The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[Patrice]

:::MORE:::

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.....4..9.7.....2...2.7.5......8..9...53..8..1....6..3..7.6.....2.4...6.8....9..1 ED=4.6/4.6/3.4

Sorry, I forgot the "more". I don't know what will happen ?

[Patrice]

:::COMMENT:::

gsf wrote :
(b) SCORE_MORE = 0

Are there game where you turn SCORE_MORE to 1 ? or Do you keep it always to 0 ?

Best regards
Patrice

[ronk]

::: more :::

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.....9..7.6.....8...4.6.2......8..7...15..4..5....7..6..6.5.....5.4...2.3....2..1     ED=5.2/3.8/3.8
.....6..4.9.....8...5.2.9......1..7...94..5..8....7..6..1.5.....4.1...3.3....2..1     ED=5.7/4.2/3.8
.....6..9.3.....6...4.8.5......7..2...95..7..7....1..8..7.6.....5.4...3.3....2..1     ED=8.0/8.0/6.7
.....6..4.1.....3...5.8.6......7..8...74..5..2....3..6..1.4.....2.5...4.3....2..1     ED=8.1/7.2/3.4

[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0131 start at 2011-01-28+04:00:00-0000 :::

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dealer status

candidate patterns (via private message to g.r.emlin)

   1 coloin            2 Mauricio          3 champagne         7 JPF              87 g.r.emlin
   1 ronk              2 Pat               3 m_b_metcalf      32 tarek

past patterns

   1 claudiarabia      1 ravel             3 ronk             16 coloin           26 JPF
   1 draco             1 wintder           9 gsf              19 TTHsieh
   1 Eioru             3 champagne        14 Pat              22 Mauricio
   1 pseudocoup        3 g.r.emlin        15 m_b_metcalf      25 tarek


[gsf]

::: comment :::

gsf wrote :
(b) SCORE_MORE = 0

Are there game where you turn SCORE_MORE to 1 ? or Do you keep it always to 0 ?

when more entries were introduced it wasn't clear if they would be allowed to affect the score
so I parameterized the scoring on SCORE_MORE and set it to 0 for "no effect"
this is probably how it should be
otherwise the score would be changing after the game closed

[ronk]

::: comment :::

(a) bug, some "more" puzzles missed
(b) SCORE_MORE = 0
(c) yes you may post your 4.6

(a) should be fixed starting with the next round
the final tally did not refresh g.r.emlin's post cache

I don't see how this accounts for one puzzle in a "more" post being accepted, but another puzzle in the same post not being accepted.

[daj95376]

::: comment :::

From what I can tell, the more feature is biased in favor of the last player by letting him/her submit cached puzzles. Everyone else is limited to trumping their own posts.

While I understand that the last player is the only one who should have cached puzzles, I think part of the game strategy is to choose which puzzles to post during regular play. There shouldn't be an added benefit for having puzzles that you chose not to post. When a game is "closed", then it should really be closed!

[Patrice]

:::comment:::
Hi, I just wanted to understand the rules of this Patterns Game.

I think that it's better to have a neat closing of the game with no additional points for more puzzles... This means also that points at closing are the same that points at "final" !

It is also interesting to see the "stock" that other player could produce... to get ideas to enhance the search algorithms or filters.

For instance in that last game 130, with the "more" puzzles of Ronk, I've seen that he could trump 3 of my posts. This shows that I've a lot more to impove my game.

I've no time to participate to the next one.
Have a good game 131 !!

Patrice

[gsf]

::: comment :::

(a) bug, some "more" puzzles missed
(b) SCORE_MORE = 0
(c) yes you may post your 4.6

(a) should be fixed starting with the next round
the final tally did not refresh g.r.emlin's post cache

I don't see how this accounts for one puzzle in a "more" post being accepted, but another puzzle in the same post not being accepted.

aha, I though an entire post was skipped
what puzzle(s) were skipped within a single ::: more ::: post?

[gsf]

::: comment :::

From what I can tell, the more feature is biased in favor of the last player by letting him/her submit cached puzzles. Everyone else is limited to trumping their own posts.

While I understand that the last player is the only one who should have cached puzzles, I think part of the game strategy is to choose which puzzles to post during regular play. There shouldn't be an added benefit for having puzzles that you chose not to post. When a game is "closed", then it should really be closed!

if the ::: more ::: posts affected the score then there would be bias (and probably some weird new strategies)
but with SCORE_MORE==0 the ::: more ::: posts don't affect the score

::: more ::: was added for record keeping and to make the final results a more complete data source

at some point in the future the ::: more ::: posts may point to steep/narrow parts of the search space

[ronk]

::: comment :::

I don't see how this accounts for one puzzle in a "more" post being accepted, but another puzzle in the same post not being accepted.

aha, I thought an entire post was skipped
what puzzle(s) were skipped within a single ::: more ::: post?

Patrice recounted two recent instances here. The second puzzle, but not the first, was accepted in the ::: more ::: posts of joel64 here and myself here for game 0129.

[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0131 open 2011-01-28+04:00:15-0000 dealer Pat 21 clues diagonal (main) symmetry :::

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. . . . . 7 . . 6
. . 1 . 5 . . 9 .
. 3 . 4 . . . . .
. . 3 . . . . . 8
. 9 . . 4 . . 7 .
6 . . . . . 1 . .
. . . . . 8 3 . .
. 4 . . 9 . . 5 .
9 . . 6 . . . . .  ED=1.5/1.2/1.2

[joel64]

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. . . . . 1 . . 2
. . 3 . 4 . . 5 .
. 1 . 6 . . . . .
. . 4 . . . . . 3
. 5 . . 6 . . 1 .
2 . . . . . 7 . .
. . . . . 3 4 . .
. 6 . . 5 . . 8 .
5 . . 2 . . . . .  ED=1.2/1.2/1.2


[ronk]

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 . . . . . 6 . . 1
 . . 8 . 3 . . 2 .
 . 9 . 5 . . . . .
 . . 6 . . . . . 7
 . 2 . . 8 . . 4 .
 1 . . . . . 8 . .
 . . . . . 7 6 . .
 . 5 . . 4 . . 3 .
 2 . . 1 . . . . .    ED=6.7/6.7/6.7

[gsf]

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. . . . . 3 . . 6
. . 1 . 5 . . 9 .
. 2 . 9 . . . . .
. . 3 . . . . . 8
. 9 . . 4 . . 7 .
6 . . . . . 1 . .
. . . . . 8 3 . .
. 4 . . 9 . . 5 .
7 . . 6 . . . . .  ED=8.4/6.7/3.4