The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[coloin]

yes.. you can see that the TE3 minexpand and TE2 maxexpand puzzles are in the same region as each other... but with an extra clue in the TE3

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all

1.....78.4.718.2.3....7..1424.967...7....4......8.34..3.2..8..1.74..18.281....3..###123456789457189263689372514245967138738514926961823475392748651574631892816295347
1.....78.4.718.2.3....7..1424.967...7..5........8.34..3.2..8..1.74...8.281....3..###123456789457189263689372514245967138738514926961823475392748651574631892816295347
1.....78.4.718.2.3....7..1424.967...7..5........8.34..3.2..8..1.74..18.281....3..###123456789457189263689372514245967138738514926961823475392748651574631892816295347
1.....78.4.718.2.3....7..1424.967...7..5.4......8.34..3.2..8..1.74..18.281....3..###123456789457189263689372514245967138738514926961823475392748651574631892816295347
                                                                                                                                                                     
1..4..78.4.718.2.3.......1424.967...7....4......8.34..3.2..8..1.74..18.281....3..###123456789457189263689372514245967138738514926961823475392748651574631892816295347
#####################################################################################################################################################################
                                                                                                                                                                     
1.3..6...45.1.9.3..96....1......19.8....951729.....4.33...64...56.91.3...4.5.3...###123456789457189236896237514275341968634895172981672453319764825562918347748523691
1.3..6...45.1.9.36.96....1......1..8....951729.....4.33...64...56.91.3...4.5.36..###123456789457189236896237514275341968634895172981672453319764825562918347748523691
1.3..6...45.1.9.36.96....1......19......951729.....4.33...64...56.91.3...4.5.36..###123456789457189236896237514275341968634895172981672453319764825562918347748523691
1.3..6...45.1.9.36.96....1......19.8....951729.....4.33...64...56.91.3...4.5.36..###123456789457189236896237514275341968634895172981672453319764825562918347748523691
                                                                                                                                                                     
1.3..6..945.1.9.36.96...........19......951729.....4.33...64...56.91.3...4.5.36..###123456789457189236896237514275341968634895172981672453319764825562918347748523691
#####################################################################################################################################################################
                                                                                                                                                                     
....56......1.926...923..15.3.....96...9..13.91.36.5.2392....5..4.5.3...785......###123456789457189263869237415234715896576928134918364572392841657641573928785692341
....56......1.926...923..15.3.....96...9..13.91.36.5.2392...65..4.5.3....856.....###123456789457189263869237415234715896576928134918364572392841657641573928785692341
....56......1.926...923..15.3.....96...9..13.91.36.5.2392...65..4.5.3...7856.....###123456789457189263869237415234715896576928134918364572392841657641573928785692341
                                                                                                                                                                     
....56......1.926...923..15.3.....96...9..13.91.36.5.2392...65..4.5......8569....###123456789457189263869237415234715896576928134918364572392841657641573928785692341
#####################################################################################################################################################################
                                                                                                                                                                     
.234..7.94.7....6369.......2.9..8......724.96..69.5.....4....32.62.4397......26.4###123456789457189263698237415219368547385724196746915328574691832862543971931872654
.234..7.94.7....6369.......2.9..8......724.96..6915.....4....32.62.4397......26.4###123456789457189263698237415219368547385724196746915328574691832862543971931872654
                                                                                                                                                                     
.234..7.94.7....6369.........9..8......724.96.469.5.....4....32.62.4397......26.4###123456789457189263698237415219368547385724196746915328574691832862543971931872654
#####################################################################################################################################################################
                                                                                                                                                                     
1.3....8..57....36....3...1.38...67.5.68...13...3..8.5..5721......59.......6.3157###123456789457189236689237541238915674546872913971364825365721498714598362892643157
                                                                                                                                                                     
1.3..678..57....3668...75.1..8...67.5.687..13....6.8.5..5.21.......9.......6.3157###123456789457189236689237541238915674546872913971364825365721498714598362892643157
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                                                                                 ###                                                                                 
12....78..57...2.66.8....152.56..1.........2.78..1.56....3........947.52.72..8...###123456789457189236698732415245693178316875924789214563564321897831947652972568341
12....78..57...2.66.8....152.56..1.........2.78..1.56....32.......947.52.72..8...###123456789457189236698732415245693178316875924789214563564321897831947652972568341
12....78..57...2.66.8....152.56..1.........2.78.21.56....3........947.52.7...8...###123456789457189236698732415245693178316875924789214563564321897831947652972568341
                                                                                                                                                                     
12...678..57...2.66.8..2.152.56......16....2.78.21.56....3........9.7.5..72.68...###123456789457189236698732415245693178316875924789214563564321897831947652972568341
#####################################################################################################################################################################
                                                                                                                                                                     
12....78..57...2.66.8....1528..1.56........7.7.56..1.....3........942.57.72..8...###123456789457189236698237415289714563316825974745693128564371892831942657972568341
12....78..57...2.66.8....1528..1.56........7.7.56..1.....37.......942.57.72..8...###123456789457189236698237415289714563316825974745693128564371892831942657972568341
12....78..57...2.66.8....1528.71.56........7.7.56..1.....3........942.57.72..8...###123456789457189236698237415289714563316825974745693128564371892831942657972568341
                                                                                 #                                                                                   
12...678..57...2.66.8..7.1528.71.56..16....7.7.56........3........9.2.5..72.68...###123456789457189236698237415289714563316825974745693128564371892831942657972568341
#####################################################################################################################################################################


[blue]

Here are new batches of max-expands 11-15 and a link to the 4248 new minimals
(...)
BxB-Mastermins11-15.txt

My code has 30 of the puzzles in T&E(3) -- none with "mith" solution grids.

Code: Select all

...45.........9...689.72...29.7..86..1.......7......1..61...92.8.2....71.7...16.8
...45.........9...689.72...29.71.86..1.......7......1..61...92.8.2....71.7....6.8
...4.........89......37.154.31...64.5.4....7.67....3.5.6......7.......6..45.67.13
...4.....4...89......37.15..31...64.5.4....7.67....3.5.6......7.......6..45.67.13
...4.........89......37.154.31...64.5.46...7.67....3.5.6......7.......6..45..7.13
...4.....4...89......37.15..31...64.5.46...7.67....3.5.6......7.......6..45..7.13
.2..5....45..891........5.........4....81.29..4....3.6.1492..5.....48...89.5.1.2.
.2..5....45..891........5.........4....81429.......3.6.1492..5.....48...89.5.1.2.
1........45.....23.89..1........5..7.3..172.4.7....5..3.....4.15...24.7....1.3.5.
1........45....123.89...........5..7.3..172.4.7....5..3.....4.15...24.7....1.3.5.
1.3......45.....23.89..1........5..7.3..172.4.7....5........4.15...24.7....1.3.5.
1.3......45....123.89...........5..7.3..172.4.7....5........4.15...24.7....1.3.5.
1........45.....23.89..1........5..7.35.172.4.7....5..3.....4.1....24.7....1.3.5.
1........45....123.89...........5..7.35.172.4.7....5..3.....4.1....24.7....1.3.5.
1.3......45.....23.89..1........5..7.35.172.4.7....5........4.1....2437....1.3.5.
1.3......45....123.89...........5..7.35.172.4.7....5........4.1....2437....1.3.5.
.2..56....5.18..6.......5...4.....78.8....9......4.6.1.62.14...5.482....81.6.5..2
.2..56...45.18..6.......5.........78.8....9......4.6.1.62.14...5.482....81.6.5..2
.2..56....5.18..6.......5...4....37..8....9......48..1.62.14...5.482....81.6.5..2
.2..56...45.18..6.......5........37..8....9......48..1.62.14...5.482....81.6.5..2
.2..56....5.18..6.......5...4....378.8....9......4...1.62.14...5.482....81.6.5..2
.2..56...45.18..6.......5........378.8....9......4...1.62.14...5.482....81.6.5..2
....56......78.132...1.........4...8.34.2..17..8....4.3.7...8...128..4.3...2...71
....56......78.132...1.........4...8.34.28.17..8....4.3.7...8...12...4.3...2...71
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.2..17..8....4.3.7...82..128..4.3.......71
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.28.17..8....4.3.7...82..12...4.3.......71
....56......78.132...1.........4...8.34.2..71..8....4.3.7...8...128..4.3...2....7
....56......78.132...1.........4...8.34.28.71..8....4.3.7...8...12...4.3...2....7
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.2..71..8....4.3.7...82..128..4.3........7
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.28.71..8....4.3.7...82..12...4.3........7

Was that to be expected ?
Do I have a bug in my code to check for T&E(n>2) ?

Going by the solution grids, they must have have come from these "max-expands":

Code: Select all

...45.........9...689.72...29.71.86..18......7.6....1..61..792.8.2....7197...16.8 #3 #  3816 FNBP C33/M2.235.27  # 7 (*)
...4.....4...89......37.154.317..64.5.46...7167....3.5.6....4.7......56..45.67.13 #3 # 36791 FNBP C34/M2.94.69   # 8 (*)
.2..5....45..891.2.....25.........4....81429..4....3.6.1492..5.5.2.48...89.5.1.2. #2 #   800 FNBP C33/M1.2.45    #12 (*)
1.3......45....123.89..1........5..7.35.172.4.7....5..3..57.4.15...2437....1.3.52 #1 #   468 FNBP C34/M1.3.38    # 9 (*)
.2..56...45.18.26.......5..24....378.8....9......486.1.62.14...5.482...681.6.5..2 #1 # 95489 FNBP C35/M2.28.1872 # 8 (*)
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.28.17..8....4.3.7...82..128..4.384.2...71 #2 #   487 FNBP C33/M1.3.39    #12 (*)
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.28.71..8....4.3.7...82..128..4.384.2...17 #2 #   487 FNBP C33/M1.3.39    #12 (*)

[denis_berthier]

Hi Blue
I also find 30 minimals in T&E(3)
.I had eliminated them before computing the solution grids, so that the 7 new ones I found above are for puzzles in T&E(2).
.

[blue]

I also find 30 minimals in T&E(3)

Good news.
Thank you.

[denis_berthier]

yes.. you can see that the TE3 minexpand and TE2 maxexpand puzzles are in the same region as each other... but with an extra clue in the TE3
[hidden][code]1.....78.4.718.2.3....7..1424.967...7....4......8.34..3.2..8..1.74..18.281....3..###123456789457189263689372514245967138738514926961823475392748651574631892816295347
1.....78.4.718.2.3....7..1424.967...7..5........8.34..3.2..8..1.74...8.281....3..###123456789457189263689372514245967138738514926961823475392748651574631892816295347
1.....78.4.718.2.3....7..1424.967...7..5........8.34..3.2..8..1.74..18.281....3..###123456789457189263689372514245967138738514926961823475392748651574631892816295347
1.....78.4.718.2.3....7..1424.967...7..5.4......8.34..3.2..8..1.74..18.281....3..###123456789457189263689372514245967138738514926961823475392748651574631892816295347

1..4..78.4.718.2.3.......1424.967...7....4......8.34..3.2..8..1.74..18.281....3..###123456789457189263689372514245967138738514926961823475392748651574631892816295347

Yes, some additional clue, not in the tridagon cells, allows to short-circuit the tridagon T&E(3) complexity.
.

[coloin]

Was that to be expected ?

I mentioned these puzzles in the previous page, but I forgot that they were there when I removed the redundant clues from the "max-expands"
I guess I should remove those minimal TE3 puzzles

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all

.2..56...45.18.26.......5..24....378.8....9......486.1.62.14...5.482...681.6.5..2 # 8#     max-expand
.2..56....5.18.26.......5...4....378.8....9......486.1.62.14...5.482...681.6.5..2 #-4#TE3  min-expand
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.28.17..8....4.3.7...82..128..4.384.2...71 #12#   
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.28.17..8....4.3.7...82..128..4.3...2...71 #-4#TE3
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.28.71..8....4.3.7...82..128..4.384.2...17 #12#   
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.28.71..8....4.3.7...82..128..4.3...2...17 #-4#TE3
1.3......45....123.89..1........5..7.35.172.4.7....5..3..57.4.15...2437....1.3.52 # 9#   
1.3......45....123.89..1........5..7.35.172.4.7....5..3.....4.15...2437....1.3.52 #-4#TE3
...45.........9...689.72...29.71.86..16......7.8....1...1..792.8.2....7197...16.8 # 7#   
...45.........9...689.72...29.71.86..1.......7......1..61..792.8.2....7197...16.8 #-4#TE3
...4.....4...89......37.154.317..64.5.46...7167....3.5.6....4.7......56..45.67.13 # 8#   
...4.....4...89......37.154.317..64.5.46...7167....3.5.6......7.......6..45.67.13 #-4#TE3
.2..5....45..891.2.....25.........4....81429..4....3.6.1492..5.5.2.48...89.5.1.2. #12#   
.2..5....45..891........5.........4....81429..4....3.6.1492..5.....48...89.5.1.2. #-4#TE3

TE3 Minimals
...45.........9...689.72...29.7..86..1.......7......1..61...92.8.2....71.7...16.8
...45.........9...689.72...29.71.86..1.......7......1..61...92.8.2....71.7....6.8
...4.........89......37.154.31...64.5.4....7.67....3.5.6......7.......6..45.67.13
...4.....4...89......37.15..31...64.5.4....7.67....3.5.6......7.......6..45.67.13
...4.........89......37.154.31...64.5.46...7.67....3.5.6......7.......6..45..7.13
...4.....4...89......37.15..31...64.5.46...7.67....3.5.6......7.......6..45..7.13
.2..5....45..891........5.........4....81.29..4....3.6.1492..5.....48...89.5.1.2.
.2..5....45..891........5.........4....81429.......3.6.1492..5.....48...89.5.1.2.
1........45.....23.89..1........5..7.3..172.4.7....5..3.....4.15...24.7....1.3.5.
1........45....123.89...........5..7.3..172.4.7....5..3.....4.15...24.7....1.3.5.
1.3......45.....23.89..1........5..7.3..172.4.7....5........4.15...24.7....1.3.5.
1.3......45....123.89...........5..7.3..172.4.7....5........4.15...24.7....1.3.5.
1........45.....23.89..1........5..7.35.172.4.7....5..3.....4.1....24.7....1.3.5.
1........45....123.89...........5..7.35.172.4.7....5..3.....4.1....24.7....1.3.5.
1.3......45.....23.89..1........5..7.35.172.4.7....5........4.1....2437....1.3.5.
1.3......45....123.89...........5..7.35.172.4.7....5........4.1....2437....1.3.5.
.2..56....5.18..6.......5...4.....78.8....9......4.6.1.62.14...5.482....81.6.5..2
.2..56...45.18..6.......5.........78.8....9......4.6.1.62.14...5.482....81.6.5..2
.2..56....5.18..6.......5...4....37..8....9......48..1.62.14...5.482....81.6.5..2
.2..56...45.18..6.......5........37..8....9......48..1.62.14...5.482....81.6.5..2
.2..56....5.18..6.......5...4....378.8....9......4...1.62.14...5.482....81.6.5..2
.2..56...45.18..6.......5........378.8....9......4...1.62.14...5.482....81.6.5..2
....56......78.132...1.........4...8.34.2..17..8....4.3.7...8...128..4.3...2...71
....56......78.132...1.........4...8.34.28.17..8....4.3.7...8...12...4.3...2...71
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.2..17..8....4.3.7...82..128..4.3.......71
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.28.17..8....4.3.7...82..12...4.3.......71
....56......78.132...1.........4...8.34.2..71..8....4.3.7...8...128..4.3...2....7
....56......78.132...1.........4...8.34.28.71..8....4.3.7...8...12...4.3...2....7
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.2..71..8....4.3.7...82..128..4.3........7
....56......78.132...1.2.......4...8.34.28.71..8....4.3.7...82..12...4.3........7

From next batch 16
......7.9456....31......56..1......863.8.41.58..1.....36..18.5.5.134.....486.5.1. #12#
......7.9456....31......56..1......863.8.41.58..1.....36.....5.5.134.....486.5.1. #-4#TE3
......7.9456....31......56..1......836.8.41.58..1.....5.134....63..18.5..486.5.1. #12#
......7.9456....31......56..1......836.8.41.58..1.....5.134....63.....5..486.5.1. #-4#TE3

4218 minimals BxB-MasterMins11-15-allTE2.txt

[coloin]

Well, you might be right not to understand... because I cant find a real example where a minimal puzzle has 2 different max expands both in BxB6+

indeed i have found examples where the max expands diverge from the single max-expand !!

All from previously posted BxB>6 max-expands. So these will give a few duplicate minimals ...

These pairs of max expand puzzles cant be furthur expanded without reducing the BxB rating....[some pairs removed]

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all

.2345...945.7.9...7.9.23..4...5.7.........6....7....1537.2.4.....293.....94.7523.
.2345...945.7.9..37.9.23..4...5.7.........6....7....1537.2.4.....293.....94.75...
                                                                                 
.23...7.945...9.327.9..354.2.....35.3.4....97.75.3.2.4....1........9.475...6.....
.23...7.945...9.327.9..354.2.....35.3.4....97.75.3.2.4..7.1........9.4.5..26.....
                                                                                 
.2345...945.7.9..27.9.32...24.3.....3.5.74.2..972.5...5.4....9......3........761.
.2345...945.7.9..27.9.32...24.3.....3.5.74.2..972.5...574....9................61.
                                                                                 
12...6.894.6..91.2.89...64.....7........9.214...3.....6.....4.18.2....96.41.6.82.
12...6.894.6..91.2.89...64...4.7........9.21...83.....6.....4.18.2....96.41.6.82.
                                                                                 
.23...7.945...923.7.9..3.452.4...39..75.9.4.29......57.............3.574...61....
.23...7.945...923.7.9..3.452.4...39..75.9.4.29......57..2..........3.5.4..761....
                                                                                 
....5678...718.2.....2.7.1.2.1568....3.......9...........8.56.156..7182....62..5.
....5678...718.2.6...2.7.152.1568....3.......9...........8.56.1....7182....62..5.
                                                                                 
....5678...718.2.....2.7.1.2.1865....3.......9...........5.86.156..7182....62..5.
....5678...718.2.6...2.7.152.1865....3.......9...........5.86.1....7182....62..5.
                                                                                 
....5678...718.2.....2.7.1.2.1865....3.......9...........6.85.156..7182....52..6.
....5678...718.2.6...2.7.152.1865....3.......9...........6.85.1....7182....52..6.
                                                                                 
.23...78.4.7.8..3668....4.....59....374.2.............73...284.8.6....27.42..86.3
.23...78.4.7.8..3668....4.....59..7.3.4.2...........6.73...284.8.6....27.42..86.3
                                                                                 
........9...18.....8....1.5.38.61...7.483.....6.7.4...37..486...416.73..8.631.4..
........9...18.....8....1.5.38.61.747.483.....6.7.4...37..486...416.73..8.631....
                                                                                 
12..567.9.571.92.6...27................597.12..5...8.3.61.2....5....1...79..65...
12..567.9.571.92.66.927................597.12......8.3.61.2....5....1...79..65...
                                                                                 
....56...45..8.......2......14....983.8...1..59....3.4.45.1.9.383..9..159.1.3.84.
....56..945..8.......2....1.14....983.8...1..59....3.4.45.1.9.383..9..15....3.84.
                                                                                 
...4.6...4.7.892.66..27...424..9.....76.28.4.9.8..4.2.....6..927.......586....173
...4.6...4.7.892.66..27...424..9.....76.28.4.9.8..4.2.....6..927......6.86....173
                                                                                 
............189.3.......45.2..97.....912.8.7.87..13....387.2...71.89...39.2.31..7
.2..........1.9.3..8....45.2..97.....912.8.7.87..13....387.2...71.89...39.2.31..7
                                                                                 
............189.3.......45.2..97.....912.8.7.87..31....387.2...71.89...39.2.13..7
.2..........1.9.3..8....45.2..97.....912.8.7.87..31....387.2...71.89...39.2.13..7
                                                                                 
1.3.567...57.8....68...7..........4.361...8.5........251..3....7.8.65.13.368.1...
1.3.567...5718....68.3.7..........4.361...8.5........251..3....7.8.65....368.1...
                                                                                 
1.3.567...57.8....68...7..........4.316...8.5........253..1....7.8.65.13.618.3...
1.3.567...5718....68.3.7..........4.316...8.5........253..1....7.8.65....618.3...
                                                                                 
1.3.567...57.8....68...7..........4.361...8.5........253..1....7.8.65.13.168.3...
1.3.567...5718....68.3.7..........4.361...8.5........253..1....7.8.65....168.3...
                                                                                 
1..4.678.4..18.2.66...27.14...8.........748.1...61..27..5.4....79..6....8.......2
1..4.678.4..18.2.66...27.14...8..46.....748.1...61..27..5......79.......8.......2
                                                                                 
1..4.678.4..18.2.66...27.14...8.........148.7...67..21..5.6....79..4....8.......2
1..4.678.4..18.2.66...27.14...8..64.....148.7...67..21..5......79.......8.......2
                                                                                 
1..4.678.4..18.2.66...27.14...8.........748.1...61..27..5.6....79..4....8.......2
1..4.678.4..18.2.66...27.14...8..64.....748.1...61..27..5......79.......8.......2
                                                                                 
1...56....5.18...668.3.7..1......9.........2.738....653.587.6..81.6.537..76..3...
1.3.56....5718...668.3.7..1......9.........2.738....653.587.6..81.6.5....76..3...
                                                                                 
1..4.678.4..18.2.66...27.41...8.........718.4...64..27..5.1....79..6....8.......2
1..4.678.4..18.2.66...27.41...8..16.....718.4...64..27..5......79.......8.......2
                                                                                 
1..4.678.4..18.2.66...27.41...8.........418.7...67..24..5.6....79..1....8.......2
1..4.678.4..18.2.66...27.41...8..61.....418.7...67..24..5......79.......8.......2
                                                                                 
1..4.678.4..18.2.66...27.41...8.........718.4...64..27..5.6....79..1....8.......2
1..4.678.4..18.2.66...27.41...8..61.....718.4...64..27..5......79.......8.......2
                                                                                 
1.3....8945.....3..89...4.5.91..........2.......6.1.9.51...8.43.38..49.19.4..385.
1.345..8945.....3..89...4.5.91..........2.......6.1.9.51...8.43.38...9.19.4..385.
                                                                                 
1.3....8945.....3..89...4.5.91..........2.......6.1.9.53...8.41.18..49.39.4..385.
1.345..8945.....3..89...4.5.91..........2.......6.1.9.53...8.41.18...9.39.4..385.
                                                                                 
..3.56.....71.9.36..937.51.2.671....8..96......5..........97..5...63..71...5.139.
..3.56.....71.9.36..937.51.2.671....8..96......5......3...9...5...63..71...5..39.
                                                                                 
.2345....45...9...6.93.2.........8...36...........3.613.4.95.2.56.2.4.9..9263..4.
.2345....45...9...6.93.25.4......8...36...........3.613.4.95.2.56.2.4.9..9263....
                                                                                 
1.345....45..89.3..893......359.81..8.1.34...94.51.3..........2598...41........6.
1.345..8945..89.3..893......359.81....1.34....4.51.3..........2598...41........6.
                                                                                 
....5.78..5.18..36.8.7..1.5....673.13.651..78...3.8.6.57.631.....4......9........
....5678..5.18..36.8.7.31.5....673.1...51..78...3.8.6.57.631.....4......9........
                                                                                 
.2..56...45......6..9.........6.5.73....1762....23...1.3..621.7.7.3.1.52.1.57.36.
.2..56...45.....36..9....1....6.5.73....1762....23...1.3..621.7.7.....52.1.57.36.
                                                                                 
1...56....5.18...668.7.3..1......9..378....65.......2.7.583.6..81.6.537..36..7...
1.3.56....5718...668.7.3..1......9..378....65.......2.7.583.6..81.6.5....36..7...
                                                                                 
...45..8.4.......6......14.2.859.....94.78...7..2.4....7582..9.84.9.7.2.9.2.45.7.
...45..8.4.7.....6..9...14.2.859.....94.78...7..2.4....7582..9.84.....2.9.2.45.7.
                                                                                 
1.3..67.9.57..9.36.....715..16...9..53....67.7.9....133.5..1.......4539....8...6.
1.3..67.9.57..9.3669...715..16...9..53....67.7.9....133.5..1.......453.....8.....
                                                                                 
12..5.78..57...2.66.8.2..15.....3....76.........97..6.7.58.162.81.....5..62...8.1
12..5.78..57.8.2.66.8.2..15.....3....76.........97..6.7.5...62.81.....5..62...8.1
                                                                                 
12..5.78..57...2.66.8.2..15.....3....76.........97..6.7.28.165.81.....2..65...1.8
12..5.78..57.8.2.66.8.2..15.....3....76.........97..6.7.2...65.81.....2..65...1.8
                                                                                 
1.3.56..9.571.9..669.73...5.......43......8..7.......137.6.5....6139....9.5..1...
1.3.56..9.571.9..669.73...5...5...43...9..8..7.......137.6.5....6139.........1...
                                                                                 
12..5.78..57.8.2.66.8....15...9.3......8..672..........6....5.77.25...61.15...82.
12..5.78..57.8.2.66.8....15..69.3......8...72..1.......6....5.77.25...61.15...82.
                                                                                 
1.3..6..945.1.9.36.69...........1..86.....4.3....651723...94...59.61.3...4.5.39..
1.3..6..945.1.9.36.69...........16..6.....4.3....651723...94...59.61.3...4.5.39..
                                                                                 
1..4.678.4..18.2.68...27.1429.........5......6.......7...8.4.72...6..8.1....1264.
1..4.678.4..18.2.68...27.1429...8.....5..1...6.......7...8.4.72...6.........1264.
                                                                                 
.23.5..8945..8.23.8.9...5.428.....4..35...89.9.4..83.23.2..5......7.14........9..
.23.5..8945..8.23.8.9...5.428.....4..35...89.9.4..83.2342..5......7.1............
                                                                                 
1.3.5.....571.9.3.89..37.........6.........2.519...3.7.8537....7.19.8..393..15..8
1.3.5.....571.9.3.89..3715.......6.........2.519...3.7.8.37....7..9.8..393..15..8
                                                                                 
1.3..6..945.1.9.36.96...........1..8....951729.....4.33...64...56.91.3...4.5.36..
1.3..6..945.1.9.36.96...........19......951729.....4.33...64...56.91.3...4.5.36..
                                                                                 
1.3..67.9.57..9.36.....715..19...6..53....97.7.6....133.5..1......8...9.....4536.
1.3..67.9.57..9.3696...715..19...6..53....97.7.6....133.5..1......8.........453..
                                                                                 
12..567.9.571.92.6...27...............5...8.3...567.12.91.2....5....1...76..95...
12..567.9.571.92.69.627...................8.3...567.12.91.2....5....1...76..95...
                                                                                 
1.3.5.78..57.8..6368..7.5.1....6..1.....34......9.....3.5...8.687....13..6.....75
1.3.5.78..57.8..6368..7.5.1....6..1.5...34...7..9.....3.5...8.687....13..6.......
                                                                                 
1..4..78.4.718.2.3.......1424.967...7....4......8.34..3.2..8..1.74..18.281....3..
1..4..78.4.718.2.3.......1424.967...7..5........8.34..3.2..8..1.74..18.281....3..
                                                                                 
12.....89.5....26.6.9...1.52.15..9.8.659...1289.2..65.......8.1.1.84.........7...
12..56.89.5....26.6.9...1.52.1...9.8.659...1289.2..65.......8.1.1.84.........7...
                                                                                 
1.3..678..57....6.68....5...38...1..5.631.87.71.....353718.5.......9.......2.....
1.3..678..57....6368....5.1.38...1..5.6...87.71.....353718.5.......9.......2.....
                                                                                 
.23....8.45..8.2.36.8....4528....4.63.68..52..456...3853..6........17..4........2
.23....8.45..8.2.36.8....4528....4.63.68..52..456...38534.6........17............
                                                                                 
1.3.567...57..9...69..7............4361...95........2.51...3...7.9.65.31.3691....
1.3.567...571.9...69.37............4361...95........2.51...3...7.9.65....3691....
                                                                                 
12..56..9.571.9..66.927...12.........16.27...97.5.1....6....8.......5..2.9.....37
12..56..9.571.9..66.927...12..96.....16.27...97.5.1.........8.......5..2.......37

Unfortunately this would tend to rule out a trivial way to max expand puzzles by "summating" the clues in the 81 character text string....
for example

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all

minimals found                                                                                                       
....567...567..1...8.1.3..........4.3.......2...83.5..51.6.8...6...7.....37.15...#BxB 10 #11.8/1.2/1.2               
....567...567..1...8.1.3.........34.3.......2...8..5..51.6.8...6...7.....37.15...#BxB 10 #11.8/1.2/1.2               
..3.567...567..1...8.1.3..........4.3.......2...83.5..51.6.8...6..37......7.15...#BxB 10 #11.8/1.2/1.2               
..3.567...567..1...8.1.3.........34.........2...83.5..51.6.8...6...7.....37.15...#BxB 10 #11.8/1.2/1.2               
..3.567...567..1...8.1.3.........34.3.......2...8..5..51.6.8...6..37......7.15...#BxB 10 #11.8/1.2/1.2               
1...567...567..1...8...3..........4.3.......2...83.5..51.6.8...6...7.....37.15...#BxB 10 #11.8/1.2/1.2               
1...567...567..1...8...3.........34.3.......2...8..5..51.6.8...6...7.....37.15...#BxB 10 #11.8/1.2/1.2               
1.3.567...567..1...8...3..........4.3.......2...83.5..51.6.8...6..37......7.15...#BxB 10 #11.8/1.2/1.2               
1.3.567...567..1...8...3.........34.........2...83.5..51.6.8...6...7.....37.15...#BxB 10 #11.8/1.2/1.2               
1.3.567...567..1...8...3.........34.3.......2...8..5..51.6.8...6..37......7.15...#BxB 10 #11.8/1.2/1.2               
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     
min expands                                                                                                           
1.3.567...5678.1..78.1.3..........4.3.......2...83.5..51.6.8...6..37.....37.15... BxB 10                             
1.3.567...5678.1..78.1.3.........34.3.......2...83.5..51.6.8...6..37.....37.15... BxB 10 #11.8/11.8/3.4  [max-expand]


[denis_berthier]

Well, you might be right not to understand... because I cant find a real example where a minimal puzzle has 2 different max expands both in BxB6

indeed i have found examples where the max expands diverge from the single max-expand !!

Perhaps you should revise your vocabulary.

I have no idea what you want to prove.
.

[coloin]

Yes maybe I should have revised the vocabulary as the majority of the pairs in the list have completely diverse set of minimal puzzles.
So essentially they are sharing the grid solution ...with no overlap of the minimals...
...
except 3 of the pairs do have at least one minimal puzzle in both camps. On furthur inspection those pairs have differing BxB max-expand level.... again...

Code: Select all

..3.56.....71.9.36..937.51.2.671....8..96......5..........97..5...63..71...5.139.#max expand BxB  8
..3.56.....71.9.36..937.51.2.671....8..96......5......3...9...5...63..71...5..39.#max expand BxB  9
..3.56.....71....6..937.51.2.671....8..96......5..........9...5...63..71......39.#minimal    BxB  9

12..567.9.571.92.6...27...............5...8.3...567.12.91.2....5....1...76..95...#max expand BxB  9
12..567.9.571.92.69.627...................8.3...567.12.91.2....5....1...76..95...#max expand BxB  8
.2...67.9.5.1.92.6...27...................8.3...567.12.91.2....5....1...76..95...#minimal    BxB  9
 
12..567.9.571.92.6...27................597.12..5...8.3.61.2....5....1...79..65...#max expand BxB  9
12..567.9.571.92.66.927................597.12......8.3.61.2....5....1...79..65...#max expand BxB  8
.2...67.9.5.1.92.6...27................597.12......8.3.61.2....5....1...79..65...#minimal    BxB  9

[Paquita]

Some more B14B

98765.......9.8.......43....76...52...8...7.9...5...86.69.8..72.5..2......2.....5;14
98765.......9.........43....96.7.82..2.....5...5.2.....7.....98.687..2.5...5..76.;14
98765.......9.8.......43...5.....97..76.....2...5..6.8.69.8.2.7.5..2......2...5..;14
98765.......9.8.......43...5.....97.2.....6.8.76.....2.69.852.7.5..2......2...5..;14
98765.......9.8.......43...5.8...97..76.....2......6.8.69.852.7.5..2......2...5..;14
98765.......9.........43...5.....98..687....2......6.7.96.752.8.2....5....5.2....;14
98765.......9.........43...5.....98..687....2...5..6.7.96.7.2.8.2....5....5.2....;14
98765.......9.8.......43...5.....97..76....52......6.8.69.852.7.5..2......2...5..;14

I want to post lower rated puzzles later; I planned those earlier but then the majority was already published by coloin. I am working on a new batch.

[denis_berthier]

.
Hi Paquita
Great findings
Did you check they are not in the Mastermins collections?
I see you are not using solution-minlex form (the mastermins are in this form). The gsf command line to do it is:
sudoku-gsf.exe -qFN -f'%#.c' < input-file > output-file
.

[denis_berthier]

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Hi coloin,

In the Mastermins BxB≥7 collections, the three old B7B puzzles are present.
Do you have any means of identifying their descendants in the collections?
.

[Paquita]

Yes I forgot to put the puzzles in minlex. I process puzzles in maxlex, but I use minlex for the SER rates and ususally to present them here.

[coloin]

.
In the Mastermins BxB≥7 collections, the three old B7B puzzles are present.
Do you have any means of identifying their descendants in the collections?
.

No … I think they were added to the list manually …not found de novo.

Incidently … have been searching normal ( non-tridagon) puzzles … and it seems very difficult to get more than BxB 4 !!!

[denis_berthier]

Incidently … have been searching normal ( non-tridagon) puzzles … and it seems very difficult to get more than BxB 4 !!!

If you have a look at Tables 2.8 or 2.9 of [HCCS2], you'll see that the proportion of T&E-depth 2 puzzles with BxB > 4 is about 2.4 %. And this is about collections extremely biased in favour of the hardest (the B1B are absent, the B2B probably grossly under-represented). No wonder the BxB>4 are hard to find.

In the first collections that made their way into Mastermins-1to4, I had identified more than 3 puzzles with no tridagon. That's indeed why I asked you the previous question. But I hadn't checked if they had any degenerate form of the pattern. This is something I should re-check on the whole collection of B7B+. But I have so many things running in parallel that my Mac is begging me to take a rest.
.