Jigsaw + Windoku + X

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Re: Jigsaw + Windoku + X

Postby urhegyi » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:24 pm

The search for new layouts continues:
arriving at 9 clues JSWX example:
Image
attention windoku windows not marked on picture
Code: Select all
7.......35.......4......................2......................1.......98.......6 444111122444111222544112266543332266555333666558833376558899776888999777889999777

Edit:
The one I posted before with 10 clues was much harder, but I posted thisone for the nice form and the fact it has only 9 clues the numbers from 1 to 9!
Looks easy but will know more after trying it by hand. When looking at the number of eliminations by naked/hidden quad it can be more difficult to solve by hand then I thought.
This can be an interesting one to keep with a nice solvepath?
Code: Select all
Eliminated candidates per Method and per Sudoku

Method   \  Sudoku |   SER |     1
                   |-------|------
Not counted elims  |     0 |    98
Naked Singles      |   0.1 |    18
Hidden Singles     |   0.2 |   127
Naked Single  [1]  |   2.5 |     2
Naked Pair    [2]  |     3 |    13
Naked Quad    [4]  |     5 |     6
Hidden Quad   [5]  |   5.4 |    42
Hidden Pair   [7]  |   3.4 |     6
Locked Singles[2]  |   2.8 |    90
Locked Singles[3]  |   2.9 |    20
Locked Singles[4]  |     3 |    20
                   |-------|------
Eliminated Cand's  |   442 |   442
Sum(SER * Cand's)  | 718.4 | 718.4

Initial Candidates :   442
Maximum SER rating :   5.4 - Approach
Labour rating      : 718.4 - Experimental rating

But this layout permits also very hard ones like:
Code: Select all
#1/WX/B4,JS
............7.8..............5...7..4.7...6.1..6...9..............3.6............
444111122444111222544112266543332266555333666558833376558899776888999777889999777

Code: Select all
Eliminated candidates per Method and per Sudoku

Method   \  Sudoku |   SER |     1
                   |-------|------
Not counted elims  |     0 |    86
Naked Singles      |   0.1 |    34
Hidden Singles     |   0.2 |   146
Naked Pair    [2]  |     3 |    10
Naked Triple  [3]  |   3.6 |    10
Hidden Quad   [5]  |   5.4 |     4
Locked Singles[2]  |   2.8 |    76
Locked Singles[3]  |   2.9 |    13
Locked Singles[4]  |     3 |     8
Locked Singles[5]  |   3.1 |     1
WXYZ Wing     [4]  |   5.5 |     5
VWXYZ Wing    [5]  |   6.3 |     1
Turbot-fish   [4]  |   4.2 |     5
                   |-------|------
Eliminated Cand's  |   399 |   399
Sum(SER * Cand's)  | 452.6 | 452.6

Initial Candidates :   399
Maximum SER rating :   6.3 - Approach
Labour rating      : 452.6 - Experimental rating

Can the rating of 6.3 be confirmed by SE?
Last edited by urhegyi on Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Posts: 339
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JSWX SE Ratings

Postby 1to9only » Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:10 pm

Code: Select all
.6.4.2.8..............1...................................3..............2.8.7.9. 111222233111123338114422238444552338475555538477655888476668899477769999776666999 JSWX ED=7.9/7.9/2.9

7.......35.......4......................2......................1.......98.......6 444111122444111222544112266543332266555333666558833376558899776888999777889999777 JSWX ED=7.7/7.7/2.8

............7.8..............5...7..4.7...6.1..6...9..............3.6............ 444111122444111222544112266543332266555333666558833376558899776888999777889999777 JSWX ED=7.1/1.5/1.5

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Re: Jigsaw + Windoku + X

Postby Hajime » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:05 am

urhegyi wrote:
Code: Select all
7.......35.......4......................2......................1.......98.......6 444111122444111222544112266543332266555333666558833376558899776888999777889999777

Edit:
The one I posted before with 10 clues was much harder, but I posted thisone for the nice form and the fact it has only 9 clues the numbers from 1 to 9!

Indeed a very nice layout/puzzle with all 9 givens symmetrical.
And when omitting the naked/hidden quad it is still possible to solve with basic methods and locked singles (generalized intersections).
Code: Select all
Method   \  Sudoku |   SER |     1
                   |-------|------
Not counted elims  |     0 |    98
Naked Singles      |   0.1 |    18
Hidden Singles     |   0.2 |   127
Naked Single  [1]  |   2.5 |     2
Naked Pair    [2]  |     3 |    19
Naked Triple  [3]  |   3.6 |     4
Hidden Pair   [7]  |   3.4 |     8
Locked Singles[2]  |   2.8 |   126
Locked Singles[3]  |   2.9 |    20
Locked Singles[4]  |     3 |    20
                   |-------|------
Eliminated Cand's  |   442 |   442
Sum(SER * Cand's)  | 601.6 | 601.6

Initial Candidates :   442
Maximum SER rating :   3.6 <- Approach
Labour rating      : 601.6 <- Experimental rating
Time needed        : 00:00:02.204


The elimination of candidates is shifted to locked singles.
Especially the singles locked in 4 ! houses that eliminated 20 candidates will be hard.

Maybe that rating should not be "3" , but much higher.
What is the highest rated method in SE (with ED=7.7) ?
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Re: Jigsaw + Windoku + X

Postby 1to9only » Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:51 pm

The ED=7.7 and ED=7.9 are Nishio Forcing Chains.
The ED=7.1 is a Bidirectional Cycle.

Interestingly, the 2 in r5c5 can be removed to make an 8-clues JSWX:
Code: Select all
7.......35.......4.............................................1.......98.......6 444111122444111222544112266543332266555333666558833376558899776888999777889999777 JSWX ED=9.1/9.0/2.8

The ED=9.x are Cell/Region/Double/Conradiction Forcing Chains.
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Re: Jigsaw + Windoku + X

Postby urhegyi » Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:53 pm

Hajime wrote:
urhegyi wrote:
Code: Select all
7.......35.......4......................2......................1.......98.......6 444111122444111222544112266543332266555333666558833376558899776888999777889999777

Edit:
The one I posted before with 10 clues was much harder, but I posted thisone for the nice form and the fact it has only 9 clues the numbers from 1 to 9!

Indeed a very nice layout/puzzle with all 9 givens symmetrical.
And when omitting the naked/hidden quad it is still possible to solve with basic methods and locked singles (generalized intersections).
Code: Select all
Method   \  Sudoku |   SER |     1
                   |-------|------
Not counted elims  |     0 |    98
Naked Singles      |   0.1 |    18
Hidden Singles     |   0.2 |   127
Naked Single  [1]  |   2.5 |     2
Naked Pair    [2]  |     3 |    19
Naked Triple  [3]  |   3.6 |     4
Hidden Pair   [7]  |   3.4 |     8
Locked Singles[2]  |   2.8 |   126
Locked Singles[3]  |   2.9 |    20
Locked Singles[4]  |     3 |    20
                   |-------|------
Eliminated Cand's  |   442 |   442
Sum(SER * Cand's)  | 601.6 | 601.6

Initial Candidates :   442
Maximum SER rating :   3.6 <- Approach
Labour rating      : 601.6 <- Experimental rating
Time needed        : 00:00:02.204


The elimination of candidates is shifted to locked singles.
Especially the singles locked in 4 ! houses that eliminated 20 candidates will be hard.

Maybe that rating should not be "3" , but much higher.
What is the highest rated method in SE (with ED=7.7) ?

Even the Naked triple isn't needed:
The reduced analysis for the 9 clues variant:
Code: Select all
Eliminated candidates per Method and per Sudoku

Method   \  Sudoku |   SER |     1
                   |-------|------
Not counted elims  |     0 |    98
Naked Singles      |   0.1 |    18
Hidden Singles     |   0.2 |   127
Naked Single  [1]  |   2.5 |     6
Naked Pair    [2]  |     3 |    19
Hidden Pair   [7]  |   3.4 |     8
Locked Singles[2]  |   2.8 |   126
Locked Singles[3]  |   2.9 |    20
Locked Singles[4]  |     3 |    20
                   |-------|------
Eliminated Cand's  |   442 |   442
Sum(SER * Cand's)  | 597.2 | 597.2

Initial Candidates :   442
Maximum SER rating :   3.4 - Approach
Labour rating      : 597.2 - Experimental rating
urhegyi
 
Posts: 339
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Re: Jigsaw + Windoku + X

Postby urhegyi » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:42 pm

A very hard new example with a new layout:
Code: Select all
#1/WX/B4,JS
7.......3....................61.92.....9.3.....32.48....................5.......6
112222255111222555111125555666649999666444999766444998777434888777333888773333388

Can SE confirm the rating of 8+ found by SiSeSuSo?
Or a slightly adapted layout with an example a bit less hard as the one before:
Code: Select all
#1/WX/B4,JS
....9........3........8......4...2..8..243..5..6...7......7........6........2....
332222244333222444333121444355111664555111666555516666777789999777888999778888899

Rated 5.0 by SiseSuSo but it counts Turbot-fish as 4.2 so I guess SE will give 6.6?
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Posts: 339
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Re: JSWX SE Ratings

Postby urhegyi » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:34 pm

1to9only wrote:
Code: Select all
.6.4.2.8..............1...................................3..............2.8.7.9. 111222233111123338114422238444552338475555538477655888476668899477769999776666999 JSWX ED=7.9/7.9/2.9

7.......35.......4......................2......................1.......98.......6 444111122444111222544112266543332266555333666558833376558899776888999777889999777 JSWX ED=7.7/7.7/2.8

............7.8..............5...7..4.7...6.1..6...9..............3.6............ 444111122444111222544112266543332266555333666558833376558899776888999777889999777 JSWX ED=7.1/1.5/1.5


Using the extra hidden constraints of windoku would considerably reduce this ratings!
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Re: Jigsaw + Windoku + X

Postby Hajime » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:48 am

urhegyi wrote:Rated 5.0 by SiseSuSo but it counts Turbot-fish as 4.2 so I guess SE will give 6.6?

This is what is listed in SE Rating here
Code: Select all
    '3.6, 3.8, 4.0: Naked Triplet, Swordfish, Hidden Triplet
    '4.0-4.3: Skyscraper, 2-String Kite, Turbot Crane
    '4.2, 4.4: XY-Wing, XYZ-Wing

So Turbot Fish is about 4.2 , isn't ?
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