Patterns Game Questions/Discussion

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Patterns Game Questions/Discussion

Postby GouinJP » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:48 pm

m_b_metcalf wrote:
GouinJP wrote:::: status :::

Dear GouinJP,
Please note that the current game is closed. A new one will start on Sunday evening (European time). Please note also that the point of the Game, like many card games, is to play a higher rating than that of the opponents.


OK it's fun, I will be there.

How many puzzles can I submit in one batch?

Could you explain? blue submited an ED=2.3/2.0/2.0 just before it closed. That's not very good!

I noted that SudokuExplainer is very slow. What can I do?

Thanks for stimulation.
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Re: Patterns Game Questions/Discussion

Postby champagne » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:45 am

Hi GouinJP,

First of all, many of your questions could find an answer in that thread where you could have posted your questions
patterns-game-strategies



GouinJP wrote:How many puzzles can I submit in one batch?


If you are thinking of "serate batches", there is no limit, but as you say, it is a very slow process, so the main points is what to do to rate less puzzles.




GouinJP wrote:Could you explain? blue submited an ED=2.3/2.0/2.0 just before it closed. That's not very good!



Each serate ER is a separate entry.
The trumping rule applies entry per entry.
It's very common in a game that players submit in priority high diamonds and / or rare ratings.
During the last part of the game, you find usually entries with no diamond generated and this can be on the low ED's



GouinJP wrote:I noted that SudokuExplainer is very slow. What can I do?


At the start, just accept it, but if you want to do more, you must have tools to select interesting puzzles and submit to serate only puzzles having a chance to be of interest at the currenr point of the game.

You should find many clues if you follow the link
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Re: Patterns Game Questions/Discussion

Postby blue » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:13 pm

Hi GouinJP,

GouinJP wrote:Could you explain? blue submited an ED=2.3/2.0/2.0 just before it closed. That's not very good!

It was Pat, actually, and it was good for the "last-entry" bonus.

Regards,
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Re: Patterns Game Questions/Discussion

Postby m_b_metcalf » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:54 am

Pat wrote:
GouinJP wrote:
1...2...4..3....9..5....7......518..4..28.......3....6..71..5...9.....3.6....2..8

10.5/10.5/10.4


puzzles for the game must be minimal

*
when you do get a minimal puzzle,
it should be posted on 9 lines
and inside [code]

Pat, This puzzle, is minimal, it's simply the pattern of the previous game.
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Re: Patterns Game Questions/Discussion

Postby GouinJP » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:24 am

Hello

I found 2 000 000 valid puzzles for game 215 but I can't rate them all with SudokuExplainer.

What is the good stategy?
Before final rating with SudokuExplainer, I must choose the good candidates rating them with gsf's sudoku or with skfr?

Thank you

Jean-Pierre Sangin
.
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Re: Patterns Game Questions/Discussion

Postby m_b_metcalf » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:52 am

GouinJP wrote:I found 2 000 000 valid puzzles for game 215 but I can't rate them all with SudokuExplainer.

What is the good stategy?
Before final rating with SudokuExplainer, I must choose the good candidates rating them with gsf's sudoku or with skfr?

Jean-Pierre, You can probably use either (I use neither), but I think most of us try to reduce these huge numbers by supressing low ratings at birth. This requires, I think, a certain amount of coding of your own programs (or even a lot of coding).

Regards,

Mike
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Re: Patterns Game Questions/Discussion

Postby champagne » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:03 pm

GouinJP wrote:Hello

I found 2 000 000 valid puzzles for game 215 but I can't rate them all with SudokuExplainer.

What is the good stategy?
Before final rating with SudokuExplainer, I must choose the good candidates rating them with gsf's sudoku or with skfr?

Thank you

Jean-Pierre Sangin
.


skfr has been designed to be close enough to serate to help in the pattern game, it is about 100 times faster than serate, but the deviations are sufficient to say that the final validation by serate is compulsory.

The deviation in the rating is most often +-0.1, but can be wider;

I have no personal experience of gsf's sudoku.

In the last games that I searched, I used my last program, skmpp, faster than skfr and performing better in the way I played , but I generate many more puzzle in a game (say 50 to 100 million puzzles for a pattern as in the game 215)

One difficulty is in the fact that at the beginning players are looking for a fast show of diamonds. Later on, you have to play in the holes. Then, you need more or less a pre rating of all puzzles.

My suggestion would be (as did dobrichev) to pre-rate all puzzles unless you really want to win the game, and then to filter the puzzles to rate in serate.

Increasing the chance to win the game push to use a more complex strategy.
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Suggestion

Postby GouinJP » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:52 pm

deleted
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::: comment :::

Postby GouinJP » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:05 pm

deleted
Last edited by GouinJP on Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ::: comment :::

Postby GouinJP » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:09 pm

GouinJP wrote:::: comment :::

Hi everybody

Instead of compete in this patterns game, it is also possible to participate together and share the game in different searching spaces.
For instance, in the game 0169, only 24 puzzles were posted when gsf wan with a beautiful ED=11.8/11.8/3.4.
001000200090008050600000007000003040000020000080905000700000006050400030002000100

If I canonise this puzzle, it gives :
001000200030004050600000007000008090000020000040305000700000006050900080002000100

Here are all the canonised posts:
001000200030001040500000006000006010000030000070802000600000005080400070002000600
001000200030001040500000006000007010000030000080602000700000005090400030002000700
001000200030001040500000006000007010000080000090602000700000005080400030002000700
001000200030004050200000006000003070000010000020405000800000009040200030005000400
001000200030001040500000006000002010000060000040507000700000008090400030002000700
001000200030004050200000006000003040000060000070102000800000002040500070006000100
001000200030004050600000007000008040000060000050102000100000006040300080002000100
001000200030004050200000001000006030000010000050708000800000009070300040002000100
001000200030004050600000007000001030000020000080905000200000006040300080006000100
001000200030004050600000007000001030000020000050809000200000006040500080007000100
001000200030004050600000007000001030000060000040809000700000006080500040002000100
001000200030004050600000007000005040000010000080309000700000006040500080002000100
001000200030004050600000007000008030000010000040903000700000006080500040002000100
001000200030004050600000007000005030000020000050403000700000001080300040002000600
001000200030004050600000007000003040000020000080509000200000006050400030007000100
001000200030004050600000007000005040000070000080903000200000001050400080007000600
001000200030004050600000007000003040000070000040809000200000001050300090007000600
001000200030004050600000007000003040000020000040805000200000001050300090007000600
001000200030004050600000007000008040000020000040905000200000001050800030007000600
001000200030004050600000007000003040000020000080905000200000006040500030007000100
001000200030004050600000007000008030000020000040509000700000006050300080002000100
001000200030004050600000007000003080000010000040908000700000001050800040002000600
001000200030004050600000007000003040000010000080905000700000006090800030002000100
001000200030004050600000007000008090000020000040305000700000006050900080002000100

You can see that nobody submits a puzzle begining with:
001000200030002000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
or
001000200020003000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Maybe sharing our work, we could revisit old neglected patterns game and beat the famous ED=11.9/11.9/11.3.
Why not enter the Guinness Book of Records together?

Jean-Pierre Sangin
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Re: ::: comment :::

Postby m_b_metcalf » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:34 pm

::: comment :::

GouinJP wrote:Instead of compete in this patterns game, it is also possible to participate together and share the game in different searching spaces.
For instance, in the game 0169, only 24 puzzles were posted when gsf wan with a beautiful ED=11.8/11.8/3.4.
001000200090008050600000007000003040000020000080905000700000006050400030002000100


Jean-Pierre,
You've picked a bad example with Game 169. It has already been extensively discussed in the Strategies thread, starting on 'Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:52 pm'. Note, too, that the pattern is an isomorph of a pattern published on 'Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:11 pm' here and also in the General (I think) Forum at that time (I don't have the time to search further just now), where it was also discussed. The puzzle has a high degree of symmetry of givens.

Regards,

Mike Metcalf
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::: comment :::

Postby GouinJP » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:07 pm

::: comment :::

Here are the two canonised patterns for the hardest sudoku and the best post for game 0169.
If I remember, champage said he can guess which ED can be hoped with a given pattern.
Could we focus on a pattern close to the best pattern ?


Code: Select all
+-------------------------+
|        S U D O K U      |
+---------+-------+-------+
|   1 2 3   4 5 6   7 8 9 |
+-+-------+-------+-------+
|1|       |       |   1 1 |
|2|       |     1 |     1 |
|3|     1 |   1   | 1     |
+-+-------+-------+-------+
|4|     1 |   1   |     1 |
|5|   1   |     1 |       |
|6| 1     | 1     |       |
+-+-------+-------+-------+
|7|     1 |   1   |   1   |
|8|   1   |       | 1     |
|9| 1     | 1     |       |
+-+-------+-------+-------+ ED=11.9/11.9/11.3

+-------------------------+
|        S U D O K U      |
+---------+-------+-------+
|   1 2 3   4 5 6   7 8 9 |
+-+-------+-------+-------+
|1|       |       |     1 |
|2|       |     1 |   1   |
|3|     1 |       | 1 1   |
+-+-------+-------+-------+
|4|     1 |     1 |   1   |
|5|   1   |   1   |       |
|6| 1     | 1     |       |
+-+-------+-------+-------+
|7|     1 |     1 | 1     |
|8|   1   |   1   |       |
|9| 1     | 1     |       |
+-+-------+-------+-------+ ED=11.8/11.8/3.4
Last edited by GouinJP on Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ::: comment :::

Postby m_b_metcalf » Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:54 pm

m_b_metcalf wrote: ... and also in the General (I think) Forum at that time (I don't have the time to search further just now), where it was also discussed.

It was on Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:15 pm starting here. This pattern has been done to death.

Regards,

Mike Metcalf
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::: comment :::

Postby GouinJP » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:06 pm

Hi

Look these canonised patterns.
000001001000010010001000101001000010010010001100100100001001010010010100100100000 the famous ED=11.9/11.9/11.3.
000001001001001010010010100001001010010010100100100001001001010010010100100100001

The second one is the closest pattern found in all 220 games in this forum. It seems to me we could search hard sudokus with pattern nearest than the hardest one.
But I prefer to play than to suggest patterns. ;)

GouinJP
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