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The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

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Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

Postby hendrik_monard » Fri Dec 20, 2024 5:59 pm

denis_berthier wrote:
hendrik_monard wrote:Here is a batch of 196 new B7B+ puzzles representing the same number of new solutions. This brings the total number of different solutions in my B7B+ database to 799.

Hi Hendrik
It's very interesting that you could enlarge the database of solution grids having B7B+ puzzles (all of which, except 3 old B7B ones, have a non-degenerate tridagon until now).
I'm curious about the number of minimal B7B+ puzzles you've got so far from these 799 grids. Could you publish them also?
.

Since last summer, I have focused on finding new solution grids. I adapted my scripts accordingly. We have earlier observed that once you have a B7B+ puzzle, minimal or expanded to a certain degree, in many cases an important number of related minimals can be obtained with the same BxB rating by a process of subsequent expanding and 'minimalisation' rounds.
However, given my limited resources, I prefer to concentrate them on identifying new B7B+ grids. Minimalisation plays a role in this process, as does twinning. I have not the intention to list all possible minimals obtainable with the exp/min/exp/min...process. However, as the 196 new puzzles in my post of yesterday are probably all min_expands, it should not be difficult to derive the minimals of these puzzles. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think that Paquita and coloin posted already lists of minimals of previously posted B7B puzzles.
hendrik_monard
 
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Joined: 19 April 2021
Location: Leuven (Louvain) Belgium
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Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

Postby coloin » Fri Dec 20, 2024 8:20 pm

Many of the twins were already there in some form....which is probably to be expected as your search process is thorough !
In adding clues to your puzzles to expand to max BxB there were BxB 6s found ...
I think I generated many BxB 6 and looked for higher by minimizing and rexpanding with singles.

I took the liberty of adding the BxB7 11.9 to the puzzles section to see what the solvers thought of it !!

The 11.9s are derived from fully expanded 11.6s
BxB10
Code: Select all
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.1..469.39....4.1.64..1.23.4....96...2....149.....3.2#10# #8 #ED=11.9/11.9/2.6 #       
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.4..169.39....4.1.61..4.23.4....96...2....149.....3.2#10# #8 #ED=11.9/11.9/2.6 #       
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.1..496.39....4.1.64..1.23.4....69...2....149.....3.2#10# #8 #ED=11.9/11.9/2.6 #       
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.4..196.39....4.1.61..4.23.4....69...2....149.....3.2#10# #8 #ED=11.9/11.9/2.6 #       
.234.....45...9...6.9.2....235...46.........1.......7.3.2.659..54.29.6...963.4...#10# #8 #ED=11.9/11.9/2.6 #       
.234.....45...9...6.9.2....235...46.........1.......7.3.2.956..54.26.9...963.4...#10# #8 #ED=11.9/11.9/2.6 #       
1.3.56..9.571.9..669.37..........8..531...6.7.......2.31.7......75.9....9.6..1...#10# #8 #ED=11.9/11.9/2.6 #   

adding 2 more clues and the Bxb is still 10 but SE is 11.6
Code: Select all
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.1..469.39....4.1.64..1.23.4....96..32....149.6...3.2#10#ED=11.6/11.6/2.6               
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.1..496.39....4.1.64..1.23.4....69..32....149.6...3.2#10#ED=11.6/11.6/2.6               
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.4..169.39....4.1.61..4.23.4....96..32....149.6...3.2#10#ED=11.6/11.6/2.6               
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.4..196.39....4.1.61..4.23.4....69..32....149.6...3.2#10#ED=11.6/11.6/2.6               
.2345....45...9...6.9.23...235...46.........1.......7.3.2.659..54.29.6...963.4...#10#ED=11.6/11.6/2.6               
.2345....45...9...6.9.23...235...46.........1.......7.3.2.956..54.26.9...963.4...#10#ED=11.6/11.6/2.6               
1.3.56..9.571.9..669.37..........8..531...6.7.......2.31.7.5....75.9....9.6..1...#10#ED=11.6/11.6/2.6               
.2....78.4.7...2.6.68....5428.7..46..746..5.86.58...27....1.......5.3......2...45#10#ED=11.6/11.6/2.6 

BxB 7
Code: Select all
.23.5....45...9...6.92.....2.6...4..........7.....26.134..259...659.43..9.263.5..# 7#3# ED=11.9/11.9/2.6           
...4...89....8.23......31.4..9...3.16.13.....7..........29.481...482..93..8.314.2# 7#3# ED=11.9/11.9/2.6           
...4...89....8.23......31.4..9...3.16.13.....7..........29.481...483..92..8.214.3# 7#3# ED=11.9/11.9/2.6

adding 1 more clue and the BxB is still 7 but 6 more twins are found
Code: Select all
.2345....45...9...6.92.3...2.6...4..........7.....26.134..259...659.43..9.263.5..# 7#9# ED=11.6/11.6/2.6           
...4...89....8923....2.31.4..9...3.16.13.....7..........29.481...482..93..8.314.2# 7#9# ED=11.6/11.6/2.6           
...4...89....8923....2.31.4..9...3.16.13.....7..........29.481...483..92..8.214.3# 7#9# ED=11.6/11.6/2.6           
12..56.8..5718....6.87.2.1.27.56...88.52.1.....6.78......627.51...............9.3# 7#9# ED=11.6/11.6/2.6           
...4.678.....89.36...73...4.6.9.3.47.3..6789..7.84.6.3.95.....8.4..98.....2......# 7#9# ED=11.6/11.6/2.6           
1......89...18..3.........423..78.6..8162..7.7.63.1.2.3..7.2...67.81.....12.63...# 7#9# ED=11.6/11.6/2.6           
.234.6...4.678...378..32..4...............95....6784.23.284......7.63...86.2.73..# 7#9# ED=11.6/11.6/2.6           
...4.678.....89.36...73...4.6.9.7.43.7..6389..3.84.6.7.95.....8.4..98.....2......# 7#9# ED=11.6/11.6/2.6           
1......89...18..3.........42.63.1.7..8167..2.73..28.6.3..7.2...67.81.....12.63...# 7#9# ED=11.6/11.6/2.6 

omly 3 of the 9 twins reduce to a 11.9

Here are the expanded puzzles and 34 new twin puzzles ....
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
..34.6...4.718..36....73....41.683.....7.4...7.631.8....4....28.7....495...84.1.3 #13# 2#  6008 FNBP C34/M2.123.10
..34.6...4.718..36....73....46.183.....7.4...7.136.8....4....28.7....495...84.1.3 #13# 2#  6008 FNBP C34/M2.123.10
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
.2345...945.7.9...7.9.23..4...5.7.........6....7....1537.2.4.....293.....94.7523. #10# 6# 95554 FNBP C33/M2.33.198
1.345..8945.....3..89...4.5.91..........2.......6.1.9.51...8.43.38...9.19.4..385. #10# 6# 95554 FNBP C33/M2.33.198
1.345..8945.....3..89...4.5.91..........2.......6.1.9.53...8.41.18...9.39.4..385. #10# 6# 95554 FNBP C33/M2.33.198
12..56.89.5....26.6.9...1.52.1...9.8.659...1289.2..65.......8.1.1.84.........7... #10# 6# 95539 FNBP C33/M2.33.198
12...6.894.6..91.2.89...64...4.7........9.21...83.....6.....4.18.2....96.41.6.82. #10# 6# 95539 FNBP C33/M2.33.198
12..5.78..57...2.66.8.2..15.....3....76.........97..6.7.28.165.81.....2..65...1.8 #10# 6# 95539 FNBP C33/M2.33.198
1.3.56....5.18....68.2.3...21.56.8..3.8.216...653.81......32.........3.4.3.....7. #10# 7# 95533 FNBP C32/M2.17.385
..345.7.9...7.913...9.13.54.3.1.457.....359.1....7..433.....415.6.......8........ #10# 7# 95530 FNBP C32/M2.17.385
.2345...945..89...8.92.3..4238....4........1.......6..3.45.....58..324...928.4... #10# 7# 95530 FNBP C32/M2.17.385
1.3..67.9.57..9.3669...315....8.7...7...4...........753.....61..61....9797....5.3 #10# 7# 95528 FNBP C32/M2.17.385
.2.45..89.5..8923..9.2.35.4.36............4.37...3........9..58...32.94....5.83.2 #10# 7# 95523 FNBP C32/M2.17.385
1.3..67.9.57..9.3696...315....8.7...7...4...........753.....91..91....6767....5.3 #10# 7# 95523 FNBP C32/M2.17.385
1.34...8945....13..891..5.4..5....4883...495.9.4...3.1....6.........7.......4.893 #10# 7# 95523 FNBP C32/M2.17.385
.2345....45...9...6.93.25.4......8...36...........3.613.4.95.2.56.2.4.9..9263.... #10# 3# 95320 FNBP C33/M2.37.177
.23...7.945...9.327.9..354.2.....35.3.4....97.75.3.2.4..7.1........9.4.5..26..... #10# 3# 95315 FNBP C33/M2.37.177
12..5.78..57...2.66.8.2..15.....3....76.........97..6.7.58.162.81.....5..62...8.1 #10# 3# 95301 FNBP C33/M2.37.177
.2345....45...9...6.93.2.........8...36...........3.613.2.95.4.56.2.4.9..9463..2. #10# 7# 65492 FNBP C32/M2.56.117
.2.45.7.9.5.7.9.32....2354....3..9.5..5.9437....57..24..2...497..1......8........ #10# 7# 65062 FNBP C32/M2.56.117
1.3.56.8..5718..3.68.3.7....18.6....3.587....76.5.1..8571.....3......4..........2 #10# 7# 64754 FNBP C32/M2.56.117
...4.6.89..6.891.2..921.64.....9.8.1....4296.9..8.1.245........6.....218.3....... #10# 8# 64275 FNBP C32/M2.60.109
....5678..5.18..36.8.7.31.52..........5...361..4.........61.5.8...8...73..8.3761. #10# 7# 63890 FNBP C32/M2.56.117
.234.6.8.4.678..2.78..23.6.2.8.7....34.86.....673.2....34..........3.94.........5 #10# 8# 62811 FNBP C32/M2.60.109
1.3.567...5718....68.3.71.....86357.........2.......9.37.5.1...5.863...7.6..78... #10# 5# 31750 FNBP C33/M2.97.67
12..56....57.8...66.8..7...2.57..1...618.2...78..15.2........9.......3.....5218.7 #10# 1# 31019 FNBP C31/M2.75.87
1.3...7.9.571...3696.3..15..35....9161......77.9..156.....2....57691.........4... #10# 5# 30992 FNBP C33/M2.97.67
12.4.6.8.4.6.89....8921..4.2.196...8.68..2...94.1.8...........3612...89.......5.. #10# 5# 30818 FNBP C33/M2.97.67
12..567...571.92..6.927.1..2.56.1....1679.....7..25.........6.3...96.5...6.....4. #10# 4# 30348 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
1.3.56.8..5678..3.78.1.3......561.78......4..........2.156.78..6..81....8.7.35... #10# 5# 30337 FNBP C33/M2.97.67
1.3.56.8..5678..3.78.1.3......561.78......4..........2.176.58..6..81....8.5.37... #10# 5# 30337 FNBP C33/M2.97.67
12.4...894.6...1.2.892..64..18..49.664.....289.....41....64.891....3.........7... #10# 4# 30116 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
1...5678....18..366..3.71.5.1..73.58...5..31....8.16.7.4.........2......8.1...573 #10# 4# 29845 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
1.3..67.9.57..9.3696...751..7....65.6.5....91.91...3.7.1..4.......8.1........51.3 #10# 4# 29706 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
1.3.5.78..57.8..3686....1.5.......7338.5.76.1.7....85....21.........4.......65318 #10# 4#  7988 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
1.3.5.78..57.8..6386..7.1.5....643.....2..6...8671....61....83.7.8...5...35...... #10# 4#  7905 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
..3.567.9..71.9.36..637.15.2.1.....5.6971.....4......1...9.15.7...53........67..3 #10# 4#  7787 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
..3.567.9..71.9.36..937.15.2.1.....5.9671.....4......1...6.15.7....97..3...53.... #10# 4#  7770 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
12.......4571.9.....8....1...5.4139....79..5....3.5...5..97.14.7..5.49.39...13.75 #10# 5#  6712 FNBP C34/M2.106.61
12.......4571.9.....8....1...5.4139....79..5....5.3...5..97.14.7..3.49.59...15.73 #10# 5#  6712 FNBP C34/M2.106.61
12.......4571.9.....8....1...5.4139....97..5....3.5...5..79.14.7..5.49.39...13.75 #10# 5#  6712 FNBP C34/M2.106.61
12.......4571.9.....8....1...5.4139....97..5....5.3...5..79.14.7..3.49.59...15.73 #10# 5#  6712 FNBP C34/M2.106.61
12....78..571..2.66.82...152.1...5...65......78..2.16....6.3...8167.2......84.6.. #10# 5#  6712 FNBP C34/M2.106.61
...45.7.94..7.9.237...3254..6.......3.....95.5.1..........7439....29..75...3..4.2 #10# 5#  4274 FNBP C31/M2.78.84
...45.7.94..7.9.237...3254..6.......3.....95.5.1..........9437....27..95...3..4.2 #10# 5#  4274 FNBP C31/M2.78.84
......7.9.......3..89.....62.1.68..4.649.2..189.14.....186.4...64..2....9.281.... #10# 5#  4272 FNBP C31/M2.78.84
......7.9.......3..89.....62.4.68..1.619.2..489.14.....186.4...64..2....9.281.... #10# 5#  4272 FNBP C31/M2.78.84
.....6......78.....89.3.....94...31.31......58.5...9.45.1.4..93.38.1.45.94....8.1 #10# 5#  4271 FNBP C31/M2.78.84
1.3.56..9.571.9..669.37..........8..531...6.7.......2.31.7.5....75.9....9.6..1... #10# 8#  3106 FNBP C31/M2.26.252
12..56..9.571.9..66.927...527.96.....167.5...9.5..2.........8.7.....7.4.7.1.....2 #10# 2#  2797 FNBP C33/M2.51.128
1..4.678.4..18..368...731.4.9.7.....3.....6.77.5..........41.73...3..8.1...8.746. #10# 2#  2791 FNBP C33/M2.51.128
.2....78.4.7...2.6.68....5428.7..46..746..5.86.58...27....1.......5.3......2...45 #10# 8#  1919 FNBP C32/M2.59.111
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.1..469.39....4.1.64..1.23.4....96..32....149.6...3.2 #10# 8#  1908 FNBP C32/M2.59.111
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.1..496.39....4.1.64..1.23.4....69..32....149.6...3.2 #10# 8#  1908 FNBP C32/M2.59.111
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.4..169.39....4.1.61..4.23.4....96..32....149.6...3.2 #10# 8#  1908 FNBP C32/M2.59.111
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.4..196.39....4.1.61..4.23.4....69..32....149.6...3.2 #10# 8#  1908 FNBP C32/M2.59.111
.2345....45...9...6.9.23...235...46.........1.......7.3.2.659..54.29.6...963.4... #10# 8#  1908 FNBP C32/M2.59.111
.2345....45...9...6.9.23...235...46.........1.......7.3.2.956..54.26.9...963.4... #10# 8#  1908 FNBP C32/M2.59.111
1.3.5.78..57.8..3668....1.5.18....5737....61.5.6.....373186.......9..........4... #10# 5#  1898 FNBP C32/M2.58.113
....5.......1.9236...7.....29....4.13.1..462..64..1.93.4....96..32....149.6...3.2 #10# 5#  1895 FNBP C32/M2.58.113
....5.......1.9236...7.....29....4.13.4..162..61..4.93.4....96..32....149.6...3.2 #10# 5#  1895 FNBP C32/M2.58.113
1..4.678.4..18..366...731.4.9.......7.5......8..3.7......61...8...7.43.1....3864. #10# 5#  1892 FNBP C32/M2.58.113
12..56..9.571.9..66.927...1.......4.......8.7...7.2..55...91....6152....9.26.7... #10# 5#  1892 FNBP C32/M2.58.113
12....78..57...2.66.8....15...7..........356....64.12..1.2..85....8...7178.5..6.2 #10# 2#  1286 FNBP C32/M1.1.54 
1.3.567.9...1.9.366.973.51......719........57....156.3..4......8........97.563... #10# 2#  1064 FNBP C32/M1.1.54 
1.3.56....5718....68.7.3......6.5.41...8.19..........773.51...8....67..3.6.3.8..5 #10# 1#  1048 FNBP C32/M1.1.54 
1.3.56..9.571.9..369.37...1...6..8.7.......2.7.6.....537.96.....65.13...9.15..... #10# 2#  1014 FNBP C33/M2.85.77
....56..9.5.1.926....32..5123.961....7.........4......3..51.69.5...931.2...6.2.35 #10# 2#  1013 FNBP C33/M2.85.77
.23.5..8945..8.23.9.8...5.423....8...49...3.58.5....42.94.2.......6.........974.. #10# 2#  1013 FNBP C32/M2.38.172
.234...8945....23.9.83..5.42.5...39.34....8.2.89....4.5.28........51..2......7... #10# 2#   990 FNBP C32/M2.38.172
...4.67..4..18.2.6....72....96.......48621...5.1...6.....81.4.2..42.7.61..2.6487. #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72 
..3.567.9..71.9.36...73.51..31975....49......8.5....9.3..51.97.....93.6....6.7... #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72 
1...567.9...1.9.369..37.15....7..5.1..19.5.63......97.31....69558.......6.45..... #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72 
1.3.56.8..5718..3.68.7.3.1..15...863.....5..2......95.3.1..8...56..71..8.78...... #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72 
1234.6......18.2.....2.7...23.6..49..14...6.39.63...2139.......6.2...9...41.6.3.2 #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72 
1234.6......18.2.....2.7...23.6..49..41...6.39.63...2139.......6.2...9...14.6.3.2 #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72 
12.......4571.9.....8....1...5.1439....79..5....5.3...5..34.97.7..9.51.39...71.45 #10# 4#   726 FNBP C34/M1.3.43 
12.......4571.9.....8....1...5.1439....79..5....5.3...5..37.94.7..9.51.39...41.75 #10# 4#   726 FNBP C34/M1.3.43 
12.......4571.9.....8....1...5.1439....97..5....5.3...5..34.97.7...91.459..7.51.3 #10# 4#   726 FNBP C34/M1.3.43 
12.......4571.9.....8....1...5.4139....79..5....5.3...5..37.94.7..9.51.39...14.75 #10# 4#   726 FNBP C34/M1.3.43 
..34.6...4.7.89...68.73.....6894....3.4.679..97.3.84.....67389.........5.......2. #10# 1#   577 FNBP C32/M1.2.39 
.2..567.9.5.7.9.23.9.23.56..7....3.6.64......8...........9.36.2...5..97.....27.35 #10# 3#   482 FNBP C32/M1.2.39 
....56...45..8.......2......14....9853....1.49.8...3..3.5.1.94..41.9.8.389..3..15 #10# 3#   411 FNBP C32/M1.2.39 
....5..89...18.........3...2.5.4.96..94.6.8.286..2..45..2...5.454....69.9.6....28 #10# 3#   405 FNBP C32/M1.2.39 
1.3.....945.....36.69..341..4.....535...3.9.493....16....7.....614.95........2... #10# 1#   316 FNBP C30/M1.2.50 
...4.67....7..9.......2.....98....7151....9..7.6...85..71..859.86...51.79.5..1.68 #10# 2#   303 FNBP C32/M1.2.52 
...4.67....7..9.......2.....98....7151....9..7.6...85..75..819.86...15.79.1..5.68 #10# 2#   303 FNBP C32/M1.2.52 
12..567...567.91..7.921.6..2.71.5...69..72....15.6........2.94.........39.2...5.. #10# 2#   300 FNBP C33/M1.2.54 
.234..7.945.7...327.92..54.....1....53.9........5.8..334....92..75...3.49.2.....7 #10# 2#   278 FNBP C33/M1.2.54 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
12..56....57.8...66.8..7...2.57..1...618.2...78..15.2.....218.7......39.......... # 9# 1# 96186 FNBP C30/M2.28.234
...4.6.....7.89.36...37..4...1......37..98...8.5....6....9.76.87..83..949...6437. # 9# 4# 95023 FNBP C32/M2.39.168
...4.6.....7.89.36...37..4...1......37..98...8.5....6....9.76.87...6439.9..83..74 # 9# 4# 95018 FNBP C32/M2.39.168
...4.6.....7.89.63...37...4..1......37..98...9.5.....6...8.769.7...643.88..93..47 # 9# 4# 95018 FNBP C32/M2.39.168
.23.....94.7..9.3669..........8.1..47.4.62.......4....34..7.9.2.72...36.9.6.2..47 # 9# 4# 95011 FNBP C32/M2.39.168
12....7.9.5.1..26.6......5127..9.6.5..6..7.929.5...17.....4.........8...7926.5... # 9# 1# 33629 FNBP C31/M2.73.89
12....78..5.1..2.66......1527...865.8.6...1.7..5.7..28.....4.......9....78256.... # 9# 1# 33438 FNBP C31/M2.73.89
12..56....57.8...66.8..7.........3.........9....5218.7.618.2...5.27..1..78..15.2. # 9# 1# 33112 FNBP C31/M2.74.88
12....7.9.5.1..26.6......5127..9.5.6..6..7.929.5...17.....4.........8...7926.5... # 9# 1# 32878 FNBP C31/M2.74.88
12....78..5.1..2.66......1527...856.8.6...1.7..5.7..28.....4.......9....78256.... # 9# 1# 32691 FNBP C31/M2.74.88
12..56....57.8...66.8..7..........9.......3.....5218.7.618.2...5.27..1..87..15.2. # 9# 1# 32364 FNBP C31/M2.73.89
1.3.567...5718....68.3.71..........4365...8.1.......2.51..3....7.6.18....386.5.1. # 9# 2# 30947 FNBP C33/M2.98.66
.2345...945...9...6.9.32...24.39..6.3.5.64.9..962.5...534...92.......8..........7 # 9# 4# 30709 FNBP C33/M2.98.66
12.4.6.8.4.6.89....8921..4.29..614...6482......19.4...........7...192.64......3.. # 9# 2# 30614 FNBP C33/M2.98.66
12..5.78..57.8.2.66.8....1527.8...61.81...5.2..6...87.....18627.....4......3..... # 9# 9# 30589 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
12.4.6...4.6.891...8921.6..2.1.68....489.2..19..14...........5....89421.........7 # 9# 9# 30471 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
12..567...571.92..6.972.1..2.56.1....7629.....1..75.........6.3...96.5...6.....4. # 9# 9# 30353 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
.23.5.......1..2......27...24.....566.5...9...39...42.36..4.59.5.4.9.6.2.92.6..34 # 9# 9# 30311 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
1.3.56....5718...668.3.7..1......9.........2.738....653.587.6..81.6.5....76..3... # 9# 4# 30147 FNBP C33/M2.98.66
...4.678.....89.36...73...428.........5.....8.4..98....7..6389..6.9.7.43.3.84.6.7 # 9# 9# 29821 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
1.3.5.7.9.57....3669..7.51..697..1.353....97.7.1....6....8..........4...916.37... # 9# 9# 29537 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
...45..8.4.......6......14.2.4.75.9..9582..7.87.9.4.2..48.97...7.254....9..2.8... # 9# 4# 29434 FNBP C33/M2.98.66
...45..8.4.......6......14.2.8.75.9..4592..7.79.8.4.2..74.98...8..2.7...9.254.... # 9# 9# 29180 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
...45..8.4.......6......14.29.8.4.7..4597..2.7.8.25.9..74.98...8..2.7...9.254.... # 9# 9# 29180 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
...45..8.4.......6......14.2..9.8....98.74...7.452.....7589..2.84.2.7.9.9.2.45.7. # 9# 4# 28759 FNBP C33/M2.98.66
...45..8.4.......6......14.2..8.7....78.94...9.452.....9524..7.74.9.8.2.8.2.75.9. # 9# 9# 28731 FNBP C33/M2.94.69
1.3..6....571.9.3.69.3...1...19.3..773..15...9.576.1.3........4......8.....59736. # 9# 4#  8459 FNBP C33/M2.42.156
...4.678.4...8.2.668..72.54....485....876.4.2..42.5..83.........1........45...627 # 9# 4#  8217 FNBP C33/M2.42.156
12..56..9.57..9..66.9.7....2.57.169..6192....9...651.....512.67......3.........4. # 9# 4#  8210 FNBP C33/M2.42.156
..3.567.9..71.9.36..6...15.2.9...5...4....9.7..1.95......51.67.....63.9....9.73.5 # 9# 4#  8182 FNBP C33/M2.42.156
12.4..78.4.71..2.6.682...142.6814......6.5.......9..6..12....4.68..4..277.4...... # 9# 3#  6897 FNBP C34/M2.107.61
..3.567.9..71.9.36...73.15.2.6......3.5671....81....6....9.7.......63.9..3.51.67. # 9# 3#  6895 FNBP C34/M2.107.61
...4.6...4.718.2..6...27...27.6.1..4.64.78..28.124.......714.287.....3.1.......57 # 9# 1#  6804 FNBP C34/M2.105.62
1.3..67.9.57..9.3669...351..6....39.......6.773..6..51...8.1......6951.3.1..4.... # 9# 3#  6495 FNBP C34/M2.107.61
..3.5678...718..36...3.71.524.....5.395....1.7.853........7..6..7.6........81.57. # 9# 2#  3132 FNBP C33/M1.1.70 
1.3.56....5718...668.3.7..5.1....593.3....42....53.6.836.81.....7.6.........7..6. # 9# 2#  3132 FNBP C33/M1.1.70 
...45..8.4.......6......14.2.457.....98.24...7..9.8....7589..2.84.2.7.9.9.2.45.7. # 9# 1#  2363 FNBP C33/M2.107.61
...45..8.4.......6......14.2.8.95.7..7524..9.94.8.7.2..94.28...7..9.4...8.257.... # 9# 2#  2363 FNBP C33/M2.107.61
...45..8.4.......6......14.2.857.....94.28...7..9.4....7524..9.8.2.95.7.94.8.7.2. # 9# 2#  2363 FNBP C33/M2.107.61
12..567.9.57...26.6.9.72.15.....8...5619.7.......3.......7..19.71....5.6.9.....27 # 9# 1#  2284 FNBP C33/M1.1.53 
..345..89....8923...92.34.5.6.........4....287.8..2......92..43.....459.....358.2 # 9# 5#  1987 FNBP C32/M2.20.328
..345..89....8923...92.34.5.6.........4....287.8..2......93..42.....459.....258.3 # 9# 5#  1987 FNBP C32/M2.20.328
1.3.56.8..5718....68.3.7.5....6.381.......9..........23..5.1...57..68....6173.5.. # 9# 5#  1982 FNBP C32/M2.20.328
....567.9.5.1.9.36.9.73.15.26..7......8.......1.....67...5.7.91....9367.....1.3.5 # 9# 5#  1978 FNBP C32/M2.20.328
1.3.56.8..5718....68.3.7.5....6.351.......9..........23..8.1....6173.8..87..65... # 9# 5#  1978 FNBP C32/M2.20.328
1...5678....18..366..3.71.5.1..73.58...5..31....8.16.7.42...............86....573 # 8# 4#  1390 FNBP C33/M1.1.51 
1...5678....18..366..3.71.5.1..38.57...5..81....7.16.336....578..2.......4....... # 9# 6#  1213 FNBP C33/M2.72.91
.234.6...4.678...278..23..623..68....7834.6..6.4..7.........9..847...2.3.......1. # 9# 6#  1208 FNBP C33/M2.72.91
.2345.7..45.7.9...7.9.325..23..94.7..4537....9.72.....392...45........1.........6 # 9# 6#  1202 FNBP C33/M2.72.91
.23....894.....2.38.9...41.2.8..4.3139...28.4.41..892......319....6.....9...71... # 9# 6#  1200 FNBP C33/M2.72.91
12..56..9.567.9..27.921....21.5.....6.5.71.2..976.2.........8..561....97.......4. # 9# 6#  1200 FNBP C33/M2.72.91
.23.5.78.45..8..237.8...5.4234.78......9..........1...3.2..5.4754....3...87...25. # 9# 6#  1199 FNBP C33/M2.72.91
12..56.89.5....2.6......15.....4.......2.859..1.93.....825..61.5.1...9.896.8...25 # 8# 1#  1000 FNBP C33/M1.2.40 
12..56....5718...66.82.7..5.7.....91......3.7...7615.2.8.6.5...76..12.5....87.... # 9# 1#   750 FNBP C34/M2.89.73
...4.6...4.718.2..6...27...27.6.8..4.61.74..28.421...........977.....3.1...741.28 # 9# 4#   734 FNBP C34/M2.90.72
...4.6...4.718.2..6...27...27.6.8..4.64.71..28.124...........977.....3.1...714.28 # 9# 4#   734 FNBP C34/M2.90.72
1.34.6...45.18.....68.3........1.5.7.......2.5.1...3..6.5.418...345.86..81.36.4.. # 9# 5#   303 FNBP C33/M1.2.54 
1.3.56....5718....68.3.71.........9.........2768...5.35.687...183.6.1....71..5... # 9# 2#   302 FNBP C32/M1.2.53 
.2.45..89.5..8923..8.3.24.5.31.....47.........9..4.......9.5..2...82.94.....34.58 # 9# 2#   299 FNBP C32/M1.2.53 
12.4.6.8.4.6.89.2..9821..6.2.48......61.24...98.6.1....19....4.......3.....1...95 # 9# 5#   297 FNBP C33/M1.2.54 
.2.45..89.5..8912..8.1.25.4.4....91.61..9......7.........5.849.....4.2.8...92..51 # 9# 5#   271 FNBP C33/M1.2.54 
.2.45..89.5..8912..8.1.25.4.4....91.61..9......7.........9.845.....4.2.8...52..91 # 9# 5#   271 FNBP C33/M1.2.54 
....56.89...1.92.6....2.51...596.8.1..15.862...6.12.95..2...9.87.8.9.....3....... # 9# 5#   267 FNBP C33/M1.2.54 
                                                                                                                 
1.3...789.......23....3..45.15.97..83.981...778.5.3...5.1....7..78......93..758.. # 8# 1# 95036 FNBP C34/M2.46.710
123...7.9.56..9....89......2..6.739........27.7....6.1...96.27...72.3.16..2.719.3 # 8# 1# 92250 FNBP C34/M2.59.111
..3.5678...718..36...7.35.12.........78.31...9.1....5.3...18.757..6.5......37..6. # 8# 1# 89387 FNBP C33/M2.38.172
.234..7.945.7...327.92..54.2.....4.3......92.93...2.573..5.....5..318.......24375 # 8# 4#  1880 FNBP C36/M1.1.62 
.234..7.945.7...327.92..54.2.....4.3......92.93...2.573..518...5..3.........24375 # 8# 4#  1880 FNBP C36/M1.1.62 
.234..7.945.7...327.92..54.2.....4.3......92.93...2.753..5.....5..318.......24357 # 8# 4#  1880 FNBP C36/M1.1.62 
.234..7.945.7...327.92..54.2.....4.3......92.93...2.753..518...5..3.........24357 # 8# 4#  1880 FNBP C36/M1.1.62 
.23.5.78.45..8..237.8...5.4237.48......9.1............3.4..5.7257....3...82...45. # 8# 4#  1389 FNBP C33/M1.1.51 
1.3....8945.....3..89...4.5.14..8.533.8..49.159...384....6.1.9....7.....9.1..5... # 8# 4#  1389 FNBP C33/M1.1.51 
1.3....8945.....3..89...4.5.18..4.533.4..89.159...384....6.1.9....7.....9.1..5... # 8# 4#  1389 FNBP C33/M1.1.51 
1.3..67.9.57..9.3669....15........737.....96.93.7..5.13....5...5.924.......6.1.95 # 8# 3#  1383 FNBP C34/M1.1.41 
1.3.5.7.9.57....3669..7.15..657.1.93..1...57....5..6.1..629........379.5...8..... # 8# 3#  1383 FNBP C34/M1.1.41 
1.34.6.......8........235...14...9..63.94.1.59.5.1....3.1..469.56....4.1.49..1.53 # 8# 3#  1383 FNBP C34/M1.1.41 
...45........89.....92.7.4.2...48.955..92.4.79..7.582..95872...71.......86.....7. # 8# 2#   483 FNBP C33/M1.1.52 
...45........89.....92.7.4.2..7.589.5..92.4.79...48.25.95872...71.......86.....7. # 8# 2#   483 FNBP C33/M1.1.52 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
1..45.7.94..7.913.....13.54....719.....94..73..73.5.1.3.2......5.8...3.....53.... # 7# 3# 97055 FNBP C32/M2.11.178
1.3.5....45.1.9....983...1..4591.3..3.98.4...81..354........97.....9.82.98....... # 7# 3# 96986 FNBP C32/M2.11.178
....5678.4.....23...........1.86......4.158..58.7.4...7.15.8...86..41..7.4567...8 # 7# 3# 96975 FNBP C32/M2.11.178
.23...7.945...923.7.9..3.452.4...39..75.9.4.29......57..2..........3.5.4..761.... # 7# 3# 96806 FNBP C33/M2.19.345
.23.5..8945..8.23.8.9...5.428.....4..35...89.9.4..83.23.2..5......7.14........9.. # 7# 3# 96730 FNBP C33/M2.19.345
12..5.78..57.8.2.66.8....15..69.3......8...72..1.......6....5.77.25...61.15...82. # 7# 3# 96641 FNBP C33/M2.19.345
1...56....5.18...668.3.7.....1.38.7.3.567....87.5.13...........73.....51......42. # 7# 1# 95751 FNBP C30/M2.24.273
1...56....5.18...668.7.3.....5.38.7.3.167....87.5.13...........73.....15......42. # 7# 1# 95751 FNBP C30/M2.23.285
1.3.56....57.8...668...7....167.3...53.8...1.7.8.153.................92.....31.78 # 7# 1# 95734 FNBP C30/M2.24.273
1..4.678.4..18..638...371.4...64..17...8.34.6....718..3.5...6....2.........36.... # 7# 7# 95159 FNBP C32/M2.50.524
.2.45.7.9.5.7.9.32....2354....5..9.4..5.9437....37..25..2...497.........8.1...... # 7# 7# 95158 FNBP C32/M2.50.524
1.3.56.8..5718..3.68.3.7....18.7....3.586....76.5.1..8571.....3......4.2......... # 7# 7# 95156 FNBP C32/M2.50.524
1.3...78..57...2.3.8.....51...6......3.9.2.........32.37...15.85.2..713..18..5.72 # 7# 7# 95153 FNBP C32/M2.50.524
1.3.567...5718.3..68.3.7.....1.75......8.1...8.563...7........2..8...6.4...76.53. # 7# 2# 95024 FNBP C32/M2.39.168
.23.....94.7..9.3669..........8.1..77.4.62.......4....34..7.9.2.72...36.9.6.2..74 # 7# 2# 95011 FNBP C32/M2.39.168
12..56....57.8...66.8..7...2.5.7.1...618.2...78..15.2.......39.............5218.7 # 7# 1# 54506 FNBP C31/M2.52.126
.234.6...4.678...378..32..4...............95....6784.23.284......7.63...86.2.73.. # 7# 9#  1399 FNBP C33/M1.1.51 
.2345....45...9...6.92.3...2.6...4..........7.....26.134..259...659.43..9.263.5.. # 7# 9#  1390 FNBP C33/M1.1.51 
12..56.8..5718....6.87.2.1.27.56...88.52.1.....6.78......627.51...............9.3 # 7# 9#  1390 FNBP C33/M1.1.51 
...4.678.....89.36...73...4.6.9.3.47.3..6789..7.84.6.3.95.....8.4..98.....2...... # 7# 9#  1390 FNBP C33/M1.1.51 
...4.678.....89.36...73...4.6.9.7.43.7..6389..3.84.6.7.95.....8.4..98.....2...... # 7# 9#  1390 FNBP C33/M1.1.51 
1......89...18..3.........423..78.6..8162..7.7.63.1.2.3..7.2...67.81.....12.63... # 7# 9#  1388 FNBP C33/M1.1.51 
1......89...18..3.........42.63.1.7..8167..2.73..28.6.3..7.2...67.81.....12.63... # 7# 9#  1388 FNBP C33/M1.1.51 
...4...89....8923....2.31.4..9...3.16.13.....7..........29.481...483..92..8.214.3 # 7# 9#  1382 FNBP C33/M1.1.51 
...4...89....8923....2.31.4..9...3.16.13.....7..........29.481...482..93..8.314.2 # 7# 9#  1382 FNBP C33/M1.1.51 
1.....7.9...18923.......4.12.189...3.952.3..883..15..23...2....51.93.82....5..3.. # 7# 2#   649 FNBP C35/M1.1.63 
1.....7.9...18923.......4.12.589...3.912.3..883..15..23...2....51.93.82....5..3.. # 7# 2#   649 FNBP C35/M1.1.63 
1.....7.9...18923.......4.123..15..8.918.3..28.529...33...2....51.93.82....5..3.. # 7# 2#   649 FNBP C35/M1.1.63 
1.....7.9...18923.......4.123..15..8.958.3..28.129...33...2....51.93.82....5..3.. # 7# 2#   649 FNBP C35/M1.1.63 
                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                 
NEW TWINS                                                                                                         
.2345...945.7.9..37.9.23..4...5.7.........6....7....1537.2.4.....293.....94.75... #10# 8# 66740 FNBP C32/M2.60.109
12.....89.5....26.6.9...1.52.15..9.8.659...1289.2..65.......8.1.1.84.........7... #10# 8# 62038 FNBP C32/M2.60.109
12..5.78..57.8.2.66.8.2..15.....3....76.........97..6.7.2...65.81.....2..65...1.8 #10# 8# 60741 FNBP C32/M2.60.109
1.3....8945.....3..89...4.5.91..........2.......6.1.9.53...8.41.18..49.39.4..385. #10# 8# 61356 FNBP C32/M2.60.109
1.3....8945.....3..89...4.5.91..........2.......6.1.9.51...8.43.38..49.19.4..385. #10# 8# 61356 FNBP C32/M2.60.109
12...6.894.6..91.2.89...64.....7........9.214...3.....6.....4.18.2....96.41.6.82. #10# 8# 61478 FNBP C32/M2.60.109
.23...7.945...9.327.9..354.2.....35.3.4....97.75.3.2.4....1........9.475...6..... #10# 7# 63936 FNBP C32/M2.56.117
.2345....45...9...6.93.2.........8...36...........3.613.4.95.2.56.2.4.9..9263..4. #10# 7# 65492 FNBP C32/M2.56.117
12..5.78..57.8.2.66.8.2..15.....3....76.........97..6.7.5...62.81.....5..62...8.1 #10# 7# 60849 FNBP C32/M2.56.117
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.1..496.39....4.1.64..1.23.4....69...2....149.6...3.2 #10# 8#  3118 FNBP C31/M2.26.252
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.4..196.39....4.1.61..4.23.4....69...2....149.6...3.2 #10# 8#  3118 FNBP C31/M2.26.252
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.1..469.39....4.1.64..1.23.4....96...2....149.6...3.2 #10# 8#  3118 FNBP C31/M2.26.252
....5.......1.9236...7.....2.4..169.39....4.1.61..4.23.4....96...2....149.6...3.2 #10# 8#  3118 FNBP C31/M2.26.252
.2....78.4.....2.6.68....5428.7..46..746..5.86.58...27....1.......5.3......2...45 #10# 8#  3118 FNBP C31/M2.26.252
.2345....45...9...6.9.2....235...46.........1.......7.3.2.956..54.26.9...963.4... #10# 8#  3106 FNBP C31/M2.26.252
.2345....45...9...6.9.2....235...46.........1.......7.3.2.659..54.29.6...963.4... #10# 8#  3106 FNBP C31/M2.26.252
1.3.56..9.571.9..669.37..........8..531...6.7.......2.31.7.5....75.9....9.6.31... #10# 8#  1904 FNBP C32/M2.59.111
...4.6...4.718.2..6...27...2.481.....61.72..487.6.4..2.......977.....3.1...741.28 #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72
...4.67..4..18.2.6....27....96.......48261...5.1...6.....81.4.2..46.2.71..2.7486. #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72
...4.6...4.718.2..6...27...2.481.....61.74..287.6.2..4.......977.....3.1...741.28 #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72
...4.67..4..18.2.6....27....96.......48261...5.1...6.....81.4.2..26.4.71..4.7286. #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72
...4.6...4.718.2..6...72...2.481.....61.27..487.6.4..2.......977.....3.1...741.28 #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72
1234.6......18.2.....2.7...2.63...9139.6..42..14...6.36.2...9...41.6.3.293....... #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72
...4.6...4.718.2..6...27...2.184.....64.71..287.6.2..4.......977.....3.1...714.28 #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72
1234.6......18.2.....2.7...2.6...9..39........14.6.3.2.41...6.36.23...9193.6..42. #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72
...4.67..4..18.2.6....72....96.......48261...5.1...6.....81.4.2..26.4.71..4.2786. #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72
..3.567.9..71.9.36...73.51.2.6......3.5...671.81.6..........9.7....9..63.3.67.15. #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72
..3.567.9..71.9.36..937.51.2.6.......4....6..9756.3.......379.....9.1....9.56.3.1 #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72
12..5.78..57.8.2.66.8.2..1521........85.....27.6..21.8...97....87.265........4..7 #10#18#   734 FNBP C34/M2.91.72
....567.9.5.1.9.63.9.37.51.27...3....34.......69...375.......51.....193.9...356.7 # 9# 4#   734 FNBP C34/M2.90.72
.23....8.45..8..366.8.........9.4...3.4825.......7..4.5.6..23.8.32..8.5484...362. # 9# 4#   734 FNBP C34/M2.90.72
.23.5..8945..8.23.8.9...5.428.....4..35...89.9.4..83.2342..5......7.1............ # 7# 7# 95161 FNBP C32/M2.50.524
12..5.78..57.8.2.66.8....15...9.3......8..672..........6....5.77.25...61.15...82. # 7# 7# 95134 FNBP C32/M2.50.524
.23...7.945...923.7.9..3.452.4...39..75.9.4.29......57.............3.574...61.... # 7# 7# 95156 FNBP C32/M2.50.524


And here is a link to all the minimal puzzles BXB-Mastermmin4
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Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

Postby denis_berthier » Sat Dec 21, 2024 4:43 am

hendrik_monard wrote:Since last summer, I have focused on finding new solution grids. I adapted my scripts accordingly. We have earlier observed that once you have a B7B+ puzzle, minimal or expanded to a certain degree, in many cases an important number of related minimals can be obtained with the same BxB rating by a process of subsequent expanding and 'minimalisation' rounds.

Until now, the search for hard puzzles has explored only a very small part of the space of solution grids. Finding new solution grids having B7B+ puzzles is a very interesting (and new) goal.
.
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Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

Postby denis_berthier » Sat Dec 21, 2024 4:44 am

coloin wrote:And here is a link to all the minimal puzzles BXB-Mastermmin4


It requires an authorisation.
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Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

Postby hendrik_monard » Sat Dec 21, 2024 10:20 am

coloin wrote:Many of the twins were already there in some form....which is probably to be expected as your search process is thorough !
In adding clues to your puzzles to expand to max BxB there were BxB 6s found ...
I think I generated many BxB 6 and looked for higher by minimizing and rexpanding with singles.

I took the liberty of adding the BxB7 11.9 to the puzzles section to see what the solvers thought of it !!

Very interesting analysis indeed, also about the effect of advanced expansions on SER and BxB.
It is noticeable that we now also find more SER 11.9s. BTW, in my previous post I counted 11 11.9s, but two of them were counted twice. I changed the number in my post of yesterday.
In your results there are also two new solutions! I will add them to my B7B+ solutions database:
Code: Select all
123456789457189263698372514271563498534798126869214375346927851785641932912835647   9   241220   ....567.9.5.1.9.63.9.37.51.27...3....34.......69...375.......51.....193.9...356.7   col   
123456789457189236698237415281964573374825961965371842516742398732698154849513627   9   241220   .23....8.45..8..366.8.........9.4...3.4825.......7..4.5.6..23.8.32..8.5484...362.   col   

I also found two cases of different BxB rating within the BXB7+ domain for the same solution.
Code: Select all
123456789457189236698327145214673958786592314935841627342765891571938462869214573
1...5678....18..366..3.71.5.1..73.58...5..31....8.16.7.42...............86....573   9   coloin   241220
1...5678....18..366..3.71.5.1..7..58...5..31......16.7.42...............86....573   8   monh   241219

123456789457189236698723154239645871746218593815937462382594617571362948964871325
12..56.89.5....2.6......15.....4.......2.859..1.93.....825..61.5.1...9.896.8...25   9   coloin   241220
12..56.89.5....2.6......15.....4.......2.859..1.93.....82...61.5.1...9.896.8...25   8   monh  2412219

This seems to happen rather exceptionally. While setting up the B7B+ solutions database I only noticed a few such cases.
This must be the result from 'higher' expansions.
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Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

Postby coloin » Sat Dec 21, 2024 2:46 pm

hendrik_monard wrote:BTW, in my previous post I counted 11 11.9s, but two of them were counted twice. I changed the number in my post of yesterday.

Yes you found 9 of them but actually the twins of the BxB7 added two more [8+3] you had the 11.6 version of the 2 other puzzles !
hendrik_monard wrote:In your results there are also two new solutions! I will add them to my B7B+ solutions database:

I would have expected that all new twin puzzles would be new solution grids ...?
hendrik_monard wrote:I also found two cases of different BxB rating within the BXB7+ domain for the same solution.

I think all these puzzles are BxB 8 ... so possibly a typo [ Usually SHC is consistent]

I have altered the approvals for all the files..
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Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

Postby coloin » Sat Dec 21, 2024 2:53 pm

BXB-Mastermins
BXB-Mastermins2
BXB-Mastermins3
BXB-Mastermins4
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Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

Postby denis_berthier » Sat Dec 21, 2024 3:38 pm

coloin wrote:
hendrik_monard wrote:I also found two cases of different BxB rating within the BXB7+ domain for the same solution.

I think all these puzzles are BxB 8 ... so possibly a typo [ Usually SHC is consistent]

I think what Hendrik means is, for some solution grid, there are different non-isomorphic B7B+ puzzles with different BxB ratings - which is to be expected.
What I find more surprising is, this seems to be rare. Hendrik, can you say more about this ?
.
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