The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[Pat]

re: timeout

the recently-introduced quorum (of 4 active players)
is accompanied by a new timeout --

5-day timeout
if quorum not reached

now i worry
that this new timeout
might apply even when 0-1 active players

that would be a waste of a clue-pattern
(ending the game before it had properly begun)

please tell me i worry needlessly---


PS is g.r.emlin asleep ?

[JPF]

About rare ratings:

... but I've written a little utility that tells me how often any given rating has been played. That made it easier to play ratings that were completely new, but with the passage of time there will be ever fewer. I think a brand new rating should get some bonus, less if it's trumped.

I have an idea about the rare ratings bonus :
...

I think you are mixing two different goals:

• One is to list all the possible ratings ER/EP/ED, and for each of them, give a puzzle-example.
  
  Since the ER/EP/ED concept has been introduced (game 14?), I took part in roughly 80% of the games.
  For each game, I rated between 50000 to 100000 + of non equivalent puzzles.
  It means a total of 3M to 6M rated puzzles.
  
  It is probably the same thing for the "permanent" participants.
  At this point, it's more than probable that we could draw up the wanted list (at least for ER<10)
  A new thread could be started for that, if desired.
  I still think that's of little interest.
  
• The main goal of the Patterns Game is to find for a given pattern the different ERs (initial concept) and for each ER, find the best EP/ED (concept games 14+)
  Introducing a rule of rare ER/EP/ED adds a useless complexity, at least for me and obviously for any newcomer.
  In addition the score would indirectly depend on the past games ! and as you pointed out, these bonuses would progressively disappear.

Let's focus on the key points of the game:

• right level of bonuses for the highest rated and the last puzzles to avoid too large score-pendulum, but at the same time to encourage smart strategy
• how to motivate newcomers who don't have the software/CPU power to play and compete against the "professionalism" of the old-timers.
• rules easy to understand
• easy access (detailed explanations on how to use) basic sofwares :
  
  - gsf'programs (generation, minimal, equivalence)
  - serate to calculate ER/EP/ED
  - serate to spot diamond and pearls
• give a chance to a late-comer in a game
  

I do think game #89 was nearly the best one, in term of level of bonuses and competition.
Until the end, the game was opened between the 3 main players.
A last highest ER would have given a winning move.

btw, I would be ready to give (as in golf) some sort of handicaps to the regular winners.

JPF

PS :

please tell me i worry needlessly---
PS is g.r.emlin asleep ?

I love your comments

[gsf]

re: timeout

the recently-introduced quorum (of 4 active players)
is accompanied by a new timeout --

5-day timeout
if quorum not reached

now i worry
that this new timeout
might apply even when 0-1 active players

that would be a waste of a clue-pattern
(ending the game before it had properly begun)

please tell me i worry needlessly---

to be a game there must be entries by at least 2 players not counting the initial deal

PS is g.r.emlin asleep ?

just about all the time
g.r. wakes up every WAIT_POLL to check for new entry posts
and every WAIT_MAIL to check for new pm submissions

[gsf]

::: comment :::
good comments JPF
we can set

Code: Select all

SCORE_RARE_ED=0
SCORE_TRUMPED_RARE_ED=0


and the rare entries will be noted by a post by the referee but will not affect the score
additionally we can set

Code: Select all

RARE_ED=-1

and disable the rare entry checks altogether

[Pat]

should've announced IDLE
on 2009.Sep.22
at 16:40 GMT

[gsf]

should've announced IDLE
on 2009.Sep.22
at 16:40 GMT

the quorum settings are

Code: Select all

integer QUORUM=4         # minimum amount of players to enable idling
integer WAIT_IDLE_NOQUORUM=5*days   # no quorum open->idle transition interval


there are 3 players (g.r.emlin was the dealer but is never counted as a player)
and the last entry was 2009-09-21+18:40:00-0000

[Pat]

oops

[gsf]

oops

well its easy to figure out what's going on with the code and logs at hand
not so by just looking at the forum

[m_b_metcalf]

I do think game #89 was nearly the best one, in term of level of bonuses and competition.
Until the end, the game was opened between the 3 main players.
A last highest ER would have given a winning move.

I, on the other hand, regretted that the last entry bonus was so high that it determined the outcome of the game. We are not bankers. Our bonuses should be commensurate with the overall score.

btw, I would be ready to give (as in golf) some sort of handicaps to the regular winners.

Perhaps, but surely that's just another complication at a time when you're trying to simplify the rules.

I'm happy to go along with anything not subject to wild swings.

Regards,

Mike Metcalf

[gsf]

::: comment :::
here are scores for the current game with different score settings
config.89 for game 89 settings, config.90 for the current settings,
91a and 91b are possible settings for the next game

Code: Select all

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

=== config.89 ===
SCORE_HIGHEST=0
SCORE_HIGHEST_PERCENT=25
SCORE_LAST=0
SCORE_LAST_PERCENT=25
SCORE_RARE_ED=0
SCORE_TRUMPED_RARE_ED=0

       submitter  entries  score  response  notes
     -----------  -------  -----  --------  -----
             JPF        6    366     4h20m  pearl*2
     m_b_metcalf       17   1208     1h08m  diamond*2,pearl*11
             gsf       34   3104    48m05s  diamond*3,pearl*17,highest-rating=73,last-entry=921
     -----------  -------  -----            -----
               3       57   4678            diamond*5,pearl*30

=== config.90 ===
SCORE_HIGHEST=0
SCORE_HIGHEST_PERCENT=10
SCORE_LAST=0
SCORE_LAST_PERCENT=5
SCORE_RARE_ED=200
SCORE_TRUMPED_RARE_ED=50

       submitter  entries  score  response  notes
     -----------  -------  -----  --------  -----
             JPF        6   1066     4h20m  rare-1*2,pearl*2
     m_b_metcalf       17   5858     1h08m  rare-0*8,rare-1*3,rare-2*3,diamond*2,pearl*11
             gsf       34   6715    48m05s  rare-0*3,rare-1*3,rare-2,diamond*3,pearl*17,highest-rating=269,last-entry=636
     -----------  -------  -----            -----
               3       57  13639            rare-0*11,rare-1*8,rare-2*4,diamond*5,pearl*30

=== config.91a ===
SCORE_HIGHEST=0
SCORE_HIGHEST_PERCENT=10
SCORE_LAST=0
SCORE_LAST_PERCENT=5
SCORE_RARE_ED=0
SCORE_TRUMPED_RARE_ED=0

       submitter  entries  score  response  notes
     -----------  -------  -----  --------  -----
             JPF        6    366     4h20m  pearl*2
     m_b_metcalf       17   1208     1h08m  diamond*2,pearl*11
             gsf       34   2323    48m05s  diamond*3,pearl*17,highest-rating=29,last-entry=184
     -----------  -------  -----            -----
               3       57   3897            diamond*5,pearl*30

=== config.91b ===
SCORE_HIGHEST=0
SCORE_HIGHEST_PERCENT=10
SCORE_LAST=0
SCORE_LAST_PERCENT=5
SCORE_RARE_ED=25
SCORE_TRUMPED_RARE_ED=10

       submitter  entries  score  response  notes
     -----------  -------  -----  --------  -----
             JPF        6    461     4h20m  rare-1*2,pearl*2
     m_b_metcalf       17   1868     1h08m  rare-0*8,rare-1*3,rare-2*3,diamond*2,pearl*11
             gsf       34   2884    48m05s  rare-0*3,rare-1*3,rare-2,diamond*3,pearl*17,highest-rating=59,last-entry=245
     -----------  -------  -----            -----
               3       57   5213            rare-0*11,rare-1*8,rare-2*4,diamond*5,pearl*30


[JPF]

We are not bankers.

How can you say that?
Anyway, don’t mix bankers and traders.

The purpose of my comments is to give a chance to anybody to participate and have fun with the Patterns Game.

I don’t like the idea that it becomes a battle between 2 to 3 ( pro)players.

JPF

[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0090 idle LIGHTNING 2009-09-26+18:42:35-0000 -- with no further entries the game will close at 2009-09-26+21:00:00-0000 :::

Code: Select all

game 0090 2009-09-16+23:00:00-0000 LIGHTNING duration 4d19h dealer g.r.emlin pages 297-305 (open) 3 players
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    1.2/1.2/1.2 gsf            4.4/4.4/2.8 JPF            6.6/6.6/3.0 m_b_metcalf    8.1/1.2/1.2 gsf
    1.5/1.5/1.5 gsf            4.5/4.5/2.6 gsf            6.7/6.7/2.6 gsf            8.2/8.2/2.6 gsf
    1.7/1.5/1.5 JPF            4.6/3.2/2.6 gsf            6.8/6.8/2.6 m_b_metcalf    8.3/8.3/3.0 m_b_metcalf
    2.0/2.0/2.0 JPF            4.7/2.3/2.3 m_b_metcalf    6.9/6.9/2.6 JPF            8.4/8.4/3.4 m_b_metcalf
    2.3/2.3/2.3 gsf            4.8/1.2/1.2 gsf            7.0/7.0/2.6 gsf            8.5/8.5/2.6 gsf
    2.5/2.5/2.5 gsf            5.0/5.0/3.0 gsf            7.1/7.1/7.1 m_b_metcalf    8.6/8.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf
    2.6/2.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf    5.2/1.2/1.2 JPF            7.2/7.2/3.4 gsf            8.7/8.7/2.6 m_b_metcalf
    2.8/2.8/2.8 gsf            5.4/5.4/2.6 gsf            7.3/7.3/3.0 m_b_metcalf    8.8/8.8/2.6 gsf
    3.0/3.0/2.8 m_b_metcalf    5.6/4.4/2.6 m_b_metcalf    7.4/7.4/2.6 gsf            8.9/8.9/2.6 m_b_metcalf
    3.2/3.2/3.2 gsf            5.7/4.4/2.6 gsf            7.5/7.5/2.6 gsf            9.0/9.0/2.6 m_b_metcalf
    3.4/3.4/2.8 gsf            5.8/1.5/1.5 gsf            7.6/7.6/2.6 gsf            9.1/9.1/2.6 gsf
    3.6/3.2/2.6 gsf            5.9/1.2/1.2 gsf            7.7/7.7/2.6 gsf            9.2/9.2/2.6 gsf
    3.8/2.3/2.3 gsf            6.0/1.2/1.2 JPF            7.8/7.2/2.6 m_b_metcalf
    4.0/4.0/2.6 m_b_metcalf    6.2/2.3/2.3 gsf            7.9/7.2/2.6 gsf
    4.2/4.2/2.8 gsf            6.5/2.0/2.0 gsf            8.0/2.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    open ratings : 4.9 5.1 6.1 9.3-11.4

       submitter  entries  score  response  notes
     -----------  -------  -----  --------  -----
             JPF        6   1066     4h20m  rare-1*2,pearl*2
     m_b_metcalf       17   5858     1h08m  rare-0*8,rare-1*3,rare-2*3,diamond*2,pearl*11
             gsf       34   6715    48m05s  rare-0*3,rare-1*3,rare-2,diamond*3,pearl*17,highest-rating=269,last-entry=636
     -----------  -------  -----            -----
               3       57  13639            rare-0*11,rare-1*8,rare-2*4,diamond*5,pearl*30


[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0090 closed LIGHTNING (idle for 5d02h) -- preliminary results :::

Code: Select all

game 0090 2009-09-16+23:00:00-0000 LIGHTNING duration 4d19h dealer g.r.emlin pages 297-305 (idle) 3 players
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    1.2/1.2/1.2 gsf            4.4/4.4/2.8 JPF            6.6/6.6/3.0 m_b_metcalf    8.1/1.2/1.2 gsf
    1.5/1.5/1.5 gsf            4.5/4.5/2.6 gsf            6.7/6.7/2.6 gsf            8.2/8.2/2.6 gsf
    1.7/1.5/1.5 JPF            4.6/3.2/2.6 gsf            6.8/6.8/2.6 m_b_metcalf    8.3/8.3/3.0 m_b_metcalf
    2.0/2.0/2.0 JPF            4.7/2.3/2.3 m_b_metcalf    6.9/6.9/2.6 JPF            8.4/8.4/3.4 m_b_metcalf
    2.3/2.3/2.3 gsf            4.8/1.2/1.2 gsf            7.0/7.0/2.6 gsf            8.5/8.5/2.6 gsf
    2.5/2.5/2.5 gsf            5.0/5.0/3.0 gsf            7.1/7.1/7.1 m_b_metcalf    8.6/8.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf
    2.6/2.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf    5.2/1.2/1.2 JPF            7.2/7.2/3.4 gsf            8.7/8.7/2.6 m_b_metcalf
    2.8/2.8/2.8 gsf            5.4/5.4/2.6 gsf            7.3/7.3/3.0 m_b_metcalf    8.8/8.8/2.6 gsf
    3.0/3.0/2.8 m_b_metcalf    5.6/4.4/2.6 m_b_metcalf    7.4/7.4/2.6 gsf            8.9/8.9/2.6 m_b_metcalf
    3.2/3.2/3.2 gsf            5.7/4.4/2.6 gsf            7.5/7.5/2.6 gsf            9.0/9.0/2.6 m_b_metcalf
    3.4/3.4/2.8 gsf            5.8/1.5/1.5 gsf            7.6/7.6/2.6 gsf            9.1/9.1/2.6 gsf
    3.6/3.2/2.6 gsf            5.9/1.2/1.2 gsf            7.7/7.7/2.6 gsf            9.2/9.2/2.6 gsf
    3.8/2.3/2.3 gsf            6.0/1.2/1.2 JPF            7.8/7.2/2.6 m_b_metcalf
    4.0/4.0/2.6 m_b_metcalf    6.2/2.3/2.3 gsf            7.9/7.2/2.6 gsf
    4.2/4.2/2.8 gsf            6.5/2.0/2.0 gsf            8.0/2.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    open ratings : 4.9 5.1 6.1 9.3-11.4

       submitter  entries  score  response  notes
     -----------  -------  -----  --------  -----
             JPF        6   1066     4h20m  rare-1*2,pearl*2
     m_b_metcalf       17   5858     1h08m  rare-0*8,rare-1*3,rare-2*3,diamond*2,pearl*11
             gsf       34   6715    48m05s  rare-0*3,rare-1*3,rare-2,diamond*3,pearl*17,highest-rating=269,last-entry=636
     -----------  -------  -----            -----
               3       57  13639            rare-0*11,rare-1*8,rare-2*4,diamond*5,pearl*30


[gsf]

::: more :::

Code: Select all

060000020040507080509000107000703000006000400000906000102000906070102050030000010 3.6/3.6/2.6
090000010040507080702000305000806000009000400000904000608000901070103060020000050 4.2/4.2/3.4
090000020040507080806000703000608000009000500000904000608000209010205060070000030 4.5/4.5/3.2
020000010040507080806000704000601000002000900000309000104000807030705040060000030 4.6/3.4/2.6
020000040040507080603000501000206000007000400000308000108000209090601070030000010 5.9/1.5/1.5
020000040040507080609000703000906000004000100000401000507000802080205060010000090 6.1/1.2/1.2
060000020040507080305000407000701000002000300000204000106000908080605040070000030 6.2/2.6/2.6
060000020040507080703000405000208000008000200000906000102000609090103050070000010 7.2/7.2/7.1
030000090040507080807000502000209000006000900000106000108000403050803010060000070 7.3/7.3/6.6
090000010040507080305000207000908000008000100000701000103000409060403050020000060 7.5/7.5/2.8
060000090040507080805000703000405000006000400000206000103000906070102050080000010 7.9/7.3/2.6
060000020040507080703000905000208000008000200000904000201000409090103050070000010 8.3/8.3/7.7
010000020030405060607000805000709000009000600000603000201000403050104090070000080 8.4/8.4/7.7
070000010040507080506000207000608000008000100000701000103000409060403020050000060 9.0/9.0/3.0
090000050040507080205000307000708000008000400000901000603000901070103060020000030 9.3/9.2/2.6


[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0091 start at 2009-09-28+06:00:00-0000 :::

Code: Select all

dealer status

candidate patterns (via private message to g.r.emlin)

   1 m_b_metcalf       1 Pat              17 JPF              87 g.r.emlin

past patterns

   1 claudiarabia      1 pseudocoup        3 g.r.emlin        10 Pat              16 Mauricio
   1 draco             1 ravel             9 gsf              14 coloin           19 tarek
   1 Eioru             1 wintder           9 m_b_metcalf      16 JPF              19 TTHsieh