The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **daj95376** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:45 am

champagne wrote:I am also interested in getting the rows/columns/boxes equivalence to the cells solution

I'm not sure if the "exotic" thread is now exclusively dedicated to MSLS solutions, but I believe there is an old-fashioned Multi-Fish present.

Code: Select all: Puzzle #1: 9..8..7...8..9..6...5..4...8..3..2...2.....7...4..5..81..2...3..3..8.9....7..3..1 ;cells truths/covers ;16;95;10;10; c2b7 Locked Candidate 1 <> 9 r46c2 +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 9 146 1236 | 8 1356 126 | 7 1245 2345 | | 2347 8 123 | 157 9 127 | 1345 6 2345 | | 2367 167 5 | 167 1367 4 | 138 1289 239 | |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------| | 8 1567 169 | 3 1467 1679 | 2 1459 4569 | | 356 2 1369 | 1469 146 8 | 13456 7 34569 | | 367 167 4 | 1679 2 5 | 136 19 8 | |-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------| | 1 4569 8 | 2 4567 679 | 456 3 4567 | | 2456 3 26 | 14567 8 167 | 9 245 24567 | | 2456 4569 7 | 4569 456 3 | 4568 2458 1 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ # 139 eliminations remain Templates: 48 9 11 20 12 140 15 2 5 <289> accepted = 16 template combinations <289> <>2 r28c1 <289> <>1 r3c8 <289> <>3 r3c9 <289> <>4 r9c8 <289> <>5 r9c8 <289> r3c89,r9c8 locked for candidates

Multi-Fish row/column equivalence: created manually, may be incorrect

Code: Select all: (5) Truths = ( 28R39 9R3 ) (5) Links = ( 2c1 8c7 3n89 9n8 )

Let me know if this is inappropriate and I will withdraw it !

by **champagne** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:04 am

Hi Danny,

daj95376 wrote:I'm not sure if the "exotic" thread is now exclusively dedicated to MSLS solutions, but I believe there is an old-fashioned Multi-Fish present.

even if the stress came on the MSLS topic these days, the thread remains open to any exotic pattern and to all search methods, looking for the best efficiency.

daj95376 wrote:Multi-Fish row/column equivalence: created manually, may be incorrect

Code: Select all
(5) Truths = ( 28R39 9R3 ) (5) Links = ( 2c1 8c7 3n89 9n8 )

I expected such simple equivalences in the low ratings. Eliminations are the same as for my 16 MSLS solutions.
This is a kind of solution my solver should find with the appropriate search parameters

thanks

by **champagne** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:08 am

Hi leren,

It seems that our matching puzzles have the same split of digits, but generally not the same cells-base;.

here the results for other puzzles

for each puzzle, you have

the start PM
the rows columns matrix before addition of cells
the final rows columns boxes links
and the eliminations

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all: 98.7.......6.5.9.........436...9.2...2...8.....51...3.1..2....4.6..1.8....2..5.1.;cells truths/covers ;18;97;97;17; A B C |D E F |G H I 9 8 134 |7 2346 12346 |156 256 1256 2347 1347 6 |34 5 1234 |9 278 1278 257 157 17 |689 268 1269 |167 4 3 ---------------------------------------------------- 6 1347 13478 |345 9 347 |2 578 1578 347 2 13479 |3456 3467 8 |14567 5679 15679 478 479 5 |1 2467 2467 |467 3 6789 ---------------------------------------------------- 1 3579 3789 |2 3678 3679 |3567 5679 4 3457 6 3479 |349 1 3479 |8 2579 2579 3478 3479 2 |34689 34678 5 |367 1 679 rows 1 2 3 4 columns 1 7 8 9 SLG rank 0 18 Truths = {1N789 2N12489 3N1237 4N234689 } 18 Links = {1r4 1b13 2c1 2b3 3r24 4r24 5r134 6b3 7r234 8r24 } 3 elims 1r1c3 3r2c6 4r2c6 98.7.......7.6.5.......4.738..........2.4...5.....124.7..1....2.2...96....3.2..5.;cells truths/covers ;19;96;88;17; A B C |D E F |G H I 9 8 145 |7 135 235 |14 126 146 1234 134 7 |289 6 28 |5 1289 1489 1256 156 156 |2589 1589 4 |189 7 3 -------------------------------------------------------- 8 1345679 14569 |23569 3579 23567 |1379 1369 1679 136 13679 2 |3689 4 3678 |13789 13689 5 356 35679 569 |35689 35789 1 |2 4 6789 -------------------------------------------------------- 7 4569 45689 |1 358 3568 |3489 389 2 145 2 1458 |3458 3578 9 |6 138 1478 146 1469 3 |468 2 678 |14789 5 14789 rows 1 2 3 9 columns 1 2 3 9 SLG rank 0 19 Truths = {1N3789 2N124689 3N123 9N124679 } 19 Links = {1r9 1b13 2r123 3b1 4r129 5b1 6r139 7r9 8r29 9r29 } 3 elims 1r3c7 2r1c6 2r3c4 98.7.....6.....5....7.6..8.4...9..7...83..6.......2..1.7..8..4...94..3.......1..2;cells truths/covers ;21;95;10;10; A B C |D E F |G H I 9 8 12345 |7 12345 345 |124 1236 346 6 1234 1234 |1289 1234 3489 |5 1239 7 1235 12345 7 |125 6 3459 |1249 8 349 ------------------------------------------------ 4 12356 12356 |1568 9 568 |28 7 35 1257 1259 8 |3 1457 457 |6 259 459 357 3569 356 |568 457 2 |489 359 1 ------------------------------------------------ 1235 7 12356 |2569 8 3569 |19 4 569 125 1256 9 |4 257 567 |3 156 8 8 3456 3456 |569 35 1 |7 569 2 rows 2 5 6 9 columns 2 4 5 8 SLG rank 0 21 Truths = {2N23458 5N12568 6N123458 9N23458 } 21 Links = {1r25 2r25 3r269 4r29 4b5 5r569 6r69 7r56 8c4 9c248 } 5 elims 3r2c6 4r2c6 5r5c9 8r4c4 9r7c4 98.7.....6.....85...5.6...94...3...5..74..6.......2.1..5..7...3..43..5.......1.2.;cells truths/covers ;17;98;10;10; A B C |D E F |G H I 9 8 123 |7 1245 345 |1234 46 1246 6 12347 123 |129 1249 349 |8 5 1247 1237 12347 5 |128 6 348 |12347 47 9 ------------------------------------------------- 4 126 1268 |168 3 7 |29 89 5 1258 129 7 |4 1589 589 |6 3 28 358 369 3689 |5689 589 2 |47 1 47 ------------------------------------------------- 128 5 12689 |289 7 4689 |149 4689 3 1278 1269 4 |3 289 689 |5 6789 1678 378 3679 3689 |589 4589 1 |479 2 4678 rows 1 2 3 5 columns 3 5 8 9 SLG rank 0 17 Truths = {1N356789 2N34569 3N8 5N12569 } 17 Links = {1r125 2r125 3r12 4b23 5r15 6b3 7b3 8r5 9r25 } 6 elims 1r2c2 2r2c2 3r2c2 4r3c6 4r3c7 7r3c7 98.7.....6...5.8....4..6.7.5....4.9...93..4......2...1.9...8.4...65..7......1...2;cells truths/covers ;23;95;66;66; A B C |D E F |G H I 9 8 1235 |7 34 123 |12356 12356 3456 6 1237 1237 |1249 5 1239 |8 123 349 123 1235 4 |1289 389 6 |1235 7 359 -------------------------------------------------- 5 12367 12378 |168 678 4 |236 9 3678 1278 1267 9 |3 678 157 |4 2568 5678 3478 3467 378 |689 2 579 |356 3568 1 -------------------------------------------------- 1237 9 12357 |26 367 8 |1356 4 356 12348 1234 6 |5 349 239 |7 138 38 3478 3457 3578 |46 1 37 |9 3568 2 rows 2 6 8 9 columns 1 2 4 6 SLG rank 0 23 Truths = {2N23468 6N1234678 8N12689 9N123468 } 23 Links = {1r28 2r28 3r2689 4c124 5r69 6r69 7r269 8r689 9c46 } 3 elims 3r2c9 3r8c5 9r3c4 98.7.....6...5.8....4..8.7.5....4.9...39..4......2...1.9...6.4...65..7......1...2;cells truths/covers ;15;95;10;10; A B C |D E F |G H I 9 8 125 |7 346 123 |12356 1235 3456 6 1237 127 |1234 5 1239 |8 123 349 123 1235 4 |1236 369 8 |12356 7 3569 ------------------------------------------------ 5 1267 1278 |1368 3678 4 |236 9 3678 1278 1267 3 |9 678 157 |4 258 5678 478 467 9 |368 2 357 |356 358 1 ------------------------------------------------ 12378 9 1278 |238 378 6 |135 4 358 12348 1234 6 |5 3489 239 |7 138 38 3478 3457 578 |348 1 37 |9 6 2 rows 2 8 9 columns 1 2 4 6 SLG rank 0 15 Truths = {2N23468 8N12689 9N12346 } 15 Links = {1r28 2r28 3r289 4c4 4b7 5r9 7r29 8r89 9c6 } 3 elims 3r2c9 3r8c5 8r8c5 98.7.....6...9.7....7..5.9.7....4....6..3...2..86..5...2..5..1...69..8.......1..3;cells truths/covers ;13;99;99;66; A B C |D E F |G H I 9 8 12345 |7 1246 236 |12346 23456 1456 6 1345 12345 |12348 9 238 |7 23458 1458 1234 134 7 |12348 12468 5 |12346 9 1468 ---------------------------------------------------- 7 1359 12359 |1258 128 4 |1369 368 1689 145 6 1459 |158 3 789 |149 478 2 1234 1349 8 |6 127 279 |5 347 149 ---------------------------------------------------- 348 2 349 |348 5 3678 |469 1 4679 1345 13457 6 |9 247 237 |8 245 457 458 4579 459 |248 24678 1 |2469 2456 3 rows 5 7 9 columns 1 3 4 7 SLG rank 0 13 Truths = {5N1347 7N1347 9N13478 } 13 Links = {1r5 2r9 3r7 4r579 5r59 6b9 8c14 9c37 } 13 elims 2r9c5 3r7c6 4r5c8 4r7c9 4r9c2 4r9c5 5r9c2 6r7c9 8r2c4 8r3c4 8r4c4 9r4c3 9r4c7

by **JC Van Hay** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:32 am

champagne wrote:here a sample file of puzzles rating in the range 95_99
the entire file except the last one has a response using the r0 cells_base search and nothing using the RCX search.
The last one is reverse : no response with the cells-base search, but a RCX solution

may-be leren will have other results.

I am also interested in getting the rows/columns/boxes equivalence to the cells solution

Hope the following will help :

Hidden Text: Show

by **Leren** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:42 pm

Hi Champagne,

I've resolved the following 4 additional puzzles:

Hidden Text: Show

The solution was that you had apparently included Skyscrapers, Kites and Empty rectangles prior to the SLG's whereas I had only included basics - I'll look into the other puzzles tomorrow.

Also, for the following puzzle I put my solver into survey mode with the following results

Hidden Text: Show

Which SLG you see first depends on your solving order and the spread of the solving parameters you use - so might explain some of the differences between our results.

Leren

by **champagne** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:17 pm

JC Van Hay wrote:Hope the following will help :

Impressive answer in a very short time.

This is exactly what I hoped to get.

After a quick overview, several remarks or questions

1) we have the same eliminations except in one puzzle where you give 2 different r0 logic
2) what is exactly behind the word "loop"? Sometimes, it looks like another word for r0 logic.
3) Some of the r0 logic (as in a former lot) are well known patterns as "Sue de Coq" "als with double link". I guess it would be faster to find them using the appropriate pattern search. Reversely, it seems that without such a pattern you use the generic term "loop" (see point 2)

AFAIK, most of the task is hand made, is it still true or do you have now a slave to do the job for you?

by **champagne** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:26 pm

Leren wrote:I've resolved the following 4 additional puzzles:
The solution was that you had apparently included Skyscrapers, Kites and Empty rectangles prior to the SLG's whereas I had only included basics - I'll look into the other puzzles tomorrow.

I change the preliminary eliminations as I wrote earlier.
I added quads, XYWings, XYZWings and all "mono fish" eliminations in bloc. This include kites, but also more complex mono fish patterns.

Leren wrote:Which SLG you see first depends on your solving order and the spread of the solving parameters you use - so might explain some of the differences between our results.

that's quite clear, I just noticed that we don't work in the same order

by **Leren** » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:27 am

Hi Champagne,

The following are some MSLS solutions that have found for puzzle 98.7.......7.6.5.......4.738..........2.4...5.....124.7..1....2.2...96....3.2..5

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all: *--------------------------------------------------------------------------------* | 9 8 145 | 7 135 235 |#14 26-1 6-14 | | 134-2 134 7 |*289 6 #28 |*5 *1289 *1489 | | 1256 156 156 | 2589 1589 4 | 89-1 7 3 | |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------| | 8 1345679 14569 | 23569 3579 23567 | 1379 1369 1679 | | 136 13679 2 | 3689 4 3678 | 13789 13689 5 | | 356 35679 569 | 35689 35789 1 | 2 4 6789 | |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------| | 7 4569 45689 |*1 #358 #3568 |*3489 *389 *2 | | 145 2 1458 |*3458 #3578 9 |*6 *138 *1478 | | 146 1469 3 |*468 2 *678 |*14789 *5 *14789 | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

MSLS 1 : Base 14; c4789 r2789 + r1c7 r2c6 r7c5 r7c6 r8c5 r9c6 : 17 Links; 4c4 4c7 4c9 ; 289r2 3r7 37r8 7r9 ; 856b8 1b3 198b9 ; 5 Eliminations r1c89, r3c7 <> 1, r1c9 <> 4, r2c2 <> 2

Code: Select all: *--------------------------------------------------------------------------------* | 9 8 *145 |*7 *135 *235 |#14 26-1 6-14 | | 1234 134 *7 |*289 *6 *28 | 5 1289 1489 | | 2-156 #156 *156 |*2589 *1589 *4 | 89-1 7 3 | |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------| | 8 #1345679*14569 |*23569 *3579 *23567 |#1379 #1369 #1679 | | 136 13679 2 | 3689 4 3678 | 13789 13689 5 | | 356 35679 569 | 35689 35789 1 | 2 4 6789 | |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------| | 7 4569 45689 | 1 358 3568 | 3489 389 2 | | 145 2 1458 | 3458 3578 9 | 6 138 1478 | | 146 1469 3 | 468 2 678 | 14789 5 14789 | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

MSLS 1 : Base 28; c3456 r1234 + r1c7 r3c2 r4c2 r4c7 r4c8 r4c9 : 18 Links; 2c4 2c6 ; 1345r1 156r3 1345679r4 ; 89b2 ; 7 Eliminations r1c89, r3c17 <> 1, r1c9 <> 4, r3c1 <> 56

Code: Select all: *--------------------------------------------------------------------------------* |*9 *8 *145 | 7 135 235 |#14 2-16 *146 | |*1234 *134 *7 |#289 6 #28 | 5 #1289 *1489 | |*1256 *156 *156 | 589-2 1589 4 | 89-1 7 *3 | |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------| | 8 1345679 14569 | 23569 3579 23567 | 1379 1369 1679 | | 136 13679 2 | 3689 4 3678 | 13789 13689 5 | | 356 35679 569 | 35689 35789 1 | 2 4 6789 | |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------| | 7 4569 45689 | 1 358 3568 | 3489 389 2 | | 145 2 1458 | 3458 3578 9 | 6 138 1478 | |*146 *1469 *3 |#468 2 #678 |#14789 5 *14789 | *--------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

MSLS 1 : Base 35; c1239 r1239 + r1c7 r2c4 r2c6 r2c8 r9c4 r9c6 r9c7 : 18 Links; ; 46r1 2489r2 26r3 146789r9 ; 531b1 1b3 ; 4 Eliminations r1c8 <> 16, r3c4 <> 2, r3c7 <> 1

The third of these is almost the same as your solution but has one less link and one more elimination.

Leren

by **Leren** » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:46 am

Hi Champagne, my versions of the last 2 unsolved (for me) puzzles in your list

Hidden Text: Show

My MSLS solution for the above puzzle was slightly different to yours but had the same eliminations.

Hidden Text: Show

Thanks to JCVH for showing me the probable MSLS solution for the above puzzle - it speeded up the search process considerably.

BTW the eliminations for the MSLS move are close to those for the following Inverted W Wing loop for the same puzzle:

Hidden Text: Show

Unfortunately my MSLS code is much too slow for this method to be of more than academic interest when the MSLS grid contains a large number of solved/given cells
(up to 6 in some of these examples) and lots of extra cells to complete a Rank 0 logic. Nevertheless I enjoyed the challenge of finding MSLS moves in all puzzles.

Leren

by **champagne** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:02 pm

a challenge for our experts in rank 0 logic

here a list of puzzles having likely the following properties

no Rank 0 logic found by my solver
A multi fish of 4 digits seems self solved (danny should find the same with the templates view)

As these puzzles have a minimum rating diamond 10.3 or more, the next move using chains nets should be complex;

Is there a rank 0 logic (several) to find

each file has the following content

puzzle;sequence number,family code;id code;number of eliminations found; digits of the multi fish.

(to danny, the count for eliminations out of the multi fish is a rough estimate, the true count could be sligthly different )

Hidden Text: Show

........1.....2.3...2.415....67......2..6.4..4.58...1..5......9.61......2...561..;795163;DOB;13_01;167;3789
..............1.23..1.245....67......1..6.2..2.58....4.5.....9..64......1...564..;796873;DOB;13_01;161;3789
........1.....2.....3.4.56......7.8...6.9.3...248..9....9....53.4...96..6...5....;371650;dob;12_12_03;160;1278
........1....23....245...3....4.......5...6...73..5.4..4..5..7.8....4...9..7.23..;394297;dob;12_12_03;160;1689
........1..2..3....4..5..2.....26.5..5..4..7.8.9........45...6...7.6.2...6....7.5;394298;dob;12_12_03;160;1389
..............1..2..2.3..45..3...6...2..4..3.4.7..58...3.9......75......2...5..73;394207;dob;12_12_03;159;1689
..............1..2..2.3..45..3...6...2..4..7.4.73.58...3.9......75......2...5..37;755858;dob;12_12_19;159;1689
........1.....2.....3.4..5......3.6...46..5...6..5.7.4..5.3..7.2...6..4.89......5;418484;dob;12_12_03;158;1289
..............1..2..3.4..15......6....14...37.8..7...1..5..4.7..3..5.9.42..73...6;246934;dob;12_12_03;158;2689
........1.....2.....3.4..5.....6.5.3..54..6...6.7...4...4.7..3.1...5..6.89...4...;322025;dob;12_12_03;158;1289
...........1..2..3.2..3..45....2.6...4.3...7.2.5.748.....75.....5...3.279........;836687;DOB;13_01;156;1689
...........1..2..3.2..3..45......6...4.3...7.2.5.748.....75.....5...3.279..2.....;833229;DOB;13_01;156;1689
..............1.23..2.345.....6.......3.27.5..8...37.....9.54....4.7...51....627.;759669;dob;12_12_19;156;1689
..............1.23.23.4.5........2...46.2...72..8..6...5..7..6..74.....59..4..7..;806854;DOB;13_01;155;1389
98.7..6..7..5..4....3.6....8..9...4..5.....6...9.568...9.6..7....7..2.1..........;1067551;GP;13_07;155;1234
98.7..6..7..5..4....3.6....8..9...4..5.....6...9.568...9.6..7....7..2..........1.;991824;GP;13_03;154;1234
........1....23....245...3....4.......5...6...73..5.4..4..5..7.8....4...9..7.2..3;795178;DOB;13_01;154;1689
........1..2..3....3..4..5....6.7....5.....38.9..5..4..8...45..3....9.8.9.5.8....;795179;DOB;13_01;154;1267
98.76.54.7...3...6.....5.2.4..3..69..37.....4....4....3...7...9..4...8.....1.....;1052456;GP;13_07;154;1258
........1.....2.....3.4.56......7.8...6.9.3...248..9....9....534....96..6...5....;694333;dob;12_12_19;154;1278

by **daj95376** » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:19 pm

champagne wrote:A multi fish of 4 digits seems self solved (danny should find the same with the templates view)

My templates solver is very limited when it comes to multi-fish. However, it did report that all of champagne's puzzles were limited to 1/2/3 template combinations for the values provided. In the case of one template combination, it solves champagne's values in the puzzle.

Here's champagne's original list with <n> indicating the number of template combinations for champagne's 4-tuple.

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all: ........1.....2.3...2.415....67......2..6.4..4.58...1..5......9.61......2...561..#795163;DOB;13_01;167;3789 <1> ..............1.23..1.245....67......1..6.2..2.58....4.5.....9..64......1...564..#796873;DOB;13_01;161;3789 <1> ........1.....2.....3.4.56......7.8...6.9.3...248..9....9....53.4...96..6...5....#371650;dob;12_12_03;160;1278 <1> ........1....23....245...3....4.......5...6...73..5.4..4..5..7.8....4...9..7.23..#394297;dob;12_12_03;160;1689 <1> ........1..2..3....4..5..2.....26.5..5..4..7.8.9........45...6...7.6.2...6....7.5#394298;dob;12_12_03;160;1389 <1> ..............1..2..2.3..45..3...6...2..4..3.4.7..58...3.9......75......2...5..73#394207;dob;12_12_03;159;1689 <2> ..............1..2..2.3..45..3...6...2..4..7.4.73.58...3.9......75......2...5..37#755858;dob;12_12_19;159;1689 <2> ........1.....2.....3.4..5......3.6...46..5...6..5.7.4..5.3..7.2...6..4.89......5#418484;dob;12_12_03;158;1289 <1> ..............1..2..3.4..15......6....14...37.8..7...1..5..4.7..3..5.9.42..73...6#246934;dob;12_12_03;158;2689 <1> ........1.....2.....3.4..5.....6.5.3..54..6...6.7...4...4.7..3.1...5..6.89...4...#322025;dob;12_12_03;158;1289 <1> ...........1..2..3.2..3..45....2.6...4.3...7.2.5.748.....75.....5...3.279........#836687;DOB;13_01;156;1689 <2> ...........1..2..3.2..3..45......6...4.3...7.2.5.748.....75.....5...3.279..2.....#833229;DOB;13_01;156;1689 <2> ..............1.23..2.345.....6.......3.27.5..8...37.....9.54....4.7...51....627.#759669;dob;12_12_19;156;1689 <1> ..............1.23.23.4.5........2...46.2...72..8..6...5..7..6..74.....59..4..7..#806854;DOB;13_01;155;1389 <3> 98.7..6..7..5..4....3.6....8..9...4..5.....6...9.568...9.6..7....7..2.1..........#1067551;GP;13_07;155;1234 <3> 98.7..6..7..5..4....3.6....8..9...4..5.....6...9.568...9.6..7....7..2..........1.#991824;GP;13_03;154;1234 <3> ........1....23....245...3....4.......5...6...73..5.4..4..5..7.8....4...9..7.2..3#795178;DOB;13_01;154;1689 <1> ........1..2..3....3..4..5....6.7....5.....38.9..5..4..8...45..3....9.8.9.5.8....#795179;DOB;13_01;154;1267 <1> 98.76.54.7...3...6.....5.2.4..3..69..37.....4....4....3...7...9..4...8.....1.....#1052456;GP;13_07;154;1258 <1> ........1.....2.....3.4.56......7.8...6.9.3...248..9....9....534....96..6...5....#694333;dob;12_12_19;154;1278 <1>

Here's my Template solver's output for champagne's values in the first puzzle.

Hidden Text: Show

Code: Select all: Puzzle #1: ........1.....2.3...2.415....67......2..6.4..4.58...1..5......9.61......2...561.. +-----------------------+ | . . . | . . . | . . 1 | | . . . | . . 2 | . 3 . | | . . 2 | . 4 1 | 5 . . | |-------+-------+-------| | . . 6 | 7 . . | . . . | | . 2 . | . 6 . | 4 . . | | 4 . 5 | 8 . . | . 1 . | |-------+-------+-------| | . 5 . | . . . | . . 9 | | . 6 1 | . . . | . . . | | 2 . . | . 5 6 | 1 . . | +-----------------------+ c5b5 Locked Candidate 1 <> 2 r78c5 r5 b5 Locked Candidate 1 <> 5 r5c89 +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 356789 34789 34789 | 3569 3789 35789 | 26789 246789 1 | | 156789 14789 4789 | 569 789 2 | 6789 3 4678 | | 36789 3789 2 | 369 4 1 | 5 6789 678 | |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------| | 1389 1389 6 | 7 1239 4 | 2389 2589 2358 | | 13789 2 3789 | 1359 6 359 | 4 789 378 | | 4 379 5 | 8 239 39 | 23679 1 2367 | |--------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------| | 378 5 3478 | 1234 1378 378 | 23678 24678 9 | | 3789 6 1 | 2349 3789 3789 | 2378 24578 234578 | | 2 34789 34789 | 349 5 6 | 1 478 3478 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ # 174 eliminations remain Templates: 3 11 217 10 6 12 140 226 166 <3789> accepted = 1 template combinations <3789> <>3 r1c12456,r3c12,r4c1259,r5c1349,r6c5679,r7c13467,r8c45679,r9c234 <3789> <>7 r1c123568,r2c12379,r3c189,r5c189,r6c27,r7c35678,r8c15789,r9c239 <3789> <>8 r1c123678,r2c12579,r3c129,r4c2789,r5c138,r7c13578,r8c15689,r9c389 <3789> <>9 r1c1235678,r2c12345,r3c248,r4c1578,r5c1346,r6c257,r8c146,r9c24 <3789> <>1 r4c12,r7c5 <3789> <>2 r148c7,r6c9 <3789> <>4 r1c3,r2c3,r9c2389 <3789> <>5 r1c4,r5c6 <3789> <>6 r1c47,r2c7,r3c148,r6c9 <3789> r1c3457,r2c357,r3c1248,r4c127,r5c3689,r6c269,r7c156,r8c1567,r9c2389 locked for candidates

by **JC Van Hay** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:30 am

Solution of the puzzle #1 : ........1.....2.3...2.415....67......2..6.4..4.58...1..5......9.61......2...561..;795163;DOB;13_01;167;3789

#1. r4c6=4; UP24; LC(2C4,5R4) :=> -2r78c5,-5r5c89
#2. Analysis of AALS(3789)r78c1 :

r7or8c1=3->Swordfish(3R39C3) :=> -3r5c49
||
r7or8c1=7->LC(7B8)+Kite(7R3c7) :=> r5c3=7
||
r7or8c1=8->LC(8B8)+Kite(8R3C7) :=> r5c3=8
||
r8c1=9->NQ(3569)r1239c4; UP29; Skyscraper(9R35) :=> r5c3=9

-> r7or8c1=3, r5c3<>3 :=> r5c6=3; UP46; NP(78)r7c16

#3. Jellyfish(7R3569) :=> -7r12c3
#4. Jellyfish(8R3478) :=> -8r12c7
#5. Swordfish(8C279) :=> -8r9c8; UP81

by **champagne** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:40 am

JC Van Hay wrote:Solution of the puzzle #1 : ........1.....2.3...2.415....67......2..6.4..4.58...1..5......9.61......2...561..;795163;DOB;13_01;167;3789
#2. Analysis of AALS(3789)r78c1 :

r7or8c1=3->Swordfish(3R39C3) :=> -3r5c49
||
r7or8c1=7->LC(7B8)+Kite(7R3c7) :=> r5c3=7
||
r7or8c1=8->LC(8B8)+Kite(8R3C7) :=> r5c3=8
||
r8c1=9->NQ(3569)r1239c4; UP29; Skyscraper(9R35) :=> r5c3=9

-> r7or8c1=3, r5c3<>3 :=> r5c6=3; UP46; NP(78)r7c16

Hi JC,

I am trying to decipher your point #2 to see what would be the corresponding sets/links.

I am in trouble in several points. Could you post your PM at the start of your AALS analysis.

(among others, I don't see your swordfish nor your Naked Quad.)

BTW, with the use of the 3569 quad, IMO this would not be qualified as a 3789 multi fish solution

by **JC Van Hay** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:51 pm

champagne wrote:
JC Van Hay wrote:Solution of the puzzle #1 : ........1.....2.3...2.415....67......2..6.4..4.58...1..5......9.61......2...561..;795163;DOB;13_01;167;3789
#2. Analysis of AALS(3789)r78c1 :

r7or8c1=3->Swordfish(3R39C3) :=> -3r5c49
||
r7or8c1=7->LC(7B8)+Kite(7R3c7) :=> r5c3=7
||
r7or8c1=8->LC(8B8)+Kite(8R3C7) :=> r5c3=8
||
r8c1=9->NQ(3569)r1239c4; UP29; Skyscraper(9R35) :=> r5c3=9

-> r7or8c1=3, r5c3<>3 :=> r5c6=3; UP46; NP(78)r7c16

Hi JC,

I am trying to decipher your point #2 to see what would be the corresponding sets/links.

I am in trouble in several points. Could you post your PM at the start of your AALS analysis.

(among others, I don't see your swordfish nor your Naked Quad.)

BTW, with the use of the 3569 quad, IMO this would not be qualified as a 3789 multi fish solution

Hi Champagne,
I didn't see a multi-fish on 3789. Therefore I concentrated on a solution of the puzzle as in any puzzle containing an exocet. Here (6789)r3c89, (3478)r7c13, (3789)r78c1 are "potential ones".
While reviewing the solution of the puzzle #1, I noticed that I missed the more obvious conclusion of the analysis of the AALS(3789)r78c1, to wit r7or8c1=3, r5c3<>3 :=> r1c3=3 and UP50

.
As for the base/cover sets of #2., here it is :

Code: Select all: +------------------------------+------------------------+-------------------------+ | 56789-3 34789 34789 | (3569) 3789 35789 | 269(78) 246789 1 | | 156789 14789 4789 | (569) 789 2 | 69(78) 3 4678 | | 6-3(789) 3(789) 2 | (369) 4 1 | 5 6(789) 6(78) | +------------------------------+------------------------+-------------------------+ | 1-3(89) 13(89) 6 | 7 1239 4 | 239(8) 2589 2358 | | 1-3(789) 2 -3(789) | 13(59) 6 3(59) | 4 78(9) 378 | | 4 3(79) 5 | 8 239 39 | 2369(7) 1 2367 | +------------------------------+------------------------+-------------------------+ | (378) 5 478-3 | 1234 13(78) 3(78) | 236(78) 24678 9 | | (3789) 6 1 | 2349 39(78) 39(78) | 23(78) 24578 234578 | | 2 478-3(9) 478-3(9) | 34(9) 5 6 | 1 478 3478 | +------------------------------+------------------------+-------------------------+

18 Truths = {5R5 7R3 8R3 9R359 78C7 78N1 123N4 789B4 78B8}
24 Links = {7r678 8r478 3c1 5c4 7c12 8c12 9c1248 5n36 3b27 6b2 7b3 8b3 9b7}
8 Eliminations --> r1345c1<>3, r579c3<>3, r9c2<>3

On the other hand,

Swordfish(3R39C3) : r5c3=r1c3-r3c2=r3c4-r9c4=r9c9 :=> -3r5c49
Kite(7R3c7) : r6c7=r12c7-r3c89=r3c2 :=> -7r6c2 :=> r5c3=7
Kite(8R3C7) : r4c7=r12c7-r3c89=r3c2 :=> -8r4c2 :=> r5c3=8
NQ(3569)... : 9r8c1-[9r35c1# & 9r9c23=9r9c4-(9#=356)r123c4-5r5c4#=(5-9#)r4c6]=#Skyscraper(9R35)-9r46c2=9r5c3

Final comments :

I wrote #2. in a very condensed way in order to show explicitly its most important characteristics. Otherwise, it would have been overly complicated.
In this puzzle, it is as if the "target" were a single cell instead of two as in an ordinary exocet !?
I didn't look at the solutions of all the other puzzles, but the solution of #991824 is interesting as r89c2<>NP(34) gives rise to a very fast contradiction in all cases. After that, sk-basics solve the puzzle.

by **daj95376** » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:47 pm

JC Van Hay wrote:Solution of the puzzle #1 :

........1.....2.3...2.415....67......2..6.4..4.58...1..5......9.61......2...561..;795163;DOB;13_01;167;3789

#1. r4c6=4; UP24; LC(2C4,5R4) :=> -2r78c5,-5r5c89
#2. Analysis of AALS(3789)r78c1 :

r7or8c1=3->Swordfish(3R39C3) :=> -3r5c49
||
r7or8c1=7->LC(7B9)+Kite(7R3c7) :=> r5c3=7
||
r7or8c1=8->LC(8B9)+Kite(8R3C7) :=> r5c3=8
||
r8c1=9->r9c4=9; NT(356)r123c4; UP29; Skyscraper(9R35) :=> r5c3=9

-> r7or8c1=3, r5c3<>3 :=> r5c6=3; UP46; NP(78)r7c16

#3. Jellyfish(7R3569) :=> -7r12c3
#4. Jellyfish(8R3478) :=> -8r12c7
#5. Swordfish(8C279) :=> -8r9c8; UP81

I made a couple of corrections and changes to step #2.

Note: I already have r1c3<>7 after step #2.

Code: Select all: after the dust clears from step #2 *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | 6789 4 3 | 69 78 5 | 26789 26789 1 | | 5 1 789 | 69 78 2 | 6789 3 4 | | 6789 789 2 | 3 4 1 | 5 6789 678 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 89 389 6 | 7 1 4 | 389 5 2 | | 1 2 789 | 5 6 3 | 4 789 78 | | 4 37 5 | 8 2 9 | 367 1 67 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 78 5 4 | 1 3 78 | 26 26 9 | | 3 6 1 | 2 9 78 | 78 4 5 | | 2 789 789 | 4 5 6 | 1 78 3 | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

It would have been nice if you'd included the cover sets for #3..#5, because I can't get your base set for #3 to work with my grid.

You miss the Eureka! forum ... don't you! _ :lol:

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