The SUPERIOR THREAD (Second collection)

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Postby tarek » Thu May 22, 2008 4:58 pm

Pat wrote:the 1st example does need a trio ( which qualifies it as "superior" )
.
.
.
i get a headache trying to follow all the possible solution-paths,
was hoping for software to do that---

It needs something out of (H3 T3 X2) to solve, what is required changes with each solution path though. If no technique is consistantly present in each solution path then you can't label it as needing a certain technique but you can safely say that it is "superior" because there will be alway a superior technique needed regardless of the puzzle configuration and method ordering or batching

I tried to use the -J in gsf's solver (i couldn't fit things into a single line).... so single input to multiple output files was done.

the 1st again failed to show a consistant technique ....so 0 for everything
the second showed X2x1 and H3x1 (absolute) & 0 for DUOs:D

To me this reflects the quality of the puzzles.

The superior 1st collection is of high quality. (as is the 2nd puzzle)
The superior 2nd collection is even better (because each non-single move is identically reproduced no matter who or how)

tarek
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re: 1.3

Postby Pat » Sun May 25, 2008 9:21 am

tarek wrote:
Pat wrote:the 1st example does need a trio ( which qualifies it as "superior" )


It needs something out of (H3 T3 X2) to solve, what is required changes with each solution path though. If no technique is consistantly present in each solution path then you can't label it as needing a certain technique but you can safely say that it is "superior" because there will be alway a superior technique needed regardless of the puzzle configuration and method ordering or batching


i said it needs a trio
meaning: it cannot be solved with X-wings
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re: 2.4

Postby Pat » Sun May 25, 2008 9:45 am

tarek wrote:the second showed X2x1 and H3x1
and 0 for duos



yes, this puzzle can be solved without duos --
by using additional trios instead, which i wouldn't recommend.


my best solution-path uses --
  • 3 box-line interactions
  • 3 duos ( 1 "hidden", 2 "naked")
  • 1 "hidden" trio
  • 1 X-wing
Code: Select all
 . . . | . . 5 | 7 . .
 . 2 . | . 4 . | . 1 .
 4 . . | 2 . . | . . .
-------+-------+------
 9 . . | . 8 . | 3 . .
 . 6 . | 7 . 3 | . 5 .
 . . 3 | . 6 . | . . 8
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . . 8 | . . 3
 . 1 . | . 2 . | . 6 .
 . . 5 | 1 . . | . . .

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Re: re: 1.3

Postby tarek » Sun May 25, 2008 10:58 am

Pat wrote:i said it needs a trio
meaning: it cannot be solved with X-wings
You are correct because trio means "hidden" or "naked". It is a way of using less words in a sentence. As you know, things are a bit more complicated than that.

I prefer to do that in reverse, I divide triples not just into hidden or naked but also into what counterpart they hold in the same sector.

I end up having 2 hidden triples (1 with a naked quad conterpart, 1 with a naked +quad counetrpart).

People who use a PM grid will struggle to spot the 2nd type. People who do not use a PM grid will probably spot the 2nd type better.

It was one of my thoughts to add another hurdle for puzzle makers if too many puzzles with similar qualities were submitted.

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joel64 # 131 # 103

Postby Pat » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:16 am


    21 cells given

    .....1..2..3.4..5..6.2.......7.....8.5..2..6.1.....7.......78...2..3..4.8..6..... # joel64 # 131 # 103
Code: Select all

 . . . | . . 1 | . . 2
 . . 3 | . 4 . | . 5 .
 . 6 . | 2 . . | . . .
-------+-------+------
 . . 7 | . . . | . . 8
 . 5 . | . 2 . | . 6 .
 1 . . | . . . | 7 . .
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . . 7 | 8 . .
 . 2 . | . 3 . | . 4 .
 8 . . | 6 . . | . . .

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Patrice # 176 # 123

Postby Pat » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:27 am


    22 cells given

    ..2...1...5...4.3.7.....6.8.....7.6.....5.....6.3.1...1.9.....4.3.8...9...8...7.. # Patrice # 176 # 123
Code: Select all

 . . 2 | . . . | 1 . .
 . 5 . | . . 4 | . 3 .
 7 . . | . . . | 6 . 8
-------+-------+------
 . . . | . . 7 | . 6 .
 . . . | . 5 . | . . .
 . 6 . | 3 . 1 | . . .
-------+-------+------
 1 . 9 | . . . | . . 4
 . 3 . | 8 . . | . 9 .
 . . 8 | . . . | 7 . .


2 solution-paths,
which would you prefer ?



    • does it qualify as "superior" ?
      yes ! (requires trio or X-wing)

    • does it require trio ?
      no !!

    • does it require X-wing ?
      no !!
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Pat # 193 # 49

Postby Pat » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:28 am


    22 cells given

    4.2..7....1.4.....9....38...8.....4.........17.3...2....7..83.....1....6....6..15 # Pat # 193 # 49
Code: Select all

 4 . 2 | . . 7 | . . .
 . 1 . | 4 . . | . . .
 9 . . | . . 3 | 8 . .
-------+-------+------
 . 8 . | . . . | . 4 .
 . . . | . . . | . . 1
 7 . 3 | . . . | 2 . .
-------+-------+------
 . . 7 | . . 8 | 3 . .
 . . . | 1 . . | . . 6
 . . . | . 6 . | . 1 5


2 solution-paths,
which would you prefer ?
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Re: The SUPERIOR THREAD (Second collection)

Postby ArkieTech » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:16 pm

re Pat # 193 # 49

569 naked triple in box 5
or
X-Wing r16 c48 => -6r235c8,r345c4

The x wing breaks the puzzle to remaining singles -- a better solution. 8-) imo
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