Patterns Game

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Re: Patterns Game

Postby champagne » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:51 pm

Code: Select all
12...3..4
5....1.36
...75..2.
..8....1.
..1...3..
64....8..
....47...
.139.....
96....... ED=4.6/4.6/2.6


yes but less than 10 including one self trump ;)
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Re: Patterns Game

Postby 1to9only » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:35 pm

Code: Select all
7 2 . . . 5 . . 6
6 . . . . 4 . 5 1
. . . 6 9 . . 7 .
. . 2 . . . . 1 .
. . 8 . . . 3 . .
9 6 . . . . 8 . .
. . . . 3 9 . . .
. 5 7 8 . . . . .
1 9 . . . . . . . ED=5.0/5.0/2.6
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Postby g.r.emlin » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:39 pm

::: game 0333 status 2018-12-04+14:39:35-0000 :::
Code: Select all
game 0333 2018-11-28+20:00:00-0000 duration 5d18h dealer 999_Springs pages 2630-2639 (open) 6 players
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    1.2/1.2/1.2 m_b_metcalf    4.5/4.5/2.6 1to9only       6.2/6.2/6.2 m_b_metcalf    8.0/7.3/2.6 champagne
    1.5/1.5/1.5 1to9only       4.6/4.6/2.6 champagne      6.5/4.0/2.6 champagne      8.1/1.2/1.2 champagne
    1.7/1.5/1.5 m_b_metcalf    4.7/3.0/2.6 999_Springs    6.6/6.6/3.6 champagne      8.2/8.2/8.2 champagne
    2.0/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    4.8/3.0/2.6 champagne      6.7/6.7/2.6 m_b_metcalf    8.3/8.3/8.3 1to9only
    2.3/2.3/2.3 m_b_metcalf    4.9/3.4/2.6 champagne      6.8/6.8/2.6 champagne      8.4/8.4/8.4 1to9only
    2.5/2.5/2.5 m_b_metcalf    5.0/5.0/2.6 1to9only       6.9/6.2/2.6 champagne      8.5/8.5/8.5 1to9only
    2.6/2.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf    5.1/1.2/1.2 1to9only       7.0/7.0/7.0 champagne      8.6/8.6/8.6 Robbie
    2.8/2.6/2.6 1to9only       5.2/1.2/1.2 Pat            7.1/7.1/7.1 1to9only       8.7/8.7/8.7 1to9only
    3.0/3.0/3.0 1to9only       5.3/1.2/1.2 999_Springs    7.2/7.2/7.2 m_b_metcalf    8.8/8.8/8.8 1to9only
    3.2/2.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf    5.4/5.4/2.6 1to9only       7.3/7.3/7.3 999_Springs    8.9/8.9/8.9 Robbie
    3.4/3.4/3.4 m_b_metcalf    5.6/5.4/2.6 champagne      7.4/7.4/7.2 Robbie         9.0/9.0/8.8 champagne
    3.6/3.6/3.6 m_b_metcalf    5.7/4.0/2.6 m_b_metcalf    7.5/7.5/7.2 Robbie         9.1/9.1/8.9 1to9only
    3.8/3.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf    5.8/1.2/1.2 m_b_metcalf    7.6/7.6/7.2 Robbie         9.2/9.2/8.9 champagne
    4.0/4.0/4.0 999_Springs    5.9/4.0/2.6 champagne      7.7/7.7/2.6 1to9only       9.3/9.3/8.8 1to9only
    4.2/4.2/4.0 1to9only       6.0/1.2/1.2 champagne      7.8/7.8/2.6 1to9only       9.4/1.2/1.2 1to9only
    4.4/4.4/3.6 m_b_metcalf    6.1/1.2/1.2 champagne      7.9/7.9/2.6 1to9only       9.5/1.2/1.2 1to9only
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    rare ratings : 5.3

    open ratings : 9.6-11.8

       submitter  entries  score  response  notes
     -----------  -------  -----  --------  -----
             Pat        1     81     5h37m 
     999_Springs        4    412     4h54m  rare-0*2,diamond*2,dealer
          Robbie        5    693     9m47s  diamond*2,pearl*3
     m_b_metcalf       16    703     1h23m  rare-0,rare-1*3,diamond*6,pearl*2,bad-submission
       champagne       17   1826    38m34s  rare-0,rare-2*2,diamond*2,pearl*5,bad-submission*2
        1to9only       21   2238    50m36s  rare-0*2,diamond*7,pearl*9,highest-rating=91,last-entry=279
     -----------  -------  -----            -----
               6       64   5953            rare-0*6,rare-1*3,rare-2*2,diamond*19,pearl*19
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Re: Patterns Game

Postby champagne » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:06 pm

Code: Select all
12...3..4
5....2.67
...54..8.
..9....3.
..1...8..
43....6..
....78...
.159.....
97....... ED=4.7/4.7/2.6
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Location: France Brittany

Re: Patterns Game

Postby 999_Springs » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:25 pm

::: comment :::

in case you are wondering how i found the 5.3

so i'd known for a while by messing around with SE that a ul10+ with naked quad is the highest rated uniqueness method, rated 5.3 with SE, but to the best of my knowledge it had never been shown to exist.

i took champagne's 4.9/2.3/2.3 from game 179
Code: Select all
.1...2..3
2......4.
..561....
..2....78
..9...4..
6.....9..
....785..
.5.2...86
8..1...9.  ED=4.9/2.3/2.3

solve it to the sticking point where the 4.9 is used (ul6 with naked quad)
Code: Select all
714..2653
268...149
395614827
.42...378
..9...46.
68....91.
.26.78531
.512..786
8..1..294

find its complement
Code: Select all
...89....
...735...
.........
1..569...
57.381..2
..3427..5
4..9.....
9...43...
.37.56...

extend the ul6 by 4 cells (37 in blocks 1 and 3; move 3r9c2 to r9c1). then, move the 49 pair in b7 to c3 (explained later)
Code: Select all
7..89...3
...735...
.3......7
1..569...
57.381..2
..3427..5
..49.....
..9.43...
3.7.56...

(*) find any solution of this puzzle
Code: Select all
761894523
298735614
435612987
142569738
576381492
983427165
624978351
859143276
317256849

find the complement
Code: Select all
.61..452.
298...614
4.561298.
.42...738
..6...49.
98....16.
62..78351
85.1..276
.1.2..849

this is now se 5.3. to make it symmetric for patterns game purposes, remove clues to make it symmetric and check that this still gives a valid puzzle, if not then go back to (*) and try another solution. this is why i moved the 49 pair to c3 earlier because i wasn't having any luck with it in c1
Code: Select all
.61..452.
29....614
4.561....
..2....38
..6...4..
9.....1..
62..78351
85.1..276
.1.2..849

make it minimal and hope it's still symmetric
Code: Select all
.....452.
.......14
...61....
..2....38
..6...4..
9.....1..
6...78...
85.1....6
.1.2...49

turn it upside down and swap the last 2 rows and columns to make the puzzle look nicer
Code: Select all
94...2..1
6....1.85
...87..6.
..1....9.
..4...6..
83....2..
....16...
.254.....
41.......

voila, you now have a patterns game worthy 5.3. i used similar methods to tweak puzzles for the maximum clues per se rating thread

now the thing about this puzzle is that the ul10 with naked quad is a bit of a phoney because se misses the hidden pair in c6, which makes it simpler, until after the ul10 with naked quad eliminates a bunch of candidates from the hidden pair. this is a bug with se that is known in some form or another in that it misses ur/ul's with hidden subsets if the overlap contains more than a certain number of candidates in each cell.

if you want a more genuine 5.3 you can do the same method to dobrichev's 4.9/1.2/1.2 from game 310 and get this
Code: Select all
1..52.3..
.....4.5.
.....16..
...4..2.3
7...8.56.
.3..1...9
3.5...1..
.....8..6
4.6...92.

which is a much more satisfactory minimal 5.3, but there is no way i could make this symmetric.

champagne wrote:
m_b_metcalf wrote:
999_Springs wrote: I only have the surprise, a 9.0 trump and a load of rubbish.

Well, let's see the colour of your money!


after private messages, I have a good idea of the surprise

I am trying to find my own one, but without any success so far

i was talking earlier with champagne for help about various methods on how to generate symmetric minimal 5.3's, given that we had examples of 5.3's as proof of concept, but wanted to make it playable in the patterns game. in case anyone is interested in the content of the private messages, here are a sample of them. i sent a few of them to myself by accident.

edit: champagne that 4.7 doesn't count, you didn't post a gif of trump underneath it :P
Once upon a time I was a teenager who was active on here 2007-2011
ocean and eleven should have paired up to make a sudoku-solving duo called Ocean's Eleven
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Re: Patterns Game

Postby 1to9only » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:05 pm

Code: Select all
4 9 . . . 2 . . 8
2 . . . . 8 . 6 4
. . . 1 4 . . 2 .
. . 7 . . . . 4 .
. . 9 . . . 3 . .
6 5 . . . . 7 . .
. . . . 2 1 . . .
. 8 2 7 . . . . .
3 6 . . . . . . . ED=3.2/3.0/2.6
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Re: Patterns Game

Postby champagne » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:40 pm

Code: Select all
12...6..4
5....2.61
...71..2.
..3....1.
..8...9..
49....5..
....27...
.459.....
86....... ED=3.2/3.0/3.0
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Location: France Brittany

Re: Patterns Game

Postby 1to9only » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:03 pm

Code: Select all
3 7 . . . 9 . . 8
8 . . . . 2 . 1 6
. . . 4 8 . . 7 .
. . 7 . . . . 4 .
. . 9 . . . 7 . .
2 3 . . . . 8 . .
. . . . 6 1 . . .
. 5 3 9 . . . . .
1 4 . . . . . . . ED=5.2/1.5/1.5
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Re: Patterns Game

Postby champagne » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:36 am

Code: Select all
12...3..4
5....2.36
...47..8.
..3....6.
..1...4..
76....9..
....64...
.729.....
91....... ED=5.2/2.6/2.6
champagne
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Location: France Brittany

Re: Patterns Game

Postby 1to9only » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:19 am

Code: Select all
4 7 . . . 6 . . 9
2 . . . . 7 . 6 1
. . . 5 2 . . 4 .
. . 8 . . . . 5 .
. . 7 . . . 4 . .
9 3 . . . . 8 . .
. . . . 9 2 . . .
. 9 2 8 . . . . .
5 6 . . . . . . . ED=5.8/2.6/2.6
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Re: Patterns Game

Postby champagne » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:08 am

Code: Select all
12...3..4
5....4.67
...85..2.
..9....3.
..2...7..
76....9..
....48...
.716.....
94....... ED=5.8/3.6/3.6
champagne
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Posts: 6711
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Location: France Brittany

Re: Patterns Game

Postby 1to9only » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:06 pm

Code: Select all
4 9 . . . 5 . . 7
7 . . . . 9 . 3 2
. . . 7 8 . . 6 .
. . 4 . . . . 8 .
. . 5 . . . 2 . .
8 6 . . . . 7 . .
. . . . 6 1 . . .
. 8 1 5 . . . . .
2 4 . . . . . . . ED=6.0/1.5/1.5
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Re: Patterns Game

Postby champagne » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:57 pm

Code: Select all
12...6..4
3....1.56
...74..8.
..3....6.
..2...5..
85....9..
....97...
.895.....
63....... ED=3.8/3.6/3.6
champagne
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Location: France Brittany

Re: Patterns Game

Postby m_b_metcalf » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:25 pm

Code: Select all
 7 2 . . . 1 . . 3
 3 . . . . 2 . 9 6
 . . . 3 4 . . 8 .
 . . 7 . . . . 4 .
 . . 1 . . . 6 . .
 8 4 . . . . 3 . .
 . . . . 8 5 . . .
 . 8 5 1 . . . . .
 6 7 . . . . . . .   ED=6.0/2.3/2.3
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Postby g.r.emlin » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:27 pm

::: game 0333 status 2018-12-05+14:27:21-0000 :::
Code: Select all
game 0333 2018-11-28+20:00:00-0000 duration 6d18h dealer 999_Springs pages 2630-2640 (open) 6 players
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    1.2/1.2/1.2 m_b_metcalf    4.5/4.5/2.6 1to9only       6.2/6.2/6.2 m_b_metcalf    8.0/7.3/2.6 champagne
    1.5/1.5/1.5 1to9only       4.6/4.6/2.6 champagne      6.5/4.0/2.6 champagne      8.1/1.2/1.2 champagne
    1.7/1.5/1.5 m_b_metcalf    4.7/4.7/2.6 champagne      6.6/6.6/3.6 champagne      8.2/8.2/8.2 champagne
    2.0/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    4.8/3.0/2.6 champagne      6.7/6.7/2.6 m_b_metcalf    8.3/8.3/8.3 1to9only
    2.3/2.3/2.3 m_b_metcalf    4.9/3.4/2.6 champagne      6.8/6.8/2.6 champagne      8.4/8.4/8.4 1to9only
    2.5/2.5/2.5 m_b_metcalf    5.0/5.0/2.6 1to9only       6.9/6.2/2.6 champagne      8.5/8.5/8.5 1to9only
    2.6/2.6/2.6 m_b_metcalf    5.1/1.2/1.2 1to9only       7.0/7.0/7.0 champagne      8.6/8.6/8.6 Robbie
    2.8/2.6/2.6 1to9only       5.2/2.6/2.6 champagne      7.1/7.1/7.1 1to9only       8.7/8.7/8.7 1to9only
    3.0/3.0/3.0 1to9only       5.3/1.2/1.2 999_Springs    7.2/7.2/7.2 m_b_metcalf    8.8/8.8/8.8 1to9only
    3.2/3.0/3.0 champagne      5.4/5.4/2.6 1to9only       7.3/7.3/7.3 999_Springs    8.9/8.9/8.9 Robbie
    3.4/3.4/3.4 m_b_metcalf    5.6/5.4/2.6 champagne      7.4/7.4/7.2 Robbie         9.0/9.0/8.8 champagne
    3.6/3.6/3.6 m_b_metcalf    5.7/4.0/2.6 m_b_metcalf    7.5/7.5/7.2 Robbie         9.1/9.1/8.9 1to9only
    3.8/3.6/3.6 champagne      5.8/3.6/3.6 champagne      7.6/7.6/7.2 Robbie         9.2/9.2/8.9 champagne
    4.0/4.0/4.0 999_Springs    5.9/4.0/2.6 champagne      7.7/7.7/2.6 1to9only       9.3/9.3/8.8 1to9only
    4.2/4.2/4.0 1to9only       6.0/2.3/2.3 m_b_metcalf    7.8/7.8/2.6 1to9only       9.4/1.2/1.2 1to9only
    4.4/4.4/3.6 m_b_metcalf    6.1/1.2/1.2 champagne      7.9/7.9/2.6 1to9only       9.5/1.2/1.2 1to9only
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    rare ratings : 5.3

    open ratings : 9.6-11.8

       submitter  entries  score  response  notes
     -----------  -------  -----  --------  -----
             Pat        0      0     5h37m 
     999_Springs        3    322     4h54m  rare-0*2,diamond*2,dealer
          Robbie        5    693     9m47s  diamond*2,pearl*3
     m_b_metcalf       14   1022     1h23m  rare-0,rare-1*3,diamond*6,pearl*2,last-entry=290,bad-submission
        1to9only       21   1868     1h11m  rare-0*2,diamond*7,pearl*9,highest-rating=91
       champagne       21   2292    47m01s  rare-0,rare-2*2,diamond*2,pearl*6,bad-submission*2
     -----------  -------  -----            -----
               6       64   6197            rare-0*6,rare-1*3,rare-2*2,diamond*19,pearl*20
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