inferior puzzles thread

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Postby Red Ed » Sat May 20, 2006 7:27 am

Another new one: 22 steps, symmetrically-minimal, type II symmetry.
Code: Select all
8 7 .|. . 6|. . 3
. . 3|4 . .|. . 9
. . .|7 . .|. 4 .
-----+-----+-----
5 . .|8 . 4|9 1 .
. . .|. 5 .|. . .
. 8 1|6 . 3|. . 4
-----+-----+-----
. 6 .|. . 8|. . .
3 . .|. . 1|4 . .
1 . .|3 . .|. 9 6

:!:On reflection, I think that raising the entry requirements to match or improve upon the current best-of-type is too demanding. In order to get to 100, we'd need the keenest four-or-so of us each to match or improve upon five types of puzzle. Maybe we should just say: at least 20 clues and strictly improving upon your own personal best? ab -- what do you think about this:?:

Of course another option would be for ab to roll low-steppers (and maybe asymmetric puzzles) into the list at the start of this thread.
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Postby JPF » Sat May 20, 2006 9:00 am

22 steps, SM, Type VII symmetry

Code: Select all
 . . . | . . 1 | . . .
 6 . . | 9 . 7 | 3 . .
 . . 9 | . . . | . 8 .
-------+-------+-------
 . . . | . . 2 | . 4 8
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 3 2 7 | . . . | . 9 .
-------+-------+-------
 9 6 . | 5 . . | 2 . .
 2 . 5 | 7 . . | . . .
 . 1 4 | 8 . . | . 5 .

JPF
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Postby Red Ed » Sat May 20, 2006 9:21 am

Changing a few digits in JPF's 22-stepper leads to a symmetrically-minimal 25-stepper:
Code: Select all
. . .|. . 1|. . .
6 . .|9 . 7|3 . .
. . 5|. . .|. 8 .
-----+-----+-----
. . .|. . 3|. 4 8
. . .|. . .|. . .
3 2 7|. . .|. 9 .
-----+-----+-----
7 6 .|5 . .|2 . .
9 . 3|7 . .|. . .
. 1 4|8 . .|. 5 .
Ocean's still winning with his fully minimal type VII 25-stepper, though!
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Postby JPF » Sat May 20, 2006 9:38 am

21 steps, SM, Type VI symmetry

Code: Select all
 . . 9 | . 5 . | 7 . .
 4 . . | 3 . 7 | . . 8
 . . . | . . . | . . .
-------+-------+-------
 1 4 . | 9 . 6 | . 5 7
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 . 5 . | . 4 . | . 1 .
-------+-------+-------
 5 . . | . . . | . . 9
 9 . . | 8 . 3 | . . 1
 . 2 . | . 6 . | . 4 .



20 steps, SM, type II symmetry

Code: Select all
 . . 5 | . 2 1 | . 7 .
 1 . . | . 3 . | 5 . .
 . 3 . | . . 4 | . . 9
-------+-------+-------
 3 . 9 | . . . | . . .
 6 7 . | . . . | . 3 4
 . . . | . . . | 2 . 6
-------+-------+-------
 5 . . | 8 . . | . 4 .
 . . 3 | . 1 . | . . 5
 . 8 . | 2 6 . | 3 . .


I know this one is not OK under the old and the new rules..., but I can't resist :
19 steps, SM, type III symmetry
Code: Select all
 8 7 . | . . . | . 1 4
 . 6 9 | . 8 . | 7 3 .
 4 5 . | . . . | . 8 9
-------+-------+-------
 . . . | 6 . 5 | . . .
 . . . | . 7 . | . . .
 . . . | 1 . 3 | . . .
-------+-------+-------
 6 1 . | . . . | . 2 3
 . 9 4 | . 1 . | 5 7 .
 7 8 . | . . . | . 4 6
I'm sure we can do better with it:)

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Postby JPF » Sat May 20, 2006 10:15 am

At the opposite side, for low steppers...
Just in case, not knowing what you intend to do.

2 steps, SM, type II symmetry, 36 clues

Code: Select all
 . . . | . . 8 | 5 1 .
 8 . 7 | . 5 3 | . . .
 1 . 5 | . 7 9 | 3 4 .
-------+-------+-------
 6 8 2 | . . . | . . .
 . 7 3 | . . . | 4 2 .
 . . . | . . . | 8 7 6
-------+-------+-------
 . 6 9 | 3 1 . | 2 . 5
 . . . | 4 2 . | 9 . 1
 . 3 1 | 9 . . | . . .

3 steps, SM, type IV symmetry, 30 clues
Code: Select all
 . 2 . | . 1 . | 5 . .
 8 . . | . 6 7 | 9 . .
 . . . | . . 5 | . 6 7
-------+-------+-------
 . . . | 5 . . | 6 4 .
 4 5 . | . . . | . 2 3
 . 9 2 | . . 6 | . . .
-------+-------+-------
 1 8 . | 9 . . | . . .
 . . 4 | 2 7 . | . . 8
 . . 9 | . 8 . | . 3 .

3 steps, SM, type III symmetry, 32 clues
Code: Select all
 4 . . | . . . | . . 2
 . 2 8 | 7 . 5 | 6 3 .
 . . 1 | . 6 . | 5 . .
-------+-------+-------
 5 9 . | . . . | . 1 3
 . . . | 3 . 9 | . . .
 7 1 . | . . . | . 8 6
-------+-------+-------
 . . 7 | . 3 . | 1 . .
 . 6 5 | 2 . 8 | 3 4 .
 8 . . | . . . | . . 7


*edit : 3 steps, IV, 32 clues deleted *

4 steps, SM, type VI symmetry, 26 clues
Code: Select all
 . 9 2 | . 7 . | . . .
 5 . . | 8 . . | . . 9
 . . . | . . . | 6 8 5
-------+-------+-------
 . . . | 2 9 4 | . . .
 . 1 6 | . . . | . . .
 . . . | 6 1 5 | . . .
-------+-------+-------
 . . . | . . . | 7 3 1
 2 . . | 7 . . | . . 8
 . 3 4 | . 6 . | . . .


4 steps, SM, type VII symmetry, 27 clues
Code: Select all
 . . 3 | 5 4 2 | . 8 .
 . . 4 | . . . | . . .
 8 7 . | . . . | . 9 .
-------+-------+-------
 2 . . | 1 . 8 | . 7 5
 3 . . | . . . | 2 . .
 1 . . | 3 . . | 4 . .
-------+-------+-------
 . . . | . 5 9 | . . .
 5 . 6 | 4 . . | . . 2
 . . . | 7 . . | . 5 .

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Postby ab » Sat May 20, 2006 11:40 am

Red Ed wrote:Maybe we should just say: at least 20 clues and strictly improving upon your own personal best? ab -- what do you think about this:?:


I'm happy with this suggestion. Your public service post renewed interest in this thread Red Ed, I think people like the competitive edge. To go back to posting every puzzle over 20 steps doesn't appeal.
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Postby JPF » Sat May 20, 2006 8:02 pm

22 steps, SM, Type VI symmetry

Code: Select all
 . 2 5 | . 3 . | 6 8 .
 7 . . | 8 . 1 | . . 9
 . . . | . 2 . | . . .
-------+-------+-------
 5 . 2 | . . . | 1 . 4
 3 . . | . . . | . . 7
 . 4 . | . . . | . 5 .
-------+-------+-------
 . 8 . | . . . | . 1 .
 2 6 . | . . . | . 4 3
 . . . | 3 9 2 | . . .

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Postby gsf » Sat May 20, 2006 9:51 pm

can we add a #clues field?
e.g., a 1 stepper with less clues would be harder to come by
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Postby Red Ed » Sat May 20, 2006 10:06 pm

gsf wrote:can we add a #clues field?
e.g., a 1 stepper with less clues would be harder to come by
OK, will do. I'll update the list tomorrow. I'm too shocked at the Eurovision song contest result to do anything more useful tonight ...

In the mean time, here's a symmetrically-minimal 26-stepper type VII puzzle:
Code: Select all
. . 2|8 . .|. . 7
. . .|. 9 .|2 4 .
. . .|. . 5|. 8 .
-----+-----+-----
. 2 .|9 . .|6 . .
9 4 .|. 1 .|. 2 .
. 6 .|. . 7|. . 9
-----+-----+-----
. 1 .|. . .|. . 8
7 . 6|5 8 1|. . .
. 8 .|. 4 .|. . .
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Re: inferior puzzles thread

Postby JPF » Sun May 21, 2006 7:52 am

ab, you wrote:
Code: Select all
 
 puzzle #84 (JPF) 22 steps
 puzzle #85 (Red Ed) 26 steps

actually,
puzzle #84 is Red Ed's, 26 steps
puzzle #85 is JPF's, 22 steps

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Postby JPF » Sun May 21, 2006 8:04 am

Some more steppers, classified by symmetry types :

20 steps, M, Type III symmetry, 26 clues
Code: Select all
 . 9 . | 1 . 2 | . 5 .
 8 . . | . . . | . . 4
 5 . 7 | . . . | 9 . 2
-------+-------+-------
 . . . | 2 8 1 | . . .
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 . . . | 6 9 5 | . . .
-------+-------+-------
 1 . 2 | . . . | 3 . 5
 9 . . | . . . | . . 1
 . 6 . | 7 . 4 | . 2 .


20 steps, SM, Type IV symmetry, 26 clues
Code: Select all
 . . . | 3 . . | 5 1 .
 . . 6 | . 9 . | . . 4
 . 1 . | . 4 . | . . 3
-------+-------+-------
 6 . . | 7 . . | . . .
 . 7 8 | . . . | 4 2 .
 . . . | . . 4 | . . 6
-------+-------+-------
 3 . . | . 2 . | . 9 .
 1 . . | . 3 . | 6 . .
 . 8 4 | . . 7 | . . .


20 steps, SM, Type IV symmetry, 26 clues
Code: Select all
 . . 1 | 3 . . | . . 7
 . . 8 | . 2 . | . . .
 5 6 . | 4 . . | . . .
-------+-------+-------
 9 . 4 | . 8 . | . . .
 . 5 . | 2 . 4 | . 6 .
 . . . | . 5 . | 1 . 4
-------+-------+-------
 . . . | . . 1 | . 8 6
 . . . | . 6 . | 4 . .
 7 . . | . . 2 | 5 . .


21 steps, SM, Type IV symmetry, 28 clues
Code: Select all
 . 3 4 | 6 . . | 1 . .
 5 . . | . . . | . . .
 6 . 8 | . 9 3 | . . 2
-------+-------+-------
 3 . . | 7 . . | 8 . .
 . . 9 | . . . | 6 . .
 . . 2 | . . 8 | . . 7
-------+-------+-------
 8 . . | 3 1 . | 5 . 9
 . . . | . . . | . . 3
 . . 3 | . . 7 | 2 4 .


20 steps, SM, Type V symmetry, 26 clues
Code: Select all
 . . . | 8 . . | . 9 .
 . 6 . | . 1 2 | . . .
 9 . . | . . 4 | 5 . 6
-------+-------+-------
 . . 3 | . . . | . 7 1
 1 . . | . . . | . . 4
 2 7 . | . . . | 3 . .
-------+-------+-------
 8 . 5 | 3 . . | . . 9
 . . . | 1 2 . | . 8 .
 . 9 . | . . 8 | . . .


21 steps, SM, Type V symmetry, 24 clues
Code: Select all
 . . . | . . . | . 7 .
 7 . 4 | . . . | . . 5
 8 . . | . . 2 | . 1 .
-------+-------+-------
 4 8 . | . 9 . | . . .
 3 . . | 5 . 6 | . . 4
 . . . | . 7 . | . 8 3
-------+-------+-------
 . 9 . | 8 . . | . . 1
 1 . . | . . . | 8 . 6
 . 7 . | . . . | . . .


22 steps, M, Type V symmetry, 24 clues
Code: Select all
 . 7 . | . . 4 | . . .
 1 . . | . . . | . . 7
 . 2 . | 3 . . | . 6 5
-------+-------+-------
 . 9 . | . 6 . | . . .
 . 8 . | 5 . 1 | . 3 .
 . . . | . 2 . | . 5 .
-------+-------+-------
 4 5 . | . . 7 | . 1 .
 2 . . | . . . | . . 9
 . . . | 4 . . | . 8 .


23 steps, SM, Type VI symmetry, 25 clues
Code: Select all
 6 . 9 | . . . | 3 . 1
 8 . . | 4 . 3 | . . 6
 . 3 . | . . . | . 5 .
-------+-------+-------
 . . . | . 5 . | . . .
 . . 1 | 8 . 6 | 9 . .
 . . 8 | . . . | 6 . .
-------+-------+-------
 1 9 . | . . . | . 2 3
 3 . . | . . . | . . 4
 . . . | 5 . 1 | . . .



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Postby gsf » Sun May 21, 2006 12:54 pm

here are a few with #clues inserted in field 3
Code: wrote:II,22,32,SM,603900021500103400020700003030000296000000000462000070200001050006807002850002607,gsf,NEW
II,23,28,SM,020009050800600004001037900509000010002000300010000605008760500900008001030200070,gsf,NEW
II,24,28,SM,540030701000102008100000000080060030400207005020040090000000002200806000804020013,gsf,NEW
III,22,24,M,000902000070000050008301400700000001030406090600000004005109300080000060000504000,gsf,NEW
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Postby Ocean » Sun May 21, 2006 1:50 pm

ab wrote:there's even a 38 clue 1 stepper there:
Put on the smallstepper-list, as it is currently the lowest known number of clues for a one-stepper! Also some of JPF's new low-steppers with various symmetries noted as candidates to an 'expanded list'.

A 24-stepper with double diagonal symmetry. 24 clues. Minimal:
Code: Select all
#
# M24. 24 steps. Double diagonal symmetry.
#
. . .|1 . .|. 2 .
. . .|. . .|3 . 4
. . .|. 5 6|. 7 .
-----+-----+-----
8 . .|. 3 .|9 . .
. . 9|8 . 7|4 . .
. . 2|. 9 .|. . 1
-----+-----+-----
. 6 .|2 4 .|. . .
1 . 8|. . .|. . .
. 7 .|. . 3|. . .
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Postby JPF » Sun May 21, 2006 3:40 pm

Ocean wrote:Put on the smallstepper-list, as it is currently the lowest known number of clues for a one-stepper! Also some of JPF's new low-steppers with various symmetries noted as candidates to an 'expanded list'.

Thanks.
Here are two more for this new list :

2 steps, SM, type III symmetry, 36 clues
Code: Select all
 . 7 . | . . . | . 1 .
 . . 6 | 4 . 9 | 2 . .
 . 1 8 | 3 . 5 | 9 6 .
-------+-------+-------
 3 6 . | 9 . 4 | . 8 5
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 4 9 . | 8 . 7 | . 2 1
-------+-------+-------
 . 5 7 | 2 . 6 | 1 4 .
 . . 3 | 7 . 1 | 8 . .
 . 2 . | . . . | . 3 .


2 steps, SM, type IV symmetry, 38 clues
Code: Select all
 . 3 9 | . . 7 | . 6 .
 8 . 5 | 2 . 9 | . 4 1
 7 1 . | 4 . 8 | . . .
-------+-------+-------
 . 2 3 | . . . | 6 7 4
 . . . | . . . | . . .
 9 7 1 | . . . | 3 2 .
-------+-------+-------
 . . . | 9 . 4 | . 3 7
 1 8 . | 3 . 6 | 2 . 5
 . 9 . | 1 . . | 4 8 .

(assuming that the number of steps is the first criterion)

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Postby Red Ed » Sun May 21, 2006 4:58 pm

gsf wrote:here are a few with #clues inserted in field 3
It might be better if you reported the puzzles as 9x9 grids like everyone else. My list is just a reformatted version of ab's, so you need to publish in a way that makes it easy for ab to include your puzzles. If ab won't accept it, I won't record it either. (I'm just sulking because you beat my type II puzzle:( .)

Update: I've recorded puzzles up to #88 in my list. Sorry, gsf, your new ones aren't in there yet --- but I'll do the honours when ab's inducted them into his own hall of fame. But at least I have added a number-of-clues field as requested. The sort order is arbitrary for that field, since I only consider type, steps and minimality in deciding what's best in class.

:!:I think we're over the (artificial) limit of 100 now. Perhaps ab would like to suggest a way of tying off the thread. Perhaps a few more days to submit high-stepping puzzles, replacing low-stepping ones from people who've contributed loads already:?:
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