The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0136 idle LIGHTNING 2011-03-18+14:46:51-0000 -- with no further entries the game will close at 2011-03-18+17:00:00-0000 :::

[g.r.emlin]

::: game 0136 closed LIGHTNING (idle for 1d00h) -- preliminary results :::

[joel64]

::: status :::

[joel64]

::: more :::

Code: Select all

000001230400020000500600000700502400080000090001809006000007001000030009067400000 ED=6.9/6.9/2.6
000001230300020000100400000500206100040000060007804005000007009000050006085900000 ED=7.4/7.4/7.1
000001230300040000100500000600207800010000070009104006000008009000060007056900000 ED=7.9/7.9/7.2
000001230400020000100500000200607800010000070009408002000003007000060009056100000 ED=9.2/9.2/8.9


[ronk]

::: comment :::

::: more :::

Code: Select all

000001230400020000500600000700502400080000090001809006000007001000030009067400000 ED=6.9/6.9/2.6
000001230300020000100400000500206100040000060007804005000007009000050006085900000 ED=7.4/7.4/7.1
000001230300040000100500000600207800010000070009104006000008009000060007056900000 ED=7.9/7.9/7.2
000001230400020000100500000200607800010000070009408002000003007000060009056100000 ED=9.2/9.2/8.9


joel64, that was an excellent game on your part. This I don't understand: With all or most of the above puzzles in reserve, why did you run up the score with your last submission?

[joel64]

::: comment :::

joel64, that was an excellent game on your part. This I don't understand: With all or most of the above puzzles in reserve, why did you run up the score with your last submission?

bonjour,

Thank you, ronk, for your appreciation.

Why I did not play these puzzles ?

yesterday, I had only ED=9.2/9.2/8.9 in reserve (during 2 days). but it was self trump

This morning, following a treatment with like model a puzzle of papy999, the 3 others came.
I had much chance, but I could not benefit from it for run up my score

salutations

[papy999]

::: comment :::

I had this one as a self trump

Code: Select all

. . . . . 1 2 3 .
4 . . . 3 . . . .
5 . . 8 . . . . .
6 . . 3 . 7 8 . .
. 7 . . . . . 1 .
. . 9 5 . 6 . . 2
. . . . . 2 . . 1
. . . . 6 . . . 9
. 4 6 1 . . . . .   ED=7.9/7.9/7.2

I don't know if it is the same (isomorph) joel64 found ...

[joel64]

::: comment :::

I had this one as a self trump

Code: Select all

. . . . . 1 2 3 .
4 . . . 3 . . . .
5 . . 8 . . . . .
6 . . 3 . 7 8 . .
. 7 . . . . . 1 .
. . 9 5 . 6 . . 2
. . . . . 2 . . 1
. . . . 6 . . . 9
. 4 6 1 . . . . .   ED=7.9/7.9/7.2

I don't know if it is the same (isomorph) joel64 found ...

bonjour,

This puzzle is different from that which I found (without being able to propose it)

With my opinion, the rule " self trump" is very severe.

In the same way, the fact that SE finds different notations for isomorphous puzzles, should be allowed.

The imperfections of SE should make party of the game.

Joel

[papy999]

::: comment :::
Joel,

I found also this one

Code: Select all

. . . . . 1 2 5 .
5 . . . 2 . . . .
1 . . 8 . . . . .
6 . . 2 . 7 1 . .
. 8 . . . . . 7 .
. . 3 4 . 8 . . 6
. . . . . 3 . . 9
. . . . 6 . . . 7
. 4 6 9 . . . . .   ED=7.4/7.4/7.1

but it seems very similar to yours...

I completely agree with you about isomorphs that have a different rating !

In the same way, the fact that SE finds different notations for isomorphous puzzles, should be allowed.

Regards

[ronk]

With my opinion, the rule " self trump" is very severe.

In the same way, the fact that SE finds different notations for isomorphous puzzles, should be allowed.

The imperfections of SE should make party of the game.

If it was put to a vote, I would vote for leaving those two rules as they are, i.e., ...

• Submission of a self-trump is not only not permitted, but is penalized
• Each submission must be a non-isomorph of all prior submissions.

[papy999]

::: comment :::

It would be nice to be able to submit a puzzle that is isomorph of an already played one but with a higher rating

This happens in the previous game to Joel : he found the highest rating but his post was rejected because it was an isomorph !

[daj95376]

As an observer:

I think the "self trump" rule adds a level of skill to the game. Timing the placement of a puzzle with an imperfect score is critical because you run the risk of others finding a better scoring puzzle or posting an equivalently rated puzzle before yours. The only other option is to find a perfect ER/EP/ED score first ... and there's no skill in knowing when to post it.

When it comes to isomorphic puzzles with different ratings, then I say post by ratings and isomorphism be damned. As long as any changes to SE's ratings are banned, then living with the anomalies must be a fact of life!!!

[gsf]

the rules strike a balance between strategy and brute force
a smart player with a light quiver can wait for the "right" moment to play and fare pretty well
I've been trying to quantify the wait time for a while now without much success

the rules clearly state that an entry must be not isomorphic to any previous puzzle in the current game
that some automorphisms of an entry may have a different SE is interesting but irrelevant

besides, its an SE bug that rates some automorphisms differently
surely the ones rated harder aren't

[daj95376]

besides, its an SE bug that rates some automorphisms differently
surely the ones rated harder aren't

Then, by your own logic, a puzzle with a lower rating should preempt/eject any currently posted automorphism with a higher rating. Of course, after the higher rated puzzle is ejected, you may then have a problem if another puzzle already exists at the lower rating. This could introduce a whole new level of strategy into the game!!!

Bottom Line: It's not fair that the higher rated puzzle gets credit for a rating that it doesn't deserve!!!

[champagne]

The more I dig in SE code, the more I see areas where endless discussions could be open.

As it is, the game works pretty well. Changing any rule could have strong unforeseen negative effects.

On my side, for the time being, the only change I could propose would be to increase the rarity bonus due to the fact that we have more and more puzzles in the data base (and I am not using the rarity in my strategy).

Regarding the different ratings for isomorphic puzzles, this is something any player can filter if he wants to do so. He has just to enter in its base of seen puzzles the puzzles played by others.

There is still a window for duplication when the game is in an hectic phase, but it's a small one. I'll likely do it in the futture.

champagne