- Code: Select all
+-----------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------+
| 25678 14568 1247-68 | 23568 247-56 345678 | 1247 12478 9 |
| 26789 4689 247-68 | 268 247-6 1 | 247 3 5 |
| 2578 1458 3 | 258 9 4578 | 1247 6 12478 |
+-----------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------+
| 289 489 5 | 189 3 789 | 12479 1247-89 6 |
| 3689 7 (468) | 5689-1 (156) 2 | 359-14 (1489) (1348) |
| 1 3689 (268) | 4 (567) 5689-7 | 359-27 (2789) (2378) |
+-----------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------+
| 367 136 9 | 1236 8 346 | 123467 5 1247-3 |
| 3568 2 (168) | 7 (1456) 3569-4 | 369-14 (149) (134) |
| 4 356-1 (167) | 3569-12 (1256) 3569 | 8 (1279) (1237) |
+-----------------------+-------------------------+-------------------------+
16 Cells Lizard (R5689C3589) :
16 Truths = {5689N3 5689N5 5689N8 5689N9}
16 Links = {1r589 2r69 4r58 7r69 3c9 5c5 6c35 8c3 9c8 8b6}
22 Eliminations : (68)r12c3, (56)r12c5, (89)r4c8, 3r7c9,
(14)r5c47, (27)r6c67, (14)r8c67, (12)r9c24
The hardest sudokus (new thread)
Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)
by JC Van Hay » Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:37 pm
The simplest Rank 0 pattern in ........9.....1.35..3.9..6...5.3...6.7...2...1..4.......9.8..5..2.7.....4.....8.. ;321;col;H12;1;1247; ; ;X; ;;
- JC Van Hay
- Posts: 719
- Joined: 22 May 2010
Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)
by David P Bird » Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:47 pm
Yet another view...
........9.....1.35..3.9..6...5.3...6.7...2...1..4.......9.8..5..2.7.....4.....8.. ;321;col;H12;1;1247; ; ;X; ;;
MS-NS:(89)r4,(36)r7,(68)c3,(56)c5,(1247)c7,(24)b4,(17)b5,(17)b7,(124)b8 (21 digit instances/cells)
=> 22 Elims:68r1c3, 56r1c5, 68r2c3, 6r2c5, 89r4c8, 1r5c4, 14r5c7, 7r6c6, 27r6c7, 3r7c9, 4r8c6, 14r8c7, 1r9c2, 12r9c4
This is an example of a 'rescuable' almost SK Loop through r47c35 which is spoilt because r9c6 doesn't contain (1) as a given.
This produces 16 cells needing to hold 17 digits - one of these digits is wrong and will be shown as an invalid elimination somewhere.
To attempt to rescue it, try to add an extra cover set consisting of the unsolved 'base' digits [1247] in either an external row or column where it will add x digits and x+1 cells to the MSNS. In this case it is (1247)c7 which adds 4 digits and 5 fully covered cells which gets the counts to match.
Note that (1247+?)r12347c7 is an almost naked set so that (9)r4c7 ^ (3|6)r7c7 as one of these digits was the invalid elimination.
Not all rescue attempts are successful however.
BTW This grid also has a JExocet
DPB
TAGdpbAlmostSKLoop
[Edit Added tag]
........9.....1.35..3.9..6...5.3...6.7...2...1..4.......9.8..5..2.7.....4.....8.. ;321;col;H12;1;1247; ; ;X; ;;
- Code: Select all
*--------------------------*--------------------------*--------------------------*
| 25678 14568 1247-68 | 23568 247-56 345678 | 1247 12478 <9> |
| 26789 4689 247-68 | 268 247-6 <1> | 247 <3> <5> |
| 2578 1458 <3> | 258 <9> 4578 | 1247 <6> 12478 |
*--------------------------*--------------------------*--------------------------*
(89)r4 | 289 489 <5> | 189 <3> 789 | 12479 1247-89 <6> | (24)b4
| 3689 <7> 468 | 5689-1 156 <2> | 359-14 1489 1348 | (17)b5
| <1> 3689 268 | <4> 567 5689-7 | 359-27 2789 2378 |
*--------------------------*--------------------------*--------------------------*
(36)r7 | 367 136 <9> | 1236 <8> 346 | 123467 <5> 1247-3 | (17)b7
| 3568 <2> 168 | <7> 1456 3569-4 | 369-14 149 134 | (124)b8
| <4> 356-1 167 | 3569-12 1256 3569 | <8> 1279 1237 |
*--------------------------*--------------------------*--------------------------*
(68)c3 (56)c5 (1247)c7
MS-NS:(89)r4,(36)r7,(68)c3,(56)c5,(1247)c7,(24)b4,(17)b5,(17)b7,(124)b8 (21 digit instances/cells)
=> 22 Elims:68r1c3, 56r1c5, 68r2c3, 6r2c5, 89r4c8, 1r5c4, 14r5c7, 7r6c6, 27r6c7, 3r7c9, 4r8c6, 14r8c7, 1r9c2, 12r9c4
This is an example of a 'rescuable' almost SK Loop through r47c35 which is spoilt because r9c6 doesn't contain (1) as a given.
This produces 16 cells needing to hold 17 digits - one of these digits is wrong and will be shown as an invalid elimination somewhere.
To attempt to rescue it, try to add an extra cover set consisting of the unsolved 'base' digits [1247] in either an external row or column where it will add x digits and x+1 cells to the MSNS. In this case it is (1247)c7 which adds 4 digits and 5 fully covered cells which gets the counts to match.
Note that (1247+?)r12347c7 is an almost naked set so that (9)r4c7 ^ (3|6)r7c7 as one of these digits was the invalid elimination.
Not all rescue attempts are successful however.
BTW This grid also has a JExocet
DPB
TAGdpbAlmostSKLoop
[Edit Added tag]
Last edited by David P Bird on Sun May 22, 2016 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- David P Bird
- 2010 Supporter
- Posts: 1043
- Joined: 16 September 2008
- Location: Middle England
Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)
by champagne » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:48 am
I just made an update of the data base
as for all new files , that update is in my "google drive space" with the name ph_1512.zip
the link to that storage place is here
The file contains now 1 637 062 puzzles (1 583 095 in august)
the count per clue in the data base is the following
20 77 unchanged
21 10794
22 87176
23 351532
24 551787
25 409800
26 225713 unchanged
The count per er is the following
11.9 9 unchanged
11.8 53 unchanged
11.7 113 unchanged
11.6 187 +1
11.5 549 +4
11.4 1359 +6
so most additions were with ratings below 11.4
as for all new files , that update is in my "google drive space" with the name ph_1512.zip
the link to that storage place is here
The file contains now 1 637 062 puzzles (1 583 095 in august)
the count per clue in the data base is the following
20 77 unchanged
21 10794
22 87176
23 351532
24 551787
25 409800
26 225713 unchanged
The count per er is the following
11.9 9 unchanged
11.8 53 unchanged
11.7 113 unchanged
11.6 187 +1
11.5 549 +4
11.4 1359 +6
so most additions were with ratings below 11.4
- champagne
- 2017 Supporter
- Posts: 7455
- Joined: 02 August 2007
- Location: France Brittany
Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)
by champagne » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:38 pm
After 2 years I just made an update of the data base of potential hardest
as for all new files , that update is in my "google drive space" with the name ph_1712.zip
the link to that storage place is here
The file contains now 1 943 739 puzzles (1 637 062 in the former release)
the count per clue in the data base is the following
the count per clue in the data base is the following
20 77 unchanged
21 10794 unchanged
22 87225
23 391190
24 701128
25 429539
26 323602
The count per er is the following
er CompteDeer
11.9 9
11.8 53
11.7 114 +1
11.6 189 +2
11.5 579 +30
11.4 1424
11.3 8594
including a 11.7 with 26 clues
Next update is not expected in the short term (no free core to search new potential hardest)
as for all new files , that update is in my "google drive space" with the name ph_1712.zip
the link to that storage place is here
The file contains now 1 943 739 puzzles (1 637 062 in the former release)
the count per clue in the data base is the following
the count per clue in the data base is the following
20 77 unchanged
21 10794 unchanged
22 87225
23 391190
24 701128
25 429539
26 323602
The count per er is the following
er CompteDeer
11.9 9
11.8 53
11.7 114 +1
11.6 189 +2
11.5 579 +30
11.4 1424
11.3 8594
including a 11.7 with 26 clues
Next update is not expected in the short term (no free core to search new potential hardest)
- champagne
- 2017 Supporter
- Posts: 7455
- Joined: 02 August 2007
- Location: France Brittany
Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)
by totuan » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:48 pm
Hi champagne,
Now, not much people considers for hardest puzzles or study how to solve them. Sometimes they spend the times to discuss about the name of technique… what a sad.
P/s: nice to see you still online here…
Now, not much people considers for hardest puzzles or study how to solve them. Sometimes they spend the times to discuss about the name of technique… what a sad.
P/s: nice to see you still online here…
- totuan
- Posts: 240
- Joined: 25 May 2010
- Location: vietnam
Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)
by champagne » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:30 pm
totuan wrote:Hi champagne,
Now, not much people considers for hardest puzzles or study how to solve them. Sometimes they spend the times to discuss about the name of technique… what a sad.
P/s: nice to see you still online here…
Hi totuan or may be "ttt",
I know at least one forum member working to-day on hard puzzles looking for unseen properties, but you are right (if as I think you are "ttt") players like to play with puzzles where one elimination ends the game. Some of them can produce very complex moves to do it in once.
And David P Bird mad a very good job to detect complex structures (mainly JExocets) solving or partially solving many of the hardest puzzles. At the end, the game changed.
My last work has been to produce hard puzzles with more clues to see if something different appears in that field.
- champagne
- 2017 Supporter
- Posts: 7455
- Joined: 02 August 2007
- Location: France Brittany
Re: Singles backdoor size 6 puzzles
by tarek » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:30 pm
I just remembered posting what I think are very difficult puzzles in the Sukaku thread (Pencil mark sudoku).
These will be the next level of difficulty of SE defeating puzzles but unfortunately SE doesn't load pencilmarks. With the limited hardware at the time of creating these puzzles, I have no doubt that more difficult puzzles do exist!
I'll leave these puzzles for future reference if anyone is interested. I also confess of being lazy with regards to updating some of these threads that I started. I'm hoping for some time in the near future to do that.
These will be the next level of difficulty of SE defeating puzzles but unfortunately SE doesn't load pencilmarks. With the limited hardware at the time of creating these puzzles, I have no doubt that more difficult puzzles do exist!
I'll leave these puzzles for future reference if anyone is interested. I also confess of being lazy with regards to updating some of these threads that I started. I'm hoping for some time in the near future to do that.
On Apr 15, 2014 in the Sukaku (Pencilmark sudoku) thread tarek wrote:Minimal singles backdoor size 6 puzzles
These were Minimal puzzles created from the same seed puzzle (So all share the same solution). That seed puzzle was special in that gsf's Sudoku confirmed that it has a singles backdoor size 5 and an FNBTHWXYKO backdoor size of 4.
I could not confirm how big the FNBTHWXYKO backdoor size for the minimal forms as it took forever on my limited hardware but they will all be >=4. All should have a Singles backdoor size 6. So IMO these are the most difficult Sudoku puzzles EVER posted to date in the FNBTHWXYKO world
- Code: Select all
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| 35678 13456789 123456789 | 23456789 46789 12456789 | 123456789 13456789 145789 |
| 12356789 137 123457 | 12389 12346789 1248 | 123689 1 12345789 |
| 123456789 1234567 12345678 | 12345689 123456789 12345678 | 1235689 1234569 123456789 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 23456789 46789 12456789 | 1356789 13456789 145789 | 23456789 146789 12456789 |
| 23689 12346789 123456789 | 12356789 1379 12345789 | 12356789 12346789 12478 |
| 12345689 12346 123456789 | 123569 12345679 12347 | 12345689 12346 12345678 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 123456789 156789 12456789 | 123456789 12345678 1245678 | 2356789 13456789 123456789 |
| 12356789 179 1245789 | 123689 12346789 12478 | 2356789 1379 12345789 |
| 123569 12345679 123456789 | 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123456789 12345679 123457 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| 35678 13456789 123456789 | 23456789 46789 12456789 | 123456789 13456789 145789 |
| 123456789 137 123478 | 123689 12346789 1248 | 123689 1 12345789 |
| 123456789 1234567 12345678 | 12345689 23456789 12345678 | 1235689 1234569 123456789 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 23456789 46789 12456789 | 356789 13456789 145789 | 23456789 146789 12456789 |
| 123689 12346789 123456789 | 12356789 1379 12345789 | 12356789 12346789 12478 |
| 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123569 12345679 12347 | 123456789 12346 12345678 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 123456789 156789 12456789 | 23456789 12345678 1245678 | 2356789 13456789 123456789 |
| 12356789 179 12456789 | 23689 12346789 12478 | 2356789 1379 12345789 |
| 123569 12345679 123456789 | 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123456789 12345679 123457 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| 35678 13456789 123456789 | 23456789 46789 12456789 | 123456789 13456789 145789 |
| 12356789 137 1234578 | 12389 12346789 12478 | 123689 1 12345789 |
| 123456789 1234567 12345678 | 12345689 23456789 12345678 | 1235689 1234569 123456789 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 23456789 146789 12456789 | 356789 13456789 145789 | 23456789 146789 12456789 |
| 23689 12346789 123456789 | 12356789 1379 12345789 | 12356789 12346789 12478 |
| 12345689 12346 123456789 | 123569 12345679 12347 | 12345689 12346 12345678 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 123456789 156789 12456789 | 123456789 12345678 1245678 | 2356789 13456789 123456789 |
| 12356789 179 1245789 | 23689 12346789 12478 | 2356789 1379 12345789 |
| 123569 12345679 123456789 | 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123456789 12345679 123457 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| 35678 13456789 123456789 | 23456789 46789 12456789 | 123456789 13456789 145789 |
| 123456789 137 12347 | 1289 1234689 1248 | 123689 1 12345789 |
| 123456789 1234567 12345678 | 12345689 123456789 123456789 | 1235689 12345689 123456789 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 23456789 146789 12456789 | 356789 13456789 145789 | 23456789 146789 12456789 |
| 23689 12346789 123456789 | 12356789 1379 12345789 | 12356789 12346789 12478 |
| 12345689 12346 123456789 | 123569 12345679 123457 | 12345689 12346 12345678 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 123456789 156789 12456789 | 23456789 12345678 1245678 | 2356789 13456789 123456789 |
| 12356789 179 1245789 | 23689 12346789 12478 | 2356789 1379 12345789 |
| 1235689 12345679 123456789 | 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123456789 12345679 123457 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| 345678 13456789 123456789 | 23456789 46789 12456789 | 123456789 13456789 145789 |
| 123456789 137 1347 | 123689 12346789 12478 | 123689 1 12345789 |
| 123456789 1234567 12345678 | 12345689 123456789 12345678 | 1235689 12345689 123456789 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 23456789 46789 12456789 | 356789 13456789 145789 | 23456789 146789 12456789 |
| 23689 12346789 123456789 | 12356789 1379 12345789 | 12356789 12346789 12478 |
| 12345689 12346 123456789 | 123569 12345679 123457 | 12345689 12346 12345678 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 123456789 156789 12456789 | 123456789 12345678 1245678 | 2356789 13456789 123456789 |
| 12356789 179 1245789 | 23689 12346789 12478 | 2356789 1379 12345789 |
| 123569 12345679 123456789 | 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123456789 12345679 123457 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| 356789 13456789 123456789 | 23456789 46789 12456789 | 123456789 13456789 145789 |
| 12356789 137 123457 | 123689 12346789 12478 | 123689 1 12345789 |
| 123456789 1234567 12345678 | 12345689 12456789 12345678 | 1235689 12345689 123456789 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 23456789 46789 12456789 | 1356789 13456789 145789 | 23456789 146789 12456789 |
| 23689 12346789 123456789 | 12356789 1379 12345789 | 12356789 12346789 12478 |
| 12345689 12346 123456789 | 123569 12345679 12347 | 12345689 12346 12345678 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 123456789 156789 12456789 | 123456789 12345678 1245678 | 2356789 13456789 123456789 |
| 12356789 179 1245789 | 23689 12346789 12478 | 2356789 1379 12345789 |
| 123569 12345679 123456789 | 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123456789 12345679 123457 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| 356789 13456789 123456789 | 23456789 46789 12456789 | 123456789 13456789 145789 |
| 12356789 137 123457 | 123689 12346789 12478 | 123689 1 12345789 |
| 123456789 1234567 12345678 | 12345689 12456789 12345678 | 1235689 1234569 123456789 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 23456789 46789 12456789 | 1356789 13456789 145789 | 23456789 146789 12456789 |
| 23689 12346789 123456789 | 12356789 1379 12345789 | 12356789 12346789 12478 |
| 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123569 12345679 12347 | 123456789 12346 12345678 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 123456789 156789 12456789 | 123456789 12345678 1245678 | 2356789 13456789 123456789 |
| 12356789 179 1245789 | 123689 12346789 12478 | 2356789 1379 12345789 |
| 123569 12345679 123456789 | 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123456789 12345679 123457 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| 356789 13456789 123456789 | 23456789 46789 12456789 | 123456789 13456789 145789 |
| 12356789 137 12345678 | 123689 12346789 12478 | 123689 1 12345789 |
| 123456789 1234567 12345678 | 12345689 23456789 12345678 | 1235689 1234569 123456789 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 23456789 46789 12456789 | 356789 13456789 145789 | 23456789 146789 12456789 |
| 23689 12346789 123456789 | 12356789 1379 12345789 | 12356789 12346789 12478 |
| 12345689 12346 123456789 | 123569 12345679 123457 | 12345689 12346 12345678 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 123456789 156789 12456789 | 123456789 12345678 1245678 | 2356789 13456789 123456789 |
| 12356789 179 1245789 | 23689 12346789 12478 | 2356789 1379 12345789 |
| 123569 12345679 123456789 | 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123456789 12345679 123457 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| 35678 13456789 123456789 | 23456789 46789 12456789 | 123456789 13456789 145789 |
| 12356789 137 123457 | 123689 12346789 12478 | 1235689 1 12345789 |
| 123456789 1234567 12345678 | 12345689 123456789 12345678 | 1235689 12345689 123456789 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 23456789 46789 12456789 | 356789 13456789 145789 | 23456789 146789 12456789 |
| 23689 12346789 123456789 | 12356789 1379 12345789 | 12356789 12346789 12478 |
| 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123569 12345679 123457 | 123456789 12346 12345678 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 123456789 156789 12456789 | 123456789 12345678 1245678 | 2356789 13456789 123456789 |
| 12356789 179 1245789 | 23689 12346789 12478 | 2356789 1379 12345789 |
| 123569 12345679 123456789 | 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123456789 12345679 123457 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| 356789 13456789 123456789 | 23456789 46789 12456789 | 123456789 13456789 145789 |
| 12356789 137 123457 | 12689 12346789 1248 | 1235689 1 12345789 |
| 123456789 1234567 12345678 | 12345689 123456789 12345678 | 1235689 12345689 123456789 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 23456789 46789 12456789 | 356789 13456789 145789 | 23456789 146789 12456789 |
| 23689 12346789 123456789 | 12356789 1379 12345789 | 12356789 12346789 12478 |
| 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123569 12345679 123457 | 123456789 12346 12345678 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 123456789 156789 12456789 | 123456789 12345678 1245678 | 2356789 13456789 123456789 |
| 12356789 179 1245789 | 123689 12346789 12478 | 2356789 1379 12345789 |
| 123569 12345679 123456789 | 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123456789 12345679 123457 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| 356789 13456789 123456789 | 23456789 46789 12456789 | 123456789 13456789 145789 |
| 12356789 137 123457 | 123689 12346789 1248 | 123689 1 12345789 |
| 123456789 1234567 12345678 | 12345689 123456789 12345678 | 1235689 1234569 123456789 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 23456789 146789 12456789 | 1356789 13456789 145789 | 23456789 146789 12456789 |
| 23689 12346789 123456789 | 12356789 1379 12345789 | 12356789 12346789 12478 |
| 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123569 12345679 12347 | 123456789 12346 12345678 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
| 123456789 156789 12456789 | 123456789 12345678 1245678 | 2356789 13456789 123456789 |
| 12356789 179 1245789 | 123689 12346789 12478 | 2356789 1379 12345789 |
| 123569 12345679 123456789 | 12345689 12346 12345678 | 123456789 12345679 123457 |
:-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------:
To the purists who need the cells to have more than 1 candidate, I've modified these puzzles to another minimal form which shares the same singles outcome:Hidden Text: Show
Here are the original 11 puzzles in the 729 line formatHidden Text: Show
-
tarek - Posts: 3762
- Joined: 05 January 2006
Somemore hard sudokus
by coloin » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:13 pm
A new member [FLOCKMAN] has expressed an interest [via pm] in making sudokus with high SE rating - and he has made a few new ones ......
Which has rekindled publicizing some work i did.
It has been said that the area with 22,23 clues are well searched and there are few new puzzles to be found with high ratings.....
However by changing a few clues and testing - it seems that this is not the case !!!!
Here are a few new ones - found by repeated vicinity search +1 or +2 on known puzzles .....some time ago.... but it took a determined search
as you can see a few SE 11.5 ... all well and good ....
however a search around Champagne Dry - brought a few new puzzles ...43 with skfr > 10.6 , 30 already in file01
except 13 were new .... including a 11.2 ....
which made me wonder..... how these puzzles were new ....
untill these facts explained it
{-1+1} of champagne dry - 68 puzzles
{-2+2} of champagne dry - 13,470 puzzles
{-3+3} of champagne dry - ? at least 15,000,000 puzzles - and i only generated / rated the first million
so it seems that there may well be a few more out there ....
and the 11.2 may well appear in a well known g.r.emlin game
Which has rekindled publicizing some work i did.
It has been said that the area with 22,23 clues are well searched and there are few new puzzles to be found with high ratings.....
However by changing a few clues and testing - it seems that this is not the case !!!!
Here are a few new ones - found by repeated vicinity search +1 or +2 on known puzzles .....some time ago.... but it took a determined search
- Code: Select all
puzzle SE skfr
6..7..8..8.746.5...5...8...5....74....694...........2.9...7.6...3.8....1........5 ED=11.1/1.2/1.2 ED=11.0/1.2/1.2
6..7..8..8.746.....5...8...5....74.....94...5.......2.9...7.6...3.8....1.6.....5. ED=11.1/1.2/1.2 ED=11.0/1.2/1.2
9..7.86..7.......8..4.3....8....6.2..5......4..3.........9.2.....8.1...5...8..27. ED=11.0/1.2/1.2 ED=11.0/1.2/1.2
6..7..8..8.746...2.5...8...5....74....694...........2.9...7.6...3.8....1.......5. ED=11.1/1.2/1.2 ED=11.0/1.2/1.2
........2.....1.3...4.5.6........8...7.8..5.69......13.47.6......874....3....2... ED=11.2/1.2/1.2 ED=11.0/1.2/1.2
........8.....9.34..9...25...3..5.2.7...6.....1.8..4....4..23...6..1....8..7..... ED=11.1/11.1/10.4 ED=11.0/11.0/10.3
2.87..6..7.........15.3....8.....92..5.........1.....4...6.9.7.....5...1.....829. ED=11.1/11.1/2.6 ED=11.0/11.0/2.6
9..7..6..7......8..4..38...8....9.2..1......4..5.........6.27......1...5...8..29. ED=11.1/11.1/2.6 ED=11.0/11.0/2.6
98.76.5...7.5...8...5...6..........3..739..5.....7.2...1.........985..6......34.. ED=11.1/11.1/9.2 ED=11.0/11.0/9.1
98.7...6.7.........45.3....8....9.2..1......4..4.........6.27......1...5...9..28. ED=11.2/1.2/1.2 ED=11.1/1.2/1.2
98.7...6.6.........54.3....8....9.2..1.........5.....4...6.29......5...1.....827. ED=11.2/1.2/1.2 ED=11.1/1.2/1.2
9..7.86..7.......8..4.3....8....6.2...3.....4.1..........9.2.....8.1...5...8..27. ED=11.2/1.2/1.2 ED=11.1/1.2/1.2
29.6..7..7.........54.3....8....96...1......5..5.........8.7.6.....4...1...9..28. ED=11.2/1.2/1.2 ED=11.1/1.2/1.2
9.....8..8..96.5...75..8...5....74...3.49...........2.4...7.6....68...1......6.5. ED=11.2/1.2/1.2 ED=11.1/1.2/1.2
98.7..6....5.2..4......9...8....27...4.....5....1....37......6..2...68....8.3...1 ED=11.2/11.2/10.6 ED=11.1/11.1/10.5
9..7..6..7.......8.15.3....8....9.2.........1.43.........6.2.8.....5...4...9..27. ED=11.1/1.2/1.2 ED=11.2/1.2/1.2
6..7..8..8.746.....5...8...5..9.74......4...5.......2.9...7.6...3.8....1..6....5. ED=11.5/1.2/1.2 ED=11.2/1.2/1.2
9.....8..8..96.5...75..8...5....79...3.49...........2.4...7.6....68....1.....6.5. ED=11.5/1.2/1.2 ED=11.4/1.2/1.2
98.76.5..67.5...9...5..............3..638..5.1.....2.....6..4....987..6......3... ED=11.1/1.2/1.2 ED=11.0/1.2/1.2
.5.6..7......9..1.7.3.....98.72......2..56...5....82..4....1..3.7.5..8.........4. ED=11.0/11.0/9.1 ED=11.0/11.0/9.0
6..7..8..7..96.5...5...8...5....94...3.47...........2.4...9.6.....8....1.9...6.5. ED=11.2/10.9/7.2 ED=11.0/10.6/7.2
.8.2..6..3....4...5...9......9....7..1.7....6....4.21..7.82..6...3.5...8......1.. ED=11.0/11.0/9.3 ED=11.0/11.0/9.3
.....86....5.9..1....4.....5...3..7..71..4....932.....1.....2.6.5..1.83...9....5. ED=11.1/11.1/9.9 ED=11.0/11.0/9.7
6..7..8.97..96.5...5...8...5....94...3.47...........2.4...9.6.....8....1.....6.5. ED=11.2/10.8/7.2 ED=11.1/10.6/7.2
.....75....6.5..4.15......92......1..743....5..1.9.4....8.6...4.....3......2..68. ED=11.1/11.1/2.6 ED=11.1/11.1/2.6
..............4395..3...24...9..5.2..1.96....7.....9....4..35...6..7....8..1..... ED=11.2/11.2/3.4 ED=11.1/11.1/3.4
6..7..4....5.9..7......4..82...5.7...6..7.3....7..9.1.32.........19...4.....1.8.. ED=11.1/11.1/9.9 ED=11.0/11.0/9.7
98.76.5...7.5...8...5.....6......2.3..739..5.1..2................987..6..4...3... ED=11.2/11.2/9.6 ED=11.1/11.1/9.5
94...36....5.6..4......85.....3...2..1.....75..2.7.4..1....92....6.2...4...8..... ED=11.0/11.0/10.3 ED=11.0/11.0/10.3
98....6....5.9..2..2...4...5...3..8..3....1.......2..62..1....7.5..7..9...74....3 ED=10.8/10.8/2.6 ED=11.0/11.0/2.6
.9.7..6..54..8..7...7..4...3...2.5..91.........54...8...98...6......3..24...9.1.. ED=11.1/11.1/7.6 ED=11.0/11.0/7.6
98....6....5.9..8......4..95...3..2..32.....6........12....17...5..7..9...74....3 ED=11.0/11.0/9.4 ED=11.0/11.0/9.3
98.76.5...7.5...9...5...6..1..2....3..839..6.......2.............987..5......34.. ED=11.1/11.1/9.7 ED=11.1/10.9/9.5
as you can see a few SE 11.5 ... all well and good ....
however a search around Champagne Dry - brought a few new puzzles ...43 with skfr > 10.6 , 30 already in file01
except 13 were new .... including a 11.2 ....
- Code: Select all
puzzle SE skfr
98.7.....7.....6....6.5.....4.....3...79..5......27..1..85..9......1...4.....3.2. ED=10.8/1.2/1.2 ED=10.6/1.2/1.2
9..7.....78....6....6.5.....4.....3...79..5......27..1..85..9......1...4.....3.2. ED=10.7/1.2/1.2 ED=10.6/1.2/1.2
.9.7.....78....6....6.5.....4.....3...79..5....5.2...1..85..9......1...4.....3.2. ED=10.7/1.2/1.2 ED=10.6/1.2/1.2
.8.7.....7.....6....6.59....4.....3...79..5....5.2...1..85..9......1...4.....3.2. ED=10.8/1.2/1.2 ED=10.6/1.2/1.2
.8.7.....75....6....6..9...4....5.3...79..5......2...1..85..9......1...4.....3.2. ED=10.6/1.2/1.2 ED=10.6/1.2/1.2
98.7.....7.....6....6.5.....4.....3...79..8......2..71..85..9......1...4.....3.2. ED=10.7/1.2/1.2 ED=10.6/1.2/1.2
9..6.....7....86....6.5..8..4...5.3...79.........2...1..85..9......1...4.....3.2. ED=10.7/1.2/1.2 ED=10.6/1.2/1.2
95.7......8....6....6....7..4...5.3...79..5......2...1..85..9......1...4.....3.2. ED=10.8/1.2/1.2 ED=10.6/1.2/1.2
9..7.....87....6....6.5.....4.....3...79..5..5...2...1..85..9......1...4.....3.2. ED=10.8/1.2/1.2 ED=10.6/1.2/1.2
9..7..8..7..6.......6.58....4...5.3...7...5......2...1..85..9......1...4.....3.2. ED=10.8/1.2/1.2 ED=10.6/1.2/1.2
9..7.....7.....8....6.58....4...5.3...79..5......2...1..85..6......1...4.....3.2. ED=10.7/1.2/1.2 ED=10.6/1.2/1.2
68.7.....79....6......5....84.....3...79..5......2...1..85..9......1...4.....3.2. ED=10.7/2.6/2.6 ED=10.6/2.6/2.6
9..7..6..7....8....56.......4...5.3...79..5......2...1..85..9......1...4.....3.2. ED=11.2/11.2/10.7 ED=11.1/11.1/10.7
all within {-3+3} of champagne dry
98.7.....7.....6....6.5.....4...5.3...79..5......2...1..85..9......1...4.....3.2. ED=11.9/11.9/11.8;GP;champagne dry
which made me wonder..... how these puzzles were new ....
untill these facts explained it
{-1+1} of champagne dry - 68 puzzles
{-2+2} of champagne dry - 13,470 puzzles
{-3+3} of champagne dry - ? at least 15,000,000 puzzles - and i only generated / rated the first million
so it seems that there may well be a few more out there ....
and the 11.2 may well appear in a well known g.r.emlin game
- coloin
- Posts: 2494
- Joined: 05 May 2005
- Location: Devon
Re: Somemore hard sudokus
by champagne » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:06 am
coloin wrote:A new member [FLOCKMAN] has expressed an interest [via pm] in making sudokus with high SE rating - and he has made a few new ones ......
Which has rekindled publicizing some work i did.
It has been said that the area with 22,23 clues are well searched and there are few new puzzles to be found with high ratings.....
However by changing a few clues and testing - it seems that this is not the case !!!!
Here are a few new ones - found by repeated vicinity search +1 or +2 on known puzzles .....some time ago.... but it took a determined search
as you can see a few SE 11.5 ... all well and good ....
however a search around Champagne Dry - brought a few new puzzles ...43 with skfr > 10.6 , 30 already in file01
except 13 were new .... including a 11.2 ....
which made me wonder..... how these puzzles were new ....
untill these facts explained it
{-1+1} of champagne dry - 68 puzzles
{-2+2} of champagne dry - 13,470 puzzles
{-3+3} of champagne dry - ? at least 15,000,000 puzzles - and i only generated / rated the first million
so it seems that there may well be a few more out there ....
and the 11.2 may well appear in a well known g.r.emlin game
Hi coloin,
Now that I am back, I intend, after cleaning of several things, including a 3 months search of 17 clues puzzles, to process the new findings of FLOKMAN, but some comments on your post
It has been said that the area with 22,23 clues are well searched
I wrote this and I would do the same to-day.
a) The yield of a new attack in this area is very low compared to what can be achieved with more clues
b) and the chances to get high ratings is still lower
but in any area, new puzzles can be found meeting the requirements to enter the data base of potential hardest, especially in the bottom part of the file where several puzzles created in the past have no been included.
A new comer has more chance to find something in widely explored area. In my search, all puzzles with skfr ER<10 are lost as seed for the next cycles and a seed used will never come again.
Any error in data handling means that the corresponding seed is definitely lost.
Many of the recent games have used patterns existing in the data base of potential hardest and the results generally go in the same direction:
a) most of the high ratings are already in the data base,
b) a few number of new >=11.0 have been produced
c) but the majority of the new ratings are limit down for the data base.
The current pattern proposed by patrice has more clues, an area not yet deeply searched, It will be interesting to see how many new puzzles (within the data base criterai) are produced
PS: the chance to find a new 17 are extremely low, what does not prevent me to check whether this is true in a very long process
- champagne
- 2017 Supporter
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- Joined: 02 August 2007
- Location: France Brittany
Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)
by champagne » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:11 am
Hi coloin,
I processed your files after puzzles submitted by "FLOCKMAN" .
The second file produced 6 new puzzles including the 11.2. For the 10.6 10.7, my filter would have skipped them (not pearl), but the 11.2 should have been there. (the +/- 3 generation has surely be done).
The first file gave 33 new puzzles including the 2x11.5
All puzzle were minimal
I processed your files after puzzles submitted by "FLOCKMAN" .
The second file produced 6 new puzzles including the 11.2. For the 10.6 10.7, my filter would have skipped them (not pearl), but the 11.2 should have been there. (the +/- 3 generation has surely be done).
The first file gave 33 new puzzles including the 2x11.5
All puzzle were minimal
- champagne
- 2017 Supporter
- Posts: 7455
- Joined: 02 August 2007
- Location: France Brittany
Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)
by Biomage » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:20 pm
for me current Hardest its Sudoku 2, the 1 that have levels 1-32, current level its 21 , cant wait to reach 32
, cant wait to reach 32 - Biomage
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 11 April 2018
Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)
by champagne » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:09 pm
Hi Biomage,
welcome in this forum, but I confess that I have difficulties to catch your point
welcome in this forum, but I confess that I have difficulties to catch your point
- champagne
- 2017 Supporter
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- Joined: 02 August 2007
- Location: France Brittany
Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)
by emerentius_ » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:49 pm
champagne wrote:After 2 years I just made an update of the data base of potential hardest
as for all new files , that update is in my "google drive space" with the name ph_1712.zip
the link to that storage place is here
I found 3 sudokus with multiple solutions in that dataset in 01_file.txt :
- Code: Select all
...2....3.4..5..2...2...6..5....3.7..6..2.8.....9.......5.4.2...8.7...6.9.......1
...2....3.4..3..5...3...6..7....8.1..9..2.7.....7....4..6.9.1...5.4...7.8....2...
.2.9..6..5...4......1..6...6......5..9..3.2....3..8..74...6.5.....7....8.....3.1.
- emerentius_
- Posts: 23
- Joined: 09 January 2018
Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)
by champagne » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:31 pm
I'll check to_morrow. No puzzle with multiple solutions should be there.
Thanks
Thanks
- champagne
- 2017 Supporter
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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)
by eleven » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:54 pm
emerentius_ wrote:I found 3 sudokus with multiple solutions in that dataset in 01_file.txt
Indeed, 245, 60 and 55 solutions. There must be a number missing (they wouldn't get a rating this way).
Guess it should be 1,1, and 3 in the first position of the puzzles.
- eleven
- Posts: 3151
- Joined: 10 February 2008
