The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **Mike Barker** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:45 am

We don't have many true examples yet. There are many over at the Benchmark Sudoku List, the Effortless Extreme Thread, and the Local Zoo. Here are a few from the zoo. Do we want to develop a complete set of true examples? If so I can continue to pull them out of the existing data bases.

Ron, interesting observation about the relationships between the base set, the cover set, and the difference between them. Also, its going to take me a while to get use to Frankenfish with a box in the base set, but you are correct about the swordfish. Of course the fact that the same eliminations can be done so many different ways begs the question, Is there a minimal set of fish which should be defined?

Code: Select all: X-wing r26/c29: ...7..8..7..5..6......8...2.2..4.....3......7..19..5..2...5...14....3........1983 +-------------------+------------+----------------+ | 3 56-4 2 | 7 9 46 | 8 1 5-4 | | 7 49* 8 | 5 1 2 | 6 3 49* | | 1 569-4 456 | 3 8 46 | 47 4579 2 | +-------------------+------------+----------------+ | 5689 2 567 | 1 4 578 | 3 69 689 | | 589 3 45 | 2 6 58 | 1 49 7 | | 68 467* 1 | 9 3 78 | 5 2 468* | +-------------------+------------+----------------+ | 2 8 3 | 6 5 9 | 47 47 1 | | 4 1 9 | 8 7 3 | 2 56 56 | | 56 567 567 | 4 2 1 | 9 8 3 | +-------------------+------------+----------------+ . * . | . . . | . . * / X / | / / / | / / X . * . | . . . | . . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . / X / | / / / | / / X ------+-------+------ . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . X-wing c58/r27: 5..21..3.96...8....1.3.....6..15.......8.92.......3.1..86...9..1...3.57..2....... +-----------+------------------+-----------------+ | 5 4 8 | 2 1 67 | 67 3 9 | | 9 6 3 | 57-4 47* 8 | 1 24* 257-4 | | 2 1 7 | 3 9 456 | 46 8 456 | +-----------+------------------+-----------------+ | 6 37 2 | 1 5 47 | 8 9 347 | | 4 37 1 | 8 6 9 | 2 5 37 | | 8 5 9 | 47 2 3 | 467 1 467 | +-----------+------------------+-----------------+ | 3 8 6 | 57-4 47* 157-4 | 9 24* 12-4 | | 1 9 4 | 6 3 2 | 5 7 8 | | 7 2 5 | 9 8 14 | 3 6 14 | +-----------+------------------+-----------------+ . . . | . / . | . / . . . . | * X . | . X * . . . | . / . | . / . ------+-------+------ . . . | . / . | . / . . . . | . / . | . / . . . . | . / . | . /. . ------+-------+------ . . . | * X * | . X * . . . | . / . | . / . . . . | . / . | . / .

by **Mike Barker** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:08 am

Here's an example of a Kraken Mutant X-wing. The links connect r5c13 and the fin, r2c5, to the candidate elimination cell, r3c3 resulting in the elimination.

Code: Select all: Kraken Mutant X-Wing: r5c5/b45,fin=r2c5 (r5c134|r246c5=5) (r5c1-5-r1379c1-8-, r5c3-5-r24c3-8-, r2c5=8=r2c3-8-) => r3c3<>8 +---------------------+------------------+-------------------+ | 157@ 3457 13457 | 457 2 179 | 6 8 1459 | | 9 6 458$% | 3 58#% 14 | 7 145 2 | | 1578@ 2 1457-8 | 4578 6 1479 | 3 1459 1459 | +---------------------+------------------+-------------------+ | 28 9 458$ | 124 345* 6 | 145 135 7 | | 257* 1 457* | 245* 379 34 | 8 3469 469 | | 3 457 6 | 147 579* 8 | 145 2 1459 | +---------------------+------------------+-------------------+ | 167@ 37 9 | 467 478 5 | 2 146 1348 | | 4 357 2 | 678 1 37 | 9 56 358 | | 156@ 8 135 | 9 34 2 | 145 7 13456 | +---------------------+------------------+-------------------+ . . . | . / . | . . . . . . | . # . | . . . . . * | . / . | . . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . X . | . . . X / X | X / / | / / / . . . | . X . | . . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . / . | . . . . . . | . / . | . . . . . . | . / . | . . .

Here's a Mutant Jellyfish which truely deserves the name of mutant

Code: Select all: Mutant Jellyfish: r58c36/b1478,fins=r2c6,r5c1 +------------------------+-----------------------+-------------------+ | 5 12789 128* | 124689 12489 3 | 1467 167 147 | | 13467-8 13678 138* | 5 148 48# | 2 9 1347 | | 12349 1239 123 | 12469 7 24 | 1456 8 1345 | +------------------------+-----------------------+-------------------+ | 1238 1238 5 | 7 2489 2468* | 146 16 149 | | 78# 4 6 | 89* 589* 1 | 3 2 579 | | 127 127 9 | 3 245 2456 | 8 1567 1457 | +------------------------+-----------------------+-------------------+ | 1268 1268 7 | 1248 123458 2458* | 9 135 28 | | 128* 1258* 4 | 128* 12358* 9 | 157 1357 6 | | 12389 123589 1238* | 128 6 7 | 15 4 28 | +------------------------+-----------------------+-------------------+ . . X | . . / | . . . * . X | . . # | . . . . . / | . . / | . . . ------+-------+------ . . / | . . X | . . . # / / | X X / | / / / . . / | . . / | . . . ------+-------+------ . . / | . . X | . . . X X / | X X / | / / / . . X | . . / | . . .

by **ronk** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:28 am

Mike Barker wrote:We don't have many true examples yet. There are many over at the Benchmark Sudoku List, the Effortless Extreme Thread, and the Local Zoo. Here are a few from the zoo. Do we want to develop a complete set of true examples? If so I can continue to pull them out of the existing data bases.

A "complete set" would be my vote, but I think you should let others do the simpler patterns. You have one of the few solvers with frankenfish capabilities and you're obviously one of the better programmers around here ... so I'd like to see you search for the complex patterns.

For example, for starters would you pull together a small collection of unfinned franken jellyfish -- with only rows or only cols in the base set as you do now? If so, try to find a variety of placements ... say P=0,1,2,3. And then do the same for the unfinned franken squirmbag?

It would be nice if your solver would emulate the technique set of Simple Sudoku (SS) here ... so learners could cut & paste the puzzle into SS and just sit on the F11 key to get to the pencilmarks of the frankenfish. Obviously not necessary though.

Of course the fact that the same eliminations can be done so many different ways begs the question, Is there a minimal set of fish which should be defined?

I suspect we wouldn't be able to rule out any those four. Take another look at them in my post. The no-candidate (empty cell) requirements are different for each one. So add a candidate here or there ... and another here or there ... and suddenly you're left with only one of the four fish capable of making the eliminations.

by **Ruud** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:33 am

There are several similarities between fish and other techniques. We've seen line-box reductions, empty rectangles, grouped X-cycles and AIC.

Since this is the ultimate fish guide, here are some other similarities:

2 Sashimi X-Wings = 1 Skyscraper.

Code: Select all: . / . | . . . | . / . . X . | . . . | * (X) * . / . | . . . | . # . ----------+----------+--------- . / . | . . . | . / . . / . | . . . | . / . . / . | . . . | . / . ----------+----------+--------- . / . | . . . | . / . . X . | . . . | . X . . / . | . . . | . / . Sashimi X-Wing c28\r28 . / . | . . . | . / . . # . | . . . | . / . * (X) * | . . . | . X . ----------+----------+--------- . / . | . . . | . / . . / . | . . . | . / . . / . | . . . | . / . ----------+----------+--------- . / . | . . . | . / . . X . | . . . | . X . . / . | . . . | . / . Sashimi X-Wing c28\r38 . / . | . . . | . / . . X . | . . . | * / * * / * | . . . | . X . ----------+----------+--------- . / . | . . . | . / . . / . | . . . | . / . . / . | . . . | . / . ----------+----------+--------- . / . | . . . | . / . . X . | . . . | . X . . / . | . . . | . / . Skyscraper

Mutant fish rcb, when finned in the box, is a 2-string kite.

Code: Select all: * X * | . . . | . * . X / X | / / / | / X / * X * | . . . | . * . ----------+----------+--------- . / . | . . . | . * . . / . | . . . | . * . . / . | . . . | . * . ----------+----------+--------- . / . | . . . | / X / * X * | * * * | X *X X . / . | . . . | / X / Mutant swordfish rcb\rcb . X . | . . . | . . . X / X | / / / | / X / . X . | . . . | . . . ----------+----------+--------- . / . | . . . | . . . . / . | . . . | . . . . / . | . . . | . . . ----------+----------+--------- . / . | . . . | # X # . X . | . . . | X *X X . / . | . . . | # X # Finned Mutant swordfish rcb\rcb . X . | . . . | . . . X / X | / / / | / X / . X . | . . . | . . . ----------+----------+--------- . / . | . . . | . . . . / . | . . . | . . . . / . | . . . | . . . ----------+----------+--------- . / . | . . . | . . . . X . | . . . | . * . . / . | . . . | . . . 2-string kite

Well ... it could be a 2-string kite if each line had only one candidate in box 1. Seems that we can relax the definition of 2-string kite a little.

Ruud

by **Mike Barker** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:43 am

Here's a few finless Franken Jellyfish (one column version and one row version). Note I'm using "." where a candidate could exist, but does not. Let me know if there is a preferred way.

Code: Select all: Column Finless Franken Jellyfish: c1478/r568b3 => r5c5<>9,r6c23<>9,r8c23<>9 ...3.9.7.8..4.....1........2..5..6...3.....4.....1....5.....8......2.1.....7....9 +--------------------------+---------------------+---------------------+ | 46 2456 2456 | 3 8 9 | 245 7 1 | | 8 2579 23579 | 4 567 1 | 2359* 23569* 2356 | | 1 4579 34579 | 26 567 2567 | 3459* 35689* 34568 | +--------------------------+---------------------+---------------------+ | 2 4789 4789 | 5 3479 3478 | 6 1 38 | | 679* 3 1 | 2689* 67-9 2678 | 2579* 4 258 | | 4679* 45678-9 45678-9 | 2689* 1 234678 | 2379* 2389* 238 | +--------------------------+---------------------+---------------------+ | 5 24679 24679 | 1 3469 346 | 8 236 23467 | | 34679* 4678-9 4678-9 | 689* 2 34568 | 1 356 34567 | | 346 1 2468 | 7 3456 34568 | 2345 2356 9 | +--------------------------+---------------------+---------------------+ / . . | / . . | . . . / . . | / . . | X X . / . . | / . . | X X . ------+-------+------ / . . | / . . | / / . X . . | X * . | X . . X * * | X . . | X X . ------+-------+------ / . . | / . . | / / . X * * | X . . | . . . / . . | / . . | / / . Row Finless Franken Jellyfish: r1368/c125b3 => r7c5<>5 ..7.3.......5..2...4...89.183..2........4.........9.12.81.....4..97...2....4.3..9 +-----------------+-------------------+---------------------+ | 1259* 1259* 7 | 1269 3 1246 | 568* 4568* 568* | | 169 169 8 | 5 179 14 | 2 347 37 | | 25* 4 3 | 26 67 8 | 9 567* 1 | +-----------------+-------------------+---------------------+ | 8 3 56 | 16 2 1567 | 4 9 567 | | 19 19 2 | 38 4 567 | 567 35678 35678 | | 567* 567* 4 | 38 56* 9 | 38 1 2 | +-----------------+-------------------+---------------------+ | 3 8 1 | 269 9-5 256 | 567 567 4 | | 4 56* 9 | 7 1568* 16 | 138 2 38 | | 27 27 56 | 4 18 3 | 1568 568 9 | +-----------------+-------------------+---------------------+ X X / | / . / | X X X . . . | . . . | . . . X . / | / . / | . X . ------+-------+------ . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . X X / | / X / | / / / ------+-------+------ . . . | . * . | . . . . X / | / X / | / / / . . . | . . . | . . .

Here's a few finless franken swordfish as well:

Code: Select all: Column Finless Franken Swordfish: c134/r14b7 => r8c2<>7,r14c5<>7 .....1...9.468...1..6.3...7......6..6....9..44.25...83...8...4.3..19...........78 +----------------------+---------------------+-----------------+ | 2578* 235 357* | 2479* 245-7 1 | 48 23569 256 | | 9 2357 4 | 6 8 257 | 25 235 1 | | 1258 125 6 | 249 3 245 | 48 259 7 | +----------------------+---------------------+-----------------+ | 157* 1359 13579* | 2347* 124-7 8 | 6 125 25 | | 6 1358 1358 | 23 12 9 | 7 125 4 | | 4 17 2 | 5 167 67 | 9 8 3 | +----------------------+---------------------+-----------------+ | 1257* 1256 157* | 8 2567 23567 | 13 4 9 | | 3 48-7 78* | 1 9 47 | 25 256 256 | | 125 124569 159 | 24 2456 23456 | 13 7 8 | +----------------------+---------------------+-----------------+ X . X | X * . | . . . / . / | / . . | . . . / . / | / . . | . . . ------+-------+------ X . X | X * . | . . . / . / | / . . | . . . / . / | / . . | . . . ------+-------+------ X . X | / . . | . . . . * X | / . . | . . . . . . | / . . | . . . Row Finless Franken Swordfish: r568/c26b6 => r23c2<>5,r4c7<>5 .135.........7.4...........1......892.4.6....7.........8.1.....6.....2.....9.3... +---------------------+------------------+----------------------+ | 48 1 3 | 5 9 248 | 78 267 2678 | | 589 26-5 256 | 268 7 128 | 4 12359 12358 | | 4589 2467-5 2567 | 2468 3 1248 | 1589 1259 1258 | +---------------------+------------------+----------------------+ | 1 36 56 | 247 45 247 |367-5 8 9 | | 2 359* 4 | 78 6 5789* | 1357* 157* 157* | | 7 569* 8 | 3 1 59* | 56* 24 24 | +---------------------+------------------+----------------------+ | 3 8 279 | 1 245 6 | 579 4579 457 | | 6 45* 19 | 47 8 57* | 2 139 13 | | 45 27 127 | 9 245 3 | 1578 14567 145678 | +---------------------+------------------+----------------------+ . . . | . . . | . . . . * . | . . . | . . . . * . | . . . | . . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . . . | * . . / X / | / / X | X X X / X / | / / X | X . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . . . | . . . / X / | / / . | / / / . . . | . . . | . . .

by **Havard** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:14 pm

Ruud wrote:Well ... it could be a 2-string kite if each line had only one candidate in box 1. Seems that we can relax the definition of 2-string kite a little.
Ruud

This reminds me of a post long forgotten: http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/viewtopic.php?p=22737#p22737

Havard

by **Mike Barker** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:11 pm

Here's a Finless Franken Squirmbag. Normally I try to find puzzles where the highlighted technique is in some sense the next logical one. To find this guy I dumbed down my solver so there are lots of other techniques possible. If you throw it into simple sudoku you still don't quite get the same pencil marks because SS doesn't do finned fish. Some of of the previous fish also don't quite resolve in SS, however, you can get pretty close.

Code: Select all: Row Finless Franken Squirmbag: r12359/c1246b3 => r78c6<>7 8.3.9.56..49.8...3....6.......5..8......4.9...51..2...2.......55..4.......4..1..9 +--------------+-----------------+-----------------+ | 8 27* 3 | 1 9 47* | 5 6 247* | | 6 4 9 | 27* 8 5 | 17* 127* 3 | | 1 27* 5 | 237* 6 347* | 47* 9 8 | +--------------+-----------------+-----------------+ | 4 36 67 | 5 1 9 | 8 237 27 | | 37* 8 2 | 367* 4 367* | 9 5 1 | | 9 5 1 | 8 37 2 | 3467 347 467 | +--------------+-----------------+-----------------+ | 2 1 678 | 9 37 368-7 | 3467 347 5 | | 5 9 678 | 4 2 368-7 | 1367 137 67 | | 37* 36 4 | 67* 5 1 | 2 8 9 | +--------------+-----------------+-----------------+ . X / | . / X | . . X . . . | X / . | X X . . X / | X / X | X . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . . . | . . . X . / | X / X | / / / . . . | . . . | . . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . . * | . . . . . . | . . * | . . . X . / | X / . | / / /

Not surprising this guy has a mutant alternative (as opposed to the dual which is a c35b69 finless Franken Jellyfish):

Code: Select all: Mutant Swordfish: r59c5/c1b58 => r78c6<>7 +--------------+------------------+-----------------+ | 8 27 3 | 1 9 47 | 5 6 247 | | 6 4 9 | 27 8 5 | 17 127 3 | | 1 27 5 | 237 6 347 | 47 9 8 | +--------------+------------------+-----------------+ | 4 36 67 | 5 1 9 | 8 237 27 | | 37* 8 2 | 367* 4 367* | 9 5 1 | | 9 5 1 | 8 37* 2 | 3467 347 467 | +--------------+------------------+-----------------+ | 2 1 678 | 9 37* 368-7 | 3467 47 5 | | 5 9 678 | 4 2 368-7 | 1367 137 67 | | 37* 36 4 | 67* 5 1 | 2 8 9 | +--------------+------------------+-----------------+

by **Mike Barker** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:47 pm

Here are a few additional Kraken Fish as well. The last one is the most interesting since it is not only cannibalistic, but also uses part of the fish in creating the nice links.

Code: Select all: 1-link Kraken Row X-Wing: r38/c1b2,fins=r8c34 (r8c4|r3c6|r3c5-3-r12c4-8-, r8c3=8=r8c8-8-): r3c156|r8c134=3 => r2c8<>8 8...2.1.......9....651...2....5....3.3..61....874......1.24.3......169.4......7.. +--------------------+------------------+----------------------+ | 8 479 349 | 36@ 2 3457 | 1 34579 5679 | | 1234 247 1234 | 368@ 3578 9 | 4568 34567-8 5678 | | 349* 6 5 | 1 378* 3478* | 48 2 789 | +--------------------+------------------+----------------------+ | 12469 249 12469 | 5 789 278 | 2468 46789 3 | | 2459 3 249 | 789 6 1 | 2458 45789 5789 | | 2569 8 7 | 4 39 23 | 256 569 1 | +--------------------+------------------+----------------------+ | 79 1 89 | 2 4 578 | 3 568 568 | | 237* 25 238#$ | 37# 1 6 | 9 58$ 4 | | 346 45 3468 | 389 3589 358 | 7 1 2 | +--------------------+------------------+----------------------+ . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . * . X . / | . X X | / / / ------+-------+------ . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . . | . . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . . . | . . . X / # | # / / | / / / . . . | . . . | . . . 1-link Kraken Column X-Wing: c57/r3b6,fins=r1c7,r6c5 (r45c7|r6c5-4-r6c8|r45c9-5-, r1c7-4-r1c28-5-) => r1c9<>5 ..7..8.....6.2.3...3......9.1..5..6.....1.....7.9....2........4.83..4...26....51. +------------------+---------------------+----------------------+ | 1459 245$ 7 | 1356 39 8 | 246# 245$ 16-5 | | 14589 459 6 | 1457 2 1579 | 3 4578 158 | | 1458 3 128 | 4567 47* 1567 | 24678* 24578 9 | +------------------+---------------------+----------------------+ | 3489 1 289 | 23478 5 237 | 4789* 6 38@ | | 34689 249 289 | 234678 1 2367 | 4789* 345789 358@ | | 34568 7 58 | 9 48# 36 | 1 348@ 2 | +------------------+---------------------+----------------------+ | 7 59 159 | 125 368 125 | 68 38 4 | | 15 8 3 | 15 67 4 | 29 29 67 | | 2 6 4 | 378 3789 379 | 5 1 378 | +------------------+---------------------+----------------------+ . . . | . / . | # . * . . . | . / . | / . . . . . | . X . | X . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . / . | X . . . . . | . / . | X . . . . . | . # . | . . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . / . | / . . . . . | . / . | / . . . . . | . / . | / . . 1-link Kraken Row Swordfish: r258/c356,fins=r2c2,r5c8,r8c9 (r2c2=7=r1c3-7-, r5c8=7=r5c7-7-, r8c3-3-r1c3-7-, r8c9=7=r2c9-7-): r2c256|r5c68|r8c3569=3 => r1c7<>7 .5..9......12.......6..73.8....2...4...98...53.....91.7.....6...4.8..1..1.8.7.... +-------------------+----------------------+---------------------+ | 248 5 37@% | 346 9 3468 | 24-7 2467 1 | | 489 37#@ 1 | 2 3456* 34568* | 45 4679 679& | | 249 29 6 | 145 145 7 | 3 2459 8 | +-------------------+----------------------+---------------------+ | 569 1679 579 | 13567 2 1356 | 8 36 4 | | 26 126 24 | 9 8 134* | 27$ 2367#$ 5 | | 3 8 2457 | 4567 456 456 | 9 1 26 | +-------------------+----------------------+---------------------+ | 7 239 2359 | 1345 1345 123459 | 6 8 239 | | 2569 4 2359* | 8 356* 23569* | 1 2579 2379#& | | 1 369 8 | 356 7 23569 | 245 2459 239 | +-------------------+----------------------+---------------------+ . . . | . . . | * . . / # . | / X X | / / / . . . | . . . | . . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . . . | . . . / / . | / . X | / # / . . . | . . . | . . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . . . | . . . / / X | / X X | / / # . . . | . . . | . . . 1-link Kraken Column Swordfish: c346/r1b58,fins=r3c6,r9c3 (r346c6|r9c3-7-r9c6-4-, r6c4-7-r128c4-4-): r19c3|r1678c4|r34679c6=7 => r7c4<>4 6....38......2...7..95.....96.18....7.........8.....49.........3.2.95...1..6..2.5 +--------------------+----------------------+------------------------+ | 6 12457 157* | 479*$ 147 3 | 8 1259 124 | | 458 1345 13458 | 489$ 2 14689 | 134569 13569 7 | | 248 12347 9 | 5 1467 14678# | 1346 1236 12346 | +--------------------+----------------------+------------------------+ | 9 6 345 | 1 8 247* | 357 2357 23 | | 7 12345 1345 | 2349 3456 2469 | 1356 123568 12368 | | 25 8 135 | 237* 3567 267* | 13567 4 9 | +--------------------+----------------------+------------------------+ | 458 4579 6 | 2378-4* 1347 12478* | 3479 3789 348 | | 3 47 2 | 478*$ 9 5 | 1467 1678 1468 | | 1 479 478# | 6 347 47*@ | 2 3789 5 | +--------------------+----------------------+------------------------+ . . X | X . . | . . . . . / | / . / | . . . . . / | / . # | . . . ------+-------+------ . . / | . . X | . . . . . / | . . . | . . . . . / | X . X | . . . ------+-------+------ . . / |*X . X | . . . . . / | X . . | . . . . . # | . . X | . . .

by **ronk** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:03 pm

Mike Barker wrote:Here are a few additional Kraken Fish as well.

Mike, for a "pattern" that includes a chain to be a fish, don't you think we should be able to make the exclusion(s) based on only the candidates of a single digit?

I certainly do ... and also think the exclusion(s) neet to be true if all the fin cells are false.

by **Mike Barker** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:24 pm

As long as we are clear about the definitions being used, what titles we give things is a process of mutually agreeing on the words. Myth's "Kraken Fish" used the same digit throughout; Anne's did not. Kraken fish, as I use the term, are closely related to Almost fish. In fact, they are my way of understanding how to construct an Almost Fish nice loop expanded to allow multiple chains. In this context the links clearly do not have to contain only one digit. We can use one term to identify "Kraken Fish" with only one digit and another to identify eliminations when the CEC uses a different candidate then the fish. My personal opinion is that the former catagory may be too restrictive since it eliminates most of the linking element options (ALS/bivalues and 8 of 9 strong link options in a 1-link fish).

by **ronk** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:50 am

Mike Barker wrote:Here ... Row Finless Franken Squirmbag: r12359/c1246b3 => r78c6<>7
8.3.9.56..49.8...3....6.......5..8......4.9...51..2...2.......55..4.......4..1..9
...
Code: Select all
. X / | . / X | . . X . . / | X / . | X X . . X / | X / X | X . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . . . | . . . X . / | X / X | / / / . . . | . . . | . . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . . * | . . . . . . | . . * | . . . X . / | X / . | / / /

Not surprising this guy has a mutant alternative (as opposed to the dual which is a c35b69 finless Franken Jellyfish):
Mutant Swordfish: r59c5/c1b58 => r78c6<>7

Based on just the "empty cells" in your grid above, an equivalent alternative would be r59c14\b4578

Code: Select all: X X / | X / X | X X X . . / | . / . | . . . X X / | X / X | X X X . . / | . / . | . . . X X / | X / X | X X X . . / | . / . | . . . -------+-------+------- -------+-------+------- * * . | * . * | . . . * * X | * X * | . . . X X / | X / X | / / / X X / | X / X | / / / * * . | * . * | . . . * * X | * X * | . . . -------+-------+------- -------+-------+------- * * . | * . * | . . . * * X | * X * | . . . * * . | * . * | . . . * * X | * X * | . . . X X / | X / X | / / / X X / | X / X | / / / finless finless franken squirmbag rrrrr\ccccb mutant jellyfish rrcc\bbbb

This suggests that every franken squirmbag with 3 lines in one band and 1 line in each of the other 2 bands ... has 4 empty rectangles as an equivalent.

by **tarek** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:37 pm

So, is the Finned Mutant Jellyfish .... the biggest fish to catch in the vanilla ocean

by **Mike Barker** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:04 am

I believe there should always be a finless mutant Jellyfish (or smaller fish) to perform the same eliminations as a finless Franken Squirmbag given the new definition of a Franken fish. I'm not so sure about finned Franken Squirmbags, but I haven't seen any yet given Mutant fish alternatives. There are, however, plenty of Finned Mutant Squirmbags. I've posted a couple here. Here's another:

Code: Select all: Finned Mutant Squirmbag: r259c3b9/r18c269,fins=r2c8,r7c7 => r1c7<>1 +---------------------+---------------------+---------------------+ | 4 1267 127* | 2378 5 3678 | 36-1 1236 9 | | 2679 12679* 3 | 4 267 267 | 8 1256# 12567* | | 267 8 5 | 1 2367 9 | 346 236 2467 | +---------------------+---------------------+---------------------+ | 23679 23679 278 | 2357 1237 4 | 1356 1356 1568 | | 367 3467 47 | 357 8 1357* | 2 9 1456* | | 1 5 248 | 6 9 23 | 34 7 48 | +---------------------+---------------------+---------------------+ | 8 1237 6 | 23579 1237 12357 | 159# 4 125* | | 5 124 1247* | 2789 1267 12678 | 169* 126* 3 | | 23 123* 9 | 235 4 12356* | 7 8 256 | +---------------------+---------------------+---------------------+ . . X | . . . | * . . . X . | . . . | . # X . . . | . . . | . . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . . . | . . . . . . | . . X | . . X . . . | . . . | . . . ------+-------+------ . . . | . . . | # . X . . X | . . . | X X . . X . | . . X | . . .

by **tarek** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:00 am

Mike Barker wrote:There are, however, plenty of Finned Mutant Squirmbags

This just proves how powerful fish can be....because of the mixing of rows & columns....I'm not sure how big the fish can get

tarek

by **ronk** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:26 pm

Mike Barker wrote:I believe there should always be a finless Franken Jellyfish (or smaller fish) to perform the same eliminations as a finless Franken Squirmbag given the new definition of a Franken fish. I'm not so sure about finned Franken Squirmbags, but I haven't seen any yet given Mutant fish alternatives.

I'm not sure of the meaning of your second sentence but I believe ...

Given a franken fish, there is always a smaller alternative fish that yields the same eliminations. The franken fish may be either finned or unfinned and the alternative will be either franken or mutant.

There are, however, plenty of Finned Mutant Squirmbags. I've posted a couple here. Here's another ...

It appears no such statement will apply to the mutants.

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