The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **m_b_metcalf** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:46 am

Thanks for both replies. I'll investigate further. M

[Edit] If I've got this right, here's an example of a naked quad at r37c37:

Code: Select all: . . 3 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . 4 3 2 . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . 6 . 1 . 7 2 . . . . . . . . . 3 7 . 2 8 4 . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 8 . .

but they seem to be very rare.

by **creint** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 5:05 pm

Yes correct same as the hidden single. It only saves locked singles.
You can also find locked singles, but yes condition for most of those things is that those 5 cells only have 5 different digits.
It can help in forcing chains. How to apply rating to finding and using hidden constraints. Like the hidden boxes of windoku, those can be detected in runtime.

by **m_b_metcalf** » Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:33 pm

The only one from a collection of ~1000 12-clue puzzles, probably due to Mathimagics.

Code: Select all: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . 3 . . . 4 5 . 2 . . . 1 . . . . 6 . 7 . . . . . . 1 . . . 6 . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . .

by **m_b_metcalf** » Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:45 am

A naked triplet 179 at r1c9, r9c9, r9c1:

Code: Select all: . 5 . 9 8 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . 4 . 7 . . . 6 3 . 5 . . . 2 . 8 8 . . . 2 . 9 . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 5 4 6 . 2 .

by **m_b_metcalf** » Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:41 am

To wrap this up, and FWIW, here's a selection of rated X-sudokus containing, variously, naked pairs, triplets and/or quads:

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all: ..123456..........5.......3..........64...12..........7.......4..........184273.. ED=2.9/1.5/1.5 ................1.....2........3....1......4.....5..........67.3.5.......82...... ED=3.0/1.2/1.2 ........1.......2.....1.............3.45..6........7......8.....7..2..........4.. ED=3.0/1.5/1.5 .................123............2.....4........56............3.1...4......7...8.. ED=4.4/1.5/1.5 ................1.23.4.5..............1.6.........7......68..........7.5......... ED=5.6/1.5/1.5 .................1....2....2..1.....3.4......5....6....7...........4.8...6....... ED=6.2/1.2/1.2 ...............1..2.......3.....3....4..........5......1.....5.......2...67.8.... ED=7.1/1.2/1.2 .12.34.5......1..................6.31.43.67.23.7..................5......4.81.52. ED=7.2/1.2/1.2 .................1..2..........3..4....5.6...7.....2.8.3.....6..........8........ ED=7.7/1.2/1.2 ...........12.34...5.......16........376.281........67.......5...21.53........... ED=7.8/4.0/2.9 .................12.......3...........4.5.6.......17...3.....2.......8......4.... ED=8.0/1.5/1.5 ...............1.234...5...6....4.7....................2.........8.......1.....3. ED=8.2/2.9/2.9 ...........12.....34.156.2...........376.815...........7.365.14.....25........... ED=8.3/1.2/1.2 .1.2345...................6..4.7...85.1...6.33...6.2..1...................5148.6. ED=8.4/2.9/2.9 .1................23.45..6.7.1........28.74........3.7.6..23.54................8. ED=8.5/1.2/1.2 ..........................1......23.4..5.6.......4..7.1.........3..........82.... ED=8.8/1.2/1.2 ...................1.234.56.7.....8..569.871..9.....2.14.596.3................... ED=8.9/5.6/2.9 .1.2345...........4...............637.5...2.438...............7...........7358.1. ED=9.0/1.2/1.2 ....1..2..........23.456..7..........276.158..........7..963.54..........6..4.... ED=9.0/1.5/1.5 .............1...23.......4...........1.5.6........7...4.....3.......8.........2. ED=9.1/1.2/1.2 .12345.6.......................2.....265.473.....3.......................5.61287. ED=9.1/2.0/2.0 ....1....2.34567............8.......6..5.1..3.......7............68352.7....2.... ED=9.2/5.6/2.9

Those with 12 clues are due to Mathimagics.

P.S. Note: rated X-sudokus, and not X-rated sudokus.

by **Mathimagics** » Mon Aug 31, 2020 1:04 pm

m_b_metcalf wrote:Note: rated X-sudokus, and not X-rated sudokus.

Cute!

by **creint** » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:17 pm

Here I found 2 in 1010 minimal generated x-sudokus where of course 95% where unsolved.
Only applied hidden constraints and singles,locked singles,locked sets.

Code: Select all: 000000340000000070080000000600082000000500000200400508000000002300900000000700004 068000100000900000000078000570000920000000000000700060004800600000600000002090040

First one very interesting, only requires locked singles and not (SE 5.5 2 x Grouped 2-String Kite X-Loop 01 1 x Unique Rectangle type 4 1 x WXYZ-Wing 249)
(1 locked in diagonal / and 5 locked in | using hidden constraint r36c36+r5c5)

If someone can provide a dataset with easy x-sudokus, like rating < 8.0.

by **mith** » Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:32 pm

m_b_metcalf wrote:P.S. Note: rated X-sudokus, and not X-rated sudokus.

Couldn't resist... an X-rated Sudoku X

Code: Select all: +-------+-------+-------+ | 1 . . | . 6 9 | . . . | | . 6 9 | . . . | 2 . . | | 5 . . | 3 . . | . 6 9 | +-------+-------+-------+ | . 4 . | . . 6 | 9 . . | | . . . | . 5 . | . . . | | . . 6 | 9 . . | 7 . . | +-------+-------+-------+ | 6 9 . | . 8 . | . . . | | . . . | . . . | 6 9 . | | 2 . . | 6 9 . | . . 3 | +-------+-------+-------+ 1...69....69...2..5..3...69.4...69......5......69..7..69..8..........69.2..69...3 SudokuX

by **m_b_metcalf** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:30 am

mith wrote:Couldn't resist... an X-rated Sudoku X

Reminds me of an old limerick I can't possibly post here.

creint wrote:If someone can provide a dataset with easy x-sudokus, like rating < 8.0.

Attached is a list of 1137 x-sudoku puzzles together with a corresponding file of the ratings (some, ~2%, may not be minimal). The cut-off is higher than you wanted but you can select the ones you're interested in. A selection of the ratings is:

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all: 1.5/1.2/1.2 77 1.5/1.5/1.5 195 2.0/1.2/1.2 245 2.0/1.5/1.5 443 2.3/1.2/1.2 686 2.5/1.2/1.2 954 2.9/1.2/1.2 220 2.9/1.5/1.5 375 2.9/2.9/2.9 609 3.0/1.2/1.2 981 3.2/1.2/1.21128 3.4/1.2/1.21050 3.8/1.2/1.2 419 4.0/1.2/1.2 553 4.0/1.5/1.5 357 4.0/4.0/2.9 729 4.1/1.5/1.5 284 4.2/1.2/1.21096 4.2/1.5/1.5 264 4.3/1.2/1.2 530 4.3/2.9/2.9 209 4.4/1.2/1.2 868 4.5/2.3/2.3 432 4.7/1.2/1.2 235 5.4/1.2/1.2 331 5.4/1.5/1.5 42 5.5/1.2/1.2 501 5.5/1.5/1.5 26 5.6/1.2/1.2 628 5.6/2.9/2.9 129 5.7/1.2/1.21026 5.7/1.5/1.5 444 5.7/2.0/2.0 395 5.8/1.2/1.2 965 6.1/1.2/1.21105 6.2/1.2/1.2 24 6.3/1.2/1.2 388 6.3/1.5/1.5 202 6.4/1.2/1.2 190 6.4/1.5/1.5 829 6.4/2.3/2.31092 6.6/1.2/1.2 673 6.6/1.5/1.51056 6.7/1.2/1.2 801 6.8/1.2/1.2 681 6.8/1.5/1.5 865 7.1/1.2/1.2 132 7.1/2.3/2.3 117 7.1/2.9/2.9 748 7.2/1.2/1.2 279 7.2/1.5/1.5 365 7.2/2.3/2.3 765 7.2/5.7/2.9 464 7.3/2.9/2.9 534 7.4/1.2/1.2 646 7.5/1.2/1.2 102 7.6/1.2/1.2 529 7.6/2.9/2.9 657 7.7/1.2/1.2 675 7.7/7.7/2.9 786 7.8/1.2/1.2 840 7.8/1.5/1.5 28 7.8/2.3/2.3 780 7.8/2.9/2.9 866 7.9/1.2/1.2 176 7.9/1.5/1.5 353 7.9/2.9/2.9 268 8.0/2.9/2.91019 8.1/1.2/1.2 249 8.2/1.2/1.2 55 8.2/1.5/1.5 275 8.2/2.9/2.9 574 8.3/1.2/1.2 350 8.3/1.5/1.5 426 8.3/2.9/2.9 296 8.3/4.1/2.9 996 8.3/4.3/2.9 187 8.4/1.2/1.2 412 8.4/1.5/1.5 477 8.4/2.9/2.9 204 8.5/1.2/1.2 285 8.5/2.0/2.0 837 8.5/2.9/2.9 371 8.5/4.0/2.9 33 8.5/8.3/2.9 612 8.6/1.2/1.2 995 8.6/1.5/1.51125 8.7/2.0/2.0 532 8.8/1.2/1.2 971 8.8/2.9/2.9 99 8.8/4.0/2.9 44 8.9/1.2/1.2 814 8.9/2.9/2.9 62 8.9/5.7/2.9 521 9.0/1.2/1.2 544 9.0/1.5/1.5 490 9.0/2.3/2.3 79 9.1/2.9/2.9 166

by **creint** » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:19 pm

1137 x-sudoku puzzles found only 9(11) puzzles:

Code: Select all: 000000090006000000000050003500070000400900030010600000000000000070080010030090000 < singles 7r3c1 (instead of locked singles SE 2.9) 000200000020000000005000900000090007010000003400000000000940060600073100700000400 < only locked singles (SE 2.9) 600000080009035007000040000007000030050000700800001000000160000080000000000004009 < locked singles and 1 locked set. (SE 5.6) 019000000000000105500000700300000090007000000060800004000090370000000000000200060 < only locked singles (SE 2.9) 040200000007000800000060002000010000003006408060709000000000000000100060004000500 < -9r8c135 x-wing -8r8c3 x-wing (SE 4.3 4xGrouped 2-String kit) 000080002000100000080090000000060000000007800300000900109000000037000400400000070 < fishes (SE 4.3 turbot crane) 060004900700500000030000000000109700290000080000000090000000000040080100000000508 < only locked singles (SE 2.9) 000023000109000000205000000000002703000000000800001000080000000000604025704000000 < singles 9r4c4 (instead of locked singles SE 2.5) 008000000000060000000900000000200000030600085080000320000700090300006000000000014 < only locked singles (SE 5.7) 000285109000000000000001000003000006000000030000800000020507000000400005600032001 < singles 8r2c2 (instead of locked singles SE 2.9) 600000000000001007010000400500037000000000010000050608000000700402080000007900000 < only locked singles (SE 3.0)

Maybe there are some with fishes or higher 'techniques'.

Some more:

Hidden Text: Show

Hard ones that my solver only can solve when using the hidden constraints:

Hidden Text: Show

by **m_b_metcalf** » Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:34 pm

In this 25x25 X-sudoku there's naked pair '24'25'r4c'4'22' (but it barely effects the solution path):

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all: . . . . . 20 . . 11 . 8 . . . 10 . 1 . . 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 1 19 . . . 14 12 16 9 22 . . . 24 25 2 . . . . 14 7 15 . 6 12 8 16 10 . . 13 . 3 . . 18 2 11 20 5 . 9 17 1 . 17 . 12 . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . 14 . 3 . 16 25 3 . 12 . 7 1 18 . . 9 . 22 . . 15 21 5 . 6 . 14 24 20 . . . 4 . 6 . . 19 . . 16 . 8 . . 24 . . 14 . 7 . . . 11 8 . 23 . 22 10 . . 20 2 . 24 . 12 1 . . 18 19 . 3 . 5 15 . 14 20 1 21 . 12 24 . 15 3 5 18 11 7 17 . 22 25 . 16 8 10 19 . 2 . 19 7 . . . 14 . . . 23 1 15 . . . 11 . . . 9 18 . 22 9 5 25 . . 24 1 22 4 11 . . . . . 8 12 19 3 17 . . 15 2 6 . . . 14 . . . 23 . . . . 5 . . . . 4 . . . 17 . . . . . 8 19 22 7 . . 12 5 9 20 . 4 3 24 23 . . 2 13 18 1 . . . . . 20 . . . 18 . . . . 25 . . . . 1 . . . 22 . . . 15 6 12 . . 9 17 20 3 2 . . . . . 21 10 7 22 5 . . 23 14 4 7 . 4 9 . . . 17 . . . 8 23 2 . . . 14 . . . 13 6 . 21 . 24 22 6 25 . 9 10 . 18 5 14 13 16 1 3 . 23 7 . 4 20 8 15 . 17 18 . 8 . 21 11 . . 12 20 . 22 . 19 6 . . 4 24 . 1 . 16 3 . . . 2 . 8 . . 6 . . 4 . 24 . . 20 . . 1 . 5 . . . 23 1 5 . 16 . 4 7 20 . . 10 . 6 . . 22 8 17 . 18 . 2 11 24 . 9 . 21 . . . . . . . . 12 . . . . . . . . 15 . 13 . 1 12 14 . 5 18 6 8 21 . . 3 . 13 . . 17 15 2 23 11 . 16 22 7 . . . . 13 4 23 . . . 11 17 20 18 14 . . . 8 10 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 . . 7 . 10 . . . 8 . 9 . . 13 . . . . . 25x25 X-sudoku

by **999_Springs** » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:11 pm

mith wrote:
m_b_metcalf wrote:P.S. Note: rated X-sudokus, and not X-rated sudokus.

Couldn't resist... an X-rated Sudoku X

if you want x-rated sudokus, i can point you to patterns game 325 that i dealt

by **creint** » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:20 pm

Larger puzzles have decreased chance to satisfy the hidden constraint.
Chance of bottleneck cell * having 5 or less out of n candidates.
Your puzzle has many chain bottlenecks. So you won't notice a large chance.

by **mith** » Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:30 pm

999_Springs wrote:if you want x-rated sudokus, i can point you to patterns game 325 that i dealt

You made my box 1 feel inadequate.

The New Sudoku Players' Forum

Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules

Re: Revision of SE ratings and resolution rules