The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[domp]

does somebody help me.

Are the 2 sudokus below, the same, with means isomorphics
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2 _
_ _ 3 _ _ 4 _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 5
_ _ _ _ _ 6 3 _ _
1 7 _ _ _ _ _ _ 8
_ _ _ _ 7 _ _ _ _
_ _ 2 _ _ _ 9 5 _
_ _ 6 1 8 _ _ _ _

0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
0 0 3 0 4 5 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0
0 0 0 2 0 6 0 0 0
0 0 7 0 0 0 0 5 0
0 0 0 0 8 0 0 3 0
0 4 0 0 9 0 0 0 0
1 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 6

I believe the second is the right minlex form.

I have the same for 47 others puzzle. Maybe my Minlex routine as some bug !
Domp

[Mathimagics]

The second form is the right one.

Code: Select all

........1........2..3.45........1......2.6.....7....5.....8..3..4..9....1.....9.6

 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . . . | . . . | . . 1 |
 | . . . | . . . | . . 2 |
 | . . 3 | . 4 5 | . . . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . . . | . . 1 | . . . |
 | . . . | 2 . 6 | . . . |
 | . . 7 | . . . | . 5 . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . . . | . 8 . | . 3 . |
 | . 4 . | . 9 . | . . . |
 | 1 . . | . . . | 9 . 6 |
 +-------+-------+-------+


[Mathimagics]

Hmmm, on second thoughts, the 2nd is close to, but NOT the absolute minlex form.

This is the right form:

Code: Select all

........1........2..3.45........1......2.6.....7....5.....8..3..1....9.64...9....


 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . . . | . . . | . . 1 |
 | . . . | . . . | . . 2 |
 | . . 3 | . 4 5 | . . . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . . . | . . 1 | . . . |
 | . . . | 2 . 6 | . . . |
 | . . 7 | . . . | . 5 . |
 +-------+-------+-------+
 | . . . | . 8 . | . 3 . |
 | . 1 . | . . . | 9 . 6 |
 | 4 . . | . 9 . | . . . |
 +-------+-------+-------+


[JPF]

Are the 2 sudokus below, the same, with means isomorphics
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2 _
_ _ 3 _ _ 4 _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 5
_ _ _ _ _ 6 3 _ _
1 7 _ _ _ _ _ _ 8
_ _ _ _ 7 _ _ _ _
_ _ 2 _ _ _ 9 5 _
_ _ 6 1 8 _ _ _ _

0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
0 0 3 0 4 5 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0
0 0 0 2 0 6 0 0 0
0 0 7 0 0 0 0 5 0
0 0 0 0 8 0 0 3 0
0 4 0 0 9 0 0 0 0
1 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 6

The answer is yes. They are isomorphic.

JPF

[m_b_metcalf]

The answer is yes. They are isomorphic.

And, happpily, my own home-grown program gives the same answer.

Mike

[domp]

thanks for yours answers

I have modified my own software.
I have tested it, with the 49158 17 clues list from Dobrichev site.

I can find 1260 puzzles who aren't minlex, other are minlex (I believe)
Can somebody confirm ?

If it's interesting for someone, how can I put the file.txt (115KO) of the original 1260 puzzles, with the 49158 dobrichev index.
The 10 first index are
3769
3830
4735
4736
6082
17188
17189
17190
17191
17192

I prepare the same, with the 550.000 puzzles, from the site : " potential hardest/ 03 TT something & nothing special"

thanks for your help.
domp

[Serg]

Hi, domp!

I can find 1260 puzzles who aren't minlex, other are minlex (I believe)
Can somebody confirm ?

The right answer is 1505 17-clue puzzles which are not in minlex form. See discussion in 17 Clue Puzzles Apparently Not in Row-Based Minlex Form.

Serg

[domp]

thanks Serg,

It's ok, I get 1505. At this moment it needs 2 hours with laptop ! It's not a powerfull software. Probably some upgrades necessary.

But now, I am sure to make right comparaisons.

Domp

[domp]

I have mistakes for exocet identification.

With the puzzle (nothing 2107) : ........1..2..3.4..4..5.6.......2.7.....8.4.5..347...6.3...7.9.2.98.....7.....1..
I find and exocet 1.5.6.8, base c2r89, target1 r2c1, target2 r4c3, but it implies eliminations error :
Target1 elimination 9 is ok, target2 elimination 4 is wrong.

Which certainly means that it's not an exocet, but I don't understand why ?
The 3 scell lignes, have between 1 and 2, base candidates, for each ligne and each base candidate
The 2 mirrors cells of target1, together have 4 bases digits
The 2 mirrors cells of target2, together have 2 bases digits

When I try to use several web software solver, all says it's not an exocet, but it doesn't help me, why ?

I have several puzzles with the same problem.
for exemple:
........1..2..3.4..5..6.7....1..26...4..1..7.8..9.......6..45...3..2...79..8..... (3281 7065064) 2.3.8.9 base c7r12, T1 r7c8, T2 r5c9 : wrong elimination 1 r7c8

domp

[yzfwsf]

Puzzle 1: Error Elimination 4 is the placeholder for T2, Puzzle 2: T2 has no placeholder, scells is not satisfied.

[domp]

Thanks for this quick answer.
Sorry, but I don't know that is a 'placeholder'.

For puzzle 2, I will verify the Scell, and send them.

As both puzzle don't have the same problems, can I send some more exemples ?

dom

[yzfwsf]

Sorry, but I don't know that is a 'placeholder'.
dom

For a possible target cell pair, the following test must be passed. One cell contains base candidates and the other cell does not contain base candidates.

[domp]

for puzzle 2,

I join the puzzle within a file, with the remaining candidates,
exocet 2.3.8.9 base c7r12, T1 r7c8, T2 r5c9 : wrong elimination 1 r7c8, good elimination 5 r5c9
and four Scell added columns with, for each base candidates, the number of instances.

I hope this showing is usable !

[domp]

2 puzzles with, for each target pair, who : One cell contains base candidates and the other cell does not contain base candidates.
I think Scells are valides

but I have the same problem of elimination, for one of the targets

........1..2..3.4..4..5.6.....7..4...1..8...69....185...3..2....8.....6.7.19..... (1224 nothing) 2.3.7.9 base c9r46 target r3c8 r8c7 : wrong elimination 1 r8c7, good elimination 8 r3c8

.....1..2....3..45..6...7...5..2..1..6...5..38..7..5...7.8..9..6.8.9....9.5..4... (2239 nothing) 1.2.3.4 base c2r89 target r3c1 r6c3 : wrong elimination 5 r3c1, good elimination 9 r6c3

It's again something I don't understand