The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **udosuk** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:42 am

Here are some suggestions on concepts to "teach" your solver some new logic to crack these steps:

evert wrote:
Code: Select all
58|59|54|53|07|08|09|11|13 60|57|56|55|52|06|10|14|12 61|46|48|49|50|51|05|..|15 45|62|47|02|01|04|17|..|.. 63|44|38|37|03|35|..|..|20 43|64|39|40|36|..|..|32|.. 65|42|41|76|74|..|31|..|.. ..|66|..|..|..|72|..|..|.. 81|..|78|..|..|..|26|..|28

Now in cell (8,1) only 80 and 67 are allowed due to cornering.
But the consequence of putting 67 there is that 68 will go into (9,2) which would isolate
81 from 79. Therefore 80 goes into (8,1).

For this, consider (9,2). It must be 79 or 80 (I called this move "bottleneck" above but on 2nd thought perhaps "gateway" is a better name. :idea:

)

Now (8,1) can't be 67 since there is no path to get to the next highest number on the board, 72 (this might be a bit tricky to implement in your solver).

Therefore there is only 1 possible cell on the board for 67: (8,3).

And then similarly only 1 possible cell on the board for 79: (9,2).

evert wrote:
Code: Select all
58|59|54|53|07|08|09|11|13 60|57|56|55|52|06|10|14|12 61|46|48|49|50|51|05|..|15 45|62|47|02|01|04|17|..|.. 63|44|38|37|03|35|..|..|20 43|64|39|40|36|34|..|32|.. 65|42|41|76|74|73|31|..|.. 80|66|67|77|75|72|71|..|.. 81|79|78|68|69|70|26|..|28

Now 27 can be placed in either (9,8) or (8,8).

But after placing 27 in (8,8), cornering in (9,8) would lead to
a contradiction. So 27 must go into (9,8).

This is easier. There are only 2 possible cells on board for 25: (8,8) & (9,8). Also they are the only 2 possible cells on board for 27. As a result, (8,8) & (9,8) must be {25,27}. (This is analogical to a "hidden pair" in sudoku solving. :idea:

)

As a result, there is only 1 possible cell on board for 29: (8,9).

And then there is only 1 possible cell on board for 30: (7,8).

Now "gateway" will force (7,9)+(8,8) to be {21..25}, leaving (9,8) as the only possible cell for 27.

:idea:

by **evert** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:05 am

done...
Some puzzles with bottleneck:

Code: Select all: 44;..;..;50;..;..;..;..;.. 42;45;47;..;..;70;..;64;.. ..;..;32;31;55;..;73;63;.. ..;..;..;..;..;..;74;..;62 ..;15;39;29;..;..;75;..;61 ..;..;..;..;..;..;..;01;02 ..;..;37;..;..;77;05;..;.. 21;..;23;..;..;79;..;..;.. ..;19;..;..;..;..;..;..;07 ..;..;55;..;48;10;..;..;.. 52;51;..;49;..;..;09;07;.. ..;..;..;43;..;..;13;79;.. ..;..;..;..;44;15;..;78;.. ..;..;62;..;..;..;02;01;.. ..;..;40;..;..;..;74;..;.. 37;35;..;..;20;..;24;..;.. ..;30;..;..;65;..;..;..;.. ..;..;31;27;..;..;..;..;.. ..;..;..;..;..;81;..;01;.. ..;49;..;..;09;..;02;..;.. ..;..;..;..;..;..;..;75;.. 53;..;43;07;41;..;..;..;.. ..;..;55;..;39;14;..;..;71 ..;31;..;..;..;58;16;..;70 ..;30;..;21;..;19;..;..;.. 27;..;..;22;..;..;..;66;.. ..;26;23;..;..;62;65;..;.. 55;..;..;..;..;78;..;..;.. ..;56;51;..;49;..;47;23;.. ..;..;..;..;..;..;..;44;.. ..;..;73;28;29;..;..;..;.. ..;..;61;..;..;18;..;..;41 ..;62;..;16;17;..;..;..;.. ..;63;65;..;..;..;..;..;39 ..;..;..;12;10;07;..;05;03 68;..;..;..;09;..;..;..;02

Some puzzles with pairs:

Code: Select all: ..;44;..;50;..;..;53;59;.. ..;46;45;..;51;52;..;..;.. ..;39;..;..;..;..;..;63;.. ..;..;..;..;02;..;..;..;.. ..;..;36;04;..;01;..;65;.. ..;81;19;..;23;..;..;..;28 09;..;18;..;..;..;..;68;.. ..;11;..;..;..;..;25;69;.. ..;..;..;78;..;76;..;..;.. 76;..;..;..;..;..;05;..;.. ..;..;78;..;..;04;..;..;.. ..;49;51;16;..;..;..;..;01 ..;..;52;44;..;19;..;..;10 ..;..;..;42;..;..;..;12;24 54;..;67;..;..;..;..;..;.. ..;..;57;..;36;..;38;27;.. ..;..;..;..;..;35;..;29;.. ..;..;..;59;60;..;..;..;..

This puzzle should require both:

Code: Select all: ..;..;..;..;..;..;..;53;.. 09;08;..;..;..;..;..;..;.. ..;06;13;19;..;..;..;50;.. ..;..;..;58;..;27;61;49;.. 81;..;02;..;..;..;46;..;.. ..;03;..;29;22;..;47;..;.. ..;..;..;..;..;23;..;44;.. ..;..;33;35;..;38;..;..;.. ..;..;75;..;..;..;..;..;42

by **udosuk** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:25 pm

Thanks for the puzzles, evert.

Have you (or your solver) tried djape's Jan 20 puzzle? Apparently it requires a new technique, which I call "path shaping". It's hard to describe the technique formally, so here is how I solved it, see if you can get the essence of that technique:

After "easy" moves:

Code: Select all: 38 37 36 12 11 .. .. 64 39 40 35 43 13 .. .. 08 21 41 42 34 44 .. .. 07 20 22 33 .. .. .. 06 01 23 19 .. .. .. 05 .. .. 24 25 .. .. .. .. .. .. 27 26 30 .. .. .. 56 .. 28 29 .. .. .. 52 .. 55

Define the following paths:
_A: 14..18 (length 5)
_B: 57..63 (length 7)
_C: 45..51 (length 7)
_D: 31..32 (length 2)

Code: Select all: 38 37 36 12 11 .. .. 64 39 40 35 43 13 .. .. 08 21 41 42 34 44 _* _* 07 20 22 33 _# _# _# 06 01 23 19 _@ _@ _@ 05 _@ .. 24 25 .. .. .. .. .. .. 27 26 30 .. .. .. 56 .. 28 29 .. .. .. 52 .. 55

_*: r3c67={_A,_B} (can be considered as a "double gateway")
_#: r4c456={_A,_B,_C}
_@: r5c3457={_A,_B,_C,_D)
=> r5c8=02
Also r4c4 (_#) can't touch r3c67 (_*)
=> r4c4 can't be from _A or _B, must be from _C=45
=> _#: r4c56={_A,_B}

Code: Select all: 38 37 36 12 11 .. .. 64 39 40 35 43 13 .. .. 08 21 41 42 34 44 _* _* 07 20 22 33 45 _# _# 06 01 23 19 _@ _@ _@ 05 _@ 02 24 25 .. .. .. .. .. .. 27 26 30 .. .. .. 56 .. 28 29 .. .. .. 52 .. 55

Now r5c7 (_@) must be from _A or _B
But it can't be from _A (too far away from 13 & 19)
=> r5c7 (_@) must be from _B
=> r4c6 (_#) must be from _B
=> r4c5 (_#) must be from _A
=> r3c6 (_*) must be from _A
=> r3c7 (_*) must be from _B
=> _@: r45c345={_A,_C,_D}

Code: Select all: 38 37 36 12 11 .. .. 64 39 40 35 43 13 .. .. 08 21 41 42 34 44 _A _B 07 20 22 33 45 _A _B 06 01 23 19 _@ _@ _@ 05 _B 02 24 25 _$ _$ .. .. .. .. 27 26 30 .. .. .. 56 .. 28 29 .. .. .. 52 .. 55

Now one of r6c34 (_$) must be from _D=31
=> r6c34 (_$) can't be both from _A
=> one of r5c34 (_@) must be from _A
(otherwise the path for _A will have at least 6 cells, too long)
=> r5c4 (_@) must be from _A
=> r5c3 (_@) must be from _D=32
=> r5c5 (_@) must be from _C=46
=> r6c3 (_$) must be from _A=18
=> r6c4 (_$) must be from _D=31

Code: Select all: 38 37 36 12 11 .. .. 64 39 40 35 43 13 .. .. 08 21 41 42 34 44 _A _B 07 20 22 33 45 _A _B 06 01 23 19 32 _A 46 05 _B 02 24 25 18 31 .. .. .. .. 27 26 30 .. .. .. 56 .. 28 29 .. .. .. 52 .. 55

Now r3c6+r4c5+r5c4 from _A must be [15..17]
=> r2c6=14
=> r2c7 must be from _B
=> r1c67=[10,09]
=> r23c7+r4c6+r5c7 from _B must be [63..60]

Code: Select all: 38 37 36 12 11 10 09 64 39 40 35 43 13 14 63 08 21 41 42 34 44 15 62 07 20 22 33 45 16 61 06 01 23 19 32 17 46 05 60 02 24 25 18 31 .. .. .. .. 27 26 30 .. .. .. 56 .. 28 29 .. .. .. 52 .. 55

Now [04,03] must be @ either r6c67 or r6c78
Gateway: r6c7 is reserved for [04,03]
Also 54 must be @ either r7c8 or r8c7
=> [59..57] can't be @ r67c8+r8c7
=> 59 can't be @ r6c8, must be @ r6c6
=> [04,03] must be @ r6c78
=> 47 must be @ r6c5

Code: Select all: 38 37 36 12 11 10 09 64 39 40 35 43 13 14 63 08 21 41 42 34 44 15 62 07 20 22 33 45 16 61 06 01 23 19 32 17 46 05 60 02 24 25 18 31 47 59 04 03 27 26 30 .. .. .. 56 .. 28 29 .. .. .. 52 .. 55

Gateway: r8c7 is reserved for [53,54]
=> 57 can't be @ r7c8 or r8c7, must be @ r7c6
=> 58 must be @ r7c5
=> [53,54] must be @ r8c7+r7c8
=> 48 must be @ r7c4
=> r8c345=[49,50,51]

Code: Select all: 38 37 36 12 11 10 09 64 39 40 35 43 13 14 63 08 21 41 42 34 44 15 62 07 20 22 33 45 16 61 06 01 23 19 32 17 46 05 60 02 24 25 18 31 47 59 04 03 27 26 30 48 58 57 56 54 28 29 49 50 51 52 53 55

Hope your solver had a easier time than me.

by **evert** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:35 am

udosuk wrote:After "easy" moves:
Code: Select all
38 37 36 12 11 .. .. 64 39 40 35 43 13 .. .. 08 21 41 42 34 44 .. .. 07 20 22 33 .. .. .. 06 01 23 19 .. .. .. 05 .. .. 24 25 .. .. .. .. .. .. 27 26 30 .. .. .. 56 .. 28 29 .. .. .. 52 .. 55

Back to this point:
naked single in (8,3): 49.

by **evert** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:23 am

Apart from this I appreciate your ideas!

I'd like to call these paths (A/B/C/D) fragments.
Let's say:
Bottleneck means:
a given fragment needs a given empty cell as pass-through.
What you're pointing out is:
n given fragments need n given cells as pass-through.
So multiple-bottleneck, allowing to exclude not-involved numbers from the involved cells.

You mentioned one more thing:
If a cell is occupied by a fragment, than adjacent cells are occupied by the same fragment if they are necessary pass-throughs.

udosuk wrote:Hope your solver had a easier time than me.

It did; naked singles are quite dominant and not always very elegant in Hidato.

by **udosuk** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:10 am

Here is an alternative solving path to djape's Jan 20 puzzle, using naked singles predominantly:

After "easy" moves:

Code: Select all: 38 37 36 12 11 .. .. 64 39 40 35 43 13 .. .. 08 21 41 42 34 44 .. .. 07 20 22 33 .. .. .. 06 01 23 19 .. .. .. 05 .. .. 24 25 .. .. .. .. .. .. 27 26 30 .. .. .. 56 .. 28 29 .. .. .. 52 .. 55

Naked Single: r8c3=49
=> r7c4=48 (r8c4 can't be 48, too far from 44)
=> r8c4=50
Naked Single: r8c5=51
Naked Single: r7c5=58
Naked Single: r7c8=54
=> r8c7=53
Naked Single: r7c6=57
Naked Single: r6c8=03
Naked Single: r5c8=02
Naked Single: r6c7=04
Naked Single: r5c8=60
=> r46c6=[61,59]
Naked Single: r6c5=47
Naked Single: r1c7=09
Naked Single: r1c6=10
=> r2c7=63
Naked Single: r3c7=62
Naked Single: r2c6=14
=> r3c6+r4c5=[15,16]
=> r4c4=45
Naked Single: r5c5=46
=> r5c4=17
=> r5c3=32
=> r6c34=[18,31]

(Hint: I found it easier applying this approach by listing all the unused numbers separately and then crossing out each of them as they're being inserted into the grid. Well things to do when you don't have a program to help.

)

evert wrote:This puzzle should require both:
Code: Select all
..|..|..|..|..|..|..|53|.. 09|08|..|..|..|..|..|..|.. ..|06|13|19|..|..|..|50|.. ..|..|..|58|..|27|61|49|.. 81|..|02|..|..|..|46|..|.. ..|03|..|29|22|..|47|..|.. ..|..|..|..|..|23|..|44|.. ..|..|33|35|..|38|..|..|.. ..|..|75|..|..|..|..|..|42

Solution:

Code: Select all: 10|11|15|16|17|55|54|53|52 09|08|12|14|18|56|63|64|51 07|06|13|19|57|60|62|50|65 05|01|20|58|59|27|61|49|66 81|04|02|21|28|26|46|48|67 80|03|30|29|22|25|47|45|68 79|31|34|36|24|23|39|44|69 78|32|33|35|37|38|40|70|43 77|76|75|74|73|72|71|41|42

Plenty of bottlenecks (gateways), but I didn't remember using any pair for cracking it. The corridor on c9 is nice though.

by **evert** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:00 pm

I don't know how to UN-teach

my solver naked singles. For it's often the final, trivial step in an elegant move.

After plainly commenting that part of the code, this puzzle was created:

Code: Select all: 00;03;00;00;00;46;00;00;00 00;05;51;49;54;56;00;40;00 06;00;00;00;00;57;42;00;00 00;00;00;00;00;00;00;13;36 00;62;61;60;59;00;00;00;00 67;00;00;00;00;00;33;16;15 00;68;00;27;00;00;00;00;00 75;73;00;00;00;00;81;00;00 00;00;72;00;23;00;00;00;00

I think I like the others better ...

by **udosuk** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:13 am

Highlight below to see the solution of the puzzle above, I wrote:04|03|50|48|47|46|45|44|39
02|05|51|49|54|56|43|40|38
06|01|52|53|55|57|42|41|37
63|07|08|09|10|58|12|13|36
64|62|61|60|59|11|34|35|14
67|65|69|26|28|29|33|16|15
66|68|70|27|25|80|30|32|17
75|73|77|71|79|24|81|31|18
74|76|72|78|23|22|21|20|19

Still, I don't think pairs are necessary for this one. However, djape's 2 latest daily puzzles (Thurs & Fri) I think needs them. (Probably unnecessary if one applies naked singles, but I didn't. :?:

)

I hope you will soon construct a puzzle which needs all the tricks mentioned: naked singles, pairs (subsets), gateway (bottleneck), path shaping (multiple bottleneck :?:

) etc...

by **evert** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:20 am

Multiple bottleneck will not be easy.
In my first version what I did was:
Compute the shortest-path distance from each cell (i1,j1) to each other cell (i2,j2).

For bottleneck, what I’ve done is:
Compute the shortest-path distance from each cell (i1,j1) to each other cell (i2,j2) in the scenario that a third cell (i3,j3) is occupied - … for each (i3,j3)!!!

So the amount of work increased with factor 81 and so did the time needed to solve or create puzzles.

What will happen if I compute all these shortest-path distances for multiple bottleneck ((i3,j3), (i4,j4),…etc)?

Unless there is something smarter…

by **evert** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:07 am

I may know a new technique, which is quite obvious for a human player, but I didn’t program it yet. I’d like to call it fuzzy distance.

Do you agree with the logic?

Type I based on straight distance:

For any empty cell (i,j) and for any unplaced number n:
Define d as the smallest straight distance from (i,j) to any of the cells where n can be placed.
Then for any n2:
(n2 > n - d and n2 < n + d) -> then n2 can be excluded from (i,j)

Type I based on shortest-path-distance:

For any empty cell (i,j) and for any unplaced number n:
Define d as the smallest shortest-path-distance from (i,j) to any of the cells where n can be placed.
Then for any n2:
(n2 > n - d and n2 < n + d and n and n2 are in the same fragment) -> then n2 can be excluded from (i,j)

Type II based on straight distance:

For any pair of empte cells (i,j) and (i2,j2)
Define n_min and n_max as the lowest resp. the highest number that can be placed in (i,j).
Define d as the straight distance between (i,j) and (i2,j2)
Then for any n:
if n < n_min + d and n > n_max - d then n can be excluded from (i2,j2)

Type II based on shortest-path-distance:

For any pair of empte cells (i,j) and (i2,j2)
Define n_min and n_max as the lowest resp. the highest number that can be placed in (i,j).
Define d as the shortest-path-distance between (i,j) and (i2,j2)
If n_min and n_max are in the same fragment, then for any n in that same fragment:
if n < n_min + d and n > n_max - d then n can be excluded from (i2,j2)

by **evert** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:23 am

After programming type I & II Straight distance:

Code: Select all: ..;..;13;..;..;..;..;..;01 15;..;..;08;81;..;78;03;.. 20;..;48;..;..;..;04;..;75 ..;21;..;..;..;45;44;73;74 23;..;..;..;46;..;..;..;.. ..;..;..;..;68;..;39;37;.. ..;..;..;..;..;30;..;..;.. ..;53;58;27;..;..;31;33;.. ..;..;..;..;..;62;..;..;..

by **udosuk** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:17 pm

Highlight below to see the solution to evert's latest puzzle that I wrote:16|14|13|12|07|80|79|02|01
15|17|11|08|81|06|78|03|76
20|18|48|10|09|05|04|77|75
19|21|49|47|70|45|44|73|74
23|22|50|69|46|71|72|43|42
24|25|51|67|68|29|39|37|41
54|52|26|66|28|30|38|40|36
55|53|58|27|65|64|31|33|35
56|57|59|60|61|62|63|32|34

I had a great time solving this puzzle, thought about writing a walkthrough but not enough energy.

Could you give 2 examples how you applied each of the "types I & II straight distance" in this puzzle? I think some physical demonstration can be very helpful to explain your "fuzzy logic" instead of the cryptic formulas you wrote above. :idea:

by **evert** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:43 am

udosuk wrote:Could you give 2 examples how you applied each of the "types I & II straight distance" in this puzzle? I think some physical demonstration can be very helpful to explain your "fuzzy logic" instead of the cryptic formulas you wrote above.

An easy example of type I would be:
If number 5 can only go in R1C1, R1C2 or R1C3, then 6 could never go in R9C9.

I have a real-life example of type II:

Code: Select all: ..;..;..;..;05;..;02;..;..; 09;08;07;..;..;74;73;69;..; ..;15;16;..;..;..;..;..;..; ..;13;..;..;..;..;..;66;64; ..;12;43;..;..;..;..;..;..; ..;..;27;40;..;..;61;62;..; ..;..;..;38;..;..;..;56;..; 33;..;..;..;23;..;..;52;..; ..;..;..;..;..;..;50;..;53;

After non-fuzzy moves:

Code: Select all: 81;80;79;06;05;03;02;01;70 09;08;07;78;04;74;73;69;71 10;15;16;..;..;..;..;72;.. 11;13;14;..;..;..;..;66;64 ..;12;43;..;..;..;..;..;.. ..;..;27;40;..;..;61;62;.. ..;..;..;38;..;..;..;56;.. 33;..;..;..;23;..;..;52;.. ..;..;..;..;..;..;50;..;53

Now in R9C1 only 30, 31, 32, 34, 35 go.
In R5C1 only 29, 30 go.

Whether 29 or 30 is filled in R5C1, in both cases 30, 31 and 32
cannot go anymore in R9C1 since the distance to R5C1 is too large.

The formula says:

Code: Select all: d = 4 n_min = 29 n_max = 30 n < 29 + 4 and n > 30 - 4 --> n not allowed in R1C9

And only 34 and 35 remain as options for R9C1.

Same puzzle further:

Code: Select all: 81;80;79;06;05;03;02;01;70 09;08;07;78;04;74;73;69;71 10;15;16;17;77;75;68;72;65 11;13;14;42;18;76;67;66;64 29;12;43;44;41;19;..;..;.. 30;28;27;40;45;..;61;62;.. 31;26;39;38;..;..;..;56;.. 33;32;25;37;23;47;..;52;.. 34;35;36;24;48;49;50;..;53

I know the program needs a combination of both types from here.

Due to lack of time I didn't reconstruct this in detail.

But I think I noticed with pencil and paper that 57 and 59 were excluded somewhere because the remaining options
for 58 were all too far away - which is type I.

I think these types of fuzzy distance are quite powerful.
Some earlier bottleneck-puzzles are also tackeled with this new technique instead.
:idea:

by **evert** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:16 am

Still I did find one that requires BOTH fuzzy distance and bottleneck:

Code: Select all: 00;00;59;00;00;46;00;00;00 00;00;00;00;00;00;53;00;00 00;00;41;40;00;44;00;52;00 00;00;00;33;00;00;11;14;00 30;00;00;00;08;10;00;13;00 00;00;28;00;01;00;00;00;00 00;00;00;00;05;00;00;00;00 00;71;00;00;00;00;19;20;00 00;69;74;00;00;25;00;00;21

by **udosuk** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:38 pm

Thanks for the demonstration. Clear as crystal. Great work!

evert wrote:
Code: Select all
81;80;79;06;05;03;02;01;70 09;08;07;78;04;74;73;69;71 10;15;16;..;..;..;..;72;.. 11;13;14;..;..;..;..;66;64 ..;12;43;..;..;..;..;..;.. ..;..;27;40;..;..;61;62;.. ..;..;..;38;..;..;..;56;.. 33;..;..;..;23;..;..;52;.. ..;..;..;..;..;..;50;..;53

Now in R9C1 only 30, 31, 32, 34, 35 go.
In R5C1 only 29, 30 go.

Whether 29 or 30 is filled in R5C1, in both cases 30, 31 and 32
cannot go anymore in R9C1 since the distance to R5C1 is too large.

The formula says:
Code: Select all
d = 4 n_min = 29 n_max = 30 n < 29 + 4 and n > 30 - 4 --> n not allowed in R1C9

And only 34 and 35 remain as options for R9C1.

I believe the last line of the formula should say R9C1. Also, if I were to explain this move, I'll say something like:

Code: Select all: r5c1 must be 29 or 30. As a result, the numbers [27..32] are locked in cells within 3 cells away from r5c1 (27 being 30-3 and 32 being 29+3). Hence r9c1, being 4 cells away from r5c1, can't have [27..32].

Will work at your latest puzzles later!