The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[tarek]

I know this may open a can of worms but I thought that with the work on the Sukaku explainer (which doubles up as sudoku explainer as well), there could be a scope for SE ratings / Resolution rule order / Resolution rule addition/deletion.

The current rules & ratings (which occasionally) overlap are:

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1.0: Last value in block, row or column
1.2: Hidden Single in block
1.5: Hidden Single in row or column
1.7: Direct Pointing
1.9: Direct Claiming
2.0: Direct Hidden Pair
2.3: Naked Single
2.5: Direct Hidden Triplet
2.6: Pointing
2.8: Claiming
3.0, 3.2, 3.4: Naked Pair, X-Wing, Hidden Pair
3.6, 3.8, 4.0: Naked Triplet, Swordfish, Hidden Triplet
4.2, 4.4: XY-Wing, XYZ-Wing
4.5 - 5.0: Unique rectangles and loops
5.0, 5.2, 5.4: Naked Quad, Jellyfish, Hidden Quad
5.6 - 6.0: Bivalue Universal Graves
6.2: Aligned Pair Exclusion
6.5 - 7.5: Bidirectioal X-Cycles and Y-Cycles
6.6 - 7.6: Forcing X-Chains
7.0 - 8.0: Forcing Chains, Bidirectional Cycles
7.5 - 8.5: Nishio
8.0 - 9.0: Cell/Region Forcing Chains
8.5 - 9.5: Dynamic Forcing Chains
9.0 - 10.0: Dynamic Forcing Chains (+)
> 9.5: Nested Forcing Chains

I'll start by 1st suggesting a change towards the lower end of the ratings as follows:

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1.2: Hidden single (1.5 if not in block)
1.6: Naked single//2.3 ---> 1.6
1.7: Direct Pointing
1.9: Direct Claiming
2.0: Direct Hidden Pair
2.6: Pointing
2.8: Claiming
2.9: Hidden pair//3.4 ---> 2.9
3.0: Direct Hidden Triplet//2.5 ---> 3.0
3.1, 3.2: Naked pair, X-Wing//3.0 ---> 3.1
3.6, 3.8, 4.0: Naked triplet, Hidden triplet, Swordfish//3.8 ---> 4.0 4.0 ---> 3.8
4.2, 4.4: XY-Wing, XYZ-Wing
4.5 - 5.0: Unique Rectangles and Loops
5.0, 5.2, 5.4: Naked quad, Hidden quad, Jellyfish//5.2 ---> 5.4 5.4 ---> 5.2
5.6 - 6.0: Bivalue Universal Graves
6.2: Aligned Pair Exclusion
6.5 - 7.5: X-Cycles, Y-Cycles
6.6 - 7.6: Forcing X-Chains
7.0 - 8.0: Forcing Chains, XY-Cycles
7.5: Aligned Triplet Exclusion
7.5 - 8.5: Nishio
8.0 - 9.0: Multiple chains
8.5 - 9.5: Dynamic chains
9.0 - 10.0: Dynamic chains (+)
>9.5: Nested Forcing Chains

One thing I was considering is increasing the space between the current ratings through multiplying all the current ratings by 10 … But then: should we allow overlapping as it is happening now or not? The increase in space can allow adding more techniques in the future if needed …

tarek

[1to9only]

Is the world ready for another rating system?
Take this last puzzle posted in the Patterns Game, it's SE (SudokuExplainer) rated ED=5.8/3.6/3.6

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97.1.85..5.......1....6..7.4.....7....5..4.2.7...5...66..9..3....9.2.....3...1..4 ED=5.8/3.6/3.6


Now take the puzzle's pencilmarks

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........9......7...234.6...1..........34............8.....5......34.6....23..........5.....2.4.6.8..234.6.8..234..7....34..7.9.23...7.9.2.4.6.89..34.6.891........123....8.12.4...8.1234...8..2345.........6....23.5...9.2.4...89......7...23....89...4.....12...6.89123..6.8..23..6.8.1.3....89.23..6..9......7..1.3.5..89..3.5..891.3....8.1....6.89....5......3..678.1.3...789...4.....1......89.2.........3....89......7..12.....89123....8..23....8.....5.....23.....91..4...891.34...89.....6........6...12.45..8.12.4..78.........9...4..78.....5.7....3......1...5..8..2..5.78.1......8.1..45..8.........9..345678..2.........3.567..1....6.8.1...56.8.....5.78..2.....8...3.......2....78.....5678.......78.1.........2...6.89....56.89...4..... ED=5.8/3.6/3.6


Will SukakuExplainer rate it the same ED=5.8/3.6/3.6? Or something else? Will you submit a SukakuExplainer rated puzzle to the Patterns Game?
.

[tarek]

Is the world ready for another rating system?

No, I'm trying to bring it to a more natural solving pathway

Will SukakuExplainer rate it the same ED=5.8/3.6/3.6? Or something else? Will you submit a SukakuExplainer rated puzzle to the Patterns Game?

I should still use Sukaku explainer to rate 81-character-input vanilla sudoku pretty much similar to what players are currently doing in the patterns game. Both puzzle versions above should rate the same under the same resolution rule system. On this occasion the rating will not change even under my rule/rating proposed changes

[coloin]

Sounds like it is more logical

so will "we" regig the windows version of SE and the serate program ?

The overlaps from 6.5-9.5 dont make much sense .. so im sure they could well be rationalized too, i just assume that anything over 7.0 is too hard to even bother solving ....

and of course the 12.0 and above needs careful but arbitrary defining ....

[tarek]

Sounds like it is more logical

so will "we" regig the windows version of SE and the serate program ?

The current release and the one planned in the next 24h should be backwards compatible with serate. All my experimental changes therefore will be backwards compatible but I will not be part of the next release. They will be downloadable to compile from the repository seperately(I'll post the link when it is ready)

Iksudoku's fixes to Uniqueness loops is next on the horizon after I tested my modifications above.

Multiplying the ratings by ten is probably next

tarek

[Pat]

The current rules & ratings (which occasionally overlap): Show

1.0: Last value in block, row or column
1.2: Hidden Single in block
1.5: Hidden Single in row or column
1.7: Direct Pointing
1.9: Direct Claiming
2.0: Direct Hidden Pair
2.3: Naked Single
2.5: Direct Hidden Triplet
2.6: Pointing
2.8: Claiming
3.0, 3.2, 3.4: Naked Pair, X-Wing, Hidden Pair
3.6, 3.8, 4.0: Naked Triplet, Swordfish, Hidden Triplet
4.2, 4.4: XY-Wing, XYZ-Wing
4.5 - 5.0: Unique rectangles and loops
5.0, 5.2, 5.4: Naked Quad, Jellyfish, Hidden Quad
5.6 - 6.0: Bivalue Universal Graves
6.2: Aligned Pair Exclusion
6.5 - 7.5: Bidirectioal X-Cycles and Y-Cycles
6.6 - 7.6: Forcing X-Chains
7.0 - 8.0: Forcing Chains, Bidirectional Cycles
7.5 - 8.5: Nishio
8.0 - 9.0: Cell/Region Forcing Chains
8.5 - 9.5: Dynamic Forcing Chains
9.0 - 10.0: Dynamic Forcing Chains (+)
> 9.5: Nested Forcing Chains

just a minor comment (on the current rating) --

beyond 5.0 add 5.1-5.3
beyond 6.0 add 6.1

[tarek]

just a minor comment (on the current rating) --

beyond 5.0 add 5.1-5.3
beyond 6.0 add 6.1

Thanks …
Has anyone posted an ER=5.2 puzzle which was due a Unique loop (as opposed to jellyfish)?

tarek

[tarek]

just a minor comment (on the current rating) --

beyond 5.0 add 5.1-5.3
beyond 6.0 add 6.1

Thanks …
Has anyone posted an ER=5.2 puzzle which was due a Unique loop (as opposed to jellyfish)?

I found the 6.1 and 5.3 rated puzzles. I probably would need a puzzle example of each technique per rating to see what happens when we work on spreading the ranges. For instance the 5.0 rating which currently could be a naked quad or a unique loop

Tarek

[m_b_metcalf]

Has anyone posted an ER=5.2 puzzle which was due a Unique loop (as opposed to jellyfish)?

I'm away from home at the moment, but you'll find lots of examples of various ratings in this old file, kindly hosted by champagne. I can provide a newer version if required, when I'm back. Maybe what you're looking for can be found there.

Regards,

Mike

[1to9only]

ALL 579 5.2 rated puzzles posted (games 1-358) are jellyfishes.

[tarek]

Thanks both. At least we’ve got the one at the top of the range (5.3). I’m guessing that these 5.0-5.3 unique loop will be rare!

I have the experimental Sukaku explainer in the repository branching from the Master branch. It can be compiled under JDK8 or later successfully. It has now the modified ratings as outlined above. It remains without support for the time being

tarek

[Pat]

5.2 non-Jellyfish
would be even rarer than 5.1

we may need help from 999_Springs
to construct one

[champagne]

Has anyone posted an ER=5.2 puzzle which was due a Unique loop (as opposed to jellyfish)?

I'm away from home at the moment, but you'll find lots of examples of various ratings in this old file, kindly hosted by champagne. I can provide a newer version if required, when I'm back. Maybe what you're looking for can be found there.

Regards,

Mike

The best chance to catch a given missing example for a rating is to print it during a game with a special check. Not too hard to built.
As I am not playing currently (all available cores working in the 17 clues scan) I'll do this only if other potential contributors fail.

[m_b_metcalf]

ALL 579 5.2 rated puzzles posted (games 1-358) are jellyfishes.

Does this include ratings of the form x/5.2/y or x/y/5.2?

Regards,

Mike

[1to9only]

The 579 5.2 puzzles were all 5.2/xx/xx. The xx/5.2/xx and xx/xx/5.2 puzzles are also jellies.