....X.X..XX...X.....XX...XX......X.X.....X....X..X....X..X....X..X..... 000004360500020000700800000200000800060000090007000005000003009000050007038600000 1.5/1.2/1.2 r 2008-05-05+16:13:00-0000 tarek
.......XX.....X..X....XXX.......XXX...X...X...XXX.......XXX....X..X.....XX....... 010002000340000000002051000000300601007000800105008000000160900000000072000900010 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2008-10-18+02:55:00-0000 JPF
........X..X..X.X..X..X.X.....X...X...X..X...X.....X....XX...X..X..X....X.....X.. 001700000020001600300000080500100040000020000090003007080000001007400000000002900 2.0/1.2/1.2 d 2008-10-19+03:15:00-0000 Pat
...........X..X.XX..X..X.XX..X..X.XX.X..X....X..X.......X..X.XX.X..X....X..X..... 001000200020103040300000001040305060000000000050708020800000009090502010007000300 2.0/1.2/1.2 f 2008-10-06+14:50:00-0000 Mauricio
........X..X..X..X.X..X..X......X..X.X.X.....X.X...X......X..X...X..XX...X.X..... 005900000010002300300000050800500060000000009030009004090000007004600000000031200 1.5/1.2/1.2 d 2008-11-03+08:43:00-0000 coloin
...........X..X.XX..X..X.XX..X..X.XX.X..X....X..X..X....X..X.XX.X..X....X..X..X.. 100000002030040050005607800004205300000000000001804700002309500040020090500000008 1.2/1.2/1.2 hv 2008-11-07+05:15:00-0000 m_b_metcalf
.....X..X....X..X...XX..X....X..XX...X......XX..X...X...XX....X.X...X.X.X...X.X.. 000007040009800100010020008050000010002040003900000800020005400300900005001070060 1.5/1.2/1.2 d 2008-05-05+23:59:00-0000 tarek
.....X..X..X.....X.X..X.XX...X.XX.X...XX....XXX.X......XX..XX..X....X..XX..XX.... 001020030340005020005000604030070000400608009000010060804000100050700083090080200 2.0/1.2/1.2 r 2008-11-17+19:02:00-0000 Mauricio
.......XX..X..XX...X..X.X.....X....X..X..X...XX...X.X..X..X.....X.X.X..XX......X. 000001020100000300023400100200010400000204000005060007002003680001000005050700000 2.0/1.2/1.2 r 2008-11-20+14:42:00-0000 Mauricio
........X.......X...X..XX....X..X..X.X..X....X..X..X....X..X.X..X..X....X..X..X.. 001002300060080020700000009000400000002070500000008000800000002040050070005300100 1.5/1.2/1.2 p 2008-12-18+11:30:00-0000 coloin
.....X..X..X...XX..X..X..X....X...XX.X..X..X.X.....X....X..X.X.X..X...X.XX..XXX.X 000001020100230000004050600700010080056702340010080002003040500000067008070800000 1.2/1.2/1.2 r 2009-01-07+15:02:00-0000 Mauricio
.....X..X....X..X...X...X....X..X....X......XX..X.......X..XX...X...X..XX..XX..X. 100002300000040010000500006000010070003407800050020000600008000010060000005300004 1.2/1.2/1.2 p 2009-01-17+03:43:00-0000 m_b_metcalf
.......XX..X..X.XX.X..X.X....X..X....X..X..XXX..X.......X..X....X..X.X..X..X..... 005000200070090040800000003600000005050704090002000800001307600080040030000805000 2.3/2.0/2.0 v 2009-01-20+10:13:00-0000 tarek
........X..X..X.X..X..X.X.........X...XXX....XX...X.........X....X..X.X.X..X....X 000008050020001000001200300400000070009020100050000008008005900000900060010400000 1.5/1.2/1.2 p 2009-01-15+16:17:00-0000 coloin
.......XX.....XX.X..X...XX.....X...X..XX.....XX.X......X.....X.X....X...X..XX.... 000001002003000040560000070000082100000409000002150000070000038090000600100200000 1.5/1.5/1.5 p 2009-01-19+20:57:00-0000 Mauricio
.......XX.......XX..X..XX....X..X.XX.X..X....X..X.......X..XX...X..X....X..X..... 000104000000507000003080200070000050001806700200000003100000006008040100020000070 2.3/2.0/2.0 v 2009-02-14+10:17:00-0000 tarek
.......XX..X..X....X..X.X....X..X....X..X..XXX..X.......X..X....X..X.X..X..X..... 000705000020030040100000005006000700050802030300000009900000004010040020007000300 1.5/1.2/1.2 v 2009-02-14+10:27:00-0000 tarek
...........X.XX.XX.XX..X.XX...X...XX..X.X....XX..X...X.X...X....X.XX..X.X......XX 000102030100000400023004500402603007000000000300701204007800140008000009010206000 2.0/1.2/1.2 r 2009-03-02+06:11:00-0000 Mauricio
.......XX.....XX.X..X...XX...X..X..X.X..X....X..X.......X..X.X..X..X....X..X..... 030000006700000090001004200000015400000302000005860000002900100060000004300000070 1.7/1.2/1.2 da 2009-02-14+10:41:00-0000 tarek
........X..X..X....X..X...X........X..X..XXX..X..X......X..X....X..X.XX.X..X..... 000090000007406900080000070200000001090105060004000300050010090009000700000040000 1.5/1.2/1.2 v 2009-02-17+10:34:00-0000 tarek
..............X..X.XX.X..X.....X..X..XXX..X..X....X..X....X..X.X........X..X..X.. 700020004009704600010000030600000002080503040000000000002050900030000010000060000 2.0/1.5/1.5 v 2009-02-17+10:35:00-0000 tarek
...........X..X..X..X.X..X......X..X....X..X.XX.X..X.......X..X..X......XX.X..X.. 000030000001405600080000090400000008020000060003901400070040080100050003000000000 2.0/1.2/1.2 v 2009-02-17+10:37:00-0000 tarek
...........X..X..X.X..X..X.......X....X..X..X.X..X..X....X.......X..X..X.X..X..X. 010002003400500060007000000030001006000000000600700050000000100080003002500600070 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2009-04-19+18:50:00-0000 m_b_metcalf
........X..X..X.X..X..X.X.......X.....X.X.X...X.X...X...X..X....X....X..X..X...X. 000900040002000600010020003600700090001050200000006000020010030800600700005000000 1.5/1.2/1.2 d 2009-04-25+22:39:00-0000 coloin
.................X..X..XXX...X..X.....X..X..X.X..X...X.X..X.....X..X.XX.X..X..... 000000000000080000007603200060000010800000005020904030006000900004030700050010080 2.0/1.5/1.5 v 2009-02-17+10:38:00-0000 tarek
........X..X..X.X..X..X.X.......X.X..X..X....X..X..X....X.X..X..X.X.....X....XX.. 000500060002000800010020003500300070008060200000008000090010040600200700004000001 1.5/1.2/1.2 d 2009-04-27+20:46:00-0000 coloin
.....X..X....X..X...X...X.X..X..X..X.X..X....X..X.......X..XX...X.X.....X...X..X. 002000007050006040800000600000003050000070004060809000003000700040500010700010008 1.2/1.2/1.2 d 2009-05-26+09:38:00-0000 gsf
.............XX.XX.XX..X..X.............XX.XX.XX..X..X.XX......X...X..X.X...X..X. 000000000067000580040702030009070400000306000005010800070105020028000950000000000 2.3/2.0/2.0 f 2009-02-28+07:11:00-0000 tarek
.....X..X....X..X...X..XX....X..X.X..X..X....X..X.......X..X.XX.X....X..X..X..... 000006001070000030008240900002008300003070000100500000009300200010000040600000005 1.2/1.2/1.2 d 2009-06-06+10:42:00-0000 gsf
.....X..X....X..X...X...X.......X..X.X.....X.X.XX.......X.X.....X.X..X..X..X..... 000003009060000010007240000004002300005080000800900000000600700090000030300000008 2.0/1.2/1.2 d 2009-06-26+13:17:00-0000 Pat
........X.....XXX...X...XX...X.XX....X.X.....X.X.X..X..X.X.....X...XXX..X.X..X... 508000700060000010400005302000207900000030000009801000702400001050000040001000508 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2009-02-28+07:30:00-0000 tarek
.....X..X....X..X...XX..X....X.....X.X.....X.X..X..X....XX......X..X....X....XX.. 000008400010020030000700001008100000030006000700050020100000700060004080005000006 1.5/1.2/1.2 d 2009-05-22+13:24:00-0000 coloin
........X..X.XX...XX.X...........XX...XX....X.X...X.X.......XX...XX....XX...X.X.. 000703000001050600020800003007000098000040000640000700800001020004060900000209000 1.2/1.2/1.2 p 2009-07-24+20:53:00-0000 gsf
........X.....X.X...X.X.X....X..X.X..X......XX.....X....X.X..X..X.X....XX....XX.. 100002300080040070009300002003000000070004000500060080900000200040008050007000003 1.5/1.2/1.2 d 2009-08-02+20:50:00-0000 coloin
..............X.XX..X....XX..X.XX....X.X.....X.X.X...X.X.X.....X...XX.X.X.X..X... 108000200020000050500004806000209100000000000009508000402900008010000030003000601 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2009-02-28+07:48:00-0000 tarek
...........X..X.XX..X..X.XX.X..X.....X..X.X..X.XX.X....X..X.....X..X.X..X.XX.X... 060000030040507080708000409000302000002000700000604000106000508080705020030000010 2.0/1.2/1.2 hv 2007-12-11+15:46:21-0000 g.r.emlin
........X..X..X.X..X..X.X.......X.X...XX....XX...X.X....X..X..X.X..X....X.....X.. 000000100020003040005060007000100080006070500030008000800050900060700030007000002 1.5/1.2/1.2 d 2009-09-21+21:14:00-0000 JPF
........X....XX.X..XX...X.......X......X..X.XX.X.X......X..X..X.X..X...XX....XX.. 001023004050400001600000000000500070080010050010006000000000003500007040400380200 1.2/1.2/1.2 p 2009-09-27+16:22:00-0000 m_b_metcalf
.......XX..X..XX....X..XX...X..X.....X..X..XXX.XX.X....X..X.....X..X..XXX.XX.X... 010000020304000501020304060007020100000408000006030800040705010509000207060000050 1.5/1.2/1.2 f 2009-09-23+20:02:00-0000 Pat
........X..X..X..X.X..X..X....X.......XX..X..X...X..X...X..XX...X..X....X......X. 000000704010002030002080000000200060008050100060007000000090800020400070504000000 1.5/1.2/1.2 p 2009-10-25+23:29:00-0000 coloin
.....X..X..X....X..X..X.X....X..X..X.X..X....X..X..X....X..X.X..X..X....X..X..X.. 001000200030004050600070008000200060007060800020003000100050006040800030002000500 1.5/1.2/1.2 da 2009-09-21+21:14:00-0000 JPF
.....X..X....X..X...XX..X....X..XX...X..X..X.X..X....X..XX...X..X..X.X..X....X..X 001002003020010400400500060006000007040080020500000900010009006003050090600700300 2.3/1.2/1.2 da 2009-11-28+11:49:00-0000 Mauricio
........X.......X...X..XX....X..X..X.X..X....X..X..X....X..X.X..X..X.X..X..X..... 005000009090008070600040800000004000010020050000900000001030008080100090400000600 2.0/1.2/1.2 p 2009-11-27+04:03:00-0000 tarek
..X..X..X.X..X..X.X..X..X....X..X..X.X..X..X.X..X..X....X..X..X.X..X..X.X..X..X.X 005008007060070090700100500001003009030010080900206300003002004010050020200900800 2.3/1.2/1.2 d 2009-11-08+16:02:00-0000 Pat

by **JPF** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:27 pm

::: comment :::

champagne wrote:
tarek wrote:...
Code: Select all
X . X | . . X | . . X . X . | . X . | . X . X . X | X . . | X . . -------+-------+------- . . X | X . X | . . X . X . | . X . | . X . X . . | X . X | X . . -------+-------+------- . . X | . . X | X . X . X . | . X . | . X . X . . | X . . | X . X
33 clues
a subset of that pattern has been played in game 40.
...
I would have bet that more subsets of that pattern could have been played, I only found game 40.

Actually, based on gremlin's list, here are the patterns included (up to isomorphism) in the tarek's one :

Code: Select all: ........X..X..X....X..X......X.X..X..X...XX..X..X.......X.X.X...X...X.X.X..X..... ........X..X..X.X..X..X.X..........X..X..X.X..X..X.X....X..X.X..X..X.X..X..X..... ........X.....X.X.....X.X.....X....X..X..X....X..X..X...X.X..X..X....X..X..X....X .....X..X....X..X...X...X.......X..X.X.....X.X..X.......X...X...X..X..X.X..X..... .......XX.......XX..X..XX....X..XX...X..X....X..X.......X..XX...X..X....X..X..... X....X..X..X.X..X..X.X..X....X.X..X..X.X..X..X....X..X..X.X..X..X.X..X..X....X..X .....X..X....X..X...XX..X....X...X...X...X..XX...X..X...XX......X...X..XX...X..X. ........X..X..X.X..X..X.X..........X..X..X.X..X..X.X....X..X.X..X..X.X..X..X....X ...........X..X..X.X..X..X....X..X....X..X.X..X..X...X...X..X....X.X...X.X...X.X. .......XX.....XX....X.X...X..X.X.....X....X..X..X...X...XX...X..X...X...X...X.... ........X.....X.XX..X.X........X.X...X.......XX.X........X....X..X.X.X...X...X... .....X..X....X..X...XX..X....XX..X...X......XX....X.X...XX..X...X...X.X.X...X.... ...........X..X..X.X..X..X.......X....X..X..X.X..X..X....X.......X..X..X.X..X..X. .....X..X....X..X...XX..X....X.....X.X.....X.X..X..X....XX......X..X....X....XX.. ........X.....X.X...X.X.X....X..X.X..X......XX.....X....X.X..X..X.X....XX....XX.. ..X..X..X.X..X..X.X..X..X....X..X..X.X..X..X.X..X..X....X..X..X.X..X..X.X..X..X.X

JPF

by **g.r.emlin** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:55 am

::: game 0099 start at 2010-01-21+19:00:00-0000 :::

Code: Select all: dealer status candidate patterns (via private message to g.r.emlin) 1 Mauricio 2 tarek 15 JPF 87 g.r.emlin past patterns 1 claudiarabia 1 pseudocoup 3 g.r.emlin 12 Pat 18 JPF 1 draco 1 ravel 10 gsf 15 coloin 19 TTHsieh 1 Eioru 1 wintder 10 m_b_metcalf 17 Mauricio 20 tarek

by **Pat** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:44 am

champagne wrote:
a subset of that pattern has been played in game 40
Highest diamond 10.6
Highest rating 10.7

yes -- and that subset was fully diagonal

by **Pat** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:47 am

m_b_metcalf wrote:
Pat wrote:29 is the maximum for the game

i'm willing to raise this limit

but finding any minimal puzzles is quite difficult
when the pattern has so many clues

I imposed this pattern on a million random grids (they sometimes come in useful). About half yielded a valid, non-minimal puzzle. No puzzle was minimal.

tarek

by **m_b_metcalf** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:54 am

Pat wrote:so perhaps we should waive minimality for one game ?

Gasp, all that code to recompile

Regards,

Mike Metcalf

by **tarek** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:06 am

::: comment :::

Pat wrote:
m_b_metcalf wrote:
Pat wrote:29 is the maximum for the game

i'm willing to raise this limit

but finding any minimal puzzles is quite difficult
when the pattern has so many clues

I imposed this pattern on a million random grids (they sometimes come in useful). About half yielded a valid, non-minimal puzzle. No puzzle was minimal.
so perhaps we should waive minimality for one game ?
just to settle the question whether tarek's pattern can produce high diamonds---

A special game, I like that .... an Easter/Christmas special

...

You know if that pattern shows high diamonds then its minimal puzzles would be interesting

tarek

by **Pat** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:43 am

m_b_metcalf

10.x

by **m_b_metcalf** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:57 pm

Pat wrote:
hey m_b_metcalf, did you perhaps save those half-million non-minimal puzzles?
we could start rating them,
that would give us some idea of the chances for 10.x

No (they weren't minimal!). But here's a list of ERs from the first 1000 (ignore the second column).

[edit] And I agree with JPF's comment in the next post!

Regards,

Mike Metcalf

Code: Select all: 1.2/1.2/1.2 1 1.5/1.2/1.2 703 1.7/1.2/1.2 50 2.0/1.2/1.2 500 2.3/1.2/1.2 374 2.6/1.2/1.2 583 2.8/1.2/1.2 394 3.0/1.2/1.2 216 3.2/1.2/1.2 332 3.6/1.2/1.2 157 3.8/1.5/1.5 943 4.2/1.2/1.2 412 4.5/1.2/1.2 61 5.6/1.2/1.2 681 6.6/1.2/1.2 658 6.8/1.2/1.2 800 7.1/1.2/1.2 683 7.2/1.2/1.2 137 7.5/1.2/1.2 413

by **JPF** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:00 pm

Pat wrote:so perhaps we should waive minimality for one game ?

I hope it's a joke.

It would be a very regressive move to produce non-minimal puzzles in our Forum.

I would suggest to open a thread to look for minimal puzzles in the tarek's pattern or to disprove their existence.

JPF

by **Pat** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:50 pm

"or to disprove their existence" ?
i bet there are some minimal puzzles---

by **Pat** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:53 pm

tarek

by **champagne** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:10 pm

Pat wrote:
my problem is that tarek expects his pattern to produce high diamonds,
where i suspect it won't even produce a plain 10.x/1.2/1.2

how can we settle this question?

tarek could bring some examples of such diamonds

chgampagne

The New Sudoku Players' Forum

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