Times Killer No140 March 3rd

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Times Killer No140 March 3rd

Postby snowster » Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:53 pm

Please can someone tell me whether there was a printed mistake with this one, or am I going mad??
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Postby CathyW » Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:52 pm

This should probably be in the Sudoku Variants section as Killers are not produced by Pappocom.

Anyway, I don't recall any problem with last Friday's Killer in The Times! Try again, or post what you've got and I expect someone can tell you where the error is.

(And just in case afjt is reading - it's my lunch break!)
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Postby CathyW » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:11 pm

Just got home and found Friday's paper. The puzzle is perfectly OK! Let us know if you succeeded eventually Snowster or want further help on this puzzle.
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Postby jimbob » Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:43 pm

Yes, this puzzle was perfectly OK. The Times estimate of 70 minutes was, as usual, way too high.

The only problem might be that the Times seemed to be messing around with the way they are printing the cages. It is much harder to see than it used to be (especially with less than perfect vision). Are you sure you just haven't misread something?
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Postby QBasicMac » Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:29 pm

What is the deal here?

Curious, I looked at the puzzle and saw this:
Code: Select all
11 -- 22   -- -- 12   12 -- --
-- -- 19    8  8 --   -- 24 --
17 -- --   -- --  8   20 -- 13

-- -- --   22 -- --   -- -- --
16 -- --   -- 18 --   -- 21 14
21  7 --   -- -- 12   -- -- --

-- 26 --   --  3 --   16 -- --
-- --  8   13 -- --   --  7 --
-- -- --   -- 16 --   11 -- --


What is the goal here? I see 3 8's in box 2.

No comprendo nada - At least 645 was a piece of cake

Mac
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Postby jimbob » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:18 pm

This is a killer sudoku. As well as the usual rules for a sudoku regarding columns, rows and nonets there are 'cages'. Each cage consists of a number of cells, and the sum of these cells is given. For example in this puzzle the cage in the top left hand corner consists of 4 cells adding up to 11, these cells are R1C1, R1C2, R2C1 and R2C2. For puzzles from the majority of reputable sources digits cannot be repeated within a cage.

However no initial digits are given - you have to work them all out.

The Times offers these puzzles (all fairly easy) every day.

The best site to visit if you want to know more is www.djape.net
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Postby CathyW » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm

jimbob wrote:The best site to visit if you want to know more is www.djape.net


I'll second that! DJ's "IQ" and "Insane" level puzzles are much more difficult than anything you'll find in The Times and he's introduced a forum especially for us Killer addicts.:D Many of the members are also members here.

I think the Killers currently produced in The Times are from a different source - Puzzler Media rather than AIA Corporation. I agree the dotted lines around the cages are harder to see - must be even worse if you're looking at the online version.
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Postby jimbob » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:11 pm

I would say that even DJ's easy killers are harder than anything the Times produces. I always do the Times ones (whatever the rating) without pencil marks.

The Times seem to have swapped their source for killers about two weeks ago. I think the accreditation took a week to catch up though - it was fairly obvious the style of puzzle had changed before they acknowledged it.

However, as you say, this is probably the wrong place to discuss this at length - being nothing to do with Pappocom.
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Postby Lardarse » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:11 pm

I remember this puzzle... It was a tough one. But it's definitely solveable.
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Postby HATMAN » Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:27 pm

jimbob

As an alternative to doing the TiKis without a markup try them in KiMo form - either ignore the tens or eliminate the wrong cage sums first.

It is however worth looking the puzzle over first to check whether it is mainly about innies and outies or about limited choice cage sums. If it is all I&O the KiMo will not be much more difficult and you might as well stick to not marking up.

I have done more than half of the TiKis in KiMo form and only come accross one that was not directly solvable.
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Postby jimbob » Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:25 pm

HATMAN

Thanks for the idea. I've been doing your KiMos, but I hadn't really thought about doing a standard TiKi in KiMo form.

As I do them in the actual Times newspaper, it might be difficult to eliminate the tens and be disciplined enough to ignore what was crossed out.

As some TiKis seem to be getting harder anyway now, we may not need to impose these extra constraints to make them interesting.
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Postby HATMAN » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:45 pm

jimbob

I do not have the will power to ignore the actual cage totals when doing it in the paper so I make a point of eliminating the alternative cage totals as part of my solution process.

By the way, have you had a look at djape's 17-cager - it looks like a way to use up the next few evenings and most of the weekend.
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Postby jimbob » Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:58 pm

I haven't tried DJ's 17-cager yet.

I know it will take a significant amount of time. But... How can we resist the challenge?
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Postby djape » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:50 am

Guys, I did post a warning for that 17-cage puzzle, so please don't attempt to solve it - even though it does have a unique solution, the solution can be reached only by trial&error. Maybe someone will prove me wrong?
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