The highest rated 19 clue puzzle

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Re: The highest rated 19 clue puzzle

Postby 999_Springs » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:35 pm

dobrichev wrote:
Hidden Text: Show
I know girls who have had to deal with unwanted pregnancy in similar situations, and know what they would say about the valuable phone.

what? who leaves her BABY IN THE BACK OF A TAXI? EWWWWWWW
Pat wrote:how she got prenyast.

Pat wrote:prenyast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EShUeudtaFg
coloin wrote:Well am sure 999_Springs will be able to look after his phone now that he knows ....

here is a
........4....2.5....34...6..7........2..5.1....48....3....1.7....63...8..5....... ED=10.0/1.5/1.5

nice 10.0, yeah the thing is i'm really overprotective of my stuff so it makes me so upset when i lose things

i'm currently doing a vicinity search on all the 20's in champagne's database (he says there are 79 but i looked through the file and only found 35? can someone send me all of them plz) no results so far though i'll report back if i find something nice

edit:
mike posted an example of a 19-clue 9.8/9.8/3.8 here
Code: Select all
 . 1 . . 2 . . 3 .
 4 . . 5 . . 6 . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 . 3 . . 7 . . 1 .
 6 . . 4 . . 5 . .
 . . . . . . . . .
 . 2 . . 1 . . 7 .
 8 . . 6 . . 9 . .
 . . . . . . . . 8   ED=9.8/9.8/3.8

this was further discussed here by blue who found a 9.9/9.9/3.8 with the same pattern
Code: Select all
. 1 . . 2 . . 3 .
4 . . 5 . . 6 . .
. . . . . . . . .
. 2 . . 3 . . 1 .
6 . . 7 . . 4 . .
. . . . . . . . .
. 8 . . 9 . . 2 .
7 . . 6 . . 5 . .
. . . . . . . . 9   ED=9.9/9.9/3.8
Last edited by 999_Springs on Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Once upon a time I was a teenager who was active on here 2007-2011
ocean and eleven should have paired up to make a sudoku-solving duo called Ocean's Eleven
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Re: The highest rated 19 clue puzzle

Postby champagne » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:12 pm

79 in the data base, but as indicated earlier, more in my seed data base
Hidden Text: Show
5.......9.2.1...7...8...3...4...2.......5.......7.6.1...3...8...6...4.2.9.......5;11.60;11.60;3.40;20
5.......9.2.1...7...8...3...4.6.........5.......2.7.1...3...8...6...4.2.9.......5;11.80;11.80;3.40;20
1....67...5.........9....4......18.37...3.6.....2...9.3....8..1..........425.....;11.30;1.50;1.50;20
...4.....4....92...8..7...12.....5...3.....68.....5....1..6........1..739....4...;11.20;11.20;2.60;20
.2.4....9..6.8....7...3.........78..........1.9.5...2.3.....6.....2...94.1......5;11.20;1.20;1.20;20
.2.4....9..6.8....7...3.........78..........1.9.5...2.3.....6.....2...95.1......4;11.20;1.20;1.20;20
.2.4....9.........8....3.5....91....6....5.7..9......23.....6...1.7....4.....8.3.;11.20;1.20;1.20;20
........94...8.2.....7...1...15......6...7...9...4...33.....8......2...4..56...7.;11.20;1.20;1.20;20
...4.....4....92...8..7..1.2.....5...3.....68.....5....1..6........1..739....4...;11.10;11.10;2.60;20
.....6.8..5.1.9.......7...42.4.......8.6...9.....3...23.2.......6.8...1.........7;11.10;11.10;2.60;20
1.....7...5...9....8.3....42...6.....9.8....5.....4..........1..4...3..87...2.6..;11.10;11.10;2.60;20
.........4....9.2...81....62.....9.......43....75....13.....6.....86......1.7...5;11.10;11.10;2.60;20
.2...67..4...8......93.........7.....7...26.1......5.2..8.9..3...........1...5..6;11.10;1.20;1.20;20
.2...6.....718.......3....5..5.3...8......49..9...4.............6....92...18....7;11.10;1.20;1.20;20
.2.4...8....1....6..9.3......5......7.....9...1.2....43...7.5...4......8...6...4.;11.10;1.20;1.20;20
1..4...8..5...9..3..........3..759.......3..6..42.......2....1..9..6...78........;11.10;1.20;1.20;20
1....67......8......92....4.4.3...9......18....5.....3..........345...2.7.....6..;11.10;1.20;1.20;20
12...6...45....1..........6...9....86....12......3..7............78....3.1...54..;11.10;1.20;1.20;20
..34....9.5..8.2.............47......1..68........28..3.......7..9....3..6...15..;11.00;1.20;1.20;20
1...56......7....3....2..6.2...9..5...83....4.4........7......86....5.9...4......;11.00;1.20;1.20;20
1....6....5.7....1..8....4..1.3....7....4.8....9....2...2.9.....6.5.1..3.........;11.00;1.20;1.20;20
.....2..14...5..3....7..6.....6....7..3.8..4......12..5...4.....6.......3.9....8.;10.80;10.80;3.40;20
.....2..14...5..3....7..6.....6....7..3.8..5......12..5...4.....7.......3.9....8.;10.80;10.80;3.40;20
1.....9...3...7.4...5.....2.....6.7.....1.....4.3.8...9.......5.7.8...3...2...1..;10.70;10.70;3.40;20
1.......2.3.4...5...6...7...5.8.9.......1.........3.4...7...6...9...5.3.2.......1;10.70;10.70;3.40;20
2...9...7.6.....3...8...4.......6......51...97...2......4...8...3.....6.9..1....2;10.70;10.70;3.40;20
1.......2.3.4...5...6...7...8.3.5.......1.........9.4...7...6...4...8.3.2.......1;10.70;10.70;3.40;20
.....2..14...5..3....7..6.....6....7..3.8..4......12..5...4.....7.......3.9....8.;10.70;10.70;3.40;20
9.......6.7...3.8...2...4.......1.3.....6.....8.5.7...6.....2...5.8...7...4.....9;10.70;10.70;3.40;20
98.7.....6.....5....4.......7.8..9......3..4......2..1.5.9..6......4..3......1..2;10.80;10.80;3.40;20
98.7.....6.....5....4......5..8..6......4..3......2..1.7.5..8......3..4......1..2;10.80;10.80;3.40;20
..1...2...4...8.9.6.......7.....3.4.....2.....8.9.5...7.......6.9.4...3...2...1..;10.70;10.70;3.40;20
..1...2...3...4.5.6.......7.....3.8.....1.....4.9.8...7.......1.5.8...4...2...6..;10.80;10.80;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4...5....2..36...1..7....8..9...4...3..4.2..7..1....9..8.....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4...5....2..6.5..7..1.4..8..9.......6..52...1..7....9..8.....;10.60;10.60;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4.3.5....3..52...1.6.....7.......8..5..9.4..8.......6..1....7;10.50;10.50;9.60;20
........1.......23..3..45....2..63...7..1....8..9.......6..2.4..1..8....9..7.....;10.50;10.50;2.60;20
........1......23...2..45....3..6.4..1..7....8..9.......6..3.2..9..8....7..1.....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
........1.....2..3..4...56...2..3.4..1..7....8..9.......3..62...7.1.....9...8....;10.60;10.60;2.60;20
........1.....2..3..4...25...3..4.6..7..1....8..9.......6..34...1..7....9..8.....;10.50;10.50;2.60;20
........1.....2.3...4...5.6..2..3.6..7..1....8..9.......3..62...9.8.....1...7....;10.60;10.60;2.60;20
........1.....2.3...4...5.6..2..6.4..1..7....8..9.......6..32...7..8....9..1.....;10.60;10.60;2.60;20
........1.....2.3...4...5.6..2..6.4..1..7....8..9.......6..52...7..8....9..1.....;10.60;10.60;2.60;20
........1.....2.3...3...4.5..2..6.5..1..7....8..9.......6..52...9.8.....7...1....;10.50;10.50;2.60;20
........1......23...4..5.6...2..6.4..7..1....8..9.......6..35...1..7....9..8.....;10.70;10.70;3.40;20
........1......23...4..5.6...3..6.5..1..7....8..9.......6..34...9..1....7..8.....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
........1......23...4..5.6...3..7.4..6..8....9..1.......7..35...8..6....1..9.....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
........1......23...4..5.6...2..3.5..1..7....8..9.......6..24...7..1....9..8.....;10.60;10.60;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4...56...2..34...1..7....8..9.......3..6.2..7.1.....9...8....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4...56...2..54...7..1....8..9.......5..6.2..1..7....9..8.....;10.60;10.60;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4...56...3..6.2..1..7....8..9.......6..34...9..1....7..8.....;10.60;10.60;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4...56...2..64...1..7....8..9.......6..3.2..9.8.....7...1....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4...56...2..64...7..1....8..9.......6..3.2..1.8.....9...7....;10.60;10.60;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4...56...2..64...7..1....8..9.......6..3.2..1.7.....9...8....;10.60;10.60;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4...56...3..42...1..7....8..9.......5..3.4..9.8.....7...1....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4...56...3..42...1..7....8..9.......5..3.4..7..1....9..8.....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
...........1..2..3.4..5..6.......1.7..7..32...8.....5...3..19..4..8.....6..4.....;10.90;10.90;2.60;20
........1......23...2..4.5...4..65...1..7....8..9.......6..2.4..7..1....9..8.....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4...52...2..54...1..6....7..8.......5..4.9..6..7....8..1.....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4...52...2..4.6..7..1....8..9.......3..64...9.7.....1...8....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
..............1.23..4.5.6......7.5.....4......8...2.9...76......2...9.1.93......8;10.50;10.50;2.60;20
........1.....2.3...4....25..5..4.6..7..1....8..9.......6..54...9.7.....1...8....;10.60;10.60;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...3...45...2..3.6..7..1....8..9.......6..52...9.7.....1...8....;10.60;10.60;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...3...45...4..3.6..1..7....8..9.......6..42...9.1.....7...8....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...3...45...2..46...1..7....8..9.......4..6.2..7..1....9..8.....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
..............1.23..4.5.6.....5..7....564.....8...2.....69..5...3......88......1.;11.20;11.20;2.60;20
........1.....2.3...3...42...2..5.6..1..7....8..9.......5..62...7..1....9..8.....;10.60;10.60;3.40;20
........1.....2.3...4....56..2..34...7..1....8..9.......3..4.6..1..7....9..8.....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
...........1..2..3.4..5..6.........7...64..5..7.58......9...2...5.7...8.3.......1;10.90;1.20;1.20;20
..............1..2..3.4.56.....5.6....6...47..8......9..5.6..3..2...9...1..8.....;10.70;10.70;3.40;20
..............1..2..3.4.56.......67...7.3..4..8......9..6.5.4...1.8.....9....2...;10.90;1.20;1.20;20
........1.......2...3..45.6..1..73...5..2....8..9.......7..64...2..5....9..8.....;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
........1.......2...1..34.5..3..65...2..7....8..9.......4..16...7..2....9..8.....;10.50;10.50;3.80;20
...........1..2..3.4..5..6.........7...68.....7.54..8...3...9...8.7...5.2.......1;11.10;1.20;1.20;20
...............123..4..5..6..1..34...7..2....8..9.......3..6..5.2..7....9..8.....;10.50;10.50;2.60;20
98.7.....76....5......5....6..8..9....4.3..2...........5.6..7......2..1......4..3;10.90;1.20;1.20;20
98.7..6..75...........6....5..8..9....4.3..2...........6.5..8......2...1.....4.3.;11.10;1.20;1.20;20
1.....7...6...3.9...4.....5.....9.6.....4.....8.3.2...5.......1.9.6...8...7...4..;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
9..7.....8.7...6...5.......4..6..9......3..5......2..1..69..7......1..3......5..2;10.50;10.50;3.40;20
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Re: The highest rated 19 clue puzzle

Postby ghfick » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:21 pm

I may be slightly off topic here but these puzzles [starting with the 9.5 and before champagne's list] each have a 3x3 MSLS [with no extra cells needed]. I cannot recall ever seeing such 'small' MSLS's with only 9 cells and 9 digit covers. Philip Beeby's MSLS list does include some 3x3's but they all needed extra cells. Would these 3x3 MSLS examples be the smallest? Could there be a 3x2 or a 2x2?
Best
Gordon
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Re: The highest rated 19 clue puzzle

Postby ghfick » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:10 pm

I have now found one of these puzzles with 2 [count em 2! different] 3x3 MSLS moves :
.1..2..3.4..5..6............3..7..1.6..4..5............2..1..7.8..6..9..........8
I cannot recall ever seeing a puzzle with 2 different MSLS moves [of any size!]. Each MSLS has 25 exclusions and they are all different.
Using Philip Beeby's solver :
Base: 237
9 cell Truths: r147 c147
9 links: 7r1, 2r4, 3r7, 59c1, 89c4, 48c7
25 eliminations: r1c3<>7, r1c6<>7, r1c9<>7, r4c3<>2, r4c6<>2, r4c9<>2, r7c3<>3, r7c6<>3, r7c9<>3, r3c1<>5, r3c1<>9, r6c1<>5, r6c1<>9, r9c1<>5, r9c1<>9, r3c4<>8, r3c4<>9, r6c4<>8, r6c4<>9, r9c4<>9, r3c7<>4, r3c7<>8, r6c7<>4, r6c7<>8, r9c7<>4
Base: 237
9 cell Truths: c258 r258
9 links: 89r2, 89r5, 45r8, 7c2, 3c5, 2c8
25 eliminations: r2c3<>8, r2c3<>9, r2c6<>8, r2c6<>9, r2c9<>9, r5c3<>8, r5c3<>9, r5c6<>8, r5c6<>9, r5c9<>9, r8c3<>4, r8c3<>5, r8c6<>4, r8c6<>5, r8c9<>4, r8c9<>5, r3c2<>7, r6c2<>7, r9c2<>7, r3c5<>3, r6c5<>3, r9c5<>3, r3c8<>2, r6c8<>2, r9c8<>2
Allan Barker's XSudo also finds these two moves [with different namings but, I think, the same logic]. The first is called a 'Complex Rank 0 Loop' and the second is called a 'Multi ALS + Cell Loop'
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Postby Pat » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:37 am

Pat wrote:prenyast

otokorekt ?

999_Springs wrote:

thanks!!
( another reminder of my failing memory )
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Re: The highest rated 19 clue puzzle

Postby coloin » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:03 pm

Code: Select all
1...2.5..........9..8..3.............7..5.1....9..6..32..1..7.......9.6...3.....8 ED=10.3/10.3/3.8


It looks like the hard puzzles tend to have diagonal clues .... with 3 clues in one box and 2 in the eight others

and they can all be morphed into a box159 configuration
Code: Select all
+---+---+---+
|1..|...|...|
|.2.|...|...|
|...|...|...|
+---+---+---+
|...|3..|...|
|...|.4.|...|
|...|..5|...|
+---+---+---+
|...|...|...|
|...|...|.6.|
|...|...|..7|
+---+---+---+ 


To put 2 clues in each 6 boxes
9*4 / 2 = 18 ways
18^6 = 34012224

row and band swaps can reduce this by 6 , 2^5 = 177147 patterns would be an upper limit perhaps ... :roll:

As a guess probably there are around 2000 puzzles per pattern

so I would say a few patterns to test to get the definitive answer !
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Re: The highest rated 19 clue puzzle

Postby coloin » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:33 am

And trying to see how many 19Cpatterns with the diagonal {322222222} pattern there are ...

The representatives of the 15 27C diagonal patterns
here - only 15

Code: Select all
#01# ..1..2..3.2..1..4.5..6..1....2..4..1.5..6..7.7..2..3....7..5..8.8..7..9.9..3..2.. #   C27/S4.da/M1.16.3   
#02# 2...4...6..4..2.3..7.8..1....24...1.1...3...2.3...54....5..9.7..1.6..2..6...7...9 #   C27.M/S4.da/M1.31.2
#03# ..2..3.1..3..1.2..5..6....4..5..7.2..9..4.8..6..9....7.8..9..5.2..5..4....3..8..9 #   C27/S2.d/M1.33.1   
#04# ..1.2.3...2...1..43..5...6...42...8.9...3...2.3...67...4...3..75..8...4...2.6.1.. #   C27.M/S2.p/M1.13.4
#05# 1....2..3.9..4..1...73..5....21....9.6..2..5.9....56....3..41...7..8..2.2..6....8 #   C27.M/S4.da/M1.11.6
#06# 2...3.1....14...2..5...6..3.6.2..4..3...5..7...7..3..65..8..7...9..1..4...6..2..9 #   C27/S2.d           
#07# .2..7...84..6..9....5..4.7..1.2..3..2...1...4..3..5.6..9.5..6....1..7..37...3..5. #   C27.M/S4.da/M1.16.1
#08# 1..3..2...2..4..1...3..6..52...8..7..7.5..3....9..1..67...9.5...4.1....8..8..2.6. #   C27/S2.d           
#09# ..2.1.3...1...2.4.5..3....2..5..7.8.6...3...4.4.6..9..7....4..6.3.2...5...4.9.7.. #   C27.M/S4.da         
#10# ..1..2..3.2..1..4.3..5..6....51..2...4..7...12....8.3...96...7..6..4.3..8....7..4 #   C27 [asymmetric]   
#11# ..1..3..2.2..4..3.4..6..5....23...1..4...57..5...9...8..6.8..7..9.1..6..7....2..1 #   C27/S2.d           
#12# 2..1....3..1..2.4..5..3.6..5..7...9...6.8.2...8...4..1..7.6..8..6.4..1..3....7..5 #   C27/S4.da           
#13# 2...3.1....14...2..5...6..3.6.2..4..3....4.7...7.8...65..8..7...9..1..4...6..2..9 #   C27/S2.d           
#14# 6....2.7...8.1...5.9.5..3....2..1..3.1..2..4.5..3..2....4..8.9.1...9.8...3.4....7 #   C27.M/S4.da         
#15# ..1.2...3.2...34..5..1...6...4..1.7.2...9...6.6.4..8...9...2..8..69...1.3...5.7.. #   C27.M/S4.da


I removed 8 clues from the asymmetric C27 pattern [#10#] to leave a 19C pattern
[ 1 clues from each box - all ways] 9* 3^8 = 59049
Just in case each box is not the same ....

this was confirmed by the process , and isomorphic patterns removed leaving

for #10# there were 29565 ED 19C {322222222} patterns
for #01# there were only 172 ED 19C {322222222} patterns

of course just to scupper the theory .... there may be harder puzzles which dont have the diagonal pattern in the box with 3 clues :roll:

Code: Select all
+---+---+---+
|1..|...|...|
|...|.7.|5..|
|..3|8..|.9.|
+---+---+---+
|...|.3.|...|
|4..|.5.|1..|
|..8|..6|..3|
+---+---+---+
|...|.1.|7..|
|..6|3..|.8.|
|5..|...|...|
+---+---+---+  ED=10.4/1.2/1.2

Code: Select all
1............7.5....38...9.....3....4...5.1....8..6..3....1.7....63...8.5........ ED=10.4/1.2/1.2
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