The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **tarek** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:53 pm

This is my first attempt at this.
Images by JSudoku which you can use for electronic viewing/assistance.
Puzzle 01 will require advanced fish so PMs will be useful

Puzzle 01

Solution:

Hidden Text: Show

Line Format:

Hidden Text: Show

Puzzle 01 was modified from the original very difficult puzzle which is essentially a machine excercise.
Puzzle 01 Origin:

Hidden Text: Show

Enjoy

[Edit: updated a broken image link]

by **dyitto** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:09 pm

Do you have a line format of the solution?

by **dyitto** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:20 pm

I already did the visual check.

My solver solves your puzzle. And I know for very sure I never programmed any fish.
Only pointing pairs, hidden/naked subsets and group-interactions (locked subsets).

by **tarek** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:44 pm

dyitto wrote:I already did the visual check.
My solver solves your puzzle. And I know for very sure I never programmed any fish.
Only pointing pairs, hidden/naked subsets and group-interactions (locked subsets).

Thanks dyitto. My solver may have missed some group interactions. That means that the puzzle should be solvable without pencilmarks

dyitto wrote:Do you have a line format of the solution?

I guess you don't need it now that you've solved it.

by **tarek** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:18 pm

Puzzle02:

This puzzle has the 4 windoku satellite grids (no X diagonals)
The central grid has Disjoint groups (DG) & X diagonals.
The puzzle should be solvable within SSTS
Images by JSudoku which can be used for electronic assistance (Tricky to tweak with this type of puzzle)

Solution:

Hidden Text: Show

Line format:

Hidden Text: Show

[EDIT: Puzzle image updated]

by **tarek** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:37 pm

Puzzle03: ?Impossible

This puzzle is not human-solvable. It may prove even difficult for machines to solve.
I stopped JSudoku after 10 minutes ... So unless you've got a good machine don't bother.
I will keep it as a challenge for programmers here to provide the solution.
Images by JSudoku which can be used for electronic assistance (Well, there isn't a single placement after all available techniques)

Line format:

Hidden Text: Show

Solution:

Hidden Text: Show

by **puzzlephil** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:59 pm

This is really a very hard puzzle. It took my "machine" quite a while to solve it. But I can testify that it has one unique solution (see below and attached).
My respect to you, Tarek!! How do you actually produce these puzzles? I would love to discuss this with you.
best regards,
puzzlephil

Code: Select all: ...697321548......... ...158496732......... ...432785196......... ...761932485726914358 ...385647921394758216 ...249518673158326974 ...826179354862173549 ...573864219537849162 ...914253867419265837 693852417936285437691 481937625481973681425 752461938572641592783 236798541623798154... 817546392748156329... 549123786195324786... 975284163376245918... 168379254584913672... 324615879912687435... .........259431867... .........437862591... .........861579243...

by **tarek** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:48 pm

One and a half years is not a bad time ... Congrats phil

Unfortunately, work & time constraints prevent sudoku dedication now. I keep making promises (more like false hopes) about finding time to continue forum mail/posts/threads especially what I started. So I'll stop making promises for now and continue hoping for free time sometime in the near future.

by **enxio27** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:25 am

tarek wrote:Unfortunately, work & time constraints prevent sudoku dedication now. I keep making promises (more like false hopes) about finding time to continue forum mail/posts/threads especially what I started. So I'll stop making promises for now and continue hoping for free time sometime in the near future.

Please don't disappear forever!

I'm still working on your Bank Holiday 1108 Sumo Special, although I think I'm stuck for now. I'll probably have to throw it into SudokuSolver and get a hint. I really have no idea what techniques it requires, and whether some of those are out of my league for now.

by **tarek** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:25 pm

enxio27 wrote:
tarek wrote:Unfortunately, work & time constraints prevent sudoku dedication now. I keep making promises (more like false hopes) about finding time to continue forum mail/posts/threads especially what I started. So I'll stop making promises for now and continue hoping for free time sometime in the near future.

Please don't disappear forever!

That will not happen

. It is just that I'm not in a position to make promises because I can't predict when I'm free at the moment. I modified my simple human-like solver to accommodate variants in the past (Sudoku^2 & Setdoku). Adopting it for Sumo special shouldn't be technically difficult, just time consuming

. It is on the to-do list :idea:

by **tarek** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:15 pm

tarek wrote:Puzzle03: ?Impossible

I've just attempted to put this puzzle through JSudoku on a faster more powerful machine after updating the broken link photo. the disappointing result was that there was no solution found. Although Puzzlephil has kindly verified the single solution, I would probably need another verfication to be absolutely happy

tarek

by **tarek** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:55 am

It is strange that JSudoku didn’t find ANY solution when we actually do have at least one solution. I’m casting some doubts on JSudoku’s result now!!!

Tarek

by **blue** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:30 am

tarek wrote:
tarek wrote:Puzzle03: ?Impossible

I've just attempted to put this puzzle through JSudoku on a faster more powerful machine after updating the broken link photo. the disappointing result was that there was no solution found. Although Puzzlephil has kindly verified the single solution, I would probably need another verfication to be absolutely happy

I can't help with JSudoku, but I can confirm that the pictured puzzle has just the one solution.

I get several (individually) redundant clues, too ... shown below.

Code: Select all: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . 8 . . . . . . . . 3*. . . . . 2 . . . . 3*. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . 8*. . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . 5*. . . . . . . . . . . . . 9*1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . 3*. . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . 7*. . . . . 8*. . . . . . . . 3 . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

One (180 degree symmetric) clue pair can be removed, leaving just one redundant clue.

Code: Select all: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . 3*. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Edited once: after realizing that I was missing one of the original clues.

by **tarek** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:54 pm

blue wrote:I can't help with JSudoku, but I can confirm that the pictured puzzle has just the one solution.

Thanks blue for the confirmation. I can't find any traces of my attempts to minimize the puzzle, so thanks for the further minimization.

tarek

by **Hajime** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:51 am

Here is a Windmill WX with a single fish.
So in order to solve it (298 cells to solve), you need
- box-line reduction and/or pointing pairs
- naked/hidden pairs/triples
- X-Wing (only one small fish swimming around)

Picture of Windmill WX (5 x Windoku & Diagonals)

: WindMill_WX_Fish.PNG (40.27 KiB) Viewed 2922 times

Picture with pencil marks:

Hidden Text: Show

Line format

Hidden Text: Show

A possible journey to the solution

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all: Step Solu.Nr Grid Row Col Value Why 1 1 2 2 4 8 row 1 2 4 4 1 5 column 1 3 5 7 1 1 row 1 4 5 9 6 1 box 2 5 5 5 9 1 row 3 6 5 3 7 1 diagonal 4 7 3 7 5 1 box 4 8 5 2 4 1 row 5 9 1 4 8 1 column 5 10 3 9 7 8 column 6 11 3 8 4 8 box 7 12 3 7 1 8 row box <-> columns/rows | 1b7c1 on candidate 1 | 2c1b1 on candidate 1 | 3b2c4 on candidate 1 | 3b2c5 on candidate 6 | 3r6b4 on candidate 1 | D nw-se 3b1 on candidate 1 | 3c8b9 on candidate 2 | 3c1b1 on candidate 4 | 3r3b3 on candidate 9 | 3c7b6 on candidate 9 | 4b3r3 on candidate 1 | 4b3c8 on candidate 1 | 4b6r6 on candidate 1 | 4b4c2 on candidate 2 | 4b4c3 on candidate 3 | 4b8c5 on candidate 4 | 4r1b1 on candidate 1 | D ne-sw 4b7 on candidate 1 | D nw-se 4b1 on candidate 4 | 4r9b9 on candidate 9 | 5b2c5 on candidate 2 | 5b9c9 on candidate 8 8 13 1 5 4 1 Wbox7 8 14 2 9 1 9 box 8 15 3 6 2 1 row 8 16 3 9 1 1 column 8 17 4 2 4 1 row 8 18 4 1 1 1 column 8 19 4 8 2 1 box 9 20 1 9 6 1 column 9 21 3 5 6 1 column 9 22 3 1 4 1 Wbox7 9 23 4 5 3 1 row 9 24 4 7 9 1 row 9 25 4 8 3 6 row 10 26 1 2 5 1 row 10 27 1 8 1 1 row 10 28 1 3 2 1 column 10 29 2 7 2 1 column 10 30 2 5 3 1 box 10 31 4 7 2 9 box 11 32 4 1 3 9 Wbox7 box <-> columns/rows | 1b8c4 on candidate 4 | 2b4r6 on candidate 9 | 3b4r5 on candidate 9 | 4b7c1 on candidate 7 | 4b7c1 on candidate 8 | 4b3r2 on candidate 9 | D nw-se 4b5 on candidate 9 | D ne-sw 4b3 on candidate 9 12 33 3 5 2 9 row 12 34 4 9 7 9 column 13 35 3 7 3 9 box 13 36 4 6 6 9 row 13 37 4 8 5 9 Wbox6 14 38 4 3 4 9 row box <-> columns/rows | 1b8c4 on candidate 9 | 3b4c3 on candidate 4 | 3b8c5 on candidate 9 | 3c6b2 on candidate 9 | 4b2c5 on candidate 6 | 4c4b5 on candidate 2 | 4r6b4 on candidate 4 | D ne-sw 4b3 on candidate 6 | 5b1c2 on candidate 9 | 5r1b3 on candidate 9 15 39 3 4 4 9 row 16 40 1 7 9 9 row 16 41 1 8 4 9 column 16 42 3 2 4 4 Wbox1 16 43 3 9 5 9 Wbox9 17 44 2 6 2 9 row 17 45 3 8 9 9 row 17 46 3 5 3 4 Wbox7 18 47 4 3 3 4 row 18 48 4 6 2 4 column 19 49 4 3 5 8 row 19 50 4 6 3 7 Wbox3 20 51 4 2 3 8 single 20 52 4 4 2 2 single 20 53 4 4 3 3 single 20 54 4 3 7 6 row 20 55 4 6 4 8 row 20 56 4 2 2 7 column 20 57 4 5 2 8 box 20 58 4 2 5 6 Wbox5 21 59 3 4 2 8 box 21 60 4 1 2 6 single 21 61 4 4 4 6 single 21 62 4 9 1 4 single 21 63 4 5 4 2 column 21 64 4 1 5 7 column 21 65 4 8 6 8 column 21 66 4 7 8 7 Wbox4 21 67 4 3 9 7 Wbox5 21 68 4 9 9 8 Wbox9 22 69 1 7 6 8 box 22 70 3 7 2 4 single 22 71 3 8 1 7 box 22 72 4 4 6 7 single 22 73 4 7 1 8 single 22 74 4 8 1 7 single 22 75 4 9 5 2 single 22 76 4 7 5 4 row 22 77 4 9 8 6 row 22 78 4 5 6 4 column 22 79 4 5 9 6 column 22 80 4 8 8 2 diagonal 23 81 3 9 3 2 box box <-> columns/rows | 1b9c9 on candidate 3 | 1b8c5 on candidate 6 | 1b8c5 on candidate 7 | 2b7r7 on candidate 4 | 3b4c1 on candidate 2 | 3b2c6 on candidate 3 | 3b7c2 on candidate 3 | 3b6r4 on candidate 4 | 3b7c2 on candidate 5 | 3r6b5 on candidate 3 | D ne-sw 3b3 on candidate 4 | 5r3b3 on candidate 2 | 5r1b3 on candidate 4 | 5r2b3 on candidate 6 | 5r2b3 on candidate 7 24 82 2 2 2 4 column 24 83 2 7 3 4 Wbox3 25 84 1 7 4 4 column 25 85 2 6 1 4 column 26 86 3 6 5 4 row 26 87 3 9 8 4 column 26 88 3 8 6 4 Wbox4 27 89 3 6 4 3 row 27 90 3 8 5 3 column 28 91 3 7 9 5 single 28 92 3 8 2 5 single 28 93 3 8 8 2 row 28 94 3 9 2 3 column 28 95 3 7 4 2 Wbox3 28 96 3 6 9 2 Wbox6 28 97 4 5 5 3 row 29 98 1 9 5 2 box 29 99 3 4 3 5 single 29 100 3 5 1 2 row 29 101 3 2 3 3 column 29 102 3 4 6 2 diagonal 29 103 3 7 7 3 diagonal 29 104 3 6 6 5 diagonal 29 105 3 1 7 2 Wbox8 29 106 4 6 5 5 single 29 107 4 7 7 5 single 29 108 4 7 4 3 row 29 109 4 2 6 5 column 29 110 4 8 9 3 column 29 111 5 3 8 2 row 30 112 1 9 4 5 single 30 113 1 9 7 7 single 30 114 1 9 9 3 column 30 115 1 8 8 2 box 30 116 2 9 2 8 single 30 117 3 4 1 3 single 30 118 3 4 5 7 single 30 119 3 1 8 3 row 30 120 3 4 7 6 row 30 121 3 9 4 5 row 30 122 3 5 4 6 box 30 123 3 5 5 8 box 30 124 3 2 2 6 Wbox1 30 125 3 2 7 5 Wbox2 30 126 3 5 9 3 Wbox9 30 127 3 1 5 5 Wbox9 30 128 4 2 1 3 single 30 129 4 3 6 3 single 30 130 4 8 4 5 single 30 131 4 1 6 2 row 30 132 4 3 1 2 row 30 133 5 3 9 3 row 31 134 1 6 7 9 single 31 135 1 7 5 7 single 31 136 1 8 9 8 single 31 137 1 9 8 6 single 31 138 1 6 6 6 Wbox4 31 139 2 5 2 7 single 31 140 2 8 1 7 single 31 141 2 9 6 5 row 31 142 2 1 2 6 column 31 143 2 6 3 8 column 31 144 2 8 2 5 box 31 145 3 9 9 7 single 31 146 3 1 9 6 row 31 147 3 9 6 6 row 31 148 3 7 8 6 column 31 149 5 5 5 5 row 32 150 1 6 8 7 single 32 151 1 5 1 6 column 32 152 1 5 7 8 box 32 153 1 7 3 6 diagonal 32 154 2 5 4 9 single 32 155 2 1 3 5 row 32 156 2 2 7 5 column 32 157 3 7 6 7 single 32 158 5 2 8 6 single 32 159 5 4 4 7 single 32 160 5 2 7 5 row 32 161 5 2 9 7 row 32 162 5 5 7 7 column 32 163 5 7 7 9 diagonal 33 164 1 2 4 6 row 33 165 1 1 2 6 column 33 166 1 2 9 7 column 33 167 1 1 1 7 Wbox9 33 168 2 4 4 5 diagonal 33 169 5 6 8 5 column 34 170 1 4 4 8 single 34 171 1 3 4 7 column 34 172 1 4 6 7 box 34 173 2 3 5 5 row 34 174 2 6 9 5 row 34 175 2 3 4 1 column 34 176 5 4 8 8 column 35 177 1 8 2 5 single 35 178 1 6 2 8 row 35 179 1 8 3 7 row 35 180 1 5 2 7 column 36 181 1 2 2 4 single 36 182 1 3 3 5 diagonal 37 183 1 5 5 9 single 37 184 1 6 1 5 column 37 185 1 2 3 9 column 37 186 1 3 6 4 column 37 187 1 9 1 4 diagonal 38 188 1 2 8 8 single 38 189 1 5 9 5 single 38 190 1 9 3 8 single 38 191 1 1 6 9 row 38 192 1 3 8 9 row 38 193 1 5 3 4 row 38 194 1 1 5 8 Wbox9 39 195 1 3 5 3 single 39 196 1 5 6 2 single 39 197 1 1 7 5 row 39 198 1 3 1 8 row 39 199 1 4 5 5 row 39 200 1 2 6 5 column 40 201 1 1 4 2 single 40 202 1 2 1 2 single 40 203 1 3 7 2 single 40 204 1 6 4 3 single 40 205 1 6 5 4 single 40 206 1 1 3 3 row 40 207 1 2 7 3 row 40 208 1 4 9 4 row 40 209 1 6 9 2 row 40 210 1 7 1 3 column 40 211 1 7 2 2 Wbox3 41 212 1 4 2 3 single 41 213 1 4 3 2 single box <-> columns/rows | 5b6r6 on candidate 2 | 5b4c1 on candidate 3 | 5b5r5 on candidate 6 | 5b5r6 on candidate 8 | 5b5r6 on candidate 9 | 5r4b4 on candidate 2 | D ne-sw 5b7 on candidate 2 | D ne-sw 5b7 on candidate 7 | D ne-sw 5b7 on candidate 8 42 214 5 5 3 8 single 42 215 5 9 7 2 row 42 216 5 5 4 2 Wbox7 43 217 5 5 2 4 single 43 218 5 5 6 6 row 43 219 5 6 9 2 row 43 220 5 9 2 6 row 43 221 5 8 2 8 column 44 222 5 6 2 7 single 44 223 5 7 2 5 single 44 224 5 8 1 4 single 44 225 5 8 6 2 row 44 226 5 8 5 7 row 44 227 5 4 2 2 column 44 228 5 7 3 2 box 44 229 5 9 1 7 box 45 230 5 4 3 5 single 45 231 5 8 3 3 single 45 232 5 8 9 5 row 45 233 5 8 4 9 row 45 234 5 6 5 9 column 45 235 5 4 6 3 diagonal 46 236 5 4 7 4 single 46 237 5 6 4 4 single 46 238 5 8 7 6 single 46 239 5 6 6 8 row 46 240 5 7 5 3 row 46 241 5 7 4 6 column 46 242 5 6 7 3 column 46 243 5 9 8 3 box 46 244 5 1 9 9 diagonal 47 245 5 1 8 4 single 47 246 5 4 9 6 single 47 247 5 5 1 3 single 47 248 5 5 8 9 single 47 249 5 6 1 6 single 47 250 5 7 6 4 single 47 251 5 7 9 8 single 47 252 5 9 5 8 single 47 253 5 9 9 4 single 47 254 5 4 1 9 row x-wing or fishes | X-Wing at 2c67r58 on candidate 4 48 255 2 9 5 4 Wbox9 49 256 2 8 7 4 row 49 257 2 5 6 4 column 50 258 2 5 5 8 row 50 259 2 8 8 9 row 50 260 2 1 7 9 column 50 261 2 1 8 8 Wbox8 51 262 2 3 3 7 single 51 263 2 3 6 9 row 51 264 2 4 9 9 row 51 265 2 2 3 9 column 51 266 2 2 5 6 column 51 267 2 6 7 1 column 51 268 2 9 8 1 Wbox8 52 269 2 9 9 6 single 52 270 2 4 8 4 row 52 271 2 8 5 1 row 52 272 2 4 6 1 column 52 273 2 3 9 4 column 52 274 2 1 1 1 diagonal 53 275 2 2 1 3 single 53 276 2 4 5 7 single 53 277 2 2 9 1 row 53 278 2 8 6 6 column 53 279 2 6 4 6 box 53 280 2 6 8 7 box 54 281 2 2 8 2 single 54 282 2 3 7 3 single 54 283 2 8 4 2 single 54 284 2 1 9 7 row 54 285 2 2 6 7 row 54 286 2 3 8 6 row 54 287 2 7 4 7 row 54 288 2 8 9 8 row 54 289 2 7 6 8 column 54 290 2 5 7 6 column 55 291 2 5 8 3 single 55 292 2 7 7 2 single 55 293 2 5 9 2 row 55 294 2 7 9 3 row 55 295 2 6 6 3 diagonal 55 296 2 1 6 2 Wbox8 56 297 2 1 5 3 single 56 298 2 6 5 2 single

The final solution

Hidden Text: Show

Creating Fish-puzzles is difficult. Fish is rare.
It took me about 15 attempts before this first fish-puzzle came up, using SiSeSuSo .
(see http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/sisesuso-simple-serial-sudoku-solver-t35062.html)

The New Sudoku Players' Forum

Tarek's Windoku Kazaguruma / Windmill X

Tarek's Windoku Kazaguruma / Windmill X

Re: Tarek's Windoku Kazaguruma / Windmill X

Re: Tarek's Windoku Kazaguruma / Windmill X

Re: Tarek's Windoku Kazaguruma / Windmill X

Puzzle02: 4 satellite windokus & a central DGX

Puzzle03: Impossible WindmillX

Re: Tarek's Windoku Kazaguruma / Windmill X

Re: Tarek's Windoku Kazaguruma / Windmill X

Re: Tarek's Windoku Kazaguruma / Windmill X

Re: Tarek's Windoku Kazaguruma / Windmill X

Re: Puzzle03: Impossible WindmillX

Re: Tarek's Windoku Kazaguruma / Windmill X

Re: Puzzle03: Impossible WindmillX

Re: Puzzle03: Impossible WindmillX

Puzzle 01 with Fish