## variants with SE 12.x

For fans of Killer Sudoku, Samurai Sudoku and other variants

### variants with SE 12.x

latest available version of sudoku explainer(2022.1.4) rates this as follows:
Code: Select all
`.........7.......5.............4.....8..5..23....1.............2.......6......... 111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999 ED=12.3/12.3/2.8`
Last edited by urhegyi on Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:26 pm, edited 7 times in total.
urhegyi

Posts: 616
Joined: 13 April 2020

### Re: variants with SE 12.x

Some post are deleted from this topic, while I was busy solving 2 puzzles

The first puzzle with a r5c1=6
Code: Select all
`#1/X/B4,JS.........7.......5.............4....68..5..23....1.............2.......6.........111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999`

SiSeSuSo can solve this with Nested Forcing Nets in about 3 minutes.
This means a Forcing Net (or dynamic forcing chain?) within another Forcing Net
I think this is also T&E(2) .
Recently in http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/the-hardest-sudokus-new-thread-t6539-1048.html a new vanilla puzzle was discovered that could not be solved with T&E(2).
Also SiSeSuSo could not solve this "Loki" or "Thor's hammer" with Nested Forcing Nets (depth 2).
But It could with Nested Forcing Nets (depth 3). Just put a 2 into the Settings page of SiSeSuSo (it counts from 0,1,2).

Also your 2nd puzzle without a 6 in r5c1 is solvable with Nested Forcing Nets (depth 3) in 6 minutes. No need for BruteForce/BackTrack
Code: Select all
`#1/X/B4,JS.........7.......5.............4.....8..5..23....1.............2.......6.........111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999`

How long did it take you to rate this puzzle with sudoku explainer(2022.1.4) ?

Hajime

Posts: 1022
Joined: 20 April 2018
Location: Netherlands

### Re: variants with SE 12.x

In the left column I have 11 clue not minimal JSX with this layout:
Edit: Left column ending with X seems to be already minimal
Code: Select all
`111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999`

In the right column minimal forms with some clues removed will be added when processed.
They seem all to have extremely high ratings, some of them even with nested forcing chains up to depth 3.
Code: Select all
`.........7.......5.............4....68..5..23....1.............2.......6......... ED=11.5/11.5/2.8 .........7.......5.............4.....8..5..23....1.............2.......6......... ED=12.3/12.3/2.8.........1.......2.............4....93..1..76....5.............8.......1......... ED=12.0/12.0/2.8 .........1.......2.............4....93.....76....5.............8.......1......... ED=12.3/12.3/2.9.........1.......2.............4....93..8..76....5.............8.......9......... ED=11.6/11.6/2.9 .........1.......2.............4.....3..8..76....5.............8.......9......... ED=12.0/12.0/2.9.........1.......2.............4....91..2..76....5.............8.......4......... ED=12.0/12.0/2.8 .........1.......2.............4....93..8..7.....5.............8.......9......... ED=12.1/12.1/2.9.........1.......2.............4....91..8..76....5.............8.......7......... ED=12.2/12.2/2.8 .........1.......2..................91..2..76....5.............8.......4......... ED=12.4/12.4/2.8.........1.......2.............4....91..2..76....5.............8.......7......... ED=12.2/12.2/2.8 .........1.......2.............4....9...2..76....5.............8.......4......... ED=12.3/12.3/2.8.........1.......2.............4....91..2..76....5.............8.......5......... ED=12.0/2.8/2.8  .........1.......2.............4....9...8..76....5.............8.......7......... ED=12.5/12.5/2.8.........1.......2.............8....92..4..76....5.............8.......7......... ED=11.8/11.8/2.8X.........1.......2.............4....91..2...6....5.............8.......7......... ED=12.5/12.5/2.8.........1.......2.............8....92..4..76....5.............8.......3......... ED=11.4/11.4/2.8 .........1.......2.............4....9...2..76....5.............8.......5......... ED=12.3/2.8/2.8.........1.......2.............2....94..8..76....5.............8.......7......... ED=11.5/11.5/2.8 .........1.......2.............8.....2..4..76....5.............8.......3......... ED=12.0/12.0/2.8.........1.......2.............1....94..8..76....5.............8.......7......... ED=12.0/2.8/2.8  .........1.......2.............8....9...4..76....5.............8.......3......... ED=12.0/12.0/2.8.........1.......2.............3....94..6..78....5.............8.......6......... ED=11.2/11.2/2.8 .........1.......2.............8....92.....76....5.............8.......3......... ED=12.0/12.0/2.8.........1.......2.............3....94..1..78....5.............8.......1......... ED=11.4/11.4/2.8 .........1.......2.............8....92..4..76..................8.......3......... ED=12.0/12.0/2.8.........1.......2.............3....92..6..78....5.............8.......7......... ED=11.9/11.9/2.8 .........1.......2.............2....94.....76....5.............8.......7......... ED=11.9/11.9/2.8.........1.......2.............1....93..6..78....5.............8.......5......... ED=12.0/2.8/2.8.........1.......2.............6....93..2..71....5.............8.......4......... ED=11.5/11.5/2.9.........1.......2.............6....92..4..71....5.............8.......5......... ED=11.3/2.8/2.8.........1.......2.............6....92..8..71....5.............8.......4......... ED=11.6/11.6/2.8.........1.......2.............8....94..6..71....5.............8.......7......... ED=11.1/11.1/2.8.........5.......3.............8....95..7..26....3.............1.......9......... ED=11.1/11.1/2.8.........5.......7.............8....94..3..21....5.............1.......3......... ED=11.2/11.2/2.8.........5.......7.............8....97..3..24....5.............1.......3......... ED=11.2/11.2/2.8.........5.......8.............8....94..6..27....5.............1.......3......... ED=11.5/11.5/2.8.........5.......7.............8....94..6..21....5.............1.......3......... ED=11.8/11.8/2.8.........5.......4.............8....95..4..27....1.............1.......3......... ED=11.5/11.5/2.8.........5.......1.............8....94..1..26....3.............1.......3......... ED=11.9/2.8/2.8.........5.......9.............8....94..6..21....7.............1.......3......... ED=11.8/11.8/2.9.........5.......9.............8....94..5..26....7.............1.......3......... ED=11.2/11.2/2.8.........3.......1.............3....86..1..95....7.............1.......2......... ED=11.9/2.8/2.8.........5.......2.............3....86..1..97....5.............1.......9......... ED=12.0/12.0/2.8 .........5.......2.............3....86..1..97..................1.......9......... ED=12.4/12.4/2.8.........8.......3.............8....79..2..61....5.............6.......7......... ED=11.3/2.8/2.8  .........5.......2.............3....86..1...7....5.............1.......9......... ED=12.3/12.3/2.8.........8.......3.............7....39..2..61....5.............4.......7......... ED=11.8/11.8/2.8.........8.......3.............7....38..2..61....5.............4.......7......... ED=12.0/12.0/2.8 .........8.......3..................38..2..61....5.............4.......7......... ED=12.4/12.4/2.8.........8.......3.............9....38..2..61....5.............6.......7......... ED=11.9/11.9/2.8.........8.......3.............7....94..2..61....5.............5.......7......... ED=11.4/11.4/2.8.........8.......3.............4....58..2..61....3.............6.......7......... ED=11.8/11.8/2.8.........8.......3.............9....54..2..61....3.............6.......7......... ED=11.4/11.4/2.8.........8.......3.............8....39..2..61....7.............5.......7......... ED=12.0/2.8/2.8.........9.......7.............2....71..9..68....3.............4.......2......... ED=11.2/11.2/2.8.........9.......7.............2....71..9..65....3.............4.......9......... ED=11.4/11.4/2.8.........9.......7.............2....18..5..64....9.............4.......6......... ED=12.0/12.0/2.8 .........9.......7.............2....18..5..64..................4.......6......... ED=12.4/12.4/2.8.........5.......7.............9....26..5..34....8.............3.......9......... ED=11.2/11.2/2.8.........5.......3.............6....84..3..92....1.............9.......8......... ED=11.5/11.5/2.8`
urhegyi

Posts: 616
Joined: 13 April 2020

### Re: variants with SE 12.x

Conclusion of this generating approach for non-minimal 11 clue jsx with this
Code: Select all
`111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999`
layout:
1)
Code: Select all
`.........1.......2.............4....91..8..76....5.............8.......7......... ED=12.2/12.2/2.8`

2)
Code: Select all
`.........1.......2.............4....91..2..76....5.............8.......7......... ED=12.2/12.2/2.8`

3)
Code: Select all
`.8....35...........3.....6.............................7.....3...........45...21. ED=12.2/12.2/2.8`

Remove a given to get a 10 clue minimal jsx.
Rating will be higher.
1)
Code: Select all
`.........1.......2.............4....9...8..76....5.............8.......7......... ED=12.5/12.5/2.8`

2)
Code: Select all
`.........1.......2.............4....91..2...6....5.............8.......7......... ED=12.5/12.5/2.8`

3)
Code: Select all
`.8....3............3.....6.............................7.....3...........45...21. ED=12.5/12.5/2.8`

Using the same solution grid as the last 10 clue minimal example I got this 11 clue minimal example with the same high rating:
4)
Code: Select all
`.86...35...........3.....6.............................7.....3...........4....21. ED=12.5/12.5/2.8`
urhegyi

Posts: 616
Joined: 13 April 2020

### Re: variants with SE 12.x

With the same generator I found 9 new 9 clues JSX with the last layout by reducing them from 10 clues:
They are now beeing rated.

Code: Select all
`111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999`

Code: Select all
`......4............3.....8.............................2.....7...........61...85. ED=11.9/11.9/2.8.1....6............9...................................2.....7...........36...84. ED=11.8/11.8/2.8.1....6............9.....3.............................2.....7............6...84. ED=11.6/11.6/2.8......8............1.....2.............................7.....6...........48...93. ED=12.1/12.1/2.8.9....8............1.....2.............................7.....6...........48....3. ED=11.8/11.8/2.8.6....4............5.....7...................................9...........18...72. ED=10.6/10.6/2.8......4............5.....6.............................3.....9...........15...72. ED=12.3/12.3/2.8.6....4............5.....6.............................3.....9...........1....72. ED=12.0/12.0/2.8......6............5.....7.............................7.....8...........14...39. ED=11.4/11.4/2.8`
urhegyi

Posts: 616
Joined: 13 April 2020

### Re: variants with SE 12.x

a few more 9 clue JSX with the same layout:
Code: Select all
`................7..3...9......3...................4......1...2..8.............5.. ED=11.9/11.9/2.8................7..4...5......8...................2......1...2..9.............3.. ED=12.1/12.1/2.8................5..4...3......8...................2......1...7..6.............3.. ED=12.2/12.2/2.8................3..4...9......8...................2......1...7..6.............3.. ED=10.8/6.6/2.8................1..9...4......9...................5......2...8..7.............6.. ED=11.9/11.9/2.8................1..9...5......7...................2......2...8..3.............4.. ED=11.4/11.4/2.8`
urhegyi

Posts: 616
Joined: 13 April 2020

### Re: variants with SE 12.x

a few more 8 clue JSX with the same layout:
Code: Select all
`........95..........3...6......2....................8.............4......1....... ED=11.9/1.9/1.9........95..........3...6......2....................8......7.............1....... ED=11.2/1.9/1.9.......8.5..........7..............1...............2.......9......6......3....... ED=12.1/1.9/1.9.......7.8..........9..............3...............6.......4......1......5....... ED=12.1/1.9/1.9.......8.5.........................1....9..........2.......7......6......3....... ED=12.1/12.1/2.8..........3..........1...........6...4.........8...........7..........2....9..... ED=12.0/8.9/2.8..........3..........6...........4...1.....2...9...........8...............7..... ED=11.5/8.2/2.8..........5..........2...........6...4.....1...8...........7...............9..... ED=11.5/8.2/2.8`
Last edited by urhegyi on Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:09 pm, edited 12 times in total.
urhegyi

Posts: 616
Joined: 13 April 2020

### Re: variants with SE 12.x

Nice found. Less givens is not possible.

Hajime

Posts: 1022
Joined: 20 April 2018
Location: Netherlands

### Re: variants with SE 12.x

a few more 9 clue updates:
Code: Select all
`..9...6.......8..........1.....5...................7............2.4.......1...... ED=12.1/12.1/2.8..1...4.......6..........7.....8...................9............3.8.......5...... ED=12.4/12.4/2.8..1...4.......6..........9.....2...................9............3.8.......5...... ED=12.3/12.3/2.8..1...4.......6..........5.....2...................9............3.8.......5...... ED=12.1/12.1/2.8.......................2...4..........96.35..7...........9.8..................... ED=12.0/11.5/2.8`
urhegyi

Posts: 616
Joined: 13 April 2020

### Re: variants with SE 12.x

after a long time another 8 clue example with the same JSX layout:
Code: Select all
`.............6..............7.......3......45.......1..............8........2.... 111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999 JSX ED=12.6/12.6/2.8`

Finally the hardest minimal JSX with digits 1to8 only once(R5C5=9 missing).
solvepath:
Hidden Text: Show
Code: Select all
`2.8, Claiming: Cells R1C8,R2C8,R3C8,R4C8: 2 in column and jigsaw2.8, Claiming: Cells R4C9,R6C9,R7C9: 2 in column and jigsaw2.8, Claiming: Cells R2C7,R3C7,R4C7: 2 in column and jigsaw2.8, Claiming: Cells R4C6,R5C6,R6C6,R7C6: 2 in column and jigsaw7.9, Nishio Forcing Chain: R6C1.2 on ==> R8C2.2 both on & off7.9, Nishio Forcing Chain: R7C3.2 on ==> R4C1.2 both on & off7.9, Nishio Forcing Chain: R3C2.2 on ==> R2C8.2 both on & off8.0, Nishio Forcing Chain: R2C4.4 on ==> R7C6.4 both on & off9.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C3.2 on ==> R2C2.2 both on & off9.4, Double Forcing Chain: R2C7.8 on & off ==> R4C6.8 off9.4, Double Forcing Chain: R8C3.6 on & off ==> R6C4.6 off9.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C6.6 on ==> R7C9.6 both on & off9.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C6.6 on ==> R7C9.6 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R4C6,R5C6,R6C6,R7C6: 6 in column and jigsaw9.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C4.8 on ==> R5C3.8 both on & off9.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C4.8 on ==> R5C3.8 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R3C4,R4C4,R5C4,R6C4: 8 in column and jigsaw9.6, Region Forcing Chains: 7 in jigsaw ==> R3C4.7 off9.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C7.7 on ==> R8C8.7 both on & off9.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C7.3 on ==> R8C6.3 both on & off9.7, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R4C5.4 on ==> R9C4.4 both on & off9.7, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C4.4 on ==> R7C5.4 both on & off9.6, Region Forcing Chains: 4 in diagonal(/) ==> R7C6.4 off9.7, Region Forcing Chains: 4 in column ==> R8C3.4 off9.7, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C3.1 on ==> R5C6.1 both on & off9.7, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C5.1 on ==> R7C2.1 both on & off9.7, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C6.4 on ==> R7C1.4 both on & off9.8, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R4C7.3 on ==> R3C4.3 both on & off9.8, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C7.5 on ==> R6C1.5 both on & off10.9, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C4.5 on ==> R7C2.5 both on & off9.8, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C3.5 on ==> R2C7.5 both on & off11.0, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C3.4 on ==> R4C4.4 both on & off9.7, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C1.4 on ==> R4C6.4 both on & off11.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C6.3 on ==> R8C2.3 both on & off11.5, Region Forcing Chains: 5 in diagonal(/) ==> R3C4.5 off11.6, Region Forcing Chains: 3 in column ==> R4C5.3 off11.6, Region Forcing Chains: 5 in jigsaw ==> R6C5.5 off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C1.5 on ==> R9C9.4 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C9.6 on ==> R2C2.5 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C6.3 on ==> R3C1.9 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C6.4 on ==> R1C3.7 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C6.5 on ==> R6C7.3 both on & off10.9, Region Forcing Chains: 5 in row ==> R6C2.5 off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R4C9.6 on ==> R7C2.4 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C1.4 on ==> R3C4.8 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C4.4 on ==> R8C8.6 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C4.5 on ==> R2C4.1 both on & off12.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C4.1 on ==> R3C8.3 both on & off12.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C6.4 on ==> R6C3.6 both on & off12.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C2.4 on ==> R5C5.7 both on & off12.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C7.6 on ==> R8C4.5 both on & off12.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R4C4.1 on ==> R3C2.6 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C7.1 on ==> R4C6.6 both on & off12.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C7.8 on ==> R2C2.9 both on & off12.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C4.3 on ==> R9C9.9 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C1.5 on ==> R9C9.9 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C4.4 on ==> R8C6.1 both on & off9.1, Region Forcing Chains: 4 in diagonal(/) ==> R7C2.4 off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C3.4 on ==> R7C1.8 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C5.4 on ==> R2C7.7 both on & off8.2, Nishio Forcing Chain: R4C6.4 on ==> R9C9.4 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R3C4,R4C4,R6C4: 4 in jigsaw and column12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C2.4 on ==> R2C8.8 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C3.2 on ==> R1C9.6 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C4.8 on ==> R3C1.1 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C2.3 on ==> R1C5.9 both on & off7.9, Nishio Forcing Chain: R1C9.3 on ==> R2C2.3 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C8.3 on ==> R7C5.5 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C2.3 on ==> R4C1.4 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C6.5 on ==> R9C1.9 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C2.5 on ==> R9C9.3 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C6.5 on ==> R9C3.9 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R5C2.1 on ==> R6C6.7 both on & off9.5, Region Forcing Chains: 1 in jigsaw ==> R7C6.1 off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C2.2 on ==> R3C6.3 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C6.7 on ==> R3C3.8 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C1.8 on ==> R9C4.1 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C3.6 on ==> R1C9.9 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C8.5 on ==> R3C7.4 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C1.4 on ==> R3C3.9 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C3.7 on ==> R3C8.3 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C1.7 on ==> R7C5.5 both on & off12.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C4.5 on ==> R7C5.1 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C2.5 on ==> R2C8.7 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C1.5 on ==> R6C5.7 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C8.5 on ==> R7C6.9 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C6.7 on ==> R4C4.8 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R4C6.2 on ==> R6C3.7 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C4.1 on ==> R1C1.4 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C8.5 on ==> R6C7.8 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C6.3 on ==> R5C5.7 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C7.2 on ==> R3C9.6 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C8.2 on ==> R7C3.3 both on & off12.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C7.9 on ==> R4C4.3 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C3.5 on ==> R8C2.4 both on & off9.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C6.5 on ==> R2C8.5 both on & off9.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C1.5 on ==> R6C6.5 both on & off9.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C2.5 on ==> R4C7.5 both on & off9.6, Region Forcing Chains: 5 in antidiagonal(\) ==> R4C8.5 off12.1, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C7.7 on ==> R3C2.8 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C7.3 on ==> R3C3.9 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C2.6 on ==> R7C6.2 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C9.3 on ==> R1C2.1 both on & off12.2, Cell Forcing Chains: R4C9 ==> R1C6.1 off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C6.5 on ==> R6C4.4 both on & off12.0, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C7.7 on ==> R2C4.3 both on & off8.2, Nishio Forcing Chain: R9C6.7 on ==> R1C3.7 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C2.8 on ==> R7C5.1 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C2.1 on ==> R3C4.9 both on & off11.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C3.1 on ==> R3C2.8 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C3.6 on ==> R7C1.7 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C6.1 on ==> R3C3.8 both on & off12.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R4C9.3 on ==> R1C1.2 both on & off8.1, Nishio Forcing Chain: R6C6.3 on ==> R1C3.3 both on & off11.9, Region Forcing Chains: 2 in antidiagonal(\) ==> R9C7.3 off11.8, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C8.3 on ==> R2C1.2 both on & off12.0, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C4.3 on ==> R7C5.7 both on & off12.1, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C4.3 on ==> R5C6.1 both on & off11.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C3.3 on ==> R2C1.1 both on & off11.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C7.3 on ==> R6C2.4 both on & off11.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C8.3 on ==> R8C2.1 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R1C2,R1C3,R1C5: 3 in row and jigsaw11.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C6.4 on ==> R1C3.1 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R1C1,R1C2,R1C3,R1C5: 4 in row and jigsaw11.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C1.1 on ==> R6C2.9 both on & off11.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C7.4 on ==> R1C6.8 both on & off11.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C3.3 on ==> R1C4.6 both on & off11.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C4.7 on ==> R1C7.5 both on & off11.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C5.7 on ==> R3C3.8 both on & off11.9, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C9.1 on ==> R7C4.1 both on & off11.9, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C9.3 on ==> R4C1.2 both on & off10.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C2.3 on ==> R1C1.2 both on & off11.9, Region Forcing Chains: 8 in row ==> R6C1.8 off11.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C3.5 on ==> R3C9.6 both on & off11.7, Region Forcing Chains: 5 in jigsaw ==> R8C3.1 off8.2, Nishio Forcing Chain: R1C4.1 on ==> R9C7.1 both on & off11.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C7.6 on ==> R3C1.5 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R5C7,R6C7,R7C7,R8C7: 6 in column and jigsaw11.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C2.2 on ==> R9C2.1 both on & off11.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C9.4 on ==> R9C1.9 both on & off11.8, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C3.5 on ==> R9C7.1 both on & off9.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R4C7.5 on ==> R6C6.5 both on & off11.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C6.7 on ==> R3C6.3 both on & off11.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C7.4 on ==> R3C6.8 both on & off9.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C2.2 on ==> R2C2.1 both on & off8.0, Nishio Forcing Chain: R3C3.2 on ==> R8C4.2 both on & off11.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C6.9 on ==> R1C4.6 both on & off11.3, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R4C6.5 on ==> R2C9.3 both on & off7.6, Nishio Forcing Chain: R7C8.5 on ==> R6C6.5 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R2C8,R3C8: 5 in column and jigsaw2.8, Claiming: Cells R1C1,R1C4,R1C5: 5 in row and jigsaw2.8, Claiming: Cells R7C2,R9C2: 5 in column and jigsaw7.9, Nishio Forcing Chain: R8C4.5 on ==> R3C1.5 both on & off10.1, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C3.6 on ==> R9C8.6 both on & off10.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R6C2.6 on ==> R7C6.9 both on & off10.1, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C5.3 on ==> R5C2.2 both on & off10.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C8.7 on ==> R3C6.7 both on & off10.0, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C4.7 on ==> R6C4.8 both on & off10.1, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C9.7 on ==> R4C1.8 both on & off10.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C5.7 on ==> R3C6.3 both on & off10.1, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C8.7 on ==> R1C1.2 both on & off10.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C9.7 on ==> R9C9.9 both on & off10.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C8.2 on ==> R7C7.6 both on & off1.5, Hidden Single: R3C7: 2 in diagonal (/)7.7, Nishio Forcing Chain: R1C4.2 on ==> R2C3.2 both on & off10.1, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C3.1 on ==> R9C3.7 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R2C3,R3C3,R4C3,R5C3: 1 in column and jigsaw10.0, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C7.1 on ==> R7C3.3 both on & off10.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R3C8.8 on ==> R1C6.7 both on & off10.7, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C6.9 on ==> R9C7.5 both on & off10.7, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R5C2.6 on ==> R5C5.7 both on & off10.0, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C7.6 on ==> R2C4.9 both on & off10.6, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R9C9.3 on ==> R4C1.8 both on & off2.9, Generalized Intersection: Cells R4C4,R8C8: 3 in antidiagonal(\)2.8, Claiming: Cells R4C4,R4C6: 3 in row and jigsaw9.7, Region Forcing Chains: 7 in column ==> R5C7.7 off2.8, Claiming: Cells R5C4,R5C5,R5C6: 7 in row and jigsaw9.9, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R4C4.4 on ==> R1C4.5 both on & off7.8, Nishio Forcing Chain: R3C1.4 on ==> R8C2.4 both on & off9.1, Region Forcing Chains: 4 in antidiagonal(\) ==> R1C3.4 off9.9, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C1.5 on ==> R7C4.3 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R3C1,R4C1,R6C1: 5 in column and jigsaw2.8, Claiming: Cells R7C3,R8C3: 5 in column and jigsaw2.8, Claiming: Cells R4C4,R6C6: 5 in antidiagonal(\) and jigsaw9.0, Region Forcing Chains: 2 in row ==> R6C9.8 off9.0, Region Forcing Chains: 2 in row ==> R6C9.9 off9.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C2.2 on ==> R8C2.6 both on & off7.9, Nishio Forcing Chain: R5C3.2 on ==> R4C9.2 both on & off7.8, Nishio Forcing Chain: R4C9.2 on ==> R1C1.2 both on & off9.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C2.9 on ==> R6C4.9 both on & off9.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C2.8 on ==> R9C9.6 both on & off9.5, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C2.1 on ==> R7C7.7 both on & off9.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R7C4.3 on ==> R1C1.6 both on & off7.6, Nishio Forcing Chain: R9C3.3 on ==> R8C8.3 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R6C2,R7C2,R8C2: 3 in jigsaw and column9.0, Region Forcing Chains: 3 in row ==> R4C4.8 off9.0, Region Forcing Chains: 3 in row ==> R4C4.9 off9.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C5.9 on ==> R6C2.4 both on & off8.9, Cell Forcing Chains: R1C5 ==> R7C3.9 off9.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C8.8 on ==> R2C2.2 both on & off9.2, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R4C7.8 on ==> R5C2.2 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R1C6,R2C6,R3C6: 8 in jigsaw and column9.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R2C6.7 on ==> R9C9.8 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R2C1,R2C4: 7 in row and jigsaw9.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C3.8 on ==> R9C6.3 both on & off9.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C1.8 on ==> R4C1.6 both on & off9.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R8C3.7 on ==> R5C7.8 both on & off8.8, Region Forcing Chains: 2 in antidiagonal(\) ==> R2C1.2 off9.4, Contradiction Forcing Chain: R1C4.6 on ==> R7C7.8 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R7C4,R8C4,R9C4: 6 in column and jigsaw8.7, Region Forcing Chains: 9 in column ==> R6C6.2 off1.5, Hidden Single: R6C9: 2 in row 62.8, Claiming: Cells R1C1,R2C2: 2 in antidiagonal(\) and jigsaw2.8, Claiming: Cells R7C4,R8C4: 2 in column and jigsaw2.8, Claiming: Cells R2C3,R4C3: 2 in column and jigsaw8.6, Region Forcing Chains: 9 in antidiagonal(\) ==> R9C7.9 off9.0, Cell Forcing Chains: R7C3 ==> R8C7.9 off9.0, Cell Forcing Chains: R1C5 ==> R6C2.8 off9.0, Region Forcing Chains: 4 in antidiagonal(\) ==> R9C7.4 off9.1, Region Forcing Chains: 8 in row ==> R7C7.8 off7.9, Nishio Forcing Chain: R2C9.8 on ==> R1C6.8 both on & off9.1, Cell Forcing Chains: R7C7 ==> R1C1.9 off9.1, Cell Forcing Chains: R7C7 ==> R7C6.9 off9.0, Region Forcing Chains: 6 in antidiagonal(\) ==> R7C8.6 off9.0, Cell Forcing Chains: R7C8 ==> R9C7.8 off8.1, Nishio Forcing Chain: R7C9.8 on ==> R2C6.8 both on & off7.8, Nishio Forcing Chain: R5C2.8 on ==> R9C9.8 both on & off2.8, Claiming: Cells R1C2,R2C2,R3C2: 8 in column and jigsaw7.9, Nishio Forcing Chain: R3C3.8 on ==> R4C8.8 both on & off7.1, Forcing Chain: R7C1.2 off8.3, Region Forcing Chains: 1 in row ==> R8C4.1 off8.5, Region Forcing Chains: 8 in column ==> R4C8.6 off7.9, Nishio Forcing Chain: R3C1.6 on ==> R6C7.6 both on & off8.4, Region Forcing Chains: 6 in row ==> R1C1.6 off8.5, Region Forcing Chains: 8 in column ==> R4C8.9 off8.5, Region Forcing Chains: 9 in column ==> R2C3.9 off8.8, Region Forcing Chains: 2 in column ==> R8C4.6 off8.0, Nishio Forcing Chain: R7C6.6 on ==> R8C2.6 both on & off2.3, Naked Single: R7C6: 21.5, Hidden Single: R8C4: 2 in column 41.5, Hidden Single: R1C1: 2 in column 11.5, Hidden Single: R5C2: 2 in column 21.5, Hidden Single: R4C8: 2 in column 81.5, Hidden Single: R2C3: 2 in column 32.8, Claiming: Cells R2C6,R2C7: 4 in row and jigsaw7.6, Nishio Forcing Chain: R8C2.4 on ==> R6C5.4 both on & off7.7, Nishio Forcing Chain: R1C2.8 on ==> R9C9.8 both on & off7.8, Nishio Forcing Chain: R7C9.4 on ==> R3C4.4 both on & off7.8, Nishio Forcing Chain: R3C9.1 on ==> R2C1.1 both on & off7.7, Nishio Forcing Chain: R8C2.1 on ==> R2C9.1 both on & off7.8, Nishio Forcing Chain: R7C8.7 on ==> R9C1.7 both on & off8.3, Region Forcing Chains: 8 in jigsaw ==> R7C4.7 off8.5, Region Forcing Chains: 1 in column ==> R9C7.5 on1.5, Hidden Single: R7C2: 5 in column 21.5, Hidden Single: R8C3: 5 in column 31.5, Hidden Single: R6C6: 5 in column 61.5, Hidden Single: R1C4: 5 in column 41.5, Hidden Single: R2C8: 5 in row 22.3, Naked Single: R4C4: 32.8, Claiming: Cells R8C8,R9C9: 6 in antidiagonal(\) and jigsaw6.5, Generalized X-Wing: R7C3,R6C5,R1C5,R1C36.5, Generalized X-Wing: R6C5,R7C3,R8C2,R6C27.1, Forcing Chain: R6C2.9 off7.8, Nishio Forcing Chain: R8C7.6 on ==> R7C1.6 both on & off7.9, Nishio Forcing Chain: R4C5.1 on ==> R2C1.1 both on & off8.3, Region Forcing Chains: 4 in column ==> R8C7.7 off7.6, Nishio Forcing Chain: R7C1.7 on ==> R6C7.7 both on & off8.4, Cell Forcing Chains: R3C8 ==> R9C9.8 off1.5, Hidden Single: R2C2: 8 in antidiagonal (\)2.8, Claiming: Cells R7C8,R9C8: 8 in jigsaw and column2.9, Generalized Intersection: Cells R3C3,R5C5: 1 in antidiagonal(\)2.8, Claiming: Cells R5C4,R5C5,R5C6: 1 in row and jigsaw6.8, Forcing X-Chain: R7C1.1 off2.8, Claiming: Cells R7C4,R7C5: 1 in row and jigsaw3.2, X-Wing: Cells R5C4,R5C5,R7C4,R7C5: 1 in 2 columns and 2 rows7.1, Forcing Chain: R6C3.9 off2.3, Naked Single: R6C3: 71.9, Direct Claiming: Cells R8C1,R9C1: 7 of jigsaw in column6.6, Turbot Fish: R1C6.7 off2.8, Claiming: Cells R1C7,R1C8,R1C9: 7 in row and jigsaw7.1, Forcing Chain: R6C4.9 off7.1, Forcing Chain: R6C5.9 off2.0, Direct Hidden Pair: Cells R6C1,R6C7: 6,9 in row1.5, Hidden Single: R3C4: 4 in column 42.8, Claiming: Cells R4C1,R4C3: 4 in jigsaw and row1.9, Direct Claiming: Cells R8C9,R9C9: 4 of column in jigsaw3.0, Naked Pair: Cells R1C5,R6C5: 3,4 in column3.2, X-Wing: Cells R3C6,R3C8,R9C6,R9C8: 3 in 2 columns and 2 rows3.6, Naked Triplet: Cells R4C9,R5C7,R6C7: 6,8,9 in jigsaw2.9, Generalized Intersection: Cells R4C9,R5C7,R6C7: 9 in jigsaw2.3, Naked Single: R4C7: 11.5, Hidden Single: R3C3: 1 in column 31.5, Hidden Single: R7C5: 1 in column 51.5, Hidden Single: R5C4: 1 in column 42.8, Claiming: Cells R8C6,R9C6: 1 in column and jigsaw6.5, Generalized X-Wing: R1C9,R9C1,R9C2,R1C21.5, Hidden Single: R8C6: 1 in column 66.5, Generalized X-Wing: R7C3,R9C1,R4C1,R4C37.1, Forcing Chain: R1C9.9 off7.1, Forcing Chain: R4C5.9 off2.0, Direct Hidden Pair: Cells R3C5,R5C5: 7,9 in column1.5, Hidden Single: R3C1: 5 in column 17.1, Forcing Chain: R4C6.9 off2.0, Direct Hidden Pair: Cells R5C5,R5C6: 7,9 in jigsaw2.8, Claiming: Cells R5C5,R5C6: 9 in jigsaw and row6.6, Bidirectional Y-Cycle: R7C7,R7C3,R8C2,R5C52.3, Naked Single: R8C8: 61.5, Hidden Single: R3C9: 6 in column 91.5, Hidden Single: R4C9: 8 in column 91.5, Hidden Single: R7C1: 8 in column 11.5, Hidden Single: R6C1: 6 in column 11.5, Hidden Single: R5C3: 8 in column 31.5, Hidden Single: R5C7: 6 in column 71.5, Hidden Single: R1C7: 8 in column 71.5, Hidden Single: R3C6: 8 in column 61.5, Hidden Single: R9C6: 3 in column 61.5, Hidden Single: R5C6: 7 in column 61.0, Hidden Single: R1C6: 9 in column 61.0, Hidden Single: R5C5: 9 in row 51.5, Hidden Single: R3C5: 7 in column 51.5, Hidden Single: R7C7: 7 in column 71.5, Hidden Single: R8C7: 4 in column 71.5, Hidden Single: R2C7: 3 in column 71.0, Hidden Single: R6C7: 9 in column 71.5, Hidden Single: R3C8: 3 in column 81.0, Hidden Single: R3C2: 9 in row 31.5, Hidden Single: R9C8: 8 in column 81.5, Hidden Single: R1C8: 7 in column 81.0, Hidden Single: R7C8: 9 in column 81.5, Hidden Single: R9C4: 9 in column 41.0, Hidden Single: R7C4: 6 in column 41.5, Hidden Single: R4C3: 9 in column 31.0, Hidden Single: R4C1: 4 in row 41.5, Hidden Single: R8C1: 9 in column 11.5, Hidden Single: R9C1: 7 in column 11.0, Hidden Single: R2C1: 1 in column 11.0, Hidden Single: R2C9: 9 in row 21.5, Hidden Single: R9C2: 1 in column 21.5, Hidden Single: R1C2: 6 in column 21.5, Hidden Single: R6C2: 4 in column 21.0, Hidden Single: R8C2: 3 in column 21.0, Hidden Single: R6C5: 3 in row 61.0, Hidden Single: R1C5: 4 in column 51.0, Hidden Single: R8C9: 7 in row 81.5, Hidden Single: R1C3: 3 in column 31.0, Hidden Single: R1C9: 1 in row 11.5, Hidden Single: R7C3: 4 in column 31.0, Hidden Single: R9C3: 6 in column 31.0, Hidden Single: R7C9: 3 in row 71.0, Hidden Single: R9C9: 4 in column 9`
urhegyi

Posts: 616
Joined: 13 April 2020

### Re: variants with SE 12.x

SER=12.6 very very hard. Also not solvable with T&E(2), nested forcing nets.
SiSeSuSo needs 30 minutes ! to test if it has a unique solution using BFBT (fails to search for a second solution).
What are you using to create such monsters ?

Hajime

Posts: 1022
Joined: 20 April 2018
Location: Netherlands

### Re: variants with SE 12.x

just to compare my last one took 2 hours to rate and log:
Code: Select all
`.............6..............7.......3......45.......1..............8........2.... 111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999 JSX ED=12.6/12.6/2.8`

and this even harder one almost 24 hours:
Code: Select all
`...................74......5......8....3.............2..9.............1.......... 111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999 JSX ED=12.6/12.6/7.9`

or renumbered:
Code: Select all
`...................12......3......4....5.............6..7.............8.......... 111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999 JSX ED=12.6/12.6/7.9`
urhegyi

Posts: 616
Joined: 13 April 2020

### Re: variants with SE 12.x

An attempt to find more:
a) 8 clue JSX
b) layout : 111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999
c) first elimination rated as high as possible
examples:
Code: Select all
`...................74......5......8....3.............2..9.............1.......... 111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999 JSX ED=12.6/12.6/7.9....................3..58......7...2...................4......69................. 111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999 JSX ED=12.5/12.5/7.8............8....................9...6.....7..14................5..............2. 111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999 JSX ED=12.4/12.4/7.9..............6..........1.........8...2.........4...3.......7......5............ 111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999 JSX ED=12.0/12.0/7.8 ..........35...7.......12...........8.............6......4....................... 111113222117133322717633322777636325787666525784646555884446595884449599888499999 JSX ED=11.4/11.4/7.9`
urhegyi

Posts: 616
Joined: 13 April 2020

### Re: variants with SE 12.x

All 8 clue examples found above start with a 7.8(or 7.9) nishio chain.
Any idea how to find higher rated ones for the starting step.
urhegyi

Posts: 616
Joined: 13 April 2020