The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **champagne** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:51 pm

Code: Select all: 12...3..4 5....1.36 ...75..2. ..8....1. ..1...3.. 64....8.. ....47... .139..... 96....... ED=4.6/4.6/2.6

yes but less than 10 including one self trump

by **1to9only** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:35 pm

Code: Select all: 7 2 . . . 5 . . 6 6 . . . . 4 . 5 1 . . . 6 9 . . 7 . . . 2 . . . . 1 . . . 8 . . . 3 . . 9 6 . . . . 8 . . . . . . 3 9 . . . . 5 7 8 . . . . . 1 9 . . . . . . . ED=5.0/5.0/2.6

by **g.r.emlin** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:39 pm

::: game 0333 status 2018-12-04+14:39:35-0000 :::

Code: Select all: game 0333 2018-11-28+20:00:00-0000 duration 5d18h dealer 999_Springs pages 2630-2639 (open) 6 players _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1.2/1.2/1.2 m_b_metcalf 4.5/4.5/2.6 1to9only 6.2/6.2/6.2 m_b_metcalf 8.0/7.3/2.6 champagne 1.5/1.5/1.5 1to9only 4.6/4.6/2.6 champagne 6.5/4.0/2.6 champagne 8.1/1.2/1.2 champagne 1.7/1.5/1.5 m_b_metcalf 4.7/3.0/2.6 999_Springs 6.6/6.6/3.6 champagne 8.2/8.2/8.2 champagne 2.0/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf 4.8/3.0/2.6 champagne 6.7/6.7/2.6 m_b_metcalf 8.3/8.3/8.3 1to9only 2.3/2.3/2.3 m_b_metcalf 4.9/3.4/2.6 champagne 6.8/6.8/2.6 champagne 8.4/8.4/8.4 1to9only 2.5/2.5/2.5 m_b_metcalf 5.0/5.0/2.6 1to9only 6.9/6.2/2.6 champagne 8.5/8.5/8.5 1to9only 2.6/2.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf 5.1/1.2/1.2 1to9only 7.0/7.0/7.0 champagne 8.6/8.6/8.6 Robbie 2.8/2.6/2.6 1to9only 5.2/1.2/1.2 Pat 7.1/7.1/7.1 1to9only 8.7/8.7/8.7 1to9only 3.0/3.0/3.0 1to9only 5.3/1.2/1.2 999_Springs 7.2/7.2/7.2 m_b_metcalf 8.8/8.8/8.8 1to9only 3.2/2.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf 5.4/5.4/2.6 1to9only 7.3/7.3/7.3 999_Springs 8.9/8.9/8.9 Robbie 3.4/3.4/3.4 m_b_metcalf 5.6/5.4/2.6 champagne 7.4/7.4/7.2 Robbie 9.0/9.0/8.8 champagne 3.6/3.6/3.6 m_b_metcalf 5.7/4.0/2.6 m_b_metcalf 7.5/7.5/7.2 Robbie 9.1/9.1/8.9 1to9only 3.8/3.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf 5.8/1.2/1.2 m_b_metcalf 7.6/7.6/7.2 Robbie 9.2/9.2/8.9 champagne 4.0/4.0/4.0 999_Springs 5.9/4.0/2.6 champagne 7.7/7.7/2.6 1to9only 9.3/9.3/8.8 1to9only 4.2/4.2/4.0 1to9only 6.0/1.2/1.2 champagne 7.8/7.8/2.6 1to9only 9.4/1.2/1.2 1to9only 4.4/4.4/3.6 m_b_metcalf 6.1/1.2/1.2 champagne 7.9/7.9/2.6 1to9only 9.5/1.2/1.2 1to9only _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ rare ratings : 5.3 open ratings : 9.6-11.8 submitter entries score response notes ----------- ------- ----- -------- ----- Pat 1 81 5h37m 999_Springs 4 412 4h54m rare-0*2,diamond*2,dealer Robbie 5 693 9m47s diamond*2,pearl*3 m_b_metcalf 16 703 1h23m rare-0,rare-1*3,diamond*6,pearl*2,bad-submission champagne 17 1826 38m34s rare-0,rare-2*2,diamond*2,pearl*5,bad-submission*2 1to9only 21 2238 50m36s rare-0*2,diamond*7,pearl*9,highest-rating=91,last-entry=279 ----------- ------- ----- ----- 6 64 5953 rare-0*6,rare-1*3,rare-2*2,diamond*19,pearl*19

by **champagne** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:06 pm

Code: Select all: 12...3..4 5....2.67 ...54..8. ..9....3. ..1...8.. 43....6.. ....78... .159..... 97....... ED=4.7/4.7/2.6

by **999_Springs** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:25 pm

::: comment :::

in case you are wondering how i found the 5.3

so i'd known for a while by messing around with SE that a ul10+ with naked quad is the highest rated uniqueness method, rated 5.3 with SE, but to the best of my knowledge it had never been shown to exist.

i took champagne's 4.9/2.3/2.3 from game 179

Code: Select all: .1...2..3 2......4. ..561.... ..2....78 ..9...4.. 6.....9.. ....785.. .5.2...86 8..1...9. ED=4.9/2.3/2.3

solve it to the sticking point where the 4.9 is used (ul6 with naked quad)

Code: Select all: 714..2653 268...149 395614827 .42...378 ..9...46. 68....91. .26.78531 .512..786 8..1..294

find its complement

Code: Select all: ...89.... ...735... ......... 1..569... 57.381..2 ..3427..5 4..9..... 9...43... .37.56...

extend the ul6 by 4 cells (37 in blocks 1 and 3; move 3r9c2 to r9c1). then, move the 49 pair in b7 to c3 (explained later)

Code: Select all: 7..89...3 ...735... .3......7 1..569... 57.381..2 ..3427..5 ..49..... ..9.43... 3.7.56...

(*) find any solution of this puzzle

Code: Select all: 761894523 298735614 435612987 142569738 576381492 983427165 624978351 859143276 317256849

find the complement

Code: Select all: .61..452. 298...614 4.561298. .42...738 ..6...49. 98....16. 62..78351 85.1..276 .1.2..849

this is now se 5.3. to make it symmetric for patterns game purposes, remove clues to make it symmetric and check that this still gives a valid puzzle, if not then go back to (*) and try another solution. this is why i moved the 49 pair to c3 earlier because i wasn't having any luck with it in c1

Code: Select all: .61..452. 29....614 4.561.... ..2....38 ..6...4.. 9.....1.. 62..78351 85.1..276 .1.2..849

make it minimal and hope it's still symmetric

Code: Select all: .....452. .......14 ...61.... ..2....38 ..6...4.. 9.....1.. 6...78... 85.1....6 .1.2...49

turn it upside down and swap the last 2 rows and columns to make the puzzle look nicer

Code: Select all: 94...2..1 6....1.85 ...87..6. ..1....9. ..4...6.. 83....2.. ....16... .254..... 41.......

voila, you now have a patterns game worthy 5.3. i used similar methods to tweak puzzles for the maximum clues per se rating thread

now the thing about this puzzle is that the ul10 with naked quad is a bit of a phoney because se misses the hidden pair in c6, which makes it simpler, until after the ul10 with naked quad eliminates a bunch of candidates from the hidden pair. this is a bug with se that is known in some form or another in that it misses ur/ul's with hidden subsets if the overlap contains more than a certain number of candidates in each cell.

if you want a more genuine 5.3 you can do the same method to dobrichev's 4.9/1.2/1.2 from game 310 and get this

Code: Select all: 1..52.3.. .....4.5. .....16.. ...4..2.3 7...8.56. .3..1...9 3.5...1.. .....8..6 4.6...92.

which is a much more satisfactory minimal 5.3, but there is no way i could make this symmetric.

champagne wrote:
m_b_metcalf wrote:
999_Springs wrote: I only have the surprise, a 9.0 trump and a load of rubbish.

Well, let's see the colour of your money!

after private messages, I have a good idea of the surprise

I am trying to find my own one, but without any success so far

i was talking earlier with champagne for help about various methods on how to generate symmetric minimal 5.3's, given that we had examples of 5.3's as proof of concept, but wanted to make it playable in the patterns game. in case anyone is interested in the content of the private messages, here are a sample of them. i sent a few of them to myself by accident.

edit: champagne that 4.7 doesn't count, you didn't post a gif of trump underneath it

by **1to9only** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:05 pm

Code: Select all: 4 9 . . . 2 . . 8 2 . . . . 8 . 6 4 . . . 1 4 . . 2 . . . 7 . . . . 4 . . . 9 . . . 3 . . 6 5 . . . . 7 . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . 8 2 7 . . . . . 3 6 . . . . . . . ED=3.2/3.0/2.6

by **champagne** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:40 pm

Code: Select all: 12...6..4 5....2.61 ...71..2. ..3....1. ..8...9.. 49....5.. ....27... .459..... 86....... ED=3.2/3.0/3.0

by **1to9only** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:03 pm

Code: Select all: 3 7 . . . 9 . . 8 8 . . . . 2 . 1 6 . . . 4 8 . . 7 . . . 7 . . . . 4 . . . 9 . . . 7 . . 2 3 . . . . 8 . . . . . . 6 1 . . . . 5 3 9 . . . . . 1 4 . . . . . . . ED=5.2/1.5/1.5

by **champagne** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:36 am

Code: Select all: 12...3..4 5....2.36 ...47..8. ..3....6. ..1...4.. 76....9.. ....64... .729..... 91....... ED=5.2/2.6/2.6

by **1to9only** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:19 am

Code: Select all: 4 7 . . . 6 . . 9 2 . . . . 7 . 6 1 . . . 5 2 . . 4 . . . 8 . . . . 5 . . . 7 . . . 4 . . 9 3 . . . . 8 . . . . . . 9 2 . . . . 9 2 8 . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . ED=5.8/2.6/2.6

by **champagne** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:08 am

Code: Select all: 12...3..4 5....4.67 ...85..2. ..9....3. ..2...7.. 76....9.. ....48... .716..... 94....... ED=5.8/3.6/3.6

by **1to9only** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:06 pm

Code: Select all: 4 9 . . . 5 . . 7 7 . . . . 9 . 3 2 . . . 7 8 . . 6 . . . 4 . . . . 8 . . . 5 . . . 2 . . 8 6 . . . . 7 . . . . . . 6 1 . . . . 8 1 5 . . . . . 2 4 . . . . . . . ED=6.0/1.5/1.5

by **champagne** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:57 pm

Code: Select all: 12...6..4 3....1.56 ...74..8. ..3....6. ..2...5.. 85....9.. ....97... .895..... 63....... ED=3.8/3.6/3.6

by **m_b_metcalf** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:25 pm

Code: Select all: 7 2 . . . 1 . . 3 3 . . . . 2 . 9 6 . . . 3 4 . . 8 . . . 7 . . . . 4 . . . 1 . . . 6 . . 8 4 . . . . 3 . . . . . . 8 5 . . . . 8 5 1 . . . . . 6 7 . . . . . . . ED=6.0/2.3/2.3

by **g.r.emlin** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:27 pm

::: game 0333 status 2018-12-05+14:27:21-0000 :::

Code: Select all: game 0333 2018-11-28+20:00:00-0000 duration 6d18h dealer 999_Springs pages 2630-2640 (open) 6 players _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1.2/1.2/1.2 m_b_metcalf 4.5/4.5/2.6 1to9only 6.2/6.2/6.2 m_b_metcalf 8.0/7.3/2.6 champagne 1.5/1.5/1.5 1to9only 4.6/4.6/2.6 champagne 6.5/4.0/2.6 champagne 8.1/1.2/1.2 champagne 1.7/1.5/1.5 m_b_metcalf 4.7/4.7/2.6 champagne 6.6/6.6/3.6 champagne 8.2/8.2/8.2 champagne 2.0/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf 4.8/3.0/2.6 champagne 6.7/6.7/2.6 m_b_metcalf 8.3/8.3/8.3 1to9only 2.3/2.3/2.3 m_b_metcalf 4.9/3.4/2.6 champagne 6.8/6.8/2.6 champagne 8.4/8.4/8.4 1to9only 2.5/2.5/2.5 m_b_metcalf 5.0/5.0/2.6 1to9only 6.9/6.2/2.6 champagne 8.5/8.5/8.5 1to9only 2.6/2.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf 5.1/1.2/1.2 1to9only 7.0/7.0/7.0 champagne 8.6/8.6/8.6 Robbie 2.8/2.6/2.6 1to9only 5.2/2.6/2.6 champagne 7.1/7.1/7.1 1to9only 8.7/8.7/8.7 1to9only 3.0/3.0/3.0 1to9only 5.3/1.2/1.2 999_Springs 7.2/7.2/7.2 m_b_metcalf 8.8/8.8/8.8 1to9only 3.2/3.0/3.0 champagne 5.4/5.4/2.6 1to9only 7.3/7.3/7.3 999_Springs 8.9/8.9/8.9 Robbie 3.4/3.4/3.4 m_b_metcalf 5.6/5.4/2.6 champagne 7.4/7.4/7.2 Robbie 9.0/9.0/8.8 champagne 3.6/3.6/3.6 m_b_metcalf 5.7/4.0/2.6 m_b_metcalf 7.5/7.5/7.2 Robbie 9.1/9.1/8.9 1to9only 3.8/3.6/3.6 champagne 5.8/3.6/3.6 champagne 7.6/7.6/7.2 Robbie 9.2/9.2/8.9 champagne 4.0/4.0/4.0 999_Springs 5.9/4.0/2.6 champagne 7.7/7.7/2.6 1to9only 9.3/9.3/8.8 1to9only 4.2/4.2/4.0 1to9only 6.0/2.3/2.3 m_b_metcalf 7.8/7.8/2.6 1to9only 9.4/1.2/1.2 1to9only 4.4/4.4/3.6 m_b_metcalf 6.1/1.2/1.2 champagne 7.9/7.9/2.6 1to9only 9.5/1.2/1.2 1to9only _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ rare ratings : 5.3 open ratings : 9.6-11.8 submitter entries score response notes ----------- ------- ----- -------- ----- Pat 0 0 5h37m 999_Springs 3 322 4h54m rare-0*2,diamond*2,dealer Robbie 5 693 9m47s diamond*2,pearl*3 m_b_metcalf 14 1022 1h23m rare-0,rare-1*3,diamond*6,pearl*2,last-entry=290,bad-submission 1to9only 21 1868 1h11m rare-0*2,diamond*7,pearl*9,highest-rating=91 champagne 21 2292 47m01s rare-0,rare-2*2,diamond*2,pearl*6,bad-submission*2 ----------- ------- ----- ----- 6 64 6197 rare-0*6,rare-1*3,rare-2*2,diamond*19,pearl*20

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