Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby m_b_metcalf » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:46 am

Thanks for both replies. I'll investigate further. M

[Edit] If I've got this right, here's an example of a naked quad at r37c37:

Code: Select all
 . . 3 9 . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 7 . . 4 3 2 . 6 5
 . . . . . . . . .
 5 3 . 6 . 1 . 7 2
 . . . . . . . . .
 3 7 . 2 8 4 . . 1
 . . . . . . . . .
 . . . . . 6 8 . .

but they seem to be very rare.
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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby creint » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:05 pm

Yes correct same as the hidden single. It only saves locked singles.
You can also find locked singles, but yes condition for most of those things is that those 5 cells only have 5 different digits.
It can help in forcing chains. How to apply rating to finding and using hidden constraints. Like the hidden boxes of windoku, those can be detected in runtime.
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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby m_b_metcalf » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:33 pm

The only one from a collection of ~1000 12-clue puzzles, probably due to Mathimagics.

Code: Select all
 . . . . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 . . . . . 1 2 . .
 . . . . 3 . . . 4
 5 . 2 . . . 1 . .
 . . 6 . 7 . . . .
 . . 1 . . . 6 . .
 . . . . 8 . . . .
 . . . . . . . . .
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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby m_b_metcalf » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:45 am

A naked triplet 179 at r1c9, r9c9, r9c1:
Code: Select all
 . 5 . 9 8 4 3 . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . 2
 . . 4 . 7 . . . 6
 3 . 5 . . . 2 . 8
 8 . . . 2 . 9 . .
 5 . . . . . . . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 . . 3 5 4 6 . 2 .
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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby m_b_metcalf » Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:41 am

To wrap this up, and FWIW, here's a selection of rated X-sudokus containing, variously, naked pairs, triplets and/or quads:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
..123456..........5.......3..........64...12..........7.......4..........184273..   ED=2.9/1.5/1.5   
................1.....2........3....1......4.....5..........67.3.5.......82......   ED=3.0/1.2/1.2   
........1.......2.....1.............3.45..6........7......8.....7..2..........4..   ED=3.0/1.5/1.5   
.................123............2.....4........56............3.1...4......7...8..   ED=4.4/1.5/1.5   
................1.23.4.5..............1.6.........7......68..........7.5.........   ED=5.6/1.5/1.5   
.................1....2....2..1.....3.4......5....6....7...........4.8...6.......   ED=6.2/1.2/1.2   
...............1..2.......3.....3....4..........5......1.....5.......2...67.8....   ED=7.1/1.2/1.2   
.12.34.5......1..................6.31.43.67.23.7..................5......4.81.52.   ED=7.2/1.2/1.2   
.................1..2..........3..4....5.6...7.....2.8.3.....6..........8........   ED=7.7/1.2/1.2   
...........12.34...5.......16........376.281........67.......5...21.53...........   ED=7.8/4.0/2.9   
.................12.......3...........4.5.6.......17...3.....2.......8......4....   ED=8.0/1.5/1.5   
...............1.234...5...6....4.7....................2.........8.......1.....3.   ED=8.2/2.9/2.9   
...........12.....34.156.2...........376.815...........7.365.14.....25...........   ED=8.3/1.2/1.2   
.1.2345...................6..4.7...85.1...6.33...6.2..1...................5148.6.   ED=8.4/2.9/2.9   
.1................23.45..6.7.1........28.74........3.7.6..23.54................8.   ED=8.5/1.2/1.2   
..........................1......23.4..5.6.......4..7.1.........3..........82....   ED=8.8/1.2/1.2   
...................1.234.56.7.....8..569.871..9.....2.14.596.3...................   ED=8.9/5.6/2.9   
.1.2345...........4...............637.5...2.438...............7...........7358.1.   ED=9.0/1.2/1.2   
....1..2..........23.456..7..........276.158..........7..963.54..........6..4....   ED=9.0/1.5/1.5   
.............1...23.......4...........1.5.6........7...4.....3.......8.........2.   ED=9.1/1.2/1.2   
.12345.6.......................2.....265.473.....3.......................5.61287.   ED=9.1/2.0/2.0   
....1....2.34567............8.......6..5.1..3.......7............68352.7....2....   ED=9.2/5.6/2.9   

Those with 12 clues are due to Mathimagics.

P.S. Note: rated X-sudokus, and not X-rated sudokus.
Last edited by m_b_metcalf on Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby Mathimagics » Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:04 pm

m_b_metcalf wrote:Note: rated X-sudokus, and not X-rated sudokus.
Cute! 8-)
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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby creint » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:17 pm

Here I found 2 in 1010 minimal generated x-sudokus where of course 95% where unsolved.
Only applied hidden constraints and singles,locked singles,locked sets.
Code: Select all
000000340000000070080000000600082000000500000200400508000000002300900000000700004
068000100000900000000078000570000920000000000000700060004800600000600000002090040

First one very interesting, only requires locked singles and not (SE 5.5 2 x Grouped 2-String Kite X-Loop 01 1 x Unique Rectangle type 4 1 x WXYZ-Wing 249)
(1 locked in diagonal / and 5 locked in | using hidden constraint r36c36+r5c5)

If someone can provide a dataset with easy x-sudokus, like rating < 8.0.
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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby mith » Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:32 pm

m_b_metcalf wrote:P.S. Note: rated X-sudokus, and not X-rated sudokus.


Couldn't resist... an X-rated Sudoku X :P

Code: Select all
+-------+-------+-------+
| 1 . . | . 6 9 | . . . |
| . 6 9 | . . . | 2 . . |
| 5 . . | 3 . . | . 6 9 |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . 4 . | . . 6 | 9 . . |
| . . . | . 5 . | . . . |
| . . 6 | 9 . . | 7 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 6 9 . | . 8 . | . . . |
| . . . | . . . | 6 9 . |
| 2 . . | 6 9 . | . . 3 |
+-------+-------+-------+
1...69....69...2..5..3...69.4...69......5......69..7..69..8..........69.2..69...3  SudokuX
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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby m_b_metcalf » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:30 am

mith wrote:Couldn't resist... an X-rated Sudoku X :P

Reminds me of an old limerick I can't possibly post here.
creint wrote:If someone can provide a dataset with easy x-sudokus, like rating < 8.0.

Attached is a list of 1137 x-sudoku puzzles together with a corresponding file of the ratings (some, ~2%, may not be minimal). The cut-off is higher than you wanted but you can select the ones you're interested in. A selection of the ratings is:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
1.5/1.2/1.2  77             
1.5/1.5/1.5 195             

2.0/1.2/1.2 245             
2.0/1.5/1.5 443             
2.3/1.2/1.2 686             
2.5/1.2/1.2 954             
2.9/1.2/1.2 220             
2.9/1.5/1.5 375             
2.9/2.9/2.9 609   

3.0/1.2/1.2 981             
3.2/1.2/1.21128             
3.4/1.2/1.21050             
3.8/1.2/1.2 419             

4.0/1.2/1.2 553             
4.0/1.5/1.5 357             
4.0/4.0/2.9 729       
4.1/1.5/1.5 284             
4.2/1.2/1.21096             
4.2/1.5/1.5 264             
4.3/1.2/1.2 530             
4.3/2.9/2.9 209       
4.4/1.2/1.2 868             
4.5/2.3/2.3 432             
4.7/1.2/1.2 235             

5.4/1.2/1.2 331             
5.4/1.5/1.5  42             
5.5/1.2/1.2 501             
5.5/1.5/1.5  26             
5.6/1.2/1.2 628             
5.6/2.9/2.9 129       
5.7/1.2/1.21026             
5.7/1.5/1.5 444             
5.7/2.0/2.0 395             
5.8/1.2/1.2 965             

6.1/1.2/1.21105             
6.2/1.2/1.2  24             
6.3/1.2/1.2 388             
6.3/1.5/1.5 202             
6.4/1.2/1.2 190             
6.4/1.5/1.5 829             
6.4/2.3/2.31092             
6.6/1.2/1.2 673             
6.6/1.5/1.51056             
6.7/1.2/1.2 801             
6.8/1.2/1.2 681             
6.8/1.5/1.5 865             

7.1/1.2/1.2 132             
7.1/2.3/2.3 117             
7.1/2.9/2.9 748       
7.2/1.2/1.2 279             
7.2/1.5/1.5 365             
7.2/2.3/2.3 765             
7.2/5.7/2.9 464       
7.3/2.9/2.9 534       
7.4/1.2/1.2 646             
7.5/1.2/1.2 102             
7.6/1.2/1.2 529             
7.6/2.9/2.9 657       
7.7/1.2/1.2 675             
7.7/7.7/2.9 786       
7.8/1.2/1.2 840             
7.8/1.5/1.5  28             
7.8/2.3/2.3 780             
7.8/2.9/2.9 866       
7.9/1.2/1.2 176             
7.9/1.5/1.5 353             
7.9/2.9/2.9 268       

8.0/2.9/2.91019       
8.1/1.2/1.2 249             
8.2/1.2/1.2  55             
8.2/1.5/1.5 275             
8.2/2.9/2.9 574       
8.3/1.2/1.2 350             
8.3/1.5/1.5 426             
8.3/2.9/2.9 296       
8.3/4.1/2.9 996       
8.3/4.3/2.9 187       
8.4/1.2/1.2 412             
8.4/1.5/1.5 477             
8.4/2.9/2.9 204       
8.5/1.2/1.2 285             
8.5/2.0/2.0 837             
8.5/2.9/2.9 371       
8.5/4.0/2.9  33       
8.5/8.3/2.9 612       
8.6/1.2/1.2 995             
8.6/1.5/1.51125             
8.7/2.0/2.0 532             
8.8/1.2/1.2 971             
8.8/2.9/2.9  99       
8.8/4.0/2.9  44       
8.9/1.2/1.2 814             
8.9/2.9/2.9  62       
8.9/5.7/2.9 521       

9.0/1.2/1.2 544             
9.0/1.5/1.5 490             
9.0/2.3/2.3  79             
9.1/2.9/2.9 166       
Attachments
res.txt
(14.43 KiB) Downloaded 60 times
s.txt
(92.16 KiB) Downloaded 61 times
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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby creint » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:19 pm

1137 x-sudoku puzzles found only 9(11) puzzles:
Code: Select all
000000090006000000000050003500070000400900030010600000000000000070080010030090000 < singles 7r3c1 (instead of locked singles SE 2.9)
000200000020000000005000900000090007010000003400000000000940060600073100700000400 < only locked singles (SE 2.9)
600000080009035007000040000007000030050000700800001000000160000080000000000004009 < locked singles and 1 locked set. (SE 5.6)
019000000000000105500000700300000090007000000060800004000090370000000000000200060 < only locked singles (SE 2.9)
040200000007000800000060002000010000003006408060709000000000000000100060004000500 < -9r8c135 x-wing -8r8c3 x-wing (SE 4.3 4xGrouped 2-String kit)
000080002000100000080090000000060000000007800300000900109000000037000400400000070 < fishes (SE 4.3 turbot crane)
060004900700500000030000000000109700290000080000000090000000000040080100000000508 < only locked singles (SE 2.9)
000023000109000000205000000000002703000000000800001000080000000000604025704000000 < singles 9r4c4 (instead of locked singles SE 2.5)
008000000000060000000900000000200000030600085080000320000700090300006000000000014 < only locked singles (SE 5.7)
000285109000000000000001000003000006000000030000800000020507000000400005600032001 < singles 8r2c2 (instead of locked singles SE 2.9)
600000000000001007010000400500037000000000010000050608000000700402080000007900000 < only locked singles (SE 3.0)


Maybe there are some with fishes or higher 'techniques'.

Some more:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
200007000300000000000000000090000000030900400078200060600000094000070000000001300
000041000104800000000030005800100090000070010300050700000000003000000000000020080
000006000004000005008007000650100080000760500000090000000003000800021000100004000
000600150000000000000100407060000900090020060000000008050003002200000000900700800
001340009000000600086000000000000000000007400000200080090001020000000010030005008
000500003000000000005000108020008000009000010060000030006013080900250000000400000
050008000036007920078100000000000819000000000000000500000000060500000000400006000
705200100000046000900000000070000460060000020050000080000000040000008000000007000
000000006300000002000060300000000018000000004503040000000070005009001000100082700
850000006004900070000100200000000400000007000000000007600005000000760010012090000
000000509100000000070050000002300000003007000001000070000006100986000000300000800
089070000030000000000000001000000000000640030003092086010007000000010800007060200
000000042000000805000039006060000910001070000007000000000000000739040000000080000
040000020003000000007020038000800000030000000000001000090008002000406900500003000
004000000030000000700000005000007000000000510900420800040080000600590000000000309
000000000000009200905000000000100009008000315000000008702400003069005000000000400
048000000020706000000000004000002000601000009079000000000010000000000070506000000
000000000000000000005080000000902000070000800040000700000703609008060000000500407
000000000000040800978000300400600035010090060002010000000003208000000010000000000

Hard ones that my solver only can solve when using the hidden constraints:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
000500700024070000500003000000082010000000000080000507000600000001000900802004000
000900080000100000000207010040000000650000002300008005000420000000090000003000400
900000000004000600000200000070040039000000000852000040000800001008005003000000004
000090000004700000000000006679080421500000600000000700700000030000000100020300000
003010070005090008070000000000020005000000000091000000060000093300002000008000004
450002000123080009000030000005000230000000010700050000000000000006008000000060400
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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby m_b_metcalf » Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:34 pm

In this 25x25 X-sudoku there's naked pair '24'25'r4c'4'22' (but it barely effects the solution path):
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
  .  .  .  .  . 20  .  . 11  .  8  .  .  . 10  .  1  .  . 12  .  .  .  .  .
  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
  .  .  .  . 18  1 19  .  .  . 14 12 16  9 22  .  .  . 24 25  2  .  .  .  .
 14  7 15  .  6 12  8 16 10  .  . 13  .  3  .  . 18  2 11 20  5  .  9 17  1
  . 17  . 12  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  2  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . 14  .  3  .
 16 25  3  . 12  .  7  1 18  .  .  9  . 22  .  . 15 21  5  .  6  . 14 24 20
  .  .  .  4  .  6  .  . 19  .  . 16  .  8  .  . 24  .  . 14  .  7  .  .  .
 11  8  . 23  . 22 10  .  . 20  2  . 24  . 12  1  .  . 18 19  .  3  .  5 15
  . 14 20  1 21  . 12 24  . 15  3  5 18 11  7 17  . 22 25  . 16  8 10 19  .
  2  . 19  7  .  .  . 14  .  .  . 23  1 15  .  .  . 11  .  .  .  9 18  . 22
  9  5 25  .  . 24  1 22  4 11  .  .  .  .  .  8 12 19  3 17  .  . 15  2  6
  .  .  . 14  .  .  . 23  .  .  .  .  5  .  .  .  .  4  .  .  . 17  .  .  .
  .  .  8 19 22  7  .  . 12  5  9 20  .  4  3 24 23  .  .  2 13 18  1  .  .
  .  .  . 20  .  .  . 18  .  .  .  . 25  .  .  .  .  1  .  .  . 22  .  .  .
 15  6 12  .  .  9 17 20  3  2  .  .  .  .  . 21 10  7 22  5  .  . 23 14  4
  7  .  4  9  .  .  . 17  .  .  .  8 23  2  .  .  . 14  .  .  . 13  6  . 21
  . 24 22  6 25  .  9 10  . 18  5 14 13 16  1  3  . 23  7  .  4 20  8 15  .
 17 18  .  8  . 21 11  .  . 12 20  . 22  . 19  6  .  .  4 24  .  1  . 16  3
  .  .  .  2  .  8  .  .  6  .  .  4  . 24  .  . 20  .  .  1  .  5  .  .  .
 23  1  5  . 16  .  4  7 20  .  . 10  .  6  .  . 22  8 17  . 18  .  2 11 24
  .  9  . 21  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . 12  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . 15  . 13  .
  1 12 14  .  5 18  6  8 21  .  .  3  . 13  .  . 17 15  2 23 11  . 16 22  7
  .  .  .  . 13  4 23  .  .  . 11 17 20 18 14  .  .  .  8 10 12  .  .  .  .
  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
  .  .  .  .  . 11  .  .  7  . 10  .  .  .  8  .  9  .  . 13  .  .  .  .  .   25x25 X-sudoku
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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby 999_Springs » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:11 pm

mith wrote:
m_b_metcalf wrote:P.S. Note: rated X-sudokus, and not X-rated sudokus.


Couldn't resist... an X-rated Sudoku X :P

if you want x-rated sudokus, i can point you to patterns game 325 that i dealt :P
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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby creint » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:20 pm

Larger puzzles have decreased chance to satisfy the hidden constraint.
Chance of bottleneck cell * having 5 or less out of n candidates.
Your puzzle has many chain bottlenecks. So you won't notice a large chance.
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Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Postby mith » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:30 pm

999_Springs wrote:if you want x-rated sudokus, i can point you to patterns game 325 that i dealt :P


You made my box 1 feel inadequate. :P
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