The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[coloin]

Well done for clearing that up ....
So the 11.5 is not new ...i will recheck where my list of "new" hard puzzles is !
C

[Patrice]

Code: Select all

. 1 2 . . . . . .
3 . 4 . . . 5 . .
5 6 . 7 . . . . .
. . 8 4 . . 3 . .
. . . . 2 . . . 9
. . . . . 6 . 2 .
. 4 . 3 . . 8 . .
. . . . . 9 . . 6
. . . . 1 . . 9 .  ED=6.8/2.0/2.0

[m_b_metcalf]

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 . 1 2 . . . . . .
 3 . 4 . . . 5 . .
 6 7 . 4 . . . . .
 . . 5 8 . . 1 . .
 . . . . 7 . . . 6
 . . . . . 6 . 7 .
 . 5 . 1 . . 4 . .
 . . . . . 3 . . 2
 . . . . 6 . . 3 .   ED=8.0/1.2/1.2

[champagne]

when I prepared long long ago some submissions for the game, I selected patterns of the data base of potential hardest with more clues that in the games played.
As far as I remember, I took only patterns with a known 11.x , with various numbers of known puzzles.
In the 20-22 field, so many work has been done that the chances to find new 11.x are very small.
I intend to update the database with old generations mainly in the 25-26 clues field.

BTW this pattern should pass the 80 entries if it has been deeply searched in the 45-62 area

[Patrice]

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. 1 2 . . . . . .
3 . 4 . . . 2 . .
5 6 . 7 . . . . .
. . 8 2 . . 7 . .
. . . . 5 . . . 9
. . . . . 9 . 6 .
. 2 . 1 . . 8 . .
. . . . . 6 . . 5
. . . . 3 . . 9 .  ED=6.9/2.0/2.0

[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0299 status 2017-12-20+17:24:29-0000 :::

Code: Select all

game 0299 2017-12-16+21:00:00-0000 duration 3d20h dealer coloin pages 2344-2351 (open) 4 players
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    1.2/1.2/1.2 m_b_metcalf    5.7/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    8.2/7.2/7.2 Patrice        9.9/9.9/9.8 Patrice
    1.5/1.2/1.2 coloin         6.5/2.0/2.0 papy999        8.3/8.3/7.2 m_b_metcalf  10.0/10.0/9.2 Patrice
    1.7/1.2/1.2 m_b_metcalf    6.6/2.0/2.0 papy999        8.4/8.4/8.4 Patrice      10.1/10.1/9.3 Patrice
    2.0/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    6.7/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    8.5/8.5/8.5 m_b_metcalf  10.2/10.2/9.2 m_b_metcalf
    2.3/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    6.8/2.0/2.0 Patrice        8.6/8.6/7.2 Patrice      10.3/10.3/7.2 Patrice
    2.5/2.0/2.0 Patrice        6.9/2.0/2.0 Patrice        8.7/8.7/3.4 Patrice     10.4/10.4/10.2 m_b_metcalf
    2.6/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    7.0/2.0/2.0 Patrice        8.8/8.8/7.2 m_b_metcalf  10.5/10.5/9.4 Patrice
    2.8/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    7.1/7.1/2.8 papy999        8.9/8.9/8.3 m_b_metcalf 10.6/10.6/10.6 Patrice
    3.0/2.0/2.0 Patrice        7.2/7.2/7.2 Patrice        9.0/9.0/9.0 m_b_metcalf 10.7/10.7/10.4 papy999
    3.2/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    7.3/7.2/3.4 Patrice        9.1/9.1/9.1 Patrice      10.8/10.8/9.6 Patrice
    3.4/2.0/2.0 Patrice        7.4/7.4/7.2 m_b_metcalf    9.2/9.2/9.2 m_b_metcalf  10.9/10.9/3.4 Patrice
    3.8/2.0/2.0 papy999        7.5/2.0/2.0 papy999        9.3/9.3/9.2 Patrice      11.0/11.0/3.4 papy999
    4.2/2.0/2.0 Patrice        7.6/7.6/3.4 Patrice        9.4/9.4/9.4 Patrice     11.1/11.1/10.1 Patrice
    4.4/2.0/2.0 papy999        7.7/2.0/2.0 papy999        9.5/9.5/9.5 Patrice      11.2/11.2/3.4 Patrice
    4.5/2.0/2.0 Patrice        7.8/7.2/3.4 papy999        9.6/9.6/9.6 m_b_metcalf 11.3/11.3/10.8 Patrice
    5.2/2.0/2.0 m_b_metcalf    7.9/7.2/3.4 Patrice        9.7/9.7/9.4 m_b_metcalf  11.4/11.4/3.4 Patrice
    5.6/2.0/2.0 papy999        8.0/1.2/1.2 m_b_metcalf    9.8/9.8/9.3 Patrice     11.5/11.5/11.1 Patrice
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    rare ratings : 11.5

    open ratings : 3.6 4.0 4.6-5.1 5.4 5.8-6.2 8.1 11.6-11.8

       submitter  entries  score  response  notes
     -----------  -------  -----  --------  -----
          coloin        1    -19         0  dealer
         papy999       11    863     1h42m  rare-1,pearl*3,dup-puzzle
     m_b_metcalf       22   1783    47m29s  rare-0,diamond*4,pearl*7
         Patrice       34   4540     1h36m  rare-0*7,rare-1,diamond*6,pearl*17,highest-rating=19,last-entry=340
     -----------  -------  -----            -----
               4       68   7167            rare-0*8,rare-1*2,diamond*10,pearl*27


[papy999]

Code: Select all

. 1 2 | . . . | . . .
3 . 4 | . . . | 2 . .
5 6 . | 7 . . | . . .
------+-------+------
. . 8 | 4 . . | 7 . .
. . . | . 3 . | . . 6
. . . | . . 5 | . 3 .
------+-------+------
. 4 . | 2 . . | 8 . .
. . . | . . 3 | . . 9
. . . | . 9 . | . 5 .  ED=6.2/1.2/1.2

We can play the 1.2 now ?

[Patrice]

there are 85 puzzles with the same minlexpattern !!!

21 of them have a serate rating (9 of them have a serate rating >=11.0 - they cover 11.1, 11.3, 11.4 and 11.5)

Interesting !
How can you verify this so quickly ?
Do you have a way to put these puzzles in the good form for the game ?

I wonder if we have found something new with this game or just "isomorph" of already known puzzles

Hi papy999,
I wanted to explore the domain of highest rated sudoku. So I got the last compilation of champagne on google drive. I put all these in a mysql database, with additional information like pattern, minlexpattern, minlex of the puzzle, clues number, etc...

My first question was about the Pattern Game : what was the contribution of PG to this Potential Hardest list : answer is : a very small number ... and are they high rated puzzles from last games (2 last years) not in the list : answer : very few !

Second question was : are there interesting pattern for the pattern game ? answer : yes many puzzles in the list have pattern that have an symetrical isomorph ... and some with several puzzles 11.x ! I found 112 distinct patterns (non isomorph) each one having at least 1 puzzle rated 11.x (serate or skfr) and more than 50 have not been used in Pattern Game ... I have to submit some more to g.r.emlin (i've already proposed one 26 clues !)

This means that I can use the power of SQL to find needles in this database.

[Patrice]

Do you have a way to put these puzzles in the good form for the game ?

No i've no solution for that now !
I guess that I can write a piece of code that try every permutation of column and line and verify if the result is compliant with the pattern, this means at most 3 359 232 tries... it should take less than 1s to get the puzzle.

And after the puzzle should be rerated by serate !

But this seems like "cheating" to find high rated puzzles...

By the way : what seems interesting to me is :
- Do we have found new puzzles that are not in the DB ?
- Do we have found all the puzzles that are already in the DB ? if not we didn't search well !

And I can answer to these 2 questions with the canonical forms : minlex puzzle and minlex pattern !

Best regards !

[Patrice]

::: comment :::
glups

[m_b_metcalf]

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 . 1 2 . . . . . .
 3 . 4 . . . 5 . .
 6 7 . 8 . . . . .
 . . 7 1 . . 8 . .
 . . . . 3 . . . 9
 . . . . . 9 . 5 .
 . 8 . 7 . . 1 . .
 . . . . . 6 . . 7
 . . . . 9 . . 3 .   ED=4.6/1.2/1.2

[coloin]

- Do we have found all the puzzles that are already in the DB ? if not we didn't search well !

I had a look at my old file

Code: Select all

98.7.....7.....9....2.95...47........3.4..7....6....1....84.3.......6.5......2..1 ED=11.7/11.7/2.6


Edit - ignore - champagne has already added the puzzle ....

[papy999]

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. 1 2 | . . . | . . .
3 . 4 | . . . | 5 . .
6 7 . | 8 . . | . . .
------+-------+------
. . 5 | 3 . . | 8 . .
. . . | . 5 . | . . 3
. . . | . . 7 | . 1 .
------+-------+------
. 9 . | 4 . . | 1 . .
. . . | . . 6 | . . 7
. . . | . 3 . | . 9 .  ED=3.6/1.2/1.2

[m_b_metcalf]

Code: Select all

 . 1 2 . . . . . .
 3 . 4 . . . 5 . .
 6 7 . 8 . . . . .
 . . 5 6 . . 8 . .
 . . . . 1 . . . 9
 . . . . . 7 . 2 .
 . 9 . 5 . . 6 . .
 . . . . . 9 . . 5
 . . . . 2 . . 3 .   ED=4.0/1.2/1.2

[papy999]

Code: Select all

. 1 2 | . . . | . . .
3 . 4 | . . . | 5 . .
6 5 . | 7 . . | . . .
------+-------+------
. . 8 | 5 . . | 6 . .
. . . | . 1 . | . . 5
. . . | . . 2 | . 9 .
------+-------+------
. 7 . | 8 . . | 3 . .
. . . | . . 1 | . . 2
. . . | . 9 . | . 4 .  ED=4.7/1.2/1.2