The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby dobrichev » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:36 pm

These are the newbies coming directly from unavoidable sets. I have only them rated with SE, the version from the Patterns Game.

Code: Select all
........1.....234...3...25...1..5..4.6..7....8..9.......4..3..2.7..8....9..6...1. 11.3/11.3/11.2 skfr=11.3/11.3/11.1
........1......234..1..2.56..3..6.1..7..5....8..9.......6..4.2..5..7....9..8..... 11.3/11.3/3.4 skfr=11.2/11.2/3.4
........1.....234...3...52...1..3..2.6..7....8..9...5...4..1..5.7.6.....9...8.... 11.1/11.1/3.4 skfr=11.1/11.1/3.4
........1.....234...3...25...1..5..4.6..7....8..9.......5..3..2.7.6.....9...8.4.. 11.2/11.2/3.4 skfr=11.1/11.1/3.4
........1.....234...3...25...1..3..2.6..7....8..9..5....4..1..5.7..8....9..6..... 11.1/11.1/3.4 skfr=11.1/11.1/3.4
........1.....123...2...45...1..4..2.6..7....8..9..3....4..5..3.7..8....9..6..... 11.1/11.1/3.4 skfr=11.1/11.1/3.4
........1......234..1..2.56..3..4.2..5..7....8..9.......6..3.1..7..5....9..8..... 11.2/11.2/3.4 skfr=11.1/11.1/3.4
........1.....123...2...45...1..5..3.6..7....8..9.......5..4..2.7..8....9..6..3.. 11.1/11.1/9.9 skfr=11.0/11.0/9.6
........1.....123..12...45...3..4..2.6..7....8..9.......4..5..3.9..6....7..8..... 11.2/11.2/3.4 skfr=11.0/11.0/3.4
........1.....234...3...25...1..3..4.6..7....8..9.......2..1..5.7.8.....91..6.... 11.1/11.1/9.9 skfr=10.9/10.9/9.7


Champagne, soon I'll send you the rest but with skfr rating only.
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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby champagne » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:07 am

champagne wrote: last update of the data base of potential hardest is availabe
The link is unchanged

here


The data base has now 30 580 puzzles
Analysis of specific properties has been done for the first 30 000

in that update some puzzles generated by dobrichev as explained above


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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby David P Bird » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:39 am

champagne wrote:
champagne wrote: last update of the data base of potential hardest is availabe
The link is unchanged

here


The data base has now 30 580 puzzles
Analysis of specific properties has been done for the first 30 000

in that update some puzzles generated by dobrichev as explained above


champagne

I have the same problem that MD had before - I can't decompress this zipfile. Did you check it?

DPB
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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby champagne » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:04 am

David P Bird wrote:I have the same problem that MD had before - I can't decompress this zipfile. Did you check it?

DPB


I updated my zip file which seems to create problems.
I restarted from nill and now it seems ok

sorry

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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby David P Bird » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:37 am

champagne, I still can't decompress the file, but it may be my Windows XP computer.

Perhaps someone else can confirm it's not "corrupted or invalid" as my failure message reports.

DPB
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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby champagne » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:04 am

David P Bird wrote:champagne, I still can't decompress the file, but it may be my Windows XP computer.

Perhaps someone else can confirm it's not "corrupted or invalid" as my failure message reports.

DPB


I had problems in the past with internet explorer (coming I guess form some compatibility issue with my web supplier)

I suggest that you try firefox.
I ckecked again, it works properly on my side if I download the file using firefox.

(reversely, i have a problem currently with firefox to access the last page of the pattern game thread, but it works with internet explorer. )

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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby David P Bird » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:27 am

champagne wrote:I suggest that you try firefox.

Thanks for the help, but using alternative browsers will be new for me. As I don't know how long I'll need, I'm afraid I'll have to put it on hold for a while.

DPB
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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby champagne » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:35 am

David P Bird wrote:
champagne wrote:I suggest that you try firefox.

Thanks for the help, but using alternative browsers will be new for me. As I don't know how long I'll need, I'm afraid I'll have to put it on hold for a while.

DPB


if you give me your email, I can also send it to you as an attached file.
I check download with internet and I have a bad file as well.

unhappily, I can not change my web supplier.

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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby ronk » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:40 pm

David P Bird wrote:
champagne wrote:I suggest that you try firefox.
Thanks for the help, but using alternative browsers will be new for me.

There have been occasional compatibility issues with *.zip files, so suggest you try a different decompression program.

For me, downloads with both Firefox 3.6.28 and Windows Internet Explorer 9 followed by the decompression built-in for Windows 7 Explorer v6.1 SP1 work fine. IOW the result is independent of the download method.
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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby David P Bird » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:09 pm

ronk wrote:There have been occasional compatibility issues with *.zip files, so suggest you try a different decompression program.

Thanks for the advice and I'll be looking into that. However I'm pleased to say that the zip file champagne kindly sent as an e-mail attachment decompressed OK, for which I'm very grateful.
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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby champagne » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:20 pm

ronk wrote:
David P Bird wrote:
champagne wrote:I suggest that you try firefox.
Thanks for the help, but using alternative browsers will be new for me.

There have been occasional compatibility issues with *.zip files, so suggest you try a different decompression program.

For me, downloads with both Firefox 3.6.28 and Windows Internet Explorer 9 followed by the decompression built-in for Windows 7 Explorer v6.1 SP1 work fine. IOW the result is independent of the download method.


I think newest versions are fine. I am sure, because I checked that carefully with somebody of the company that some problems occurred in the past with older versions. My labtop is still windows XP, which can explain than

I met the same problem as David with Internet Explorer
I have that unexplained irritating problem with Firefox and the Pattern game

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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby ronk » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:12 pm

David P Bird wrote:I'm pleased to say that the zip file champagne kindly sent as an e-mail attachment decompressed OK ...

Then you should be able to byte-compare this to the downloaded file to determine if the latter is actually "corrupted." Of course, this won't determine where in the overall delivery process the corruption might have occurred.
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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby dobrichev » Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:20 am

champagne wrote:
ronk wrote:
champagne wrote:with 20 clues, it's clear that the constraints to have a valid puzzle prevent to pass ED=3.4.

Interesting, but what were the sample sizes of the 20, 21, etc. clue patterns?


this is the count per clue of the "potential hardest" data base .
the last public update of the file is slightly below (about 350 puzzles less)
The cut off to be eligible in that file, so far based on serate ratings is

ER >= 11.0 or
EP >= 10.8 or
ED >= 10.5


Code: Select all
20   29
21   2066
22   7021
23   16169
24   5066
25   7
26   9
27   30
28   24
37   1


Here are few counter-examples for 20 givens with ED>3.4 (but EP/ER outside of champagne's filter).
columns are puzzle, skfr rating, SE rating.
Code: Select all
........1.....2.3...2.4...5..4..56...1.7.....8...9......5..6.4..9..1....7..8..... ED=10.4/10.4/9.2 10.5/10.5/9.2
........1.....2.....3.4..25..4..56...7..8....9..1.......5..6.4..1.7.....8...9.... ED=9.8/9.7/9.7 9.9/9.9/9.7
........1.....2.3...3...24...2..56...7..1....8..9.......6..3.5..1.8.....9...7.... ED=9.5/9.5/9.5 9.6/9.6/9.6
........1.....2....34..........5..6...17..3..8....9..4...6...7...8..4..9.2..3.5.. ED=9.6/9.6/9.5 9.8/9.8/9.5
........1.....2.....3....4...4..5.6..7..1.2..8..9.......5..46...9.7.....1...8..3. ED=9.6/9.6/9.5 9.7/9.7/9.5
........1.....2.....3...45...2..46...5..1....7..8...3...4..3.9..1..5....8..7..... ED=9.4/9.4/9.4 9.5/9.5/9.5
........1.......23..1..24......5......2..3.4..6.7..8....3..1..4.7.6.....5.....9.. ED=10.0/10.0/9.4 10.2/10.2/9.5
........1.......2...1..23.4....5......2..4.3..6.7..8....4..1..3.5.6.....7.....9.. ED=9.7/9.7/9.4 9.9/9.9/9.5


BTW ED of x/x/6.7 is very common too for the 20s.
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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby champagne » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:07 am

last update of the data base of potential hardest is available
The link is unchanged

here


The data base has now 31 804 puzzles
Analysis of specific properties has been done for the first 30 000 (seq number)
except for the exocet pattern

that file contains a revised definition of the files

03 E Exocet seen
03 EE exocet double seen

in line with the last work done in that thread

bi bi pattern

the entire data base has been searched for the exocet pattern and it has been seen in 24 410 puzzles.


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Re: The hardest sudokus (new thread)

Postby David P Bird » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:56 am

champagne wrote:last update of the data base of potential hardest is available...


Thanks champagne. This time I could decompress the file straight away, so please keep to your new procedure.

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