Multi national puzzle

Anything goes, but keep it seemly...

Postby ronk » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:58 am

udosuk wrote:15. The owner who only drinks Water lives next to the one who smokes Blend.
[...]
It turns out one of the clues is redundant... The real challenge is to find out which is the redundant clue.

The last ... #15 is redundant ... and without it the puzzle could ask ...

Who has fish?
And who drinks water?

... and have a unique solution.
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Postby emm » Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:13 am

Also you have to assume that Clue# 4 means the green house is directly on the left of the white house, otherwise the 1st house could be green and the 3rd, 4th and 5th could be white or yellow or red which is too many possibilities.
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Postby ronk » Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:35 am

emm wrote:Also you have to assume that Clue# 4 means the green house is directly on the left of the white house ...

I did ... but maybe that's incorrect ... and probably why tarek added a 16th clue. I'll take another look in the AM.
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Postby RW » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:28 am

ronk wrote:The last ... #15 is redundant ... and without it the puzzle could ask ...

Who has fish?
And who drinks water?

... and have a unique solution.


That sounds familiar. If I remember correctly, when I first heard this riddle as a kid, there was lots of clues and finally two questions about some things that weren't mentioned in any of the clues.

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Postby tarek » Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:41 pm

Clue #17: The man who drinks tea wished that he lived next to the white house.


This should be the final clue .......

Who is the Fish-lover ? (The answer is not so surprising)

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Postby tarek » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:19 am

It seems that this fell out of interest, but anyway just in case somedy did wonder....

indeed the Green house is to the Left of the White House & not JUST LEFT of the white house........

Therefore....

The Green House had more than one option........

[Edit: Phrase removed after response was generated]

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Last edited by tarek on Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby MCC » Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:13 pm

tarek wrote:It seems that this fell out of interest, but anyway just in case somedy did wonder....

tarek you need to cultivate patience, you only posted this on Friday.
I attempted this in the early hours of Monday morning with the Norwegian ending up with the fish, even without the extra clues.
So put it aside till this afternoon to have another go at it.

tarek wrote:The owner of the cat always complains about his neighbour's dog.

If this clue is correct then they all live on a small island where the houses are in a circle and the Norwegian has a Dane on one side and a Swede on the other.

So then, which house is #1 and which of them is in middle:?:


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Postby tarek » Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:10 pm

I'm glad you replied MCC,,,
The Norwegian definitely is NOT the one who ends up having the FISh................ It was just a smoke screen...... (& I'll edit the post to avoid confusion)

Now,,,

I tried solving it with house numbered from Rt to Left...... (1 is Rightmost)........ The puzzle is solvable using the 1st original 15 Clues....
However (As you mentioned) What if #1 is leftmost......... The puzzle was not solvable using the information provided

So Points of cofusion were:
1. "Left of" is Not "Just Left of"
2. 1st can be Rightmost or Leftmost......

Clue #16: Would makes it IMPOSSIBLE for House #1 to be Rightmost, & Clue#17 would ultimately make it possible to answer the question...

here are the original 15 clues
Code: Select all
1  The Brit lives in the Red house.
2  The Swede keeps dogs as pets.
3  The Dane drinks tea.
4  The Green house is on the left of the White house.
5  The owner of the Green house drinks coffee.
6  The person who smokes Pall Mall rears birds.
7  The owner of the Yellow house smokes Dunhill.
8  The man living in the centre house drinks milk.
9  The Norwegian lives in the first house.
10 The man who smokes Blends lives next to the one who keeps cats.
11 The man who keeps horses lives next to the man who smokes Dunhill.
12 The man who smokes Blue Master drinks beer.
13 The German smokes Prince.
14 The Norwegian lives next to the Blue house.
15 The man who smokes Blends has a neighbour who drinks water.
& the extra 2 clues
Code: Select all
16 The owner of the cat always complains about his neighbour's dog.
17 The man who drinks tea wished that he lived next to the white house.


The question remains..
who has the FISH ????

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Postby emm » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:17 pm

Yes, Tarek - you have to give us a chance! I've been rushed off my feet since you posted this!:D

I don’t think these houses can be in a circle because the puzzle specifies a row.
However the green house is not necessarily directly to the left of the white so it could also be the 1st house, not just the 4th.
I took it that 'first' was leftmost not rightmost - because that’s the way Einstein would have thought.:D

With the green house being 4th, as most assume, then the German has the fish.
But with the green house at firstmost and leftmost there are 2 solutions – either the German / Dane have the fish / cats.


Code: Select all
     1        2       3        4          5
   Norweg   German   Brit     Dane      Swede
   green    blue     red      yellow    white
   coffee   water    milk     tea       beer
   birds    cats     horses   fish      dogs
   P/Mall   Prince   Blends   Dunhill   B/Master



Code: Select all
     1        2       3        4          5
   Norweg   German   Brit     Dane      Swede
   green    blue     red      yellow    white
   coffee   water    milk     tea       beer
   birds    fish     horses   cats      dogs
   P/Mall   Prince   Blends   Dunhill   B/Master


Clue 16 - the Danish cat owner is next to the Swede who has the dogs – so now the answer must be the German has the fish – unless he gives up smoking and we know that’s never going to happen!

Clue 17 – The Dane's wish came true!
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Postby emm » Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:56 am

The movers came in - now the Dane keeps fish and wishes he could move back to No. 4 and the German teetotaller! complains about the Swedish Vallhunds.

Code: Select all
   1         2         3        4         5
   Norweg    German    Swede    Brit      Dane
   green     blue      white    red       yellow
   coffee    water     milk     beer      tea
   birds     cats      dogs     horses    fish
   P/Mall    Prince    Blends   B/Master  Dunhill
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Postby tarek » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:06 pm

Congrats emm:D

The legend states that Einstein said that only 2% of prople could solve this.

Your answer emm is the only answer & unique answer of this 17-clue riddle even if the position of the 1st house was unknown & with the green house somewhere to the left of the white house.


emm wrote:took it that 'first' was leftmost not rightmost - because that’s the way Einstein would have thought.:D

if the 1st house was the Rightmost then there should be a unique answer using the original 15 clues only, & even with the green house place being somwhere to the left of the white house, it is actually just to the left of it.... What do you think now emm ???:D

Code: Select all
*-----------------------------------------------------------*
| 5         | 4         | 3         | 2         | 1         |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
| German    | Swede     | Brit      | Dane      | Norwegian |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
| Fish      | Dog       | Birds     | Horse     | Cat       |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
| Green     | White     | Red       | Blue      | Yellow    |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
| Prince    | B/Master  | P/Mall    | Blends    | Dunhill   |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
| Coffee    | Beer      | Milk      | Tea       | Water     |
*-----------------------------------------------------------*


with that in mind, ronk was the 1st to report the correct answer for the original 15-clue puzzle that has the 1st house Rightmost....


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Postby emm » Thu Aug 17, 2006 3:09 am

tarek wrote:What do you think now emm ???:D

Umm.... now I think that you don’t think that I think like Einstein?:D

And I’m taken aback – no, not by that - but because I never even considered numbering from the right.

It just goes to show, I’m stuck in L-> R mode. I have to work at being more broad-minded.

As for the 2% of ‘prople’ – do you think Einstein would have factored in the help of an Excel spreadsheet?:D
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Postby tarek » Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:48 am

emm wrote:I think that you don’t think that I think like Einstein?:D

I was actually casting doubt on the source of the puzzle:D

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Postby ronk » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:30 am

tarek wrote:ronk was the 1st to report the correct answer for the original 15-clue puzzle that has the 1st house Rightmost....

I had little imagination that day. Never thought of counting right-to-left and never thought the green house might be to the left, but not the immediate left, of the white house. So this was my solution to the puzzle.
Code: Select all
  1         2         3          4        5
Norweg    Dane      Brit       German   Swede
yellow    blue      red        green    white
______    tea       milk       coffee   beer
cats      horses    birds      ______   dogs
Dunhill   Blends    Pall Mall  Prince   Blue Master

Who has fish?
Who drinks water?

However, suffering from lack of brain power, I didn't realize at the time that the 15th clue was redundant.:)

I don't think the original creator of the puzzle included any trick questions with ambiguous wording. S/he just used "on the left" to indicate immediate left as opposed to "next to" for either immediate left or right. I also think it's more likely the creator included a redundant clue instead of omitting a necessary clue for a unique solution.

I definitely enjoyed working the puzzle.
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