The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[tso]

I believe many of the regulars would *love* to have a locked, sticky post with the subject "FAQ -- PLEASE DO NOT POST BEFORE READING" at the top of several of the individual forums that includes (and/or points to a post that contains):

-- Once and for all, explicit instructions on how to post a legible grid including the use of the CODE command. (Such as the one they have here.).

-- Instructions on how to search the forum. The built in search command is often useless. Google's Advanced Search is substantially more effective.

-- Pointers to all the popular tutorials -- Simple Sudoku, Sadman Sudoku, Susser, etc. (as well as popular helper software if deemed appropriate).

-- A pointer to basic terms used here.

-- A pointer to Gaby Vanhegan's must-have dictionary of Sudoku Dictionary/Lexicon.

-- Short answers and/or pointers to previous discussions answering frequently asked questions such as -- "Is guessing required?" "Is trial and error required?" "Are multiple solutions possible?" "How many this, that or the other are possible?" "Is it possible to include diagonals?", etc.

-- Notice to please not post solutions unless asked.

Whadda think? I'm sure there are several of us who would volunteer to put together an appropriate FAQ for you to review and post.

[EDIT:] That first paragraph should also have said that newcomers and novices would *also* greatly appreciate a FAQ, probably more so than the regulars. I know from first hand experience -- anecdotal as it may be -- that it was confusing at first. Though I was a relative Sudoku expert, having solved them for decades, still I was afraid to post for fear of repeating the same questions, I couldn't get my diagrams to look right, couldn't figure out how to include URLs, especialy to specific pages within the forum, didn't notice the basic terms page, etc. It does seem that sometimes a newcomer *never* gets her/his question answered because no one is ever able to correctly parse the question or decrypt their diagram. I come from from the olden world of the usenet, where any reasonably busy group had a FAQ. This one is *very* busy. There's no good reason not to have a FAQ.

[stocku]

This is exactly what I was hoping some one would do and so very, very kind of you.

I completely understand how irritating it must be for the experts here to find the same "banal" queries and "first grader" incompetence appearing time after time. You don't suffer fools gladly and why should you, but how else do newcomers find their way through the fog?

Your proposal is tremendous and I am certain other expert colleagues will be happy to assist (do you envisage a "committee" adjudicating the ongoing vetting and addition of new principles eg BUG for inclusion by Vanhegan?). Sudoku is so fascinating, a universal language if ever there was one, and I for one will be eternally grateful to you if this development gets Wayne's (and Scott's) seal of approval.

[Nick67]

Good ideas, tso.

Let me add this: I think it would be important
to present the FAQs in such a way that a new user feels
welcome (and not intimidated) to post, and in such a way
that a new user doesn't have to do too much reading/studying
before posting.

[tso]

[...deleted by sarcasm filter...]

I edited my original post in response to your comments. I didn't mean to imply that the FAQ was merely for the benefit of the regulars, but clearly that *is* what I did.

Let me add this: I think it would be important
to present the FAQs in such a way that a new user feels
welcome (and not intimidated) to post, and in such a way
that a new user doesn't have to do too much reading/studying
before posting.

I absolutely agree. The Sticky portion of the FAQ should be just a single page with less text than my original post in this thread. It might be at the top of the three SUDOKU: the Puzzle forums. The pointers would be to other posts within the forum as well as a few external sources for the tutorials, lexicons, etc. But it has to obvious to new visitors. Most would get all they need in just a few seconds and come back if they need another look.

[lunababy_moonchild]

I think that what you have proposed is a great idea, tso.

At least the regular users could refer newbies to this/these threads for their perusal. I know I'd appreciate this facility.

Perhaps a PM to Wayne might get the matter sorted out.

Luna

PS Animator has set up something here

[Pappocom]

I'm listening, and I think this is a good idea. But it will take me a while to get to it. Is anybody willing to submit a draft?

- Wayne

[stocku]

I do hope that tso will find the time to do this or, at least, drive it forward with help from others. (S)he has had the initiative to start this thread and has a great deal of sudoku experience and knowledge, a fact to which these forums testify.

May I please ask if the exact procedure for making links to other posts on this site and to other web sites could be part of any "tutorial". Also, could we bear in mind that English may not always be the reader's mother tongue.

Happy New Year to you all.

[Crazy Girl]

You also may like to consider an expanation of the advanced techniques used in this forum (bivalue/bilocation plot, chains/loops, strong/weak linked cells, ALS, BUG, uniqueness etc) for those of us who know the basic stuff described by AngusJ / Simes Clara but are struggling with the concept of the more technical stuff.

When describing these techniques using non-technical terms, with diagrams to clearly indicate what the process achieves, and maybe an example to go away and try?

[stocku]

Following up Crazy Girl's point about non-technical terms, the explanations would also be easier to follow if each was broken down into a numbered sequence, such that the reader could digest and absorb the individual "stepping stones" one at a time.

[lunababy_moonchild]

Actually, I think that we should have a whole section - at the very top of the Board - entitled "PLEASE DO NOT POST BEFORE READING" which would contain all sticky threads that are short enough to be worked through. One of which could be titled FAQ, another Basic Terms - I think that this should be moved from the General/Program section to the new section - and others entitled (say) Technical Terms (Basic) and Technical Terms (advanced). There could be one on how to use the Quote/Code/List/List=/Img/URL buttons, i.e a link to the BBCode Guide which makes it easier to find. Nobody has to read these all at once, but it would be helpful if they were to read before asking how to say, post some code.

This is by no means an exhaustive list, obviously, but it means that the proposed threads would be short enough to be easily digested and easily worked through (especially if we manage to get them into some sort of logical (?) order). It also involves the community at large because the technical experts will be better at the Technical Terms threads and others can chime in with suggestions on everything else - such as the newbies asking for what they would find useful etc.

I also think that, in order to make them easier to comprehend, they should all have the same basic format, like Animator's Sticky New topics - How to ask for help at the top of Help with Particular Puzzles section (not that I'm biased ).

I'm still pondering a draft of Tso's proposal, I just wanted to see how everybody felt about this suggestion.

Luna

[lunababy_moonchild]

Suggested FAQ's

Please note that this is a draft FAQ for members perusal.

Before posting please consider the following Basic Terms

Helpful Websites :

Angus J
Sudoku Susser
Sadman Software
Nikoli

This is what the buttons at the top of your post do i.e. formatting your post:

BBCode Guide


For 'how to solve a Classic 9x9 Sudoku rated Easy - Hard' please peruse the Technical Terms : Basic : (here would be a link to a post containing basic solving techniques, say, naked pairs etc?)

For advanced solving, please peruse the Technical Terms : Advanced : (here would be a link to a post containing advanced solving techniques say, x-wings and above?)

FAQ's themselves (obviously these would be accompanied by the answers!):

"Is guessing required?"
"Is trial and error required?"
"Are multiple solutions possible?"
"How many this, that or the other are possible?"
"Is it possible to include diagonals?"

It is considered polite on this Forum to (there would be a full list of do's here, this is just one example):

Assume that the poster is asking for a hint to get them started again and not asking for the full solution right away

So, that's it so far.

Any constructive comments/help?

Luna

[MCC]

Although a Sticky is fine, IMO I think newbies when they come across this site will flick through and read a few topics and decide that they would like to post a question without realising that there is a 'Sticky' that should be read before posting.
So I think that there should, if possible, be something in the post area, preferrably in very big letters, to direct them to the Sticky, that this is something to be read before posting.

MCC

[Crazy Girl]

Personally I'd separate Andvanced techniques into those that don't rely heavily on a computer and those that do. I've separated the different techniques I could think of into the Groups below, any comment

The techniques are also grouped in an order that you would come across, if you were a newbie / intermediate level player.

Basic Techniques
Locked Candidates
Row / Column / Block Interactions
Naked Singles
Hidden Singles
Naked Pairs
Hidden Pairs
Triplets/Quads

Intermediate Techniques
X-Wing
XY-Wing (& XYZ-Wing)
Swordfish
Jellyfish
Squirmbag
Turbot Fish
Colouring

Advanced Techniques
Nishio
Bilocation / Bivalue Plots
Chains / Loops
'Strong' links / 'Weak' links
BUG
Uniqueness
Almost Locked Sets
Almost Unique Rectangles

[stocku]

Crazy Girl - your summary and groupings are excellent.

I wonder:-

1. Should X-Wing just shade it as a basic technique? It gets the nod from Wayne, whereas none of the other "Intermediates"does.

2. If I have understood it correctly, should the particular application of BUG which permits a placement in the single "BUG+1" poly-value cell have "Intermediate" status?

3. Should we have a final "Trial and Error (aka brute force)" heading?

[lunababy_moonchild]

This is the kind of thing I was looking for, thanks for all comments.

I think that CrazyGirl's groupings are excellent. X-wing is, to me an intermediate/advanced technique since it's only required for Very Hard Pappocom puzzles.

As for BUG, I couldn't comment since I'm not at all familiar with the technique but I do harbour the opinion that Nishio is a form of trial and error.

I'm not in favour of having a whole heading on how you can solve the puzzle by trial and error, after all that would be one of the FAQ's and the answer to the eternal 'should you use trial and error' is inevitably "if you want to". Especially since Wayne insists that T&E is not necessary to solve any of his puzzles (and it's not) and it's these very puzzles that tend to bring people to this site. I don't honestly think that an overt explanation of T&E is necessary anyway since most newbies who ask about it are already doing it.

MCC I understand what you mean. It's a well known fact that newbies are not in the habit of reading anything before posting - I know I didn't - but I think that the point of Tso's original request was that the regulars would have somewhere to point newbies to instead of having to type out the same old same old.

Now, if we could just get these techniques into the one post ...............

Luna