Gurth's Puzzles

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Re: Various plus CHALLENGE

Postby udosuk » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:50 pm

gurth wrote:Gurth's Bombshell (GC28) : A New Challenge
Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |...|..3|..2|
 |..4|...|.5.|
 |26.|9..|7..|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|.1.|.8.|
 |95.|...|3..|
 |.1.|49.|2..|
 |---+---+---|
 |8..|...|1..|
 |...|..2|..6|
 |1.9|.7.|...|
 *-----------*   SE 8.4
... you are CHALLENGED to solve this puzzle using NO chains, no nets, no fish, no wings, no colouring, no sets (locked or unlocked), no guesswork, no trial and error, no brute force and no computer. What you are required to use is intelligence and imagination.

That's how udosuk won the Emerald Challenge. And I shouldn't be surprised if he is the first to crack this CHALLENGE too.

Thanks for mentioning me...:) But sadly I couldn't even recall winning the Emerald Challenge... (The relentless performance from the Aussie cricketers was too good...:D ) Perhaps you'd like to provide a link as a reminder?

As for this challenge, I see from your restrictions only singles, box-line interactions and uniqueness moves are allowed...:?: Looks more like a task for Carcul, RW or Ruud... Or Maria perhaps...:) Anyway will try with more effort in the next few days...
Last edited by udosuk on Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby StrmCkr » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:50 pm

blah! (edited casue i disproved my own arguement)
Last edited by StrmCkr on Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:08 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby ronk » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:11 pm

StrmCkr wrote:if its a guess why did it work again?

its a pattern that replicates over and over

Are you suggesting that your "yes technique" works every time?

In other words, your technique never fails?
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Postby StrmCkr » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:23 pm

ive never said it doesnt fail nor suggested it.
i mearly posted that this is the second puzzle ive directly posted in that it seems toworks


edit...

found my own couter proof. (droping arguement)
Last edited by StrmCkr on Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ronk » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:48 pm

StrmCkr wrote:ive never said it doesnt fail every time nor suggested it. i mearly posted that this is the second puzzle ive directly posted in that it works on.

Sorry, but failing even once is proof the "technique" is not a technique at all, but rather is guessing.
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Postby StrmCkr » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:38 pm

.... edited.....
Last edited by StrmCkr on Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ronk » Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:37 am

StrmCkr wrote:well then show me a puzzle then as so far i haven't found a puzzle that fails to use this technique.

I already posted a disproof here. Besides ... by continuing to use your "technique" you'll soon find that puzzle yourself.

Expecting this to be my last post on this topic, Ron
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Postby StrmCkr » Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:11 am

edit
sounds about right udosuk.

besides i found my own counter proof anyway.

so im putting it to rest.

and
delteing all of it and trying something else
Last edited by StrmCkr on Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby udosuk » Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:01 am

StrmCkr, I don't think Ron is going to reply anymore... Personally I think you're entitled to believe in your own methods and use them as happily as you want... Although I don't understand them one bit and have given up on trying to do so since a long time ago, I respect your personal choice on sticking to them, just like you respect people's belief on their own religions, be it Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, or any other cults as long as they don't do anything to harm others...

Just like you can't force other people to study/use your methods, I don't think anybody else can prohibit you from using them, regardless of whether your methods are valid logic or guessing...

So I suggest we put this "argument" to rest and focus on Gurth's latest challenge, which is to solve his puzzle using singles/box-line interactions/uniqueness moves only...
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GC28 CHALLENGE

Postby gurth » Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:18 am

udosuk wrote:Emerald Uniqueness Rectangles and Parallelograms (EURs, EUPs) solve this puzzle nicely...:D


- I stated methods you may NOT use, no limits on what you MAY use. What about all the techniques you invent as required?
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Postby udosuk » Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:53 am

But gurth, I invented those methods because that puzzle has some special properties... I don't think this one has any special property (the BRICKS are just a layout to the clues, not related to the actual solving)... And it's obviously not an Emerald or a Sudoku X puzzle... So what could we invent here?:?:
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Postby gurth » Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:40 am

GC30 Octopus

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |...|...|92.|
 |8..|...|.6.|
 |..4|.8.|1.3|
 |---+---+---|
 |..1|2..|.4.|
 |.3.|51.|...|
 |...|...|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |9.2|...|..4|
 |.53|6..|...|
 |16.|.2.|.8.|
 *-----------*   SE 7.2

12 nice bricks to bash the diagonals with!
Brick rating = SE x bricks = 7.2 x 12 = 86.4 ... a lot better than GC28!

If you get past the two Turbot Fish, the six 7.1+ forcing chains and the bidirectional Y-Cycle, you may come upon a nice fat BUG of 33 cells in 9 rows, 9 columns and 7 boxes!

Of course, if you do it my way (as specified in my CHALLENGE with GC28) you will never see any fish, chains or cycles, let alone a BUG.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

udosuk, well let's give everyone more time to work this one out, before I get too hasty to give more hints. Maybe just this one: like Emmanuel Lasker, play the man rather than the board.
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Re: Various plus CHALLENGE

Postby Mauricio » Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:39 am

I posted this before in other thread. It has 24 bricks but I don't have SE at hand, so please rate it and check the minimality, I think it has ER 8+.
Code: Select all
6....2...
.9...4...
..89174..
..4...628
..1...9..
526...3..
..51498..
...7...1.
...3....4

gurth wrote:GC27

Code: Select all
  2 . . . . 9 . 5 .
  . 1 . . 8 . . . 4
  . . 3 7 . . . . .
  . . 6 . . . . . 9
  . 5 . . 1 . . 8 .
  4 . . . . . 7 . .
  . . . . . 6 1 . .
  7 . . . 5 . . 2 .
  . 8 . 4 . . . . 3   SE 8.5


Can mutate with 3a6, 4a6, 1a8, 7b9, 7d3, 2d9, 3f1, 8f1, 4g7, 4h8, 9h8, or 5k9.
Mutability Rating = SE x mutations = 8.5 x 12 = 102.0
Comparisons?

I searched in my list (I had to create a function that searches for mutations) of hard sudokus and found one with 11 mutations and ER 9.9, I'll post it later, I am away from my computer.
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Postby gurth » Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:04 am

GC31

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |7..|96.|8..|
 |..6|2..|.3.|
 |.3.|..1|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|3..|4..|
 |.6.|...|.5.|
 |4..|.1.|..8|
 |---+---+---|
 |91.|.8.|..6|
 |..2|..9|...|
 |3..|4..|2..|
 *-----------*   SE 8.3 ?????


"Analysis results

Difficulty rating: 8.3 / 10
This Sudoku can be solved using the following logical methods:
53 x Hidden Single
3 x Direct Hidden Pair
2 x Pointing
2 x X-Wing
2 x Hidden Pair
5 x Turbot Fish
9 x Forcing Chain
1 x Cell Forcing Chains "

SE will really have to be rewritten if it is to keep up with new techniques. As it stands, my techniques render this rating absurd.

This is another (3rd) example of a Sudoku which can be solved by the methods allowed in my CHALLENGE. However, in this case you may use naked pairs and trips as well.

After doing the CATEGORICALLY ESSENTIAL preliminary work, which in future is going to have to be done at the start of the solution to EVERY Sudoku of 7.0+ status. Not complying with this requirement will put the solver at risk of appearing stupid.

__________________________________________________________________

GC32 Brick

Code: Select all
 *-----------*
 |8.4|...|.92|
 |3.7|...|51.|
 |...|...|3.4|
 |---+---+---|
 |.46|..8|9..|
 |9.2|...|.7.|
 |13.|...|...|
 |---+---+---|
 |...|31.|8..|
 |...|5.2|...|
 |...|.64|...|
 *-----------*   SE 7.3

Remove one redundant clue and the rating goes up to 8.9. Remove one more redundant clue and the rating stays there. Now we may count the bricks (brick rating is not valid where there are redundant clues):
18 bricks.

Brick Rating = 8.9 x 18 = 160.2.

Why have I not removed the redundant clues? That's a clue.
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Postby gurth » Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:07 am

Mauricio,
Thanks for your 24-bricker. I'll check it soon and report back.
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