The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[Pyrrhon]

Days ago I asked for an idea of a linear sudoku. There wasn't any answer. Here now is a new almost linear sudoku variant.

Fill in the grid so that both lines (the column and the S-form) contain the digits 1 through 9. There are no neighbouring cells with consecutive digits.

You can solve it by logic (I hope).



And here is another new and almost linear variant. I call it Tape Sudoku.

Fill in the grid so that it contains the digits 1 through 6 three times each. There are no neighbouring cells with the same or with consecutive digits.

[quixote]

Pray that you can post less trivial stuff next time.

[Smythe Dakota]

Oh come now, quixote. Once in a while we need a breather.

These weren't the hardest puzzles in the world, but solving them called for (or at least was helped out by) an uncommon piece of logic here and there.

More power to these kinds of variants.

Bill Smythe

[quixote]

I agree with you we need a breather once in a while, but too much breather can make one's brains lax and lazy. So far he has posted trivial puzzles, and the latest ones can even be classified as childish stuff. Let's see what he is capable of in the next round.

[udosuk]

I agree with you we need a breather once in a while, but too much breather can make one's brains lax and lazy. So far he has posted trivial puzzles, and the latest ones can even be classified as childish stuff. Let's see what he is capable of in the next round.

Have you EVER visited Pyrrhon's website?
For a receiver of FREE puzzles you surely sound like a tough customer to serve...

[quixote]

Have you EVER visited a shop in a Third World market? Inside such a shop, you will find a lot of bargains with famous brand names from France, Italy, Britain and America. But if you are the type who shops and shops until you drop, it will not be able to escape from your expert eyes that most of the so-called famous brands are fakes.

The same goes with Pyrrhon's website or "Wiedemann's shop". Although most of them are stamped with famous labels like "Sudoku X" and "Navigator Sudoku", they are not created by the hands of the original inventors. The uninitiated will get the impression that they have gotten the real things since they are attached with copyrights without permission and without crediting the sources.

What you think you can get free from "Wiedemann's shop", you might as well go to the original shops to get the real goods. Unlike the high-class watches, electronic goods, leather shoes and bags, you can also get them free from the original source. If you also want to set up a shop to start business like Wiedemann, you can also get the real puzzles from the original websites provided you have the civilised courtesy of the First World to ask for permission first and credit the original sources.

[udosuk]

Have you EVER visited a shop in a Third World market? Inside such a shop, you will find a lot of bargains with famous brand names from France, Italy, Britain and America. But if you are the type who shops and shops until you drop, it will not be able to escape from your expert eyes that most of the so-called famous brands are fakes.

The same goes with Pyrrhon's website or "Wiedemann's shop". Although most of them are stamped with famous labels like "Sudoku X" and "Navigator Sudoku", they are not created by the hands of the original inventors. The uninitiated will get the impression that they have gotten the real things since they are attached with copyrights without permission and without crediting the sources.

What you think you can get free from "Wiedemann's shop", you might as well go to the original shops to get the real goods. Unlike the high-class watches, electronic goods, leather shoes and bags, you can also get them free from the original source. If you also want to set up a shop to start business like Wiedemann, you can also get the real puzzles from the original websites provided you have the civilised courtesy of the First World to ask for permission first and credit the original sources.

I'm not aware that the "original inventors" of those puzzles have obtained the patents/copyright for the format... Can you provide solid legal evidence that they have done so to support you arguments? Is the format of Sudoku copyrighted? And for Killer Sudoku/Sudoku X/Consecutive Sudoku etc. (I mean the puzzle concepts not the mere names)? If they're then the thousands/millions of members from this forum and other forums have been breaking the laws for ages! And why would you want to single out Mr. Wiedemann out now?

And to claim someone's puzzles being "fake" is a serious accusation. As far as I know he designed the layouts of the clues by himself and didn't nick it from another site. Most of the puzzles are valid puzzles with unique solutions, and the invalid ones are quickly replaced/removed. Some of the pics could be not too attractive, but as intellectuals we're interested in the concept not the physical appearance... I don't see what makes the puzzles "fake" just because the formats aren't invented by him...

A Chinese market shop selling "fake" Louis Vuitton handbags made of cheap pig leather is a crime. They do it to earn money (illegally). People buy them (who are aware they're fake) because they can't afford the real thing. People who aren't aware they're fake and paying money thinking they're the real things are being conned. It's immoral and the owners of the "real brands" lose profit because of that.

The situation is so different here for any analogy. Pyrrhon didn't ask you any money for his puzzles. The original inventors of the formats didn't ask us to pay for theirs either (according to you), so it's not like they're getting ripped off (financially). There is no financial conflict.

The reason he attached the copyright thingy is (I guess) because somebody else is directly linking his images for profit etc, and he's getting ripped off for both his time/effort to produce those images and the bandwidth load of his website. I'm not 100% sure but that's mostly the case why people attach copyright lines on images they create. I think most intellectual puzzlers realise that the copyright applies directly to the image and not the general format of the puzzles. Anyhow I don't see Pyrrhon getting any profit maliciously from that copyright tag...

Puzzle creators like Pyrrhon/Ruud/Djape and many unherald souls here provide free puzzles using their own time/bandwidth to give us entertainment and opportunities to exercise our intelligence... I think it's an utterly ungrateful act to complain about the difficulties/qualities of their puzzles or accusing them of unlawful offences without any solid legal evidence...

[HATMAN]

quixote

I am not going to be as polite as Udosuk:

Die quietly

[Pyrrhon]

Unfortunately here is started a discussion that we had already on another place.

At first, all puzzles at my side are made by myself. This is marked by a copyright note aside of each puzzle. But I have not invented all variants. I have not claimed elsewhere another thing and I think nobody has thought that I claim to be the inventor of sudoku x or killer sudoku. You can find (if exist) links to the first puzzles of a variant I saw at the link page. But in many cases it is unknown who invented a special variant. The attempt to add historical remarks to variants had leaded to many confusions, emails, clarifications ... So I decided to delete the historical remarks after a short time. In many cases somebody claims to be the inventor but he/she only re-invented the variant or invented a sub-variant of another one. See for example the many examples where somebody claims to have invented the variant we call disjoint group sudoku. I've never seen a variant page, a puzzle magazine (and they publish there puzzles for sale) or a sudoku forum where aside of a sudoku X, consecutive sudoku, samurai sudoku… you can read who invented this variant. Why should it be in another way with variants the anonymous quixote or somebody in his/her near invented?

There are no copyright infringments on my page, at least no I'm aware of. Puzzle variants can't be copyrighted, neither the names nor the idea. A short look at the copyright laws or at pages about them will show this. So names like "sudoku x", "killer sudoku", "even odd sudoku", "navigator sudoku" ... are as all other names not copyrighted but in the public domain. They could be trademarked like "sudoku" in Japan but this is not a copyright issue. I know from no puzzle at my page that the name I use is a trademark. So the names are like "butter" or "milk" in a shop not like a brand. If I would guess or know that a name is trademarked I wouldn't use it.

The only think where copyiright infringments could apply in the context of sudoku variants are the drawings. The hurdle is orginality. But what this is in our context. Can Henry Kwok use symbols or numbers between cells in the puzzle variants he calls duplex sum sudoku, corner squad sudoku, duplex plex sudoku, pole star sudoku … or numbers in cells like in intersection sums sudoku where we can found this in japanese puzzle magazines years before? Can I use dices in a sudoku where Cihan Altay used them before me? Can I use arrows or chess pieces or hexagonal cells where other puzzles took arrows and chess pieces or hexagonal cells before? I would say yes.

Pyrrhon

[HATMAN]

Pyrron

Totally on line with you. I came up with the KiMo idea, but maybe someone somewhere in Japan had tried it out before and got nowhere.

All that maters to me is whether interesting puzzles can be made in that (or indeed any other) mode.

[quixote]

Dear Wiedemann, can you tell everybody here what you did as far back as 1999? Lest you have forgotten all about it, just go to this website http://www.fmag.unict.it/~polphil/PolPhil/Disclaimer.html
which contains a "disclaimer" statement disclosing that you had lifted extensive excerpts of philosophical materials from a website containing Polish philosophy.

The "disclaimer" statement says:

"The site www.philosophenlexicon.de , whose author and webmaster is Uwe Wiedemann, contains extensive excerpts lifted from the PPP, namely from the biography of Lesniewski, which is the most comprehensive and detailed biography currently available. What he publishes is a mere translation into German - as everyone can ascertain by comparing the two versions - without permission and without crediting the source. Mr Wiedemann has so far failed to respond to our letter of 24 October, 1999, in which we kindly requested that he either quote the source or set up a link to the PPP. Furthermore, we have reasons to believe that Mr Wiedemann continues to commercialize PPP material, along with other material, in the form of a CD-Rom. This is not what we understand by cooperation, though. Had Mr Wiedemann contacted us, we would have provided a link from the Lesniewski page to his German version - Pyrrhon is a kind of encyclopedia of analytical philosophy with useful, short biographies and entries in German, and rather large."

[Pyrrhon]

Do we change the topic? If you would have looked at the Lesniewski-Page you would have seen that the sources are given at this page and so is made what they had ask for since a long time.

Pyrrhon

[udosuk]

quixote, perhaps you like writing bad things about others and enjoy making other people look bad by digging out old stories and establishing bad reputations on them... I sincerely suggest you to look for a job as paparazzi in a London tabloid or such instead of wasting your time here... Because frankly I (and I suspect many others) come to this forum for logical puzzles and not to delve into other people's past or hear gossips about them...

[quixote]

While cruising the Internet, I discovered something very very interesting and informative too. In the website http://www.hexapuzzle.com/sudokuvariants/ I found the following information. I expect many other website owners will follow suit in the future, and the copycat will be hiding his face.

Who can guess the identity of the copycat? You can take it as another interesting puzzle though no prize will be given away.

The text on the main page of that website is as follows:

"Welcome to the world of Sudoku Variants
If you like Sudoku, you will be a Sudoku Variant Fan...

Welcome to the world of Sudoku Variants. You can find 15 different types of Sudoku developed by a Hungarian puzzle maker. Sit back and relax. Enjoy the game. Please read the instructions carefully. You can also find some useful hints in the descriptions. If you enjoy Sudoku Variants please offer our website to your friends and sign to our guestbook.

We wish you success for the puzzles. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

Someone in Germany started to copy my Sudoku Variants. He also marked them with his copyright. I have several proof thet Sudoku Variants is developed by me. You can see the proofs by clicking the links.

-Document from Artisjus - representatve of international copyright organisation
-The cover page of the Sudoku Variants booklet sent to copyright registration
-The seal by Artisjus Placed on the envelope contains the oroginal copy of Sudoku Variants
-The backpage of the envelop The text 'Műpéldány' means Original Copy "

[emm]

This smacks of a personal vendetta. One thing that strikes me is that if you're going to make allegations then it's dishonourable to hide behind a pseudonym. If you're happy to bandy Uwe's name about, then he should know who you are. For all we know, you might be as mad as your namesake.