The New Sudoku Players' Forum

by **sarker306** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:11 pm

This puzzle is teasing me
8..15...3.5.8..14..91..68.5.3861259..1.....82.79....1....3..45114.5.7..8.85.417..
Why? It has no solution. I found it on sudopedia webpage for doubly linked ALS XZ example. Sorry i m using a cellphone so i can't paste the puzzle here. Hope some1 wud check what's wrong.

by **sarker306** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:22 pm

This puzzle is teasing me
2.3...6.99...5...3.1.....5...........6.8.7.9.5.......4.9.....7.62..4..351...9...8
it was the one trick pony of sudocue.net on 02.28.2009. What is the trick and when n where to apply? Funny i m asking such questions but i m not so advanced....

by **daj95376** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:49 pm

sarker306 wrote:This puzzle is teasing me
8..15...3.5.8..14..91..68.5.3861259..1.....82.79....1....3..45114.5.7..8.85.417..
Why? It has no solution. I found it on sudopedia webpage for doubly linked ALS XZ example. Sorry i m using a cellphone so i can't paste the puzzle here. Hope some1 wud check what's wrong.

You are correct. Whoever placed this example in Sudopedia made a mistake.

Code: Select all: +--------------------------------------------------------------+ | 8 67 2467 | 1 5 49 | 269 267 3 | | 2367 5 2367 | 8 2379 39 | 1 4 69 | | 2347 9 1 | 247 237 6 | 8 27 5 | |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------| | 47 3 8 | 6 1 2 | 5 9 47 | | 4567 1 467 | 479 379 3459 | 36 8 2 | | 56 7 9 | 47 38 358 | 36 1 47 | |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------| | 2679 67 267 | 3 2689 89 | 4 5 1 | | 1 4 236 | 5 269 7 | 2369 236 8 | | 2369 8 5 | 29 4 1 | 7 236 69 | +--------------------------------------------------------------+ # 76 eliminations remain *** Invalid Grid: [b4]~2

[r6c2]=7 appears to be where the error occurred. Try [r6c2]=2.

by **hobiwan** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:00 am

sarker306 wrote:This puzzle is teasing me
2.3...6.99...5...3.1.....5...........6.8.7.9.5.......4.9.....7.62..4..351...9...8
it was the one trick pony of sudocue.net on 02.28.2009. What is the trick and when n where to apply? Funny i m asking such questions but i m not so advanced....

If you don't want to ressort to chains I think you will need an X-Wing on candidate 4. After that a W-Wing (look for two cells containing candidates {1,2}) solves the puzzle.

Another possibility is the same X-Wing on 4, after that an X-Wing on 7 and a 2-String-Kite on 2.

by **daj95376** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:45 am

Hobiwan: I believe sarker306 is asking what one step will crack this PM to singles; i.e., the one trick pony.

Code: Select all: *--------------------------------------------------------------------* | 2 5 3 | 14 7 8 | 6 14 9 | | 9 478 467 | 1246 5 246 | 12478 124 3 | | 78 1 467 | 39 26 39 | 2478 5 27 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 78 378 9 | 45 12 45 | 1237 126 1267 | | 4 6 12 | 8 3 7 | 5 9 12 | | 5 37 12 | 269 126 269 | 37 8 4 | |----------------------+----------------------+----------------------| | 3 9 45 | 256 8 256 | 124 7 126 | | 6 2 8 | 7 4 1 | 9 3 5 | | 1 47 457 | 2356 9 2356 | 24 246 8 | *--------------------------------------------------------------------*

by **hobiwan** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:19 am

daj95376 wrote:Hobiwan: I believe sarker306 is asking what one step will crack this PM to singles; i.e., the one trick pony

I thought so I just wasn't able to find it

I am not sure whether X-Wings count as advanced steps or not.

by **Luke** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:38 am

hobiwan wrote:
sarker306 wrote:This puzzle is teasing me
2.3...6.99...5...3.1.....5...........6.8.7.9.5.......4.9.....7.62..4..351...9...8
it was the one trick pony of sudocue.net on 02.28.2009. What is the trick and when n where to apply? Funny i m asking such questions but i m not so advanced....

If you don't want to ressort to chains I think you will need an X-Wing on candidate 4. After that a W-Wing (look for two cells containing candidates {1,2}) solves the puzzle.

Another possibility is the same X-Wing on 4, after that an X-Wing on 7 and a 2-String-Kite on 2.

I think you're good. An X-wing is a simple technique by the criteria of SSTS. In fact, the puzzle solves with SSTS, so it's hard to know what to define as the equestrian move.

by **daj95376** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:02 am

hobiwan wrote:
daj95376 wrote:Hobiwan: I believe sarker306 is asking what one step will crack this PM to singles; i.e., the one trick pony

I thought so I just wasn't able to find it
I am not sure whether X-Wings count as advanced steps or not.

I stand corrected. The X-Wing is allowed under this constraint for a One Trick Pony.

SudoCue wrote:All but one solving steps are limited to singles, locked candidates, subsets, basic fish, UR 1 and BUG.

That said, then the PM is further reduced to ...

Code: Select all: *-----------------------------------------------------------* | 2 5 3 | 14 7 8 | 6 14 9 | | 9 478 67 | 1246 5 246 | 178 124 3 | | 78 1 46 | 39 26 39 | 48 5 27 | |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------| | 78 38 9 | 45 12 45 | 13 126 1267 | | 4 6 12 | 8 3 7 | 5 9 12 | | 5 37 12 | 269 126 269 | 37 8 4 | |-------------------+-------------------+-------------------| | 3 9 45 | 256 8 256 | 14 7 16 | | 6 2 8 | 7 4 1 | 9 3 5 | | 1 47 57 | 356 9 356 | 2 46 8 | *-----------------------------------------------------------*

... and it has a trivial final step before Singles.

by **sarker306** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:02 pm

This is a nightmare.
.....31.42.61......1.7......2....9...754.682...9....6......4.5......23.95.38.....
I solved it using a forcenet to show r2c7=5, xwing on 1, color on 3, naked quad in r4 and forcechain to show r4c8<>4.
But i want somewhat simple technique. Did i miss sth?

by **daj95376** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:28 pm

sarker306 wrote:This is a nightmare.
.....31.42.61......1.7......2....9...754.682...9....6......4.5......23.95.38.....
I solved it using a forcenet to show r2c7=5, xwing on 1, color on 3, naked quad in r4 and forcechain to show r4c8<>4.
But i want somewhat simple technique. Did i miss sth?

You didn't mention Hidden Pair, XYZ-Wing, or UR Type 1.

Code: Select all: r1 Naked Triple <> 789 [r1c245] r1 b2 Naked Pair <> 26 [r3c5] r8 b7 Locked Candidate 1 <> 4 [r8c8] r1 b1 Locked Candidate 1 <> 7 [r1c8] r3 b3 Hidden Pair = 26 [r3c79] r2 b3 Locked Candidate 1 <> 5 [r2c56] r57 X-Wing <> 1 [r68c1],[r469c9] r6 b5 Locked Candidate 2 <> 1 [r4c56] r4 Naked Quad <> 3578 [r4c38] c9b6 Locked Candidate 1 <> 3 [r2c9] r6 b4 Locked Candidate 1 <> 8 [r6c56] XYZ-Wing [r9c9]/[r3c9]+[r7c7] <> 6 [r7c9] c9 Hidden Pair = 26 [r39c9] UR Type 1 [r39c79] <> 26 [r9c7]

by **hobiwan** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:51 pm

Or UR Type 3:

Code: Select all: Singles Locked Candidates Type 1 (Pointing): 7 in b1 => r1c8<>7 Locked Candidates Type 1 (Pointing): 2 in b3 => r3c5<>2 Locked Candidates Type 1 (Pointing): 6 in b3 => r3c5<>6 Naked Triple: 7,8,9 in r1c138 => r1c25<>8, r1c24<>9 Singles Locked Candidates Type 1 (Pointing): 4 in b7 => r8c8<>4 Hidden Pair: 2,6 in r3c79 => r3c79<>5, r3c9<>3, r3c9<>8 Locked Candidates Type 1 (Pointing): 5 in b3 => r2c56<>5 X-Wing: 1 r57 c19 => r469c9,r68c1<>1 Locked Candidates Type 2 (Claiming): 1 in r6 => r4c56<>1 Hidden Pair: 1,4 in r4c38 => r4c3<>8, r4c8<>3, r4c8<>7 Locked Candidates Type 1 (Pointing): 8 in b4 => r6c56<>8 Locked Candidates Type 1 (Pointing): 3 in b6 => r2c9<>3 .-----------------.-----------------.--------------------. | 789 5 78 | 26 26 3 | 1 89 4 | | 2 348 6 | 1 48 89 | 57 3789 578 | | 3489 1 48 | 7 458 589 | *26 389 *26 | :-----------------+-----------------+--------------------: | 6 2 14 | 35 578 578 | 9 14 357 | | 13 7 5 | 4 9 6 | 8 2 13 | | 348 348 9 | 235 1257 157 | 457 6 357 | :-----------------+-----------------+--------------------: | 178 68 2 | 9 3 4 | 67 5 1678 | | 478 468 1478 | 56 1567 2 | 3 178 9 | | 5 9 3 | 8 -16-7 17 | *2467 147 *267 | '-----------------'-----------------'--------------------' Uniqueness Test 3: 2/6 in r3c79,r9c79 => r9c5<>1, r9c5<>7 Singles

by **eleven** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:12 pm

sarker306 wrote:This is a nightmare

Its nice without pencilmarks. After singles and the hidden pair 26 in row 1 (see below) you are here:

Code: Select all: +-------+-------+-------+ | . 5 . | . . 3 | 1 . 4 | | 2 . 6 | 1 . . | . . . | | . 1 . | 7 . . | x . x | +-------+-------+-------+ | 6 2 . | . . . | 9 . . | | . 7 5 | 4 9 6 | 8 2 . | | . . 9 | . . . | . 6 . | +-------+-------+-------+ | . . 2 | 9 3 4 | . 5 . | | . . . | . . 2 | 3 . 9 | | 5 9 3 | 8 . . | x . x | +-------+-------+-------+

Note the 2 and 6 in row 2 and column 8, which give you a hidden pair 26 in r1c45 and r3c79.
To avoid a deadly pattern 26 in r39c79 you need a 2 or 6 elsewhere in row 9. The only possibility is a 6 in r9c5.

by **sarker306** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:26 am

Code: Select all: .------------------.------------------.------------------. | 18 3 2 | 4 5 9 | 7 6 18 | | 89 4 5 | 6 7 1 | 3 29 289 | | 179 179 6 | 28 3 28 | 4 5 19 | :------------------+------------------+------------------: | 157 1578 4 | 389 2 358 | 89 79 6 | | 256 258 9 | 7 1 4568 | 28 24 3 | | 267 278 3 | 89 4689 468 | 1 2479 5 | :------------------+------------------+------------------: | 259 259 1 | 239 49 234 | 6 8 7 | | 3 269 8 | 5 69 7 | 29 1 4 | | 4 269 7 | 1 689 268 | 5 3 29 | '------------------'------------------'------------------'

This is the sudoku I am now working on. If i disable 3d medusa in sudocue, it offers me a tabling.
I wish some1 will help me find out some loops or chains or even easier to locate patterns.

by **daj95376** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:37 am

You need to find easier puzzles!

Code: Select all: +--------------------------------------------------------------+ | 18 3 2 | 4 5 9 | 7 6 18 | | 89 4 5 | 6 7 1 | 3 29 289 | | 179 179 6 | 28 3 28 | 4 5 19 | |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------| | 157 1578 4 | 389 2 358 | 89 79 6 | | 256 258 9 | 7 1 4568 | 28 24 3 | | 267 278 3 | 89 4689 468 | 1 2479 5 | |--------------------+--------------------+--------------------| | 259 259 1 | 239 49 234 | 6 8 7 | | 3 269 8 | 5 69 7 | 29 1 4 | | 4 269 7 | 1 689 268 | 5 3 29 | +--------------------------------------------------------------+ # 66 eliminations remain

Code: Select all: (6)r9c2=(6-2)r8c2=(2-9)r8c7=(9)r9c9 => [r9c2]<>9 (1)r4c2=(1)r3c2-(1=9)r3c9-(9)r9c9=(9)r8c7-(9=8)r4c7 => [r4c2]<>8 (8)r6c2=(8)r5c2-(8=2)r5c7-(2=9)r8c7-(9)r9c9=(9-8)r9c5=(8)r6c5-(8)r6c2 => [r5c6],[r6c46]<>8 (2)r8c2=(2)r8c7-(2=8)r4c7-(8)r5c2=(8)r6c2 => [r6c2]<>2 (7)r6c8=(7-9)r4c8=(9-8)r4c7=(8)r5c7-(8)r5c2=(8)r6c2 => [r6c2]<>7 __________________________________________________________________________________________

Note: The third entry is a continuous AIC loop.

ronk: Sorry, but my thoughts have switched from NL notation to Eureka/AIC/??? notation anymore.

by **ronk** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:48 pm

daj95376 wrote:(8)r6c2=(8)r5c2-(8=2)r5c7-(2=9)r8c7-(9)r9c9=(9-8)r9c5=(8)r6c5-(8)r6c2 => [r5c6],[r6c46]<>8

Note: The third entry is a continuous AIC loop.

ronk: Sorry, but my thoughts have switched from NL notation to Eureka/AIC/??? notation anymore.

Why anyone would want to clutter the notation -- parentheses, often writing the same candidate twice, and writing the same cell twice for AHSs -- is beyond me. BTW in AIC notation it's 'loop' not 'continuous loop', and it's frequently written as ...

(8)r6c2=(8)r5c2-(8=2)r5c7-(2=9)r8c7-(9)r9c9=(9-8)r9c5=(8)r6c5-loop => [r5c6],[r6c46]<>8

I see you're hanging on to those square brackets for the eliminations though.

Cool

The New Sudoku Players' Forum

this puzzle is weird to me..

From sudopedia

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