The New Sudoku Players' Forum

[keith]

Every day we see messages posted with a move or two, and then (a smug) "stte".

I suppose they are saying "singles to the end", but that's not what they mean.

Maybe they mean "locked singles to the end", which includes:

Forced cell: The only value this cell can have.
Pinned cell: The only value this cell can have in its house (row, column, or box).

There are plenty of single digit eliminations, including X-wings and other n-fish, Turbots, and coloring, that I think the stte crowd does not include.

Pedantically yours,

Keith

[Leren]

Hi Keith, it sounds to me like you are being a bit pedantic with your singles terminology.

stte means singles to the end, which may include naked singles (your forced cell) or hidden singles (your pinned cell). I've never seen your singles terminology before.

The other (not quite so smug) ending is lclste which, I think, means locked candidates, locked sets to the end.

What this covers is "basic" moves, which includes singles, pointing and claiming pairs and triples plus naked and hidden pairs, triples and quads.

The custom here is that "basics" are allowed before the "killer" advanced move followed by the smug, or not so smug ending.

Leren

[keith]

Hi Keith, it sounds to me like you are being a bit pedantic with your singles terminology.

stte means singles to the end, which may include naked singles (your forced cell) or hidden singles (your pinned cell). I've never seen your singles terminology before.

The other (not quite so smug) ending is lclste which, I think, means locked candidates, locked sets to the end.

What this covers is "basic" moves, which includes singles, pointing and claiming pairs and triples plus naked and hidden pairs, triples and quads.

The custom here is that "basics" are allowed before the "killer" advanced move followed by the smug, or not so smug ending.

Leren

btte?? Basics to the end?

Keith

[tarek]

SSTS ?! http://sudopedia.enjoysudoku.com/SSTS.html

[keith]

SSTS ?! http://sudopedia.enjoysudoku.com/SSTS.html

If so, I rest my case. But, I think almost all will not agree it (sste) is the Simple Sudoku Solution Set.

Keith

[Leren]

"Basics" is definitely not SSTS. The main differences are that SSTS includes XWing, Swordfish, Simple Colors, Multicolors and XY Wing, which Basics does not.

I'd be happy with btte, or perhaps baste, but lclste has been around for a long time, and all the usual players know what it means, so why change ?

Leren

[David P Bird]

but lclste has been around for a long time, and all the usual players know what it means, so why change ?
Leren

Because cliques have a limited lifespan.

The least that could be done is to create an index of these abbreviations that Jason could be asked to turn into a sticky.

DPB

[Leren]

David P bird wrote : cliques have a limited lifespan

That may well be, but this particular clique has been going strong since, AFAIK, October 21st 2012 with the publication of Dan's first daily puzzle here.

So it is well into its 5th year and is still going strong and IMO, keeps the site alive since, sadly, there have been no major solving discoveries for some years and most of the heavy hitters have left, or are at least very quiet.

A tremendous vote of thanks is well overdue to Dan, for his unremitting persistence in posting a puzzle every day since then, for us crazy "clique" members to try and solve in one non-basic move.

stte was mentioned in that thread, so was in vogue at least before Dan started his daily puzzle series. lclste was "invented" by Dan during the currency of the daily puzzle series (see edit below).

I'd be quite happy to see a Sticky that explained what stte, lclste and Basics mean, and what is the "purpose" in solving the daily puzzle in 1 non-Basic move, but I think that would be up to Jason and Dan.

Leren

<edit>

I did a search on stte and found the earliest surviving reference here on March 4 2009, the "inventor" being DonM.

A similar search for lclste finds the earliest surviving reference here on January 6th 2013, the "inventor" being Dan (ArkieTech). Dan says that it means "locked cells and sets to end".

Leren

[SteveG48]

A tremendous vote of thanks is well overdue to Dan, for his unremitting persistence in posting a puzzle every day since then, for us crazy "clique" members to try and solve in one non-basic move.

Agreed. Thanks, Dan.

I can't say that I agree with the terminology "clique". That implies that outsiders are unwelcome, which is certainly untrue. I was made welcome when I showed up a few years ago, having never forged a chain nor heard of the notation being used. I got plenty of help from quite a few people. Thanks, all.

[Leren]

How about we get away from pejorative terms like "clique" and instead use the term Common Interest Group (or CIG for short). This is a group of people who engage in one particular identifiable aspect of Sudoku puzzle creation or solving.

I'm sure what David actually meant to say was that CIG's tend to have a limited life span. This is true in many cases but not always true.

In fact the Daily Puzzle CIG is not the extant one with the longest lifespan. I think it might be the Patterns Game CIG. The Patterns Game thread runs to 2210 pages, has 33,141 replies, 1,455,513 views (as of this post), started on Thursday Aug 21, 2008 at 1:55 am and is still going strongly.

Can anyone think of a longer running CIG ?

Leren

[Pat]

The Patterns Game thread---started on Aug 21, 2008
and is still going strongly.

JPF started the Patterns Game

on 2007.Jan.12
at 20:45 GMT

( that Topic has been re-named Patterns Game 1.0 )

so, the Patterns Game has been going for 10 full years

[Cenoman]

Leren wrote: A tremendous vote of thanks is well overdue to Dan, for his unremitting persistence in posting a puzzle every day since then, for us crazy "clique" members to try and solve in one non-basic move.

Fully in line. Thanks a lot, Dan !

Then

SteveG48 wrote: I can't say that I agree with the terminology "clique". That implies that outsiders are unwelcome, which is certainly untrue.

I confirm, as a recent outsider, to have been welcomed into the "clique". I have accepted the challenge of solving a rather easy puzzle, in one non-basic move leading to an "stte" finish, with a path different of those already posted. What is the trouble with it ?

BTW the first pejorative term was in the opening post of this thread (smug stte)...

AFAIK no international standard exists, that defines official sudoku terms. I guess each forum has its own habits and uses. What about focusing on substance and avoiding futile debates about terminology and notations ?

Cenoman

[JasonLion]

In order to make any progress in "focusing on substance" we must speak a common language, or fairly close, or there will be no way to make ourselves understood. Thus, there is great value to standardization, and much progress has been made in that direction. There are several terms that have two or three alternate words, but accepting that, there is in fact a tremendous amount of standardization.

[Leren]

In order to make any progress in "focusing on substance" we must speak a common language, or fairly close, or there will be no way to make ourselves understood. Thus, there is great value to standardization, and much progress has been made in that direction. There are several terms that have two or three alternate words, but accepting that, there is in fact a tremendous amount of standardization.

Well I've been active in this CIG for a while now and I can't think of anything that's ambiguous (to me at least). Give me an example of something that you think is ambiguous and I'll see if I can help.

Leren