The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[JPF]

Here's a new challenge.

[Edit] Here are the new rules as of 2007/12/01.
Below, I left the initial rules in order for the readers to be able to understand what happened in the first patterns games.

A dealer gives a valid and minimal puzzle solved by singles only ("all singles")
This puzzle must have at least 19 clues, but less than 30.
Its pattern must be not isomorphic to a pattern already used in a previous game of this thread.

Each player can post a new valid puzzle provided that his proposed puzzle :

• has the same pattern
• is minimal
• is non isomorphic to any previous posted puzzle
• has a different ER rating from any previous posted puzzle.
  

ER is the rating given by Sudoku Explainer 1.2 (SE)

Note : To use Sudoku Explainer for a file of puzzles, see this ravel's post.
In batch mode, SE gives 2 distinct ratings :

• 6.699999999999999 ; Hardest technique : Forcing X-Chain
• 6.7 ; Hardest technique : Bidirectional Y-Cycle

In this game, these 2 ratings are considered different.

Each player can post 1 puzzle maximum for 1 day, except if somebody posts an other satisfactory puzzle.
The game ends if no puzzle has been posted for 3 days.

Points : when a puzzle is posted the player gets points = # posted puzzle.
i.e : the dealer gets 1 pt, next puzzle 2 pts, etc...

At the end of the game :

• a 20 pts penalty is given to the initial dealer
• a bonus for the last puzzle equal to the # puzzle
• the same bonus is given for the highest ER
• a 50 pts penalty for every post with an incorrect puzzle or for every edited (i.e. marked "edited") post

The winner is the player with the highest number of points and gets the right to be the new dealer, but a player cannot be a dealer for more than 5 consecutive games.
He loses his right if he doesn't propose any new puzzle within 1 day.


Initial rules
A dealer gives a valid and minimal puzzle solved by singles only ("all singles")
This puzzle must have at least 19 clues, but less than 30.

Each player can post a new valid puzzle provided that his proposed puzzle :

• has the same pattern
• is not an "all singles"
• has a higher ER rating than the preceding posted one.
  

ER is the rating given by Sudoku Explainer 1.2

If his puzzle stays unsurpassed for 1 week, he wins and gets the right to be the new dealer.
He loses his right if he doesn't propose any new puzzle within 1 week.


So let's start with this one :

Code: Select all

 . . . | 6 . . | . . .
 5 7 4 | 1 . . | . 3 .
 2 . . | . . . | 1 8 5
-------+-------+-------
 . . . | . . . | . 4 .
 . . . | . 5 . | . . .
 . 1 . | . . . | . . .
-------+-------+-------
 6 3 9 | . . . | . . 2
 . 8 . | . . 9 | 5 7 6
 . . . | . . 4 | . . .



23 clues, all singles, 12 steps

Any comments are welcome.

JPF

[JPF]

This one should be easier :

Code: Select all

 4 . . . . . . . 5
 . 9 . 7 . . . 2 .
 . . 2 . . . 4 . .
 . 8 . 1 . 4 . . .
 . . . . 6 . . . .
 . . . 2 . 5 . 1 .
 . . 1 . . . 2 . .
 . 7 . . . 8 . 6 .
 5 . . . . . . . 8



21 clues, all singles, 16 steps.

JPF

[m_b_metcalf]

This one should be easier :

Code: Select all

 4 . . . . . . . 5
 . 9 . 7 . . . 2 .
 . . 2 . . . 4 . .
 . 8 . 1 . 4 . . .
 . . . . 6 . . . .
 . . . 2 . 5 . 1 .
 . . 1 . . . 2 . .
 . 7 . . . 8 . 6 .
 5 . . . . . . . 8



21 clues, all singles, 16 steps.

So, is this what you mean?

Code: Select all

 4 . . . . . . . 5
 . 7 . 3 . . . 6 .
 . . 2 . . . 4 . .
 . 8 . 1 . 4 . . .
 . . . . 7 . . . .
 . . . 2 . 5 . 1 .
 . . 1 . . . 2 . .
 . 3 . . . 8 . 5 .
 5 . . . . . . . 8         SE 7.1


Regards,

Mike Metcalf

[JPF]

So, is this what you mean? ...

Yes, something like this :

Code: Select all

 1 . . . . . . . 2
 . 3 . 4 . . . 5 .
 . . 2 . . . 6 . .
 . 7 . 3 . 6 . . .
 . . . . 5 . . . .
 . . . 8 . 2 . 4 .
 . . 6 . . . 7 . .
 . 4 . . . 7 . 9 .
 9 . . . . . . . 8        SE 9.0



JPF

[m_b_metcalf]

So, is this what you mean? ...

Yes, something like this :

Code: Select all

 1 . . . . . . . 2
 . 3 . 4 . . . 5 .
 . . 2 . . . 6 . .
 . 7 . 3 . 6 . . .
 . . . . 5 . . . .
 . . . 8 . 2 . 4 .
 . . 6 . . . 7 . .
 . 4 . . . 7 . 9 .
 9 . . . . . . . 8        SE 9.0



JPF

In other words, a gigantic pearl (15 times SE 9.6 to start) going to SE 9.8 would qualify :

Code: Select all

 7 . . . . . . . 3
 . 9 . 4 . . . 8 .
 . . 1 . . . 5 . .
 . 8 . 9 . 5 . . .
 . . . . 3 . . . . Pearl 15 x 9.6, then up to 9.8
 . . . 2 . 8 . 6 .
 . . 5 . . . 1 . .
 . 6 . . . 9 . 4 .
 3 . . . . . . . 7


Regards,

Mike Metcalf

[JPF]

In other words, a gigantic pearl (15 times SE 9.6 to start) going to SE 9.8 would qualify :

Yes, I think so

Brilliant !
A real nightmare for the solvers.

Should be posted to the "hardest thread".
Congratulations.

JPF

[daj95376]

In other words, a gigantic pearl (15 times SE 9.6 to start) going to SE 9.8 would qualify :

Code: Select all

 7 . . . . . . . 3
 . 9 . 4 . . . 8 .
 . . 1 . . . 5 . .
 . 8 . 9 . 5 . . .
 . . . . 3 . . . . Pearl 15 x 9.6, then up to 9.8
 . . . 2 . 8 . 6 .
 . . 5 . . . 1 . .
 . 6 . . . 9 . 4 .
 3 . . . . . . . 7


In the middle of trying to crack this monster, my solver ran across a very rare 4444 Jellyfish. Whew!!!

[JPF]

What about this one ?

Code: Select all

 7 . . . . . . . 3
 . 2 . 4 . . . 8 .
 . . 1 . . . 5 . .
 . 8 . 9 . 5 . . .
 . . . . 3 . . . .
 . . . 2 . 8 . 6 .
 . . 5 . . . 1 . .
 . 4 . . . 9 . 2 .
 3 . . . . . . . 7      SE=10.7



JPF

[m_b_metcalf]

What about this one ?

JPF

Incroyable Changing three values makes such a difference. Well done! Now the rest of have a week to get yet higher .

Regards,

Mike Metcalf

[JPF]

Incroyable Changing three values makes such a difference. Well done!

Thanks.
Actually, you did better

My initial puzzle:

Code: Select all

SE=1.5
400000005090700020002000400080104000000060000000205010001000200070008060500000008

Your first puzzle :

Code: Select all

SE=7.1
400000005070300060002000400080104000000070000000205010001000200030008050500000008

equivalent to, after the relabelling (3->7 , 7->6 , 6->3) :

Code: Select all

400000005060700030002000400080104000000060000000205010001000200070008050500000008

which is my initial puzzle with 3 modified cells.
and SE went from 1.5 to 7.1 (+5.6)...

JPF

[m_b_metcalf]

Thanks.
Actually, you did better

Well, that's a very generous coment -- let's say it's a joint effort. The pattern you devised seems to be very fruitful. The following is an intermediate result that is invalid as an entry under your rules, but I think it's interesting and I need help :

Code: Select all

 5 . . . . . . . 9
 . 2 . 1 . . . 7 .
 . . 8 . . . 3 . .
 . 4 . 7 . 2 . . .  SE at least 11.4
 . . . . 5 . . . .
 . . . . . 6 . 1 .
 . . 3 . . . 8 . .
 . 6 . . . 4 . 2 .
 9 . . . . . . . 5


As you can see, r6c4 (which is 8) is missing from your pattern. Sudoku Explainer seems to give up (on my machine) at 11.4, so can I appeal to someone to get the final SE rating for me? It would be nice to get the rating with the redundant cell added back too -- I gave up at 10.4.

Many thanks,

Mike Metcalf

[JPF]

The following is an intermediate result that is invalid as an entry under your rules, but I think it's interesting and I need help :

Code: Select all

 5 . . . . . . . 9
 . 2 . 1 . . . 7 .
 . . 8 . . . 3 . .
 . 4 . 7 . 2 . . .  SE at least 11.4
 . . . . 5 . . . .
 . . . . . 6 . 1 .
 . . 3 . . . 8 . .
 . 6 . . . 4 . 2 .
 9 . . . . . . . 5


Stupéfiant !, bravo...
[Edit : My computer crashed after the 8th step (SE=11.4). Java gave up]

As you can see, r6c4 (which is 8) is missing from your pattern. Sudoku Explainer seems to give up (on my machine) at 11.4, so can I appeal to someone to get the final SE rating for me? It would be nice to get the rating with the redundant cell added back too -- I gave up at 10.4.

SE=10.5 with r6c4=8
So, 6 days to beat 10.7

JPF

[m_b_metcalf]

SE=10.5 with r6c4=8
So, 6 days to beat 10.7

JPF

Groan .

Mike

[Eioru]

6.......2
.5.9.1.4.
..4...3..
.9.8.6.1.
....3....
.2.7.4...
..7...9..
.3.1.5.2.
8.......7

I find this, but without high rating. (SE=7.2)
But it has many analysis results by SE.

[JPF]

Code: Select all

 6 . . . . . . . 2
 . 5 . 9 . 1 . 4 .
 . . 4 . . . 3 . .
 . 9 . 8 . 6 . 1 .
 . . . . 3 . . . .
 . 2 . 7 . 4 . . .
 . . 7 . . . 9 . .
 . 3 . 1 . 5 . 2 .
 8 . . . . . . . 7



I find this, but without high rating. (SE=7.2)

Thanks .
But this puzzle doesn't match the proposed pattern.

btw, r3c7=8 & r9c1=1 give SE=8.9, etc...

JPF