The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[champagne]

Code: Select all

.....9.87
....8.654
...6..39.
..2..5..3
.4.....1.
3..4..9..
.76..1...
258.6....
13.2..... ED=9.7/9.7/9.4

[Patrice]

Code: Select all

. . . . . 1 . 2 3
. . . . 4 . 5 6 1
. . . 5 . . 7 4 .
. . 8 . . 2 . . 5
. 1 . . . . . 7 .
3 . . 8 . . 1 . .
. 6 4 . . 3 . . .
5 3 9 . 8 . . . .
8 2 . 6 . . . . .   ED=1.7/1.5/1.5

Regards

[champagne]

::: comment :::


10.5/10.5/9.2


this seems to be the puzzle of Mauricio

which means it should have been found much earlier.
I personally gave up after a disappointing negative symmetry of given in diagonal mode

champagne

[coloin]

:::comment:::
Yes it may well be. Good game. I dont think ronk meant badly with his comment.
I think it might be a good idea if at an appropriate time the leader/and/or the person with the highest rating puzzle doesnt post a new puzzle or a higher rating puzzle. It might make for a closer game - which is what a good game is.

anyway my main point is on the diagonal pattern analysis.

Based on the assumption that there will be probably be higher rated puzzles from patterns which actually have more puzzles in them......
..... it might be possible to look at all the patterns which can be derived from the 27-clue puzzles with only diagonal patterns here

if a pattern can be shown to be originatable from more of the 15 [that i found only] ED 27-clue diagonal patterns than others - then this pattern might have more puzzles. I posted a puzzle which was derivable from the only pattern of the 15 which isnt symmetric - and as this pattern had at least x2 puzzles than others [because of the lack of symmetry] - the 24 clue pattern did give good results - ie it had high ratable puzzles might have been game 125 - not sure though].

Many of the puzzles in the patterns game are purely derivable from diagonal clues.

C

[champagne]

::: comment :::

:::comment:::
Yes it may well be. Good game. I dont think ronk meant badly with his comment.
I think it might be a good idea if at an appropriate time the leader/and/or the person with the highest rating puzzle doesnt post a new puzzle or a higher rating puzzle. It might make for a closer game - which is what a good game is.
....
C

Hi coloin,

Interesting post.

I'll answer, but I think better to do it in the thread dedicated to pattern game strategy to avoid pollution in that thread.

I need more time to prepare something of value. (I hope so)


Just 2 comments in direct.

1) the puzzle is a central symmetry of given. Diagonal symmetry did not give (in my program) anything of value.

2) I am not a native English speaker and my knowledge of English is poor. Each sentence using Idiomatic construction or non common language words can be misinterpreted.

cheers

champagne

[Patrice]

::: comment :::

Hi coloin,

Can you explain what you mean by originatable ?

if a pattern can be shown to be originatable from more of the 15 [that i found only] ED 27-clue diagonal patterns than others...

I'm very new to these Sudoku knowledge...

Best regards
Patice

[Patrice]

::: comment :::
The game should be closed now...

Gremlin is again in week-end ?

Regards
Patrice

[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0155 idle 2011-11-06+16:22:00-0000 -- with no further entries the game will close at 2011-11-06+19:00:00-0000 :::

Code: Select all

game 0155 2011-11-02+16:00:00-0000 duration 2d17h dealer Mauricio pages 1102-1114 (open) 8 players
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    1.2/1.2/1.2 gsf            4.6/4.6/3.4 champagne      7.1/7.1/7.1 champagne      8.8/8.8/8.8 Patrice
    1.5/1.5/1.5 gsf            4.7/4.7/3.4 Patrice        7.2/7.2/7.2 champagne      8.9/8.9/8.9 Patrice
    1.7/1.5/1.5 Patrice        4.8/3.4/2.8 Patrice        7.3/7.3/7.3 m_b_metcalf    9.0/9.0/9.0 Patrice
    2.0/2.0/2.0 joel64         5.0/5.0/3.4 Patrice        7.4/7.4/7.4 Patrice        9.1/9.1/9.1 Patrice
    2.3/2.3/2.3 gsf            5.2/2.0/2.0 champagne      7.5/7.5/7.5 joel64         9.2/9.2/9.2 Pat
    2.5/2.5/2.5 joel64         5.4/5.4/3.0 joel64         7.6/7.6/7.5 champagne      9.3/9.3/9.3 JPF
    2.6/2.5/2.5 champagne      5.6/5.0/3.4 champagne      7.7/7.7/7.5 champagne      9.4/9.4/9.4 JPF
    2.8/2.8/2.8 joel64         5.7/4.5/3.4 Patrice        7.8/7.8/7.5 champagne      9.5/9.5/9.4 joel64
    3.0/3.0/3.0 champagne      5.8/3.4/2.8 Patrice        7.9/7.9/7.5 Patrice        9.6/9.6/9.2 joel64
    3.2/3.2/3.0 champagne      5.9/1.2/1.2 champagne      8.0/8.0/7.5 champagne      9.7/9.7/9.4 champagne
    3.4/3.4/3.4 Patrice        6.2/6.2/6.2 Patrice        8.1/8.1/7.2 champagne      9.8/9.8/9.4 Patrice
    3.6/3.6/3.6 Patrice        6.5/6.5/3.0 champagne      8.2/8.2/8.2 Patrice        9.9/9.9/9.4 joel64
    3.8/3.4/3.4 champagne      6.6/6.6/6.6 champagne      8.3/8.3/8.3 Patrice      10.0/10.0/9.1 champagne
    4.0/3.6/3.6 champagne      6.7/6.7/6.7 Patrice        8.4/8.4/8.4 Patrice       10.3/1.2/1.2 champagne
    4.2/4.2/4.2 joel64         6.8/6.8/3.0 Patrice        8.5/8.5/8.5 Patrice      10.5/10.5/9.2 champagne
    4.4/4.4/4.4 Patrice        6.9/6.9/3.0 joel64         8.6/8.6/8.6 Patrice
    4.5/4.5/3.6 champagne      7.0/7.0/7.0 champagne      8.7/8.7/8.7 Patrice
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    open ratings : 4.9 5.1 6.0 6.1 10.1 10.2 10.4 10.6-11.4

       submitter  entries  score  response  notes
     -----------  -------  -----  --------  -----
        Mauricio        0      0         0  dealer
             Pat        1    114     7m59s  diamond
     m_b_metcalf        1    124    10m25s  rare-0,rare-2,diamond
             gsf        3    296    47m09s  rare-0,rare-1*5,rare-2*3
             JPF        2    327    12m59s  diamond*2
          joel64       10   1255     1h37m  rare-0*4,rare-1*2,diamond*4,pearl*5
         Patrice       25   3660    21m06s  rare-0*3,rare-1,rare-2*3,diamond*16,pearl*5,last-entry=440
       champagne       24   4301    24m31s  rare-0*3,rare-1*3,rare-2*2,diamond*5,pearl*12,highest-rating=821,bad-submission,dup-rating
     -----------  -------  -----            -----
               8       66  10077            rare-0*12,rare-1*11,rare-2*9,diamond*29,pearl*22


[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0155 closed (idle for 1d10h) -- preliminary results :::

Code: Select all

game 0155 2011-11-02+16:00:00-0000 duration 2d17h dealer Mauricio pages 1102-1114 (final) 8 players
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    1.2/1.2/1.2 gsf            4.6/4.6/3.4 champagne      7.1/7.1/7.1 champagne      8.8/8.8/8.8 Patrice
    1.5/1.5/1.5 gsf            4.7/4.7/3.4 Patrice        7.2/7.2/7.2 champagne      8.9/8.9/8.9 Patrice
    1.7/1.5/1.5 Patrice        4.8/3.4/2.8 Patrice        7.3/7.3/7.3 m_b_metcalf    9.0/9.0/9.0 Patrice
    2.0/2.0/2.0 joel64         5.0/5.0/3.4 Patrice        7.4/7.4/7.4 Patrice        9.1/9.1/9.1 Patrice
    2.3/2.3/2.3 gsf            5.2/2.0/2.0 champagne      7.5/7.5/7.5 joel64         9.2/9.2/9.2 Pat
    2.5/2.5/2.5 joel64         5.4/5.4/3.0 joel64         7.6/7.6/7.5 champagne      9.3/9.3/9.3 JPF
    2.6/2.5/2.5 champagne      5.6/5.0/3.4 champagne      7.7/7.7/7.5 champagne      9.4/9.4/9.4 JPF
    2.8/2.8/2.8 joel64         5.7/4.5/3.4 Patrice        7.8/7.8/7.5 champagne      9.5/9.5/9.4 joel64
    3.0/3.0/3.0 champagne      5.8/3.4/2.8 Patrice        7.9/7.9/7.5 Patrice        9.6/9.6/9.2 joel64
    3.2/3.2/3.0 champagne      5.9/1.2/1.2 champagne      8.0/8.0/7.5 champagne      9.7/9.7/9.4 champagne
    3.4/3.4/3.4 Patrice        6.2/6.2/6.2 Patrice        8.1/8.1/7.2 champagne      9.8/9.8/9.4 Patrice
    3.6/3.6/3.6 Patrice        6.5/6.5/3.0 champagne      8.2/8.2/8.2 Patrice        9.9/9.9/9.4 joel64
    3.8/3.4/3.4 champagne      6.6/6.6/6.6 champagne      8.3/8.3/8.3 Patrice      10.0/10.0/9.1 champagne
    4.0/3.6/3.6 champagne      6.7/6.7/6.7 Patrice        8.4/8.4/8.4 Patrice       10.3/1.2/1.2 champagne
    4.2/4.2/4.2 joel64         6.8/6.8/3.0 Patrice        8.5/8.5/8.5 Patrice      10.5/10.5/9.2 champagne
    4.4/4.4/4.4 Patrice        6.9/6.9/3.0 joel64         8.6/8.6/8.6 Patrice
    4.5/4.5/3.6 champagne      7.0/7.0/7.0 champagne      8.7/8.7/8.7 Patrice
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    open ratings : 4.9 5.1 6.0 6.1 10.1 10.2 10.4 10.6-11.4

       submitter  entries  score  response  notes
     -----------  -------  -----  --------  -----
        Mauricio        0      0         0  dealer
             Pat        1    114     7m59s  diamond
     m_b_metcalf        1    124    10m25s  rare-0,rare-2,diamond
             gsf        3    296    47m09s  rare-0,rare-1*5,rare-2*3
             JPF        2    327    12m59s  diamond*2
          joel64       10   1255     1h37m  rare-0*4,rare-1*2,diamond*4,pearl*5
         Patrice       25   3660    21m06s  rare-0*3,rare-1,rare-2*3,diamond*16,pearl*5,last-entry=440
       champagne       24   4301    24m31s  rare-0*3,rare-1*3,rare-2*2,diamond*5,pearl*12,highest-rating=821,bad-submission,dup-rating
     -----------  -------  -----            -----
               8       66  10077            rare-0*12,rare-1*11,rare-2*9,diamond*29,pearl*22


[champagne]

:::more:::

Code: Select all

.....9.87....7.659...6..43...4..2..8.8.....1.5..7..9...46..3...853.1....91.4..... ED=5.4/5.4/3.4


[Mauricio]

:::more:::

Code: Select all

.....1.23....3.456...4..17...7..5..4.5.....8.9..8..2...23..9...689.1....17.3..... ED=10.2/1.2/1.2


[Patrice]

::: more :::

Code: Select all

.....1.23....4.567...7..41...3..8..6.2.....7.5..4..2...34..5...976.1....25.3.....  ED=6.8/6.8/3.4
.....1.23....4.516...3..47...5..7..2.4.....8.8..6..1...51..8...928.3....36.5.....  ED=6.9/6.9/3.6


Best regards
Patrice

[Mauricio]

:::comment:::
For completeness, the puzzle I based the pattern is

Code: Select all

+-------+-------+-------+
| . . . | . . 4 | 8 9 . |
| . . . | . 9 . | 2 3 1 |
| . . . | 2 . . | . 6 4 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 4 | 1 . . | . . 8 |
| . 9 . | . . . | . 1 . |
| 2 . . | . . 9 | 6 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 6 4 . | . . 8 | . . . |
| 9 7 8 | . 1 . | . . . |
| . 1 2 | 6 . . | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+ ED=9.7/1.2/1.2


[m_b_metcalf]

::: comment :::

Historically, Mauricio only posts patterns where there is a high-rated puzzle. Who will find it ?

I thought it could be a symmetry of given, but nothing came with my generator

I've just returned from being away from home for over two weeks and was intruiged enough to look into the symmetry of givens. These three examples were interesting:

Code: Select all

 . . . . . 1 . 2 3
 . . . . 2 . 4 5 6
 . . . 4 . . 7 1 .
 . . 5 . . 3 . . 4
 . 6 . . . . . 8 .
 7 . . 8 . . 5 . .  9 out 14 identical pairs [c(i,j) = c(10-i,10-j)]
 . 1 7 . . 6 . . .
 6 5 4 . 9 . . . .
 3 2 . 1 . . . . .  ED=9.1/9.0/7.3

 . . . . . 3 . 8 5
 . . . . 7 . 9 4 3
 . . . 4 . . 2 6 .
 . . 7 . . 8 . . 6
 . 1 . . . . . 9 .
 5 . . 2 . . 3 . .  9 out of 14 complementary pairs [c(i,j) + c(10-i,10-j) = 10]
 . 5 8 . . 4 . . .  2 identical pairs (4), and 3 matching pairs (5 and 6).
 7 4 1 . 3 . . . .
 6 2 . 7 . . . . .  ED=9.4/9.4/9.4

 . . . . . 2 . 7 3
 . . . . 3 . 6 9 2
 . . . 9 . . 8 5 .
 . . 8 . . 6 . . 5
 . 9 . . . . . 1 .
 5 . . 4 . . 2 . .   14 complementary pairs
 . 5 2 . . 1 . . .
 8 1 4 . 7 . . . .
 7 3 . 8 . . . . .  ED=9.0/9.0/8.4


Regards,

Mike Metcalf

[champagne]

::: comment :::

::: comment :::

I've just returned from being away from home for over two weeks and was intruiged enough to look into the symmetry of givens. These three examples were interesting:

Mike Metcalf

my generator only works on

3 singles + 3 pairs in diagonal mode
1 single + 4 pairs in central mode.

I found
no puzzle with main diagonal symmetry
2 puzzles with anti diagonal symmetry (from memory)
1461 puzzles with central symmetry

in that last lot 101 puzzles were diamonds and one rated 10.5

here after some diamonds from that lot

In one of my fist participations in the pattern game, I made a successful search of that kind and got the highest at the very beginning of the game.
The search has been disappointing in the next games.

champagne

Code: Select all

.....1.32....3.579...5..18...9..6..5.8.....9.4..7..8...91..4...864.2....32.1.....   10.5   10.5   9.2
.....1.35....7.619...6..24...2..5..6.8.....9.7..4..3...53..7...817.6....42.1.....   9.4   9.4   9.4
.....1.35....7.691...3..47...6..9..4.3.....2.5..8..7...65..2...187.6....42.1.....   9.3   9.3   9.3
.....1.35....7.918...9..26...7..3..2.4.....5.3..2..6...73..8...918.6....42.1.....   9.2   9.2   9.2
.....1.35....7.981...8..42...3..6..8.6.....7.9..7..2...35..9...198.6....42.1.....   9.1   9.1   9.1
.....1.35....5.769...3..18...4..9..6.3.....2.7..8..5...91..2...876.4....42.1.....   9   9   9
.....1.35....4.792...5..61...3..8..6.6.....7.7..9..2...17..4...386.5....42.1.....   8.9   8.9   8.9
.....1.35....3.749...4..16...2..8..6.6.....7.7..9..3...71..5...856.2....42.1.....   8.8   8.8   8.8
.....1.35....2.174...7..96...2..5..9.4.....5.8..4..3...78..6...561.3....42.1.....   8.5   8.5   8.5
.....1.35....5.798...3..16...4..8..6.3.....2.7..9..5...71..2...986.4....42.1.....   8.4   8.4   8.4
.....1.35....7.291...9..48...2..7..9.6.....7.8..6..3...95..8...183.6....42.1.....   8.3   8.3   8.3
.....1.35....7.169...5..27...2..9..7.8.....9.6..8..3...63..4...871.6....42.1.....   7.3   7.3   7.3
.....1.35....5.176...6..92...4..2..9.7.....6.8..3..5...38..7...761.4....42.1.....   7.2   7.2   7.2
.....1.35....3.741...7..92...2..5..9.6.....7.8..4..3...38..6...156.2....42.1.....   7.1   7.1   7.1
.....1.35....4.769...5..18...7..3..8.8.....9.9..2..6...91..4...876.5....42.1.....   6.6   6.6   6.6
.....1.35....7.942...9..16...5..3..9.4.....5.8..2..4...71..8...358.6....42.1.....   3.4   3.4   3.4
.....1.35....7.216...6..94...5..8..9.4.....5.8..9..4...58..7...713.6....42.1.....   2.8   2.8   2.8
.....1.32....2.517...5..96...6..7..9.4.....5.8..6..7...78..4...614.3....32.1.....   2   2   2