The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **gsf** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:48 am

m_b_metcalf wrote:If JPF has new rules planned, maybe they should be introduced as a new thread (this one's getting very long).

I second that
along with some mechanically parsable tagging for each of the post types:
start pattern, entry, progress update, call to end game, extra puzzles by last poster, final tally

by **JPF** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:18 pm

m_b_metcalf wrote:
TTHsieh wrote:

Do we take a rest for serval days to think about new rules ?
Or start a new game under current rules ?

Let's wait until at least Thursday before stating again.

If JPF has new rules planned, maybe they should be introduced as a new thread (this one's getting very long).

I agree on a new thread.
While we are finalizing new rules, here is the new and the last game for this thread :

Code: Select all: . . . | 6 . . | . . . 5 7 4 | 1 . . | . 3 . 2 . . | . . . | 1 8 5 -------+-------+------- . . . | . . . | . 4 . . . . | . 5 . | . . . . 1 . | . . . | . . . -------+-------+------- 6 3 9 | . . . | . . 2 . 8 . | . . 9 | 5 7 6 . . . | . . 4 | . . . ER=2.0

Actually, it's game #1

JPF

by **TTHsieh** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:22 pm

Code: Select all: . . . | 1 . . | . . . 2 3 4 | 5 . . | . 1 . 6 . . | . . . | 2 3 7 - - - + - - - + - - - . . . | . . . | . 4 . . . . | . 8 . | . . . . 1 . | . . . | . . . - - - + - - - + - - - 4 8 5 | . . . | . . 9 . 7 . | . . 1 | 8 6 4 . . . | . . 7 | . . . ER=1.5

TTHsieh

by **JPF** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:42 pm

Code: Select all: . . . | 1 . . | . . . 2 3 4 | 5 . . | . 6 . 5 . . | . . . | 7 3 8 -------+-------+------- . . . | . . . | . 2 . . . . | . 9 . | . . . . 4 . | . . . | . . . -------+-------+------- 7 1 5 | . . . | . . 6 . 6 . | . . 5 | 1 8 9 . . . | . . 2 | . . . ER=1.7

JPF

by **coloin** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:08 pm

A fiiting end to the thread, however I tried to make puzzles when the thread started.......until a 1.5 and a 1.7 on page 17 were posted here.

Sorry guys

C

by **TTHsieh** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:26 pm

Code: Select all: . . . | 1 . . | . . . 2 3 4 | 5 . . | . 6 . 7 . . | . . . | 8 9 3 - - - + - - - + - - - . . . | . . . | . 3 . . . . | . 4 . | . . . . 5 . | . . . | . . . - - - + - - - + - - - 4 6 3 | . . . | . . 7 . 9 . | . . 5 | 4 1 2 . . . | . . 9 | . . . ER=4.2

TTHsieh

by **gsf** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:47 pm

TTHsieh -- are you stuck too or are you waiting for the next move?
this pattern is not yielding many hits

by **JPF** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:18 pm

First thoughts :

TTHsieh wrote:My conception :
Build a patternbase that has 100~500 patterns, open to public.
When a pattern is selected, The new game starts.

I agree on the concept of a public pattern database with say 1000 items.
Who can host this database ?

When a game is over, a new game has to start, say at (x)pm GMT the following day.
The new pattern is randomly picked (#) in the database with a formula like

# =1000 x |sin(Dow)|

Dow is the first Dow Jones Industrial Average closing value after the game is closed.

I mention the Dow Jones, but any volatile public daily data can be used.

In that case, there is no dealer.
The score has to be set up regularly and any violations to the rules have to be denounced.
By whom ?

gsf wrote:a few comments after gleaning all the posts in this thread

use a unique phrase to start a new game, and don't use it in any other posts
"N-e-w p-a-t-t-e-r-n (#nn)" is a nice recent convetion (-'s inserted to not use the phrase!)

use a unique phrase for the last entrant to post additional puzzles after the game ends
something like "A-d-d-i-t-i-o-n-a-l r-a-t-i-n-g-s" followed by a list of "grid # rating", would be nice

the post times in the forum are rounded/truncated to minutes
how about just ignoring (no penalty) subsequent dup entries with a date within 1 minute of the first entry that is duplicated

this would help game accounting

gsf wrote:along with some mechanically parsable tagging for each of the post types:
start pattern, entry, progress update, call to end game, extra puzzles by last poster, final tally

gsf,
I 'm not sure I understand what you want to achieve.

JPF

by **JPF** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:23 am

Code: Select all: . . . | 1 . . | . . . 2 3 4 | 5 . . | . 1 . 6 . . | . . . | 2 7 8 -------+-------+------- . . . | . . . | . 5 . . . . | . 6 . | . . . . 8 . | . . . | . . . -------+-------+------- 8 5 1 | . . . | . . 2 . 9 . | . . 4 | 6 3 5 . . . | . . 9 | . . . ER=1.2

JPF

by **gsf** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:30 am

JPF wrote:gsf,
I 'm not sure I understand what you want to achieve.

yes, I did ramble a bit
I'm not interested in the "rules" as much as how to automate them
and I'm not interested in hijacking your neat concept
I am interested in the programming behind automating the accouning for this game

public database: this is the cynic in me reacting -- public patterns would allow some
users to play those games on the side, cache up the entries, and kill on any game
for which they have a cache

annotated keywords: the main point here is that accounting is tedious and error prone
this would allow some of the accounting to be automated
there were at least three game starts that had no annotation at all

e.g., with specific keywords for

next-pattern-starts-at t GMT -- notice that a new pat will be dealt soon
new-pattern #n -- the post containing the first entry for game n
current-results -- a post containing the current ratings/scores
entries-closed -- allows the last entrant to post any cached entries
additional-puzzles -- last entrant additional entries
final-results -- the final results

it would be possible to monitor the thread and automatically post result updates
and the grand total after additional puzzles are posted
the current results could be posted each 10 or so entries, maybe also with a timeout trigger
this monitor could also validate and penalize and post those automatically

the "entries closed" notice could also be automatic, e.g., the current game is closed when
there are no additional entries for say 12 or 24 hours
there could be a prior notice for the entries close to give the last entrant time to post cached puzzles
the additional puzzles notice could have a time limit

(monitoring) By whom ?

by an unbiased computer that needs no sleep

I have some scripts already working
I'd be willing to set up a test thread to (collabortively) flesh out the mechanics

if we can collect some measures of a good game it might even be possible to generate new game entries
e.g., I think the last game here is bad -- too hard to find entries, highest rating after 1/2 day is 4.2
given a generator I think it would be possible to automate the refereeing for an entire game

by **gsf** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:51 am

I may not have made it clear in the previous post that it is possible to script
programs that snarf posts from the forum and then glean info from the html
and it is also possible to script new posts to the forum
I've been using the unix shell + the wget command

I have a script that does accounting on all of the patterns games by gleaning the puzzle entries
from the downloaded html and guessing the first pattern in each game

being able to automate this is why I think standard tagging is important
a side effect of standard tagging and automated refereeing is that improperly tagged
entries would be discarded -- a sort of de facto penalty

here's the output for the last 3 games

Code: Select all: game 0037 2007-11-30+09:15:00-0000 duration 23h34m dealer TTHsieh index 1290 (final) X00X0000X0XX0000X00000000X0000X0X00X0000X0000X00X0X0000X00000000X0000XX0X0000X00X 1.2 1.5 1.7 2.0 2.3 2.5 2.6 2.8 3.0 3.2 3.4 3.6 3.8 4.2 4.4 4.5 4.6 4.7 5.0 5.2 5.6 5.7 6.2 6.5 6.6 6.69 6.7 6.8 6.9 7.0 7.1 7.2 7.3 7.4 7.5 7.6 7.7 7.8 7.9 8.0 8.1 8.2 8.3 8.4 8.5 8.6 8.7 8.8 8.9 9.0 9.1 9.2 9.3 9.4 9.5 9.6 9.7 9.8 9.9 submitter entries score response notes ----------- ------- ----- -------- ----- gsf 2 -88 6m59s PRR m_b_metcalf 17 416 10m06s JPF 11 420 15m23s TTHsieh 29 963 4m19s DHL ----------- ------- 4 59

59 posted puzzles wrote:
100200003034000050000000060000307002000050000800106000050000000080000430200005006 # 57 1.2 TTHsieh
100200003024000050000000060000107008000020000800503000040000000060000240300008001 # 5 1.5 m_b_metcalf
100200003024000050000000060000301007000020000700506000060000000040000280300007001 # 31 1.7 JPF
100200003024000050000000060000107008000020000800503000040000000060000420300008001 # 1 2.0 TTHsieh
100200003024000050000000060000701008000020000800406000050000000040000270600008001 # 18 2.3 TTHsieh
100200003042000050000000040000602001000040000200703000080000000050000780300001009 # 42 2.5 TTHsieh
800700001065000040000000050000105003000020000700806000090000000020000690300007008 # 19 2.6 m_b_metcalf
100200003024000050000000040000301006000020000600507000070000000080000290300006001 # 32 2.8 TTHsieh
100200003042000050000000060000502007000040000200801000090000000060000890300007001 # 36 3.0 TTHsieh
100200003024000050000000060000701008000020000300906000040000000050000240600008001 # 44 3.2 TTHsieh
700200009024000010000000060000107005000020000900503000040000000060000420500009003 # 11 3.4 m_b_metcalf
700900006023000010000000030000603008000050000800701000040000000030000420600008007 # 47 3.6 m_b_metcalf
100200003042000050000000060000704002000080000200903000060000000070000680300009001 # 38 3.8 TTHsieh
100200003024000050000000060000301007000020000700608000090000000040000290300007001 # 46 4.2 TTHsieh
100200003024000050000000060000301007000020000700608000050000000090000280300007001 # 22 4.4 TTHsieh
100200003024000010000000050000406007000050000500108000080000000050000820300009004 # 26 4.5 TTHsieh
100200003024000050000000060000103007000020000400506000080000000090000240600007009 # 48 4.6 TTHsieh
100200003042000050000000060000306007000080000200901000060000000050000980300007001 # 56 4.7 JPF
100200003042000050000000060000504007000080000200901000050000000080000940300007001 # 54 5.0 JPF
900100003024000050000000020000301008000040000800906000030000000050000640100008009 # 41 5.2 m_b_metcalf
100200003024000050000000060000107008000020000700903000040000000050000420300008007 # 40 5.6 TTHsieh
900200007032000080000000050000907002000080000200105000060000000080000630700001009 # 53 5.7 m_b_metcalf
900700001047000060000000050000302009000050000300104000070000000060000470100009003 # 45 6.2 m_b_metcalf
100200003043000050000000060000706008000050000300904000060000000050000410800005002 # 55 6.5 TTHsieh
100200003024000050000000060000105007000020000300807000040000000060000420700003001 # 3 6.6 JPF
100200003024000050000000040000301004000020000600507000070000000050000260800003001 # 28 6.69 TTHsieh
100200003024000050000000060000301007000020000700604000080000000090000280300007001 # 35 6.7 JPF
100200003064000090000000080000306001000050000200704000070000000050000460300001002 # 7 6.8 m_b_metcalf
100200005024000060000000090000105008000020000900703000040000000070000240500008001 # 37 6.9 m_b_metcalf
100200003034000050000000060000301007000050000800906000050000000070000430600005002 # 50 7.0 TTHsieh
700200009024000010000000060000107005000020000800305000040000000060000420500009003 # 9 7.1 m_b_metcalf
100200003024000050000000040000106007000020000600803000040000000050000920300007006 # 8 7.2 TTHsieh
100200003024000050000000060000103007000020000600805000050000000040000290300007001 # 12 7.3 TTHsieh
100200003045000060000000070000508002000060000300901000080000000070000540200003001 # 33 7.4 JPF
100200003048000070000000060000405001000080000200603000060000000070000840300001002 # 23 7.5 m_b_metcalf
100200003024000050000000060000301007000020000700406000060000000080000240300007001 # 30 7.6 TTHsieh
100200003074000080000000050000408002000050000300601000080000000050000470200003001 # 21 7.7 m_b_metcalf
100200003024000010000000050000403006000050000500107000070000000050000720300008004 # 20 7.8 TTHsieh
100200003045000060000000070000308002000060000200104000050000000070000540300009001 # 29 7.9 JPF
100200005027000040000000060000501008000020000800906000090000000040000290500008001 # 39 8.0 m_b_metcalf
100200003045000060000000040000704001000060000200503000070000000060000580300001002 # 59 8.1 TTHsieh
100200003042000050000000060000102007000030000300405000050000000080000540700003001 # 34 8.2 TTHsieh
100900003024000050000000060000107008000020000800503000040000000060000520300008001 # 2 8.3 m_b_metcalf
100200003024000050000000060000103007000020000400506000080000000090000240300007009 # 16 8.4 TTHsieh
100700008024000050000000020000401003000060000800907000050000000060000240300002001 # 17 8.5 m_b_metcalf
100200003068000050000000070000708002000040000300106000070000000050000840200003001 # 25 8.6 m_b_metcalf
100200006032000090000000040000502007000040000200801000050000000090000830600007001 # 49 8.7 gsf
100200003024000050000000060000103007000020000600508000040000000080000290300007001 # 24 8.8 TTHsieh
100200003024000050000000060000107004000020000300809000090000000050000280700003001 # 14 8.9 TTHsieh
100200003024000050000000060000102007000050000300806000050000000060000540900003001 # 4 9.0 TTHsieh
100200003024000050000000060000103007000050000700608000090000000050000940300007001 # 10 9.1 TTHsieh
100200003024000050000000060000107008000020000700903000050000000060000420300008007 # 6 9.2 TTHsieh
100300007024000050000000020000401003000060000800903000050000000060000240300008001 # 15 9.3 m_b_metcalf
100900003024000050000000060000301008000050000900802000040000000060000420300007001 # 13 9.4 gsf
100200003045000060000000070000302008000060000900804000050000000070000540800001002 # 27 9.5 JPF
100200003045000060000000070000802001000060000300904000050000000070000540800001009 # 51 9.6 JPF
100200003045000060000000070000302001000060000800104000050000000070000450200009008 # 43 9.7 JPF
100200003045000060000000040000307001000020000200108000060000000070000450900001002 # 58 9.8 JPF
100200003045000060000000050000307001000080000200109000060000000050000470700001002 # 52 9.9 TTHsieh

Code: Select all: game 0038 2007-12-03+09:25:00-0000 duration 1d02h dealer TTHsieh index 1365 (final) X0000000X0X0X000X000X000X000X00X0000000XXX0000000X00X000X000X000X000X0X0X0000000X 1.5 1.7 2.0 2.3 2.5 2.6 2.8 3.0 3.2 3.4 3.6 3.8 4.0 4.2 4.4 4.5 4.6 4.7 5.0 5.2 5.6 5.7 5.8 6.2 6.5 6.6 6.69 6.7 6.8 6.9 7.0 7.1 7.2 7.3 7.4 7.5 7.6 7.7 7.8 7.9 8.0 8.1 8.2 8.3 8.4 8.5 8.6 8.7 8.8 8.9 9.0 9.1 9.2 9.3 9.4 9.5 9.6 9.7 9.8 9.9 10.0 10.1 10.2 10.3 10.4 10.5 10.6 11.0 submitter entries score response notes ----------- ------- ----- -------- ----- gsf 1 57 0 m_b_metcalf 21 417 10m47s P JPF 11 487 16m19s TTHsieh 25 793 5m01s DHL ----------- ------- 4 68

68 posted puzzles wrote:
100000002020100030004000500030060000000725000000040010006000400080003090200000006 # 1 1.5 TTHsieh
800000006030500020005000900040020000000369000000040070009000600020004030600000005 # 41 1.7 m_b_metcalf
100000002020300040003000500060070000000512000000080030005000200030004060900000001 # 33 2.0 TTHsieh
100000002030100040005000600070010000000326000000080010008000500090004030200000008 # 59 2.3 TTHsieh
100000002020300040006000700040060000000172000000090030001000600030004020700000005 # 57 2.5 gsf
100000002070100030004000500030060000000725000000040010006000400010003090200000006 # 8 2.6 m_b_metcalf
100000002060100030004000500030060000000925000000040010006000400080003090200000006 # 10 2.8 m_b_metcalf
700000008030800020009000600090040000000785000000010060008000200060003090500000007 # 30 3.0 m_b_metcalf
100000002020300040005000600030070000000156000000080090001000500090007020600000008 # 31 3.2 TTHsieh
800000007050400030001000600030020000000518000000090040008000100040005090700000008 # 39 3.4 m_b_metcalf
100000002030100040005000600040060000000325000000070010006000700080004090200000006 # 46 3.6 JPF
100000002090500080006000400080040000000926000000010030007000200050008090200000006 # 37 3.8 m_b_metcalf
100000002030400050004000300050060000000372000000010080005000700080005040200000001 # 60 4.0 TTHsieh
100000002030100040002000500060070000000452000000080090008000600090004010500000008 # 50 4.2 TTHsieh
100000002050100030004000500030060000000725000000040010006000400080003090200000005 # 14 4.4 m_b_metcalf
100000002020100030004000500030060000000725000000040010006000400070003080200000006 # 19 4.5 TTHsieh
100000002020300040005000600040030000000751000000060080007000500030002090500000001 # 58 4.6 TTHsieh
100000002030400010002000500060010000000352000000070030007000400040008090500000007 # 61 4.7 TTHsieh
100000002030400050006000400070020000000168000000040090008000100040007030200000007 # 62 5.0 TTHsieh
400000003060500010008000400070030000000746000000080050009000800050009060200000004 # 43 5.2 m_b_metcalf
700000004050100030004000900080040000000792000000060010009000700030008050500000006 # 26 5.6 m_b_metcalf
100000002020300040005000100040060000000751000000080030008000700030004090500000008 # 63 5.7 TTHsieh
100000002030400050006000700050030000000827000000010090007000800040005030200000007 # 64 5.8 TTHsieh
100000002020300040005000600070080000000519000000060050006000800090004070800000001 # 65 6.2 TTHsieh
100000002030400050004000100050060000000721000000030040006000300040005080200000006 # 48 6.5 JPF
100000002020100030004000500030040000000651000000070080006000100040002090500000006 # 13 6.6 TTHsieh
100000002020300040005000600040060000000713000000080090008000100030009050600000008 # 21 6.69 TTHsieh
100000002020300040005000100030020000000651000000070080007000600080004090500000007 # 47 6.7 TTHsieh
100000002030400050006000700080020000000691000000050040009000200050003080600000009 # 38 6.8 JPF
100000002020300040005000100060070000000489000000010050001000700040006020700000008 # 52 6.9 TTHsieh
100000002030100040005000600040070000000326000000050010007000200010004080600000007 # 51 7.0 JPF
100000002020100030004000500060070000000652000000040080005000200080003010900000004 # 7 7.1 TTHsieh
100000002020100030004000500010020000000465000000030070005000600030008020600000004 # 3 7.2 TTHsieh
100000002090100030004000500030060000000725000000040010006000400080003090500000006 # 4 7.3 m_b_metcalf
100000002020300040005000100040060000000751000000080070001000500070004030800000006 # 49 7.4 TTHsieh
100000002020300040005000600040070000000156000000040080009000100080004030500000006 # 66 7.5 TTHsieh
100000002020300040003000500040060000000172000000080030005000200030004060700000001 # 17 7.6 TTHsieh
100000002020300040005000100040010000000567000000080050001000600090002030600000008 # 25 7.7 TTHsieh
100000002020100030004000500030020000000465000000070080005000600090003010600000004 # 23 7.8 TTHsieh
100000002070400090003000800040030000000517000000020060002000100060009040500000003 # 20 7.9 m_b_metcalf
500000004010900030002000700080040000000237000000080090007000500030001080200000007 # 32 8.0 m_b_metcalf
100000002030400010005000600040030000000726000000050030002000500080001040700000006 # 67 8.1 TTHsieh
100000002020300010004000500060070000000485000000060090005000800090002060800000004 # 29 8.2 TTHsieh
100000002020900030004000500090060000000725000000040010006000400080003090200000006 # 2 8.3 m_b_metcalf
100000002020100030004000500030020000000465000000070010005000600010003070400000008 # 15 8.4 TTHsieh
100000002060500070003000400020060000000138000000040050007000100050002060400000003 # 16 8.5 m_b_metcalf
100000008030600020005000700090080000000547000000020060007000300060003090800000005 # 28 8.6 m_b_metcalf
100000002030200040005000600040070000000851000000060090009000500020004030600000001 # 68 8.7 TTHsieh
100000002020300040005000100040010000000567000000040080007000600010004020600000005 # 27 8.8 TTHsieh
100000002020300040005000100040010000000653000000070080007000500080004030900000001 # 9 8.9 TTHsieh
100000002020300010004000500060070000000845000000010090005000400090002030400000008 # 5 9.0 TTHsieh
100000002020300010004000500060070000000285000000040090008000200090001060500000004 # 11 9.1 TTHsieh
100000002080700040005000600040080000000531000000020070003000500070006080200000001 # 12 9.2 m_b_metcalf
100000002050600080003000700040020000000391000000050060009000100060008050700000003 # 18 9.3 m_b_metcalf
100000002070800040009000300080050000000731000000020060005000100040006070300000009 # 6 9.4 m_b_metcalf
700000004050100030004000900080060000000739000000040010006000700030008050200000006 # 22 9.5 m_b_metcalf
100000008030600020005000700090080000000541000000020060007000400060003090800000005 # 24 9.6 m_b_metcalf
100000002030400050006000700050030000000812000000040080007000200080009030200000006 # 55 9.7 JPF
100000002030400050006000700040070000000892000000050080002000900050003040700000006 # 36 9.8 JPF
100000002030400050006000700080010000000639000000050030007000100050003080200000006 # 35 9.9 m_b_metcalf
100000002030400050006000700080010000000259000000030040007000100040008030200000006 # 44 10.0 JPF
100000002030400050006000700080010000000639000000050040007000100040003080200000006 # 34 10.1 JPF
100000002030400050006000700080030000000125000000080040007000100090008030200000006 # 54 10.2 TTHsieh
100000002030400050006000700080050000000719000000030040002000100090003080700000006 # 40 10.3 JPF
100000002030400050006000700080010000000695000000030040007000100040009030200000006 # 42 10.4 JPF
100000002030400050006000700080030000000198000000070040002000600040005030700000009 # 56 10.5 TTHsieh
100000002030400050006000700080030000000957000000020040007000100090008030200000006 # 53 10.6 JPF
100000002030400050006000700080030000000965000000040090007000100050008030200000006 # 45 11.0 TTHsieh

Code: Select all: game 0039 2007-12-05+10:18:00-0000 duration 10h05m dealer JPF index 1455 (in progress) 000X00000XXXX000X0X00000XXX0000000X00000X00000X0000000XXX00000X0X000XXXX00000X000 1.2 1.5 1.7 2.0 4.2 submitter entries score response notes --------- ------- ----- -------- ----- JPF 3 -6 0 DL TTHsieh 2 10 0 H --------- ------- 2 5

5 posted puzzles wrote:
000100000234500010600000278000000050000060000080000000851000002090004635000009000 # 5 1.2 JPF
000100000234500010600000237000000040000080000010000000485000009070001864000007000 # 2 1.5 TTHsieh
000100000234500060500000738000000020000090000040000000715000006060005189000002000 # 3 1.7 JPF
000600000574100030200000185000000040000050000010000000639000002080009576000004000 # 1 2.0 JPF
000100000234500060700000893000000030000040000050000000463000007090005412000009000 # 4 4.2 TTHsieh

by **TTHsieh** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:50 am

In the past 16 hours, I could not connect to the internet.
For this pattern, all ratings I could find are 1.2, 1.5, 1.7, 2.0, 4.2

gsf wrote:this pattern is not yielding many hits

How did you know ?TTHsieh

by **gsf** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:12 pm

TTHsieh wrote:
In the past 16 hours, I could not connect to the internet.
For this pattern, all ratings I could find are 1.2, 1.5, 1.7, 2.0, 4.2
gsf wrote:this pattern is not yielding many hits

How did you know ?

based on past participation you seem to always be on the top of the game
and those were the only ratings I could find too

by **JPF** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:43 pm

Thanks gsf for your explanations.

I think (and TTHsieh too) that your are the right person to open the new thread : Patterns Game II.

JPF

by **gsf** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:42 pm

JPF wrote:Thanks gsf for your explanations.
I think (and TTHsieh too) that your are the right person to open the new thread : Patterns Game II.

ok
I'll need a day or two
I'll call it "Patterns Game 1.5" to work out kinks
because there will be some

The New Sudoku Players' Forum

Patterns Game 1.0