The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[daj95376]

if your GFF finds ALL SMALLEST FISH then I would suggest that you would integrate it in the solver (then you could remove other fish tests already implemented)

I assume that your GFF would go for 2-fish first & would display everything (basic, franken & mutant /finned & non finned) as batch search.
commit everything then proceed to the next level.
The GFF 4-fish output should essentially not change if what you claim is true.

This could be done, and it's very possble that little would change.

what complicates things slightly is that you started checking for fish before colouring/multi colouring.

I would re-order your solver 1st & put all fish last in the order (assuming that you already modified your solver to catch & eliminate in BATCH mode)........ to compare results.

That's easily done with a command line option to override the default technique order. I admit that your way presents a nice, orderly approach. However, I think Simple Sudoku set a precedent by placing X-Wing and Swordfish before Colors and Multiple Colors. Besides, I'm not sure that I'd like to see a finned mutant Swordfish listed before an unfinned Jellyfish. Finding a best order to present fish becomes more complicated when you realize that a mutant 3-Fish may perform an important elimination and make all of the Franken 2-Fish unnecessary.

I'm going to give it more thought before committing GFF to my solver. I'll probably end up implementing it so multiple approaches can be chosen. But which and how have yet to become clear to me.

[tarek]

However, I think Simple Sudoku set a precedent by placing X-Wing and Swordfish before Colors and Multiple Colors. Besides, I'm not sure that I'd like to see a finned mutant Swordfish listed before an unfinned Jellyfish. Finding a best order to present fish becomes more complicated when you realize that a mutant 3-Fish may perform an important elimination and make all of the Franken 2-Fish unnecessary.

What I proposed is a method to test if your GFF is working properly. It shouldn't be how a human-style solver works. The next step would then be deciding the order of fish caught & which information to extract from your GFF to perform an elimination.

tarek

[daj95376]

ronk: If you examine the output listing above that I posted for tarek, you'll see that [r3c3]=4 is a given and [r3c3]<>3 is performed that way. The listing also shows that [r3c6]<>3 was performed prior to my 4-Fish.

Had you posted the original puzzle, the pencilmarks, or a solution path prior to that If not, how would I have known those details

I agree that you were unaware of these details. That's where it becomes cloudy on how much information must be known, or assumed. When an unfinned fish is presented, as in an exemplar, then I don't think finned smaller fish can be considered without having the original candidate grid present as well. Hopefully, any finned smaller fish would have been resolved prior to encountering the larger fish! (Except the unfinned Jellyfish in my previous message )

This is a perfect time for me to address a related issue that's been bothering me. I know that my unfinned 4-Fish above is appropriate for the fin and elimination cells present in my PM. But, would my unfinned 4-Fish be appropriate if other fin cells were chosen to perform different eliminations? I seriously doubt it ... and that makes my unfinned 4-Fish's existence dependent on specific combinations of fin and elimination cells.

But I don't think it makes any difference ... because IMO a "generalized fish finder" should also be able to work with a hidden pattern as its only input. The only stumbling block to this capability AFAIK is the absence of an acceptable -- and implementable -- definition of sashimi.

Ironically, when this thread was started, the plan was to drop the sashimi distinction.

I think a GFF isn't the problem. It's trying to force conditions on the underlying, unfinned fish where all of the discussion is focussed. I vote to drop Sashimi except when discussing X-Wings!!! This is something I believe tarek mentioned a long time back in this thread. Others may have mentioned it as well. Add me to the bandwagon of converts!!!

[daj95376]

What I proposed is a method to test if your GFF is working properly. It shouldn't be how a human-style solver works. The next step would then be deciding the order of fish caught & which information to extract from your GFF to perform an elimination.

My GFF program seems to be working as (currently) designed. I've only made three updates to it.

Originally, it searched a PM for any size fish to explain the Template eliminations present. This is what I call the all fish mode. I was later convinced that this wasn't appropriate because a larger fish's eliminations may be cancelled by a smaller fish's eliminations and lesser techniques following it. (This later proved to be correct.) So, I modified my high-level routine to base it's search on the size of the fish and to return after finding the smallest fish present.

My next two updates happened as I learned that some unfinned fish are invalid because they result in all of the non-empty cells in a unit being eliminated. I added filters to prevent finned eliminations from being based on underlying, invalid unfinned fish.

My manual processing of the output from my GFF program is another story. I've had problems performing the right post-processing steps in the right order. First, in the solver where I manually update the PM for GFF eliminations before continuing the solution process. After that, there are manual steps involved in creating an HPc14n table from all of the GFF output and processing that table looking for non-Sashimi unfinned fish.

All of these manual steps are where I've missed things, made mistakes, or had to change my steps as ronk found new ways to torment me with Sashimi logic more complex than I'd ever imagined. It was in searching for non-Sashimi fish that I had to reactivate the all fish logic in my GFF.

Bottom Line: I'm sorry this thread had to endure my manual errors!

[daj95376]

Happy New Year !!! (solve smallest fish to largest fish)

Code: Select all

 +-----------------------+
 | 2 . . | 5 . 9 | 8 . . |
 | . . 4 | . 2 . | . 5 . |
 | . 9 . | . . . | 3 . . |
 |-------+-------+-------|
 | 8 . . | . 9 7 | . 4 . |
 | . 5 . | 6 4 . | 2 . 8 |
 | 9 . . | 8 . 2 | . . . |
 |-------+-------+-------|
 | 3 . 8 | . 7 . | 5 . . |
 | . 7 . | 9 . . | . 2 . |
 | . . . | . 3 . | . . 7 |
 +-----------------------+ # sdaj_13_44


[ronk]

Well, I reprocessed all of the fish patterns from scratch and hope that these four qualify as non-degenerative and new. As they say, the 99th try is the charm!

Code: Select all

  mutant Jellyfish r49c8b1\r3c36b6
  +-----------------------------------+
  |  /  /  X  |  .  .  *  |  .  /  .  |
  |  /  /  X  |  .  .  *  |  .  /  .  |
  |  X  X  *  |  *  *  *  |  *  X  *  |
  |-----------+-----------+-----------|
  |  /  /  X  |  /  /  X  |  X  /  X  |
  |  .  .  *  |  .  .  *  |  *  X  *  |
  |  .  .  *  |  .  .  *  |  *  X  *  |
  |-----------+-----------+-----------|
  |  .  .  *  |  .  .  *  |  .  /  .  |
  |  .  .  *  |  .  .  *  |  .  /  .  |
  |  /  /  X  |  /  /  X  |  /  /  /  |
  +-----------------------------------+ # sdaj_03_27a aj 4

[3 others deleted]

After a unwarranted detour into the netherworld, I agree ... and apologize for being obtuse. Hopefully the condition was temporary.

I went back and examined all the sashimi swordfish and jellyfish illustrations -- both normal and inverse -- currently in the exemplar catalog. They are clearly clearly sashimi. Moreover, they all degenerate with a cascade of steps that eliminates all the candidates that an unfinned sashimi would eliminate ... and a few more besides.

None of your four "submissions" degenerate in this manner ... and therefore qualify as unfinned fish. So I've permuted your "sdaj_03_27a aj 4" (so the transpose is equal to the inverse) for a Fig 4G exemplar.

Code: Select all

 .  /  . |  .  *  . |  .  /  .        .  *  . |  .  /  . |  .  *  .
 *  X  * |  *  *  * |  *  X  *        /  X  / |  /  /  / |  /  X  /
 .  /  . |  .  *  . |  .  /  .        .  *  . |  .  /  . |  .  *  .
---------+----------+----------      ---------+----------+----------
 .  /  . |  .  *  . |  *  X  *        .  *  . |  .  /  . |  /  X  /
 /  /  / |  /  X  / |  X  /  X        *  *  * |  *  X  * |  X *X  X
 .  /  . |  .  *  . |  *  X  *        .  *  . |  .  /  . |  /  X  /
---------+----------+----------      ---------+----------+----------
 .  /  . |  /  X  / |  .  /  .        .  *  . |  *  X  * |  .  *  .
 *  X  * |  X *X  X |  *  X  *        /  X  / |  X  /  X |  /  X  /
 .  /  . |  /  X  / |  .  /  .        .  *  . |  *  X  * |  .  *  .
 Fig 4G: rccb\rrcb                    Fig 4G inverse: rrcb\rccb
 4-fish r5c28b8\r28c5b6               4-fish r28c5b6\r5c28b8
 transpose = inverse
 mutant jellyfish


Permutation of r49c8b1\r3c36b6 in sdaj_03_27 aj 4 here


Do you plan to post the puzzles for the other three

[daj95376]

Do you plan to post the puzzles for the other three

Code: Select all

Puzzle #sdaj_05_14:
 16.7..9...84..6.172.9.......173....9....7....8....273.......3.293.2..17...1..3.98

 +-----------------------+
 | 1 6 . | 7 . . | 9 . . |
 | . 8 4 | . . 6 | . 1 7 |
 | 2 . 9 | . . . | . . . |
 |-------+-------+-------|
 | . 1 7 | 3 . . | . . 9 |
 | . . . | . 7 . | . . . |
 | 8 . . | . . 2 | 7 3 . |
 |-------+-------+-------|
 | . . . | . . . | 3 . 2 |
 | 9 3 . | 2 . . | 1 7 . |
 | . . 1 | . . 3 | . 9 8 |
 +-----------------------+

 r7  b7  Locked Candidate 1              <> 4    [r7c8]
   c39   X-Wing                          <> 6    [r6c4],[r8c5]
 r9  b8  Locked Candidate 1              <> 6    [r9c7]
         XY-Wing  [r6c3]/[r4c1]+[r6c4]   <> 4    [r4c56]
   c4b5  Locked Candidate 1              <> 4    [r3c4],[r9c4]
         Multiple Colors                 <> 8    [r5c8]
   c7b6  Locked Candidate 1              <> 8    [r3c7]
   c369  Swordfish F/S                   <> 5    [r6c4]
   c69   X-Wing                          <> 4    [r1c8],[r8c5]
         XYZ-Wing [r5c8]/[r5c2]+[r6c9]   <> 5    [r5c7]

 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  1     6     3     |  7     2     458   |  9     58    45    |
 |  5     8     4     |  9     3     6     |  2     1     7     |
 |  2     7     9     |  58    458   1     |  456   4568  3     |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  46    1     7     |  3     568   58    |  4568  2     9     |
 |  3     45    2     |  568   7     9     |  468   456   1     |
 |  8     9     56    |  4     1     2     |  7     3     56    |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  46    45    8     |  1     9     7     |  3     56    2     |
 |  9     3     56    |  2     58    458   |  1     7     456   |
 |  7     2     1     |  56    456   3     |  45    9     8     |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
5-Fish r57c369\r168c2b5         f  230\311  <> 5  [r1c8]
5-Fish r57c369\r68c28b5         f  230\221  <> 5  [r1c8]
5-Fish r57c369\r68c2b35         f  230\212  <> 5  [r1c8]

 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  1     6     3     |  7     2     45    |  9     8     45    |
 |  5     8     4     |  9     3     6     |  2     1     7     |
 |  2     7     9     |  58    458   1     |  456   456   3     |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  46    1     7     |  3     568   58    |  4568  2     9     |
 |  3     45    2     |  568   7     9     |  468   456   1     |
 |  8     9     56    |  4     1     2     |  7     3     56    |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  46    45    8     |  1     9     7     |  3     56    2     |
 |  9     3     56    |  2     58    458   |  1     7     456   |
 |  7     2     1     |  56    456   3     |  45    9     8     |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
6-Fish r168c248\r357c39b8       f  330\321  <> 5  [r3c5]
6-Fish r168c248\r57c359b8       f  330\231  <> 5  [r3c5]
6-Fish r168c248\r57c39b28       f  330\222  <> 5  [r3c5]
6-Fish r168c28b5\r357c369       f  321\330  <> 5  [r3c5]
6-Fish r168c28b5\r57c3569       f  321\240  <> 5  [r3c5]
6-Fish r168c28b5\r57c369b2      f  321\231  <> 5  [r3c5]
6-Fish r68c248b3\r357c39b8      A  231\321  <> 5  [r3c5] *** ad 6
6-Fish r68c248b3\r57c359b8      B  231\231  <> 5  [r3c5]
6-Fish r68c248b3\r57c39b28      B  231\222  <> 5  [r3c5]
6-Fish r68c28b35\r357c369       A  222\330  <> 5  [r3c5] *** ab 6
6-Fish r68c28b35\r57c3569       B  222\240  <> 5  [r3c5]

         XY-Wing  [r1c6]/[r3c5]+[r4c6]   <> 8    [r4c5]
         XY-Wing  [r3c5]/[r1c6]+[r8c5]   <> 5    [r8c6]
         XY-Wing  [r4c1]/[r4c5]+[r5c2]   <> 5    [r5c4]
 r4  b5  Locked Candidate 1              <> 5    [r4c7]
   c47   X-Wing                          <> 5    [r3c8],[r9c5]
 r57     X-Wing                          <> 5    [r3c8]
         XY-Wing  [r1c9]/[r3c8]+[r6c9]   <> 6    [r5c8]
         XY-Wing  [r3c8]/[r1c9]+[r7c8]   <> 5    [r8c9]
         XY-Wing  [r7c8]/[r3c8]+[r9c7]   <> 4    [r3c7]
 r5      Naked  Pair                     <> 45   [r5c7]
         XY-Wing  [r3c4]/[r3c7]+[r5c4]   <> 6    [r5c7]
         XY-Wing  [r3c7]/[r3c4]+[r5c7]   <> 8    [r5c4]

 163725984584936217279841563417358629352679841896412735648197352935284176721563498


ronk note: The definition of 'A' and 'B' may have changed slightly since our last discussion on markings.

[daj95376]

Do you plan to post the puzzles for the other three

Code: Select all

Puzzle #sdaj_06_98:
 7...3.2...1.2......92..61..4.39.....9.7.2.3.4.....37.8..13..98......9.3...9.4...1

 +-----------------------+
 | 7 . . | . 3 . | 2 . . |
 | . 1 . | 2 . . | . . . |
 | . 9 2 | . . 6 | 1 . . |
 |-------+-------+-------|
 | 4 . 3 | 9 . . | . . . |
 | 9 . 7 | . 2 . | 3 . 4 |
 | . . . | . . 3 | 7 . 8 |
 |-------+-------+-------|
 | . . 1 | 3 . . | 9 8 . |
 | . . . | . . 9 | . 3 . |
 | . . 9 | . 4 . | . . 1 |
 +-----------------------+

   c2b4  Locked Candidate 1              <> 8    [r1c2]
 r1      Naked  Pair                     <> 56   [r1c346]
         Multiple Colors                 <> 7    [r2c6],[r3c9]
         XYZ-Wing [r2c3]/[r1c2]+[r2c6]   <> 5    [r2c1]

 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  7      56     48     |  18     3      148    |  2      56     9      |
 |  36     1      456    |  2      9      45     |  8      567    3567   |
 |  358    9      2      |  578    578    6      |  1      4      35     |
 |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
 |  4      568    3      |  9      15678  1578   |  56     1256   256    |
 |  9      568    7      |  1568   2      158    |  3      156    4      |
 |  1      2      56     |  4      56     3      |  7      9      8      |
 |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
 |  256    4      1      |  3      567    257    |  9      8      2567   |
 |  2568   7      568    |  1568   1568   9      |  4      3      256    |
 |  2568   3      9      |  5678   4      2578   |  56     2567   1      |
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
2-Fish r1b6\c28                 fF 101\020  <> 5  [r4c2]
2-Fish r1b6\r4c8                f  101\110  <> 5  [r4c2]
2-Fish r1b6\c28                 fF 101\020  <> 6  [r4c2]
2-Fish r1b6\r4c8                f  101\110  <> 6  [r4c2]

         Multiple Colors                 <> 8    [r1c46],[r3c1],[r8c3]
         Colors                          <> 5    [r8c9]

 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  7     56    8     |  1     3     4     |  2     56    9     |
 |  36    1     4     |  2     9     5     |  8     67    367   |
 |  35    9     2     |  7     8     6     |  1     4     35    |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  4     8     3     |  9     567   17    |  56    1256  256   |
 |  9     56    7     |  568   2     18    |  3     156   4     |
 |  1     2     56    |  4     56    3     |  7     9     8     |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  256   4     1     |  3     567   27    |  9     8     2567  |
 |  2568  7     56    |  568   1     9     |  4     3     26    |
 |  2568  3     9     |  568   4     278   |  56    2567  1     |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
2-Fish r3b9\c19                 fF 101\020  <> 5  [r9c1]
2-Fish r3b9\r9c9                f  101\110  <> 5  [r9c1]

 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  7     56    8     |  1     3     4     |  2     56    9     |
 |  36    1     4     |  2     9     5     |  8     67    367   |
 |  35    9     2     |  7     8     6     |  1     4     35    |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  4     8     3     |  9     567   17    |  56    1256  256   |
 |  9     56    7     |  568   2     18    |  3     156   4     |
 |  1     2     56    |  4     56    3     |  7     9     8     |
 |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------|
 |  256   4     1     |  3     567   27    |  9     8     2567  |
 |  2568  7     56    |  568   1     9     |  4     3     26    |
 |  268   3     9     |  568   4     278   |  56    2567  1     |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------+
5-Fish r367c2b3\r1c159b4        A  311\131  <> 5  [r4c9] *** ae 5
5-Fish r367c2b3\r1c15b46        B  311\122  <> 5  [r4c9]
5-Fish r37c24b3\r145c1b8        B  221\311  <> 5  [r4c9]
5-Fish r37c24b3\r15c19b8        A  221\221  <> 5  [r4c9]
5-Fish r37c2b35\r145c15         B  212\320  <> 5  [r4c9]
5-Fish r37c2b35\r15c159         A  212\230  <> 5  [r4c9]

   c9    Naked  Pair                     <> 26   [r2c9],[r7c9]
   c8b3  Locked Candidate 1              <> 6    [r4c8],[r5c8],[r9c8]
 r4  b6  Locked Candidate 1              <> 6    [r4c5]
         Colors                          <> 6    [r1c8],[r2c1],[r5c2],[r6c5],[r7c1],[r8c3]

 768134259314295867592786143483971526957628314126453798241367985675819432839542671


[daj95376]

Another unfinned fish that shouldn't degenerate. This brings my total to five! I bet we'll never get around to the other 269 unfinned fish that do degenerate.

Code: Select all

  mutant Whale r2c269b48\r357c15b3
  +-----------------------------------+
  |  *  /  .  |  .  *  /  |  *  *  X  |
  |  X  /  /  |  /  X  /  |  X  X  /  |
  |  *  X  *  |  *  *  X  |  *  *  *  |
  |-----------+-----------+-----------|
  |  X  /  /  |  .  *  /  |  .  .  /  |
  |  *  /  X  |  *  *  X  |  *  *  X  |
  |  X  /  /  |  .  *  /  |  .  .  /  |
  |-----------+-----------+-----------|
  |  *  X  *  |  X  *  /  |  *  *  X  |
  |  *  /  .  |  /  X  /  |  .  .  /  |
  |  *  /  .  |  /  X  /  |  .  .  /  |
  +-----------------------------------+ # sdaj_16_48b ad 6


Code: Select all

Puzzle #sdaj_16_48:
 9...6.....5.8.2.9...65...2..94.853..5..2..98..8.6.9..4...45.2...45.2..73.....6.45

 +-----------------------+
 | 9 . . | . 6 . | . . . |
 | . 5 . | 8 . 2 | . 9 . |
 | . . 6 | 5 . . | . 2 . |
 |-------+-------+-------|
 | . 9 4 | . 8 5 | 3 . . |
 | 5 . . | 2 . . | 9 8 . |
 | . 8 . | 6 . 9 | . . 4 |
 |-------+-------+-------|
 | . . . | 4 5 . | 2 . . |
 | . 4 5 | . 2 . | . 7 3 |
 | . . . | . . 6 | . 4 5 |
 +-----------------------+

   c7b9  Locked Candidate 1              <> 8    [r3c7]
         Colors                          <> 6    [r2c7],[r4c1],[r5c9],[r7c28],[r8c1]
         Colors                          <> 3    [r2c3]
         XYZ-Wing [r3c2]/[r2c3]+[r7c2]   <> 7    [r1c2]
         Multiple Colors                 <> 1    [r5c6]

 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  9      12     1278   |  17     6      4      |  5      3      178    |
 |  1347   5      17     |  8      137    2      |  147    9      6      |
 |  13478  137    6      |  5      9      137    |  147    2      178    |
 |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
 |  17     9      4      |  17     8      5      |  3      6      2      |
 |  5      6      137    |  2      4      37     |  9      8      17     |
 |  1237   8      1237   |  6      137    9      |  17     5      4      |
 |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
 |  6      37     378    |  4      5      78     |  2      1      9      |
 |  18     4      5      |  9      2      18     |  6      7      3      |
 |  127    127    9      |  3      17     6      |  8      4      5      |
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
3-Fish r48b2\c146               fF 201\030  <> 1  [r2c1]
3-Fish r48b2\r2c46              f  201\120  <> 1  [r2c1]
3-Fish r48c5\c1b58              f  210\012  <> 1  [r2c1]
3-Fish r48c5\r2b58              f  210\102  <> 1  [r2c1]
3-Fish r4c25\r29b5              f  120\201  <> 1  [r2c1]
3-Fish r4c25\r9b15              f  120\102  <> 1  [r2c1]
3-Fish r4c25\r9c1b5             f  120\111  <> 1  [r2c1]
3-Fish r4c5b7\r29b5             f  111\201  <> 1  [r2c1]
3-Fish r4c5b7\r9c1b5            f  111\111  <> 1  [r2c1]
3-Fish r14b6\c349               fF 201\030  <> 7  [r6c3]
3-Fish r14b6\c49b4              fF 201\021  <> 7  [r6c3]
3-Fish r14b6\r6c49              f  201\120  <> 7  [r6c3]
3-Fish r14c7\c34b3              f  210\021  <> 7  [r6c3]
3-Fish r14c7\c4b34              f  210\012  <> 7  [r6c3]
3-Fish r14c7\r6c4b3             f  210\111  <> 7  [r6c3]

 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |  9      12     1278   |  17     6      4      |  5      3      178    |
 |  347    5      17     |  8      137    2      |  147    9      6      |
 |  13478  137    6      |  5      9      137    |  147    2      178    |
 |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
 |  17     9      4      |  17     8      5      |  3      6      2      |
 |  5      6      137    |  2      4      37     |  9      8      17     |
 |  1237   8      123    |  6      137    9      |  17     5      4      |
 |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------|
 |  6      37     378    |  4      5      78     |  2      1      9      |
 |  18     4      5      |  9      2      18     |  6      7      3      |
 |  127    127    9      |  3      17     6      |  8      4      5      |
 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
6-Fish r2469c26\r37c157b5       B  420\231  <> 7  [r7c3]
6-Fish r2469c26\r3c1357b5       B  420\141  <> 7  [r7c3]
6-Fish r2469c26\r3c157b57       A  420\132  <> 7  [r7c3]
6-Fish r246c26b8\r37c157b5      A  321\231  <> 7  [r7c3]
6-Fish r246c26b8\r3c157b57      B  321\132  <> 7  [r7c3]
6-Fish r29c269b4\r357c15b3      B  231\321  <> 7  [r7c3]
6-Fish r29c269b4\r35c135b3      B  231\231  <> 7  [r7c3]
6-Fish r29c269b4\r35c15b37      A  231\222  <> 7  [r7c3]
6-Fish r29c26b46\r357c157       B  222\330  <> 7  [r7c3]
6-Fish r29c26b46\r35c1357       B  222\240  <> 7  [r7c3]
6-Fish r29c26b46\r35c157b7      A  222\231  <> 7  [r7c3]
6-Fish r2c269b48\r357c15b3      A  132\321  <> 7  [r7c3] *** ad 6
6-Fish r2c269b48\r35c15b37      B  132\222  <> 7  [r7c3]
6-Fish r2c26b468\r357c157       A  123\330  <> 7  [r7c3]
6-Fish r2c26b468\r35c157b7      B  123\231  <> 7  [r7c3]

         XY-Wing  [r7c6]/[r5c6]+[r7c3]   <> 3    [r5c3]
     b4  Naked  Pair                     <> 17   [r6c13]
   c3    Naked  Pair                     <> 17   [r1c3],[r6c3]
 r6      cloned Pair                     <> 17   [r6c13]
         Colors                          <> 1    [r2c7],[r3c6],[r4c4],[r5c3],[r6c7],[r8c1],[r9c5]
         Colors                          <> 7    [r2c7],[r3c129],[r9c1]

 928164537751832496436597128194785362567243981382619754673458219845921673219376845


Note: The value <1> doesn't appear as a given/clue, and the value <7> only appears once as a given/clue. I sure wish that I could generate such puzzles on purpose

[ronk]

Well, I [...] hope that these four qualify as non-degenerative and new.

Code: Select all

[...]
mutant Starfish r367c2b3\r1c159b4
  +-----------------------------------+
  |  *  X  *  |  *  *  *  |  X  X  *  |
  |  *  /  .  |  .  *  .  |  /  /  X  |
  |  X  /  /  |  /  X  /  |  /  /  /  |
  |-----------+-----------+-----------|
  |  *  X  *  |  .  *  .  |  .  .  *  |
  |  *  X  *  |  .  *  .  |  .  .  *  |
  |  *  /  X  |  /  X  /  |  /  /  X  |
  |-----------+-----------+-----------|
  |  X  /  /  |  /  X  /  |  /  /  X  |
  |  *  /  .  |  .  *  .  |  .  .  *  |
  |  *  /  .  |  .  *  .  |  .  .  *  |
  +-----------------------------------+ # sdaj_06_98c ae 5


Because the transpose equals the inverse, this makes a pretty exemplar.

Code: Select all

 .  /  . |  .  /  . |  .  *  /        .  *  . |  .  *  . |  .  /  *
 *  X  * |  *  X  * |  *  *  X        /  X  / |  /  X  / |  /  /  X
 .  /  . |  .  /  . |  .  *  /        .  *  . |  .  *  . |  .  /  *
---------+----------+----------      ---------+----------+----------
 .  /  . |  .  /  . |  /  X  /        .  *  . |  .  *  . |  *  X  *
 *  X  * |  *  X  * |  X *X  /        /  X  / |  /  X  / |  X  / *X
 .  /  . |  .  /  . |  /  X  /        .  *  . |  .  *  . |  *  X  *
---------+----------+----------      ---------+----------+----------
 .  /  . |  *  X  * |  .  *  /        .  *  . |  /  X  / |  .  /  *
 /  /  / |  X  /  X |  /  X  /        *  *  * |  X *X  X |  *  X  *
 *  X  * |  * *X  * |  *  *  X        /  X  / |  /  /  / |  /  /  X
 Fig 5G: rcccb\rrrcb                  Fig 5G inverse: rrrcb\rcccb
 5-fish r8c259b6\r259c8b8             5-fish r259c8b8\r8c259b6
 transpose = inverse
 mutant starfish


[Permutation of finned r367c2b3\r1c159b4 in sdaj_06_98c ae 5 here]

[daj95376]

Because the transpose equals the inverse, this makes a pretty exemplar.

Yes, you've done a great job of making them presentable!

[hobiwan]

I am rather new to fishing and stumbled over this thread while looking for information on how to implement a fish finder. As I assume from scanning through the posts a base sector can be a possible elimination if it is contained in at least two cover sectors.

Is that a general rule or are there any caveats (it is not included in the initial post)?

I wanted to ask for more info on sashimi, but seeing what you guys were talking about lately I will wait with that, till I have caught up to you (probably 10 years from now )

[Pat]

I am rather new to fishing and stumbled over this thread while looking for information on how to implement a fish finder.

As I assume from scanning through the posts a base sector can be a possible elimination if it is contained in at least two cover sectors.

exclusions are:
cells of the cover outside the base,
and yes as you noted -- also cells which are doubly in the cover ( even if they are in the base ).

"sector" here is "unit" elsewhere -- row or column or box.

http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/viewtopic.php?p=47610#p47610

[hobiwan]

Thanks for the prompt reply. It would probably be good to include that into the definition of "Potential elimination" in the first post.

"sector" here is "unit" elsewhere -- row or column or box.

Sorry, typo. I meant "base candidate".

[tarek]

It would probably be good to include that into the definition of "Potential elimination" in the first post

Yes

As the aim of the guide is to make sure that terms can be genralised to include sudoku varaiants, I'm still scratching my head over this cover intersect issue.

for vanilla ....

Potential eliminations: cover sector candidates not part of any base sector + candidates at the intersection of cover sectors
Eventual eliminations: Potential eliminations that are seen by all Fin cells


Regarding Fins:
I know that this is an old argument ... but if we are talking about endofins then our Regular fins (B/C) can have the name exofins.

Regarding Sashimi:
to get this thing out of my system, I suggest intyroducing a term that should be added to the fish to describe its Sashiminess (I dislike using un- or non- as prefixes in fish, but if non-sashimi is advised then I'll follow).

The fish name would then be:

Sashiminess + Finning + Shape + size
ex.
1. Sashimi Finned Mutant Jellyfish
2. non-sashimi unfinned basic swordfish

tarek