daj95376 wrote:I believe David was looking for a productive example of this form of JExocet. I'm sorry if another example has already been posted.
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Puzzle: 182;elev;L14;1;2;r8c3 r9c3 r1c2 r5c2
1....6.8....7....3....2.4....5.4....6....8.5....3..2....8..1.9..1......796.......
#8361;TkP;4473;1;2;r1c4 r1c6 r2c3 r2c7
000000000000281000002706100000009005006010800040000030001070200300000009250000040
+---------------------------+-----------------------+---------------------------+
| 1456789 136789 78(3459) | (3459) (3459) (345) | 67(3459) 256789 234678 |
| 45679 3679 -7(3459) | 2 8 1 | -67(3459) 5679 3467 |
| 4589 389 2 | 7 (3459) 6 | 1 589 348 |
+---------------------------+-----------------------+---------------------------+
| 178 12378 78(3) | 3468 26(34) 9 | 67(4) 1267 5 |
| 579 2379 6 | 345 1 23457 | 8 279 247 |
| 15789 4 78(59) | 568 26(5) 2578 | 67(9) 3 1267 |
+---------------------------+-----------------------+---------------------------+
| 4689 689 1 | 345689 7 3458 | 2 568 368 |
| 3 678 78(4) | 14568 26(45) 2458 | 67(5) 15678 9 |
| 2 5 78(9) | 13689 6(39) 38 | 67(3) 4 13678 |
+---------------------------+-----------------------+---------------------------+
14 Truths = {3459C3 3459C5 3459C7 1N46}
18 Links = {3459r1 34r4 59r6 45r8 39r9 2n37 3459b2}
3 Eliminations --> r2c37<>7, r2c7<>6
David P Bird wrote:Danny, Well done! You've proved that they can exist and that the target cells can see each other! Did you find the puzzle in one of champagne's collections?
David P Bird wrote:It contains an Almost SK Loop that produces a set of eliminations that include the two JExcocet target cells.
r4c47,r6c59,r8c457 <> 2347, r1c23,r5c23,r9c68 <> 15689
but where exactly one of these elimination cells is invalid.
(J)Exocet w/aligned target cells and no eliminations
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| B1234 . B1234 | . . . | . . . |
| . . . | / . . | / . . |
| . . . | T1234 . . | T1234 . . |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
(J)Exocet w/diagonal target cells and no eliminations
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| B1234 . B1234 | . . . | . . . |
| . . . | T1234 . . | / . . |
| . . . | / . . | T1234 . . |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
(J)Exocet w/aligned target cells and eliminations
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| B1234 . B1234 | . . . | . . . |
| . . . | / . . | / . . |
| . . . | T12345 . . | T12346 . . |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
r3c4<>5, r3c7<>6
(J)Exocet w/diagonal target cells and eliminations
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| B1234 . B1234 | . . . | . . . |
| . . . | T12345 . . | / . . |
| . . . | / . . | T12346 . . |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
r2c4<>5, r3c7<>6
(J)Exocet w/diagonal target cells and 1x secondary dependency
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| B1234 . B1234 | . . . | . . . |
| . . . | T12345 / S1237 | / . . |
| . . . | / . . | T12346 . . |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
r2c4<>5, r3c7<>6 ; r2c6<>7, r3c7<>4
(J)Exocet w/diagonal target cells and 2x secondary dependency
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| B1234 . B1234 | . . . | . . . |
| . . . | T12345 / S1237 | / . . |
| . . . | / . . | T12346 / S2348 |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
r2c4<>5, r3c7<>6 ; r2c6<>7, r3c7<>4 ; r2c4<>1, r3c9<>8
daj95376 wrote:If only one of these "single" (J)Exocet patterns exist in a chute, and it's one w/o any eliminations, is it a noteworthy (J)Exocet? The reason I ask is because I plan to filter puzzles from Champagne's file into a file for each category -- except those w/o eliminations, which I plan to discard.
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(J)Exocet w/diagonal target cells and no eliminations
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| B1234 . B1234 | . . . | . . . |
| . . . | T1234 . . | / . . |
| . . . | / . . | T1234 . . |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
daj95376 wrote:If only one of these "single" (J)Exocet patterns exist in a chute, and it's one w/o any eliminations, is it a noteworthy (J)Exocet? The reason I ask is because I plan to filter puzzles from Champagne's file into a file for each category -- except those w/o eliminations, which I plan to discard.
- Code: Select all
(J)Exocet w/diagonal target cells and no eliminations
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
| B1234 . B1234 | . . . | . . . |
| . . . | T1234 . . | / . . |
| . . . | / . . | T1234 . . |
|-------------------+-------------------+-------------------|
ronk wrote:Also, I wonder if his search allowed for one of the exocet digits to be missing from both target cells. For example, if r2c4<>4 and r3c7<>4, then r1c12<>4 as well as r2c4=123, and r3c7=123.
champagne wrote:The program as it is requires that the union of the potential target studied contains all the base digits.
David P Bird wrote:champagne wrote:The program as it is requires that the union of the potential target studied contains all the base digits.
Have you a logical reason for that requirement?
DPB
champagne wrote:Seen the speed of the new process, it would not be a big problem to open the search.
David P Bird wrote:champagne wrote:Seen the speed of the new process, it would not be a big problem to open the search.
I think that would be worth doing - it might be similar to targets seeing each other which seems to be rare but possible.
If the base digits hold (abcd) and the targets hold (abx) and (bcx), then if JExcocet condition 3) holds for [abc] then (d) can be eliminated from the base cells.
DPB
champagne wrote:In your example, just assume the base is ok for a;d
then the target will contain 'a' + any of the other digits.
I don't see that we have established more.
David P Bird wrote:The only inference that exists (when (abc) all pass condition 3) is that the two target cells can't both hold non-members.
champagne wrote:... direct elimination is one property of the exocet ..., but we have already many examples showing what to do after direct eliminations.
On my website, there is an old (2 years old) description of a solution for fata morgana
ronk wrote:champagne wrote:... direct elimination is one property of the exocet ..., but we have already many examples showing what to do after direct eliminations.
On my website, there is an old (2 years old) description of a solution for fata morgana
What does a total solution to Fata Morgana have to do with this topic? We don't even know if the few exclusions, the very few exclusions, produced by an exocet pattern [ed: usually] lowers the Explainer difficulty rating.