Killer Killer?

For fans of Killer Sudoku, Samurai Sudoku and other variants

Killer Killer?

Postby Mel-o-rama » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:33 pm

Howdy,

I believe there was a thread on "Killer" Killers around Feb. 16. Did that thread get lost in the crash? If so, could someone please provide the link again?

The thread referred to Killer puzzles in which only the one's digit is given as a sum. That is 4 could represent 4, 14, 24, etc.

Does anyone remember that thread?
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Postby jimbob » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:12 am

These killers - called KiMos - can be found at www.diceboard.co.uk/
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Postby HATMAN » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:30 pm

Mel-o-rama

I did a post about KiMos a while ago but it seemed to get lost and I was not sure if this was the site-master's policy.

I just posted a new KiMo on Diceboard, which is a DG variant, and posted solutions to the first 26 KiMos.

Try KiMo 26C it is probably the hardest without T&E. Like most people I dislike T&E, but a couple of my early ones were on the borderline of definition (Udosuk was OK with them) and #6 was sufficiently interesting to be worthwhile even though it was a long 4-branch T&E.

I am interested in your views on the format.
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Postby Mel-o-rama » Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:32 am

These are awesome! I'm doing them in order, and I've completed the first four. These really cause you to think differently. Thanks, HATMAN!
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Postby Mel-o-rama » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:22 pm

#6 was the first really hard one I came across. I became stuck after awhile and then resorted to T&E (but not much).
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Postby HATMAN » Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:52 pm

Mel-o-rama

How much is "not much"? Have you checked over my solution - it was definitely “too much”?

After #7 they ease down a bit until you get to #18, then they wobble about up to 26C.

#27 and the current ones I’m working on are based on disjoint groups so are probably a bit easier.

A major problem with creating KiMos is that they flip off the scale very easily. I have been trying to adapt one of djape’s for a while. There is a beautifully intricate start, but then it goes dead. In order to get it going I have to split a cage, and the ones I have tried so far ruin the start, making it too easy. Hey – but I’ll get there.
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Postby Mel-o-rama » Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:20 am

HATMAN,

Somehow, I missed seeing your solutions link. It looks like I got "stuck" at about the same place it looks like you did some T&E. Now I'm going to try #7 and #8. (Don't tell the guys at my work. I'm supposed to be studying!)
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Postby HATMAN » Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:47 pm

Mel-o-rama

Try the DG killer i've put up - it is relatively easy (so should not keep you from your studies fro long) but interesting in the way you have to jump from one cell layout to the other.
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Postby HATMAN » Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:30 am

KiMo up

I did a TiKi on Monday (easy 11mins) in KiMo form and it took well over an hour, so I thought you might like to try it.
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Postby barneyzhen » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:52 pm

There VERY fun!
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Postby Mel-o-rama » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:21 pm

Before I do DG killer, I must report on the KiMos up through #8. #6 and #7 were hard in that the newspapers would give them a Black Belt rating. But, I've seen much harder. In my opinion, sudokus that require nested T&Es inside of other nested T&Es are just too hard to be fun. When I finally solve those I don't get a great sense of accomplishment - I'm just happy that I finally stumbled upon the correct answer and I can go do a "fun" sudoku.

Anyways, up to #7, none of your KiMos were that kind of hard. One or two T&Es don't kill the fun. #8 for some reason was hard for me and was on the border line of not being fun. On that one I went down one path, thinking I had the right one, and found a contradiction near the end. I had to back up, but the next path led to the correct solution.

Now I'll try your DG killers and see how those are.
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Postby Mel-o-rama » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:52 am

Wow! That DG-Killer #1 was wicked fun!
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Postby HATMAN » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:24 pm

Uniqueness - up to now all the killer puzzles with unique solutions that I have converted into KiMos have remained unique. I had hoped that this was provable, given that we had a proof for small cage sizes.

Unfortunately DJApe's COOL 23836 fails as a KiMo. There are multiple solutions. As expected the cages are large but not excessively so.

I have put it up together with the solutions for you to look at (or you can try and find all solutions.) I cannot see why exactly this one failed and would be grateful for any insights.

As the solution path was interesting I have also put a version with adjusted cages up that is unique.

Thanks for your positive comments

HATMAN
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Postby HATMAN » Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:47 am

It has been pointed out to me that I made a mistake in eliminating one branch in my non-unique KiMo, hence my number of solutions is understated.

If you do this one please post the number of solutions that you get.
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Postby HATMAN » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:33 pm

New KiMo up - based on one of DJ's Cools - but simplified a bit. It was still very difficult and after a very good start I got stuck.

I tried some more cage splitting but this ruined the start, so I thought I would follow the example of others and use a clue.

It's a good one - give it a try.


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