The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[emm]

We're taking it that the object is not uniformly consistent in its composition, right? so it's probably not a folder. A folder is also moved when it's used - you have to open it to put the papers in.

if it's something you hold in your hand to use, then it's probably not a paperweight

if it's something that you hold and yet it remains static when used then it could be something you look at

it could be a photograph but I would call that a household item

and it's not printed material so how about something you look through?

[MCC]

...What I was after was that the object had the same consistancy all over & still able to serve its function/purpose.......I wasn't after every smaller bit capable of serving the same function.....

so a solid metal paperweight falls under that.... a folder holding stamps CAN have the same consistancy all over & still serve its function.......

Complex objects like the fountain pen or the thermometer or printed material obviously can't.

I believe it's the complexity of the original post that's the problem, since I can only respond with a Yes, No, or Maybe, then any answer that requires a more complex response, will, in general, recieve a more negative response from me.

But in light of the above post I will change the previous answer from a No to a Yes.

Are you a physical object?
Would you fit in a box of size 1m x 1m x 1m?
Were you created/crafted by an Earth-dwelling living entity?
To serve your function/purpose in general, do you & all your parts have to remain static ?
Do some people make use of you in the ordinary course of their work?
Do you hold it when you use it?
Is paper involved in either your composition or the performance of your function?
If you were constructed in a manner by which every smaller part/area/volume of you is of the same consistancy as the rest, could you still serve your purpose/function ?
Yes.

Are you a household item? (more No than yes. )
Would I expect to find you on my desk in my office?
Something that interacts with printed matter, maybe?
Maybe.

Are you powered by electricity?
Are you associated with the arts?
Are you generally found in a garden?
Was it used as a murder weapon/tool in some known movies ?
Are you a map or other printed matter?
Is one of your materials an adhesive substance?
No.

3 questions left.

emm will need a rethink.



MCC

[emm]

And are we sure that we hold this thing to use it and yet neither it nor its parts move?

[tarek]

with rather simple answers as Yes or NO, I think it is feasible to have the questions Complex in an attempt to guide the next question (a lot of thought went into the question by the way)......

Myth & underquerk might have been guided by your answer into asking their questions........

I think we deserve some bonus attempts because of that (emm's question not included )

tarek

[emm]

Hey, mine is not a new question - mine is Q13 and Q9 revisited.

The trouble with complex questions, is that if they have more than one part and you get a Yes, then you don't know which part the affirmative relates to, as in the case of Is paper involved in either your composition or the performance of your function? which was answered Yes and left us unsure if the involvement of paper was to the thing itself or to the thing that it was doing whatever it was doing to, although on the other hand if you ask a complex question that covers several options and get a No then you've killed more than one bird with your stone and that's a bonus. Don't you think?

[Myth Jellies]

Well my real reason for the complex paper question was to avoid a judgement call for MCC. Is paper involved in a book's primary function? That could be a judgement call based on how you interpret the question. Some might say a book's primary function is to convey information. It doesn't perform some "operation" on a paper product, so the answer is "no". Others might interpret a book as something with the function of holding paper pages together in order, or conveying information specifically via paper; and so answer "yes".

Someone could still ask whether paper is part of the item's construction if they thought it would help.

[MCC]

The operators "OR" and "AND" come into play in a complex question.

[A OR B] or [A AND B]

Both A and B can be either yes or no.

With [A OR B] if one is a yes then the output is yes.

With [A AND B] if one is a no then the output is no.

I took emm's question to be rhetorical.


MCC

[emm]

I've made a list. I hope I don’t appear obsessive, because I’m not. I’m just very, very organised.

Things on My Desk To Do with Paper That Do Not Fit the Criteria

a) things that move when used
pen / pencil
stapler
staple remover
rubber stamp
eraser
Tipex
hole punch
scissors
letter opener
paper clip
rubber band
Lever arch files

b) things that are not hand held
desk pad
note holder
mail holder
paperweight
box of tissues
printers
computer

c) things that have adhesive
stamps
envelopes
glue stick
post it notes
labels
Sellotape
boxes

d) things that use printed matter
books
maps
stationery

Things to Rethink

photograph
folder
ruler
magnifying glass

We have only 3 questions left. I will use one that will hopefully be a 50/50 elimination.

Is your primary material a softish paper or cardboard?

PS: I have edited this post about 5 times.

[MCC]

We have only 3 questions left. I will use one that will hopefully be a 50/50 elimination.

Is your primary material a softish paper or cardboard?

No.

Are you a physical object?
Would you fit in a box of size 1m x 1m x 1m?
Were you created/crafted by an Earth-dwelling living entity?
To serve your function/purpose in general, do you & all your parts have to remain static ?
Do some people make use of you in the ordinary course of their work?
Do you hold it when you use it?
Is paper involved in either your composition or the performance of your function?
If you were constructed in a manner by which every smaller part/area/volume of you is of the same consistancy as the rest, could you still serve your purpose/function ?
Yes.

Are you a household item? (more No than yes. )
Would I expect to find you on my desk in my office?
Something that interacts with printed matter, maybe?
Maybe.

Are you powered by electricity?
Are you associated with the arts?
Are you generally found in a garden?
Was it used as a murder weapon/tool in some known movies ?
Are you a map or other printed matter?
Is one of your materials an adhesive substance?
Is your primary material a softish paper or cardboard?
No.

2 questions left.


tarek asked for some bonus attempts, well I'm going to allow emm's 33 listed items as bonus attempts.

Things on My Desk To Do with Paper That Do Not Fit the Criteria

a) things that move when used
pen / pencil
stapler
staple remover
rubber stamp
eraser
Tipex
hole punch
scissors
letter opener
paper clip
rubber band
Lever arch files

b) things that are not hand held
desk pad
note holder
mail holder
paperweight
box of tissues
printers
computer

c) things that have adhesive
stamps
envelopes
glue stick
post it notes
labels
Sellotape
boxes

d) things that use printed matter
books
maps
stationery

Things to Rethink

photograph
folder
ruler
magnifying glass

None of the above.


MCC

[emm]

Oh, so it’s not all about me and my desk after all. I was a bit impetuous. I should have heeded MCC’s advice from a few days ago about not taking this personally. He was right, I was led astray.

I also misinterpreted his comment that emm will need a rethink to mean emm is on the right track when in fact he really meant emm will need a rethink. I’ve had problems in the past with the enigmatic male mind.

So now I have 3 burning questions - all rhetorical - even more exciting than what is MCC’s object?

a) Who will ask the next question?
b) Who will ask the last question?
c) Will one of them be me? (this one is giving me butterflies)

[emm]

OKaay let’s play the waiting game! You should know that I’m a very patient woman. If you’d watched me untangle the Christmas lights you’d know that I am patience personified.

[Heuresement]

I've been following this with great interest but haven't asked anything as yet because I haven't wanted to reduce unnecessarily the number of remaining questions.

Before the last question was answered I had thought that it might be a diary but as that is made of paper and cardboard, that has been eliminated. Sealing wax (which I don't have on my desk but some do) might fit. It is used with paper, etc., but I couldn't decide whether it was adhesive. What does anybody else think?

In the meantime I will continue thinking.

[tarek]

tarek asked for some bonus attempts, well I'm going to allow emm's 33 listed items as bonus attempts.

Oh kind MCC, Thank you

with 2 attempts left.... it is a guessing game ..... so.......

The ruler issue is wide open... architects use a number of things to draw design objects ....... all can be made of the same material.... from triangles to .....

Are you a Triangle or an architectural design tool ?

tarek

[MCC]

...Sealing wax (which I don't have on my desk but some do) might fit. It is used with paper, etc., but I couldn't decide whether it was adhesive. What does anybody else think?

I think I would classify sealing wax as an adhesive as it has to be molten to do it's job, although it's held static over the position where it's applied.

As an adhesive it would fail as a guess, it would also fail in the consideration of the following:

Do some people make use of you in the ordinary course of their work?

There might be some archaic job still in exsistance that uses sealing wax in the course of their job but I would classify it as a no.


MCC

[emm]

MCC - you have overlooked Tarek's question - unintentionally, I guess.