The hardest sudokus

Everything about Sudoku that doesn't fit in one of the other sections

Postby coloin » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:35 pm

i think it is in keeping with puzzle development the SE gets an upgrade. Moving the goalposts and the confusion generated Im sure we can cope with. If the upgrade is speedier, it might be possible to use it, I apreciate it might be quicker to recode it ! I await the SE121 ratings on those puzzles which stalled on it before.[coloin-4/13-1600 et al]

With regards the sx9 and sxt, by nature of it, there exists mathmatical "coupling" between them which makes for similar ratings. Certainly a comparitively low sxt is a good indicator of an "easier" puzzle. Which by implication means a relativly high sxt might be a good indicator of a harder puzzle.

Thanks for the info on the swords and jellies.

Where do we go from here ?

Heres a diversion.

Theres no doubt the "patterns game" has prompted the development of hard puzzles....

Lets just say I put these clues into a puzzle....2468,3579...[song].
Code: Select all
+---+---+---+
|1..|...|..9|
|.3.|...|.7.|
|...|2.4|...|
+---+---+---+
|..2|1.3|4..|
|...|.5.|...|
|..6|7.9|8..|
+---+---+---+
|...|6.8|...|
|.7.|...|.1.|
|9..|...|..3|
+---+---+---+ SE 10.6, -q1-95127, s8 M2, Sx9-977  Sxt-668  [6.7 Pearl?] [col-0801-01]

Nothing impressive apart from the -q1 .....but it has 8-fold symmetry.

But it is a base for many puzzles, and you can see the process easily with the puzzle and there are plenty of difficult puzzles very close to it.
Code: Select all
+---+---+---+
|1..|...|..9|
|.3.|...|.7.|
|...|2.4|...|
+---+---+---+
|..2|8.9|4..|
|...|.5.|...|
|..6|4.2|8..|
+---+---+---+
|...|6.8|...|
|.7.|...|..1|
|9..|...|.3.|
+---+---+---+ SE 9.9, -q1-95373, M2 Sx9-1181 Sxt-686 [7.9 Pearl?][col-0801-02]

Bi-value and tri-value cells are necessary for simple reductions to propagate and complete/solve a puzzle with a low number of clues.

The bivalue cells in B1B3B5B9 are what gives the 16-clue base the low grid solution count.[only 32600] - and a good proportion [x8] of these are isomorphic.

Ocean's pearl was the stimulus with the two clues in the corners, I took an Easter Monster type puzzle and removed one of the three corner box clues that had

line interaction with the solitary box clues. These clues were moved to the adjacent box to pair with the solitary clues.

There are plenty of templates which work this way, and in generating so many puzzles.....some are bound to be difficult.

With this insight into bivalue cells, I made this simplistic symetrical "Nuggett" pattern puzzle.
Code: Select all
+---+---+---+
|12.|...|...|
|3..|.5.|.6.|
|..4|...|7..|
+---+---+---+
|...|1..|..9|
|.5.|.2.|.8.|
|...|..3|4..|
+---+---+---+
|..6|..4|1..|
|.7.|.8.|...|
|...|9..|..8|
+---+---+---+ SE 8.3 [col-0801-03]


C
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Postby daj95376 » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:25 pm

This probably has nothing to do with anything, but I'll through it out anyway.

Code: Select all
# coloin-04/13-1426

1 . .|. . .|. . 2
. 9 .|4 . .|. 5 .
. . 6|. . .|7 . .
-----+-----+-----
. 5 .|3 . 4|. . .
. . .|9 6 .|. . .
. . .|. . 8|. 4 .
-----+-----+-----
. . 2|. . .|6 . .
. 3 .|. . 9|. 8 .
7 . .|. . .|. . 1

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  1        478      34578   |  5678     35789    3567    |  3489     6        2       |
|  238      9        378     |  4        12378    6       |  138      5        368     |
|  23458    248      6       |  1258     123589   1235    |  7        139      3489    |
|----------------------------+----------------------------+----------------------------|
|  2689     5        1789    |  3        127      4       |  1289     12679    6       |
|  2348     12478    13478   |  9        6        1257    |  12358    1237     3578    |
|  2369     6        1379    |  1257     1257     8       |  12359    4        35679   |
|----------------------------+----------------------------+----------------------------|
|  4589     148      2       |  1578     134578   1357    |  6        379      34579   |
|  6        3        145     |  12567    12457    9       |  245      8        457     |
|  7        468      4589    |  6        23458    2356    |  23459    239      1       |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
~~~~~ Templates
<1> =    29
<2> =    55
<3> =   148
<4> =    22
<5> =    56
<6> =     6
<7> =    55
<8> =   130
<9> =    18
~~~~~

There are six ways to place <6> in the initial PM.

Code: Select all
.......6......6.....6..............6....6.....6.............6..6...........6.....
.......6......6.....6..............6....6....6..............6.....6......6.......
.......6......6.....6......6............6............6......6.....6......6.......
.....6...........6..6.............6.....6.....6.............6..6...........6.....
.....6...........6..6.............6.....6....6..............6.....6......6.......
...6.............6..6.............6.....6.....6.............6..6.............6...

If you force each in turn and examine the results, then the puzzle always degenerates to finned fish with eliminations in <127> as the first step. Susbequent eliminations result in either a solution or too many <5> eliminations.

Code: Select all
1......62.9.4.6.5...6...7...5.3.4..6...96.....6...8.4...2...6..63...9.8.7..6....1

finned Swordfish c268\r357   <> 1  [r5c7]        w/fin=[r4c8]
finned Swordfish c268\r359   <> 2  [r5c7]        w/fin=[r4c8]
finned Swordfish c268\r157   <> 7  [r5c9]        w/fin=[r4c8]

Code: Select all
1......62.9.4.6.5...6...7...5.3.4..6...96....6....8.4...2...6...3.6.9.8.76......1

finned Swordfish r248\c357   <> 1  [r5c7],[r6c7] w/fin=[r4c8]
finned Swordfish r248\c157   <> 2  [r5c7],[r6c7] w/fin=[r4c8]
finned Swordfish r248\c359   <> 7  [r5c9],[r6c9] w/fin=[r4c8]

finned Swordfish r248\c358   <> 7  [r7c8]        w/fin=[r8c9]

Code: Select all
1......62.9.4.6.5...6...7..65.3.4......96.........8.46..2...6...3.6.9.8.76......1

finned Swordfish r248\c357   <> 1  [r5c7],[r6c7] w/fin=[r4c8]
finned X-Wing    r48\c57     <> 2  [r5c7],[r6c7] w/fin=[r4c8]
finned Swordfish r248\c359   <> 7  [r5c9]        w/fin=[r4c8]

Code: Select all
1....6..2.9.4...56..6...7...5.3.4.6....96.....6...8.4...2...6..63...9.8.7..6....1

finned Swordfish c268\r357   <> 1  [r3c45]       w/fin=[r2c5]
finned Swordfish c268\r359   <> 2  [r3c45]       w/fin=[r2c5]
finned Swordfish c268\r157   <> 7  [r1c45]       w/fin=[r2c5]

finned Swordfish c268\r257   <> 7  [r2c3]        w/fin=[r1c2]

Code: Select all
1....6..2.9.4...56..6...7...5.3.4.6....96....6....8.4...2...6...3.6.9.8.76......1

finned Swordfish r248\c357   <> 1  [r3c5]       w/fin=[r2c5]
finned Swordfish r248\c157   <> 2  [r3c5]       w/fin=[r2c5]
finned Swordfish r248\c359   <> 7  [r1c5]       w/fin=[r2c5]

r6c3    <> 1     finned mutant fish
r6c7    <> 2     finned mutant fish
r6c9    <> 7     finned mutant fish

Code: Select all
1..6....2.9.4...56..6...7...5.3.4.6....96.....6...8.4...2...6..63...9.8.7....6..1

finned Swordfish c268\r357   <> 1  [r3c45]       w/fin=[r2c5]
finned X-Wing    c26\r35     <> 2  [r3c45]       w/fin=[r2c5]
finned Swordfish c268\r157   <> 7  [r1c5]        w/fin=[r2c5]
daj95376
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Postby coloin » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:47 pm

Please tell me which of the 6 templates is the correct one !!!
EDIT it is first one !
Code: Select all
1......62.9.4.6.5...6...7...5.3.4..6...96.....6...8.4...2...6..63...9.8.7..6....1 SE 9.0
We did this here but stopped.....

Easter Monster had values of {8.18.18.32.39.41.41.130.148}

Number of clues, full complement of clue values does affect this, and of course any clues which are insertable by simple techniques.

Does Easter Monster succumb to this too.

Essentially you are adding 6 preposition clues, all possible ways and rating the puzzle on the successful way, and rating as to how difficult it is to say the other ways are invalid. [?how]

Quite nice.

Have we got a puzzle where min >8 and max is <148 ??

GN Perhaps ?

It possibly is as specific as ANY of our present methods.

Templates may be the solution to all sudoku mysteries !!!

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Postby tarek » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:23 pm

Obi-Wahn's list that lists Jelly conflicts in my latest 363 puzzles prompted me to check why some of the puzzles were absent from the taxonomy list when searched by Label.

It turned out that I posted several puzzles that were posted previously, mostly from coloin's previous post which was the only list prior to mine not present on the previous taxonomy list.

here are the isomorphs, the 1st chronologically are on the left
Code: Select all
tarek071223170000-113 & tarek071223170000-117
col-201107-M3-3       & tarek071223170000-196
col-201107-M3-4       & tarek071223170000-227
col-201107-M3-6       & tarek071223170000-151
col-201107-M3-7       & tarek071223170000-216
col-201107-M2-11      & tarek071223170000-158

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Postby coloin » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:26 pm

A bit more "experimentation" .......
Code: Select all
coloin-04/13-1426
1......62.9.4.6.5...6...7...5.3.4..6...96.....6...8.4...2...6..63...9.8.7..6....1   SE 9.0
Easter Monster
Code: Select all
+---+---+---+
|1..|...|..2|          clue counts  1-2   
|.9.|4..|.5.|                       2-2
|..6|...|7..|                       3-2
+---+---+---+                       4-2
|.5.|9.3|...|                       5-3
|...|.7.|...|                       6-2
|...|85.|.4.|                       7-3
+---+---+---+                       8-2
|7..|...|6..|                       9-3
|.3.|..9|.8.|
|..2|...|..1|
+---+---+---+

The templates with the least clue options will almost certainly have the clues with the most frequency

There is always 3 of one clue value if a puzzle has more than 18 clues.

There are 3 clue value with clue count 3 in EM, hard puzzles dont tend to have 4 of one clue value.

Essentially you are adding correct proposition clues to make the template.

With 3 clues [not in the same shute] it is possible to make the template by adding 3 more clues, but it is always possible to complete the template by adding 4 clues. [7 clues - there is always 2 singles to insert]

If you make up the template with another clue value of freq 2 - you are not comparing like with like as you are effectivly adding 4 or 5 clues.

Is this ER with the least favorable template predictive ??

Effectively we are chosing a template with "restricted" options, adding 3 or 4 clues in a way which helps the puzzle least, and then rating.
Code: Select all
Easter Monster
1.......2.9.4..15...61..7...519.3.......7..1....851.4.71....6...3..19.8...2.....1   SE 7.3
1.......229.4...5...6..27...5.923....2..7.......85.24.7.....62..3.2.9.8...2.....1   SE 7.1
1..3....2.934...5...6...73..5.9.3.......7.3..3..85..4.7.....6.3.3...9.8...2.3...1   SE 7.8
1.4.....2.9.4...5...6...7.445.9.3.......74......85..4.7...4.6...3...948..42.....1   SE 8.4
1....5..2.9.4...5.5.6...7...5.9.3.......7...5...85..4.7..5..6...35..9.8...2...5.1   SE 9.2   *
1......62.9.46..5...6...7...5.9.3..6...67.....6.85..4.7.....6..63...9.8...2..6..1   SE 7.2
17......2.9.4.7.5...6...7...5.9.3.7.....7......785..4.7.....6...3...9.87..27....1   SE 8.4
1...8...2.9.4...58.86...7...5.9.38....8.7.......85..4.7....86...3...9.8.8.2.....1   SE 6.6
1.....9.2.9.4...5...6.9.7...5.9.3...9...7.......85..497.9...6...3...9.8...2....91   SE 9.0

Golden Nugget
..1....39.....1..5..3.5.8.1..819...6.7...2.1.1..4......19.8..5..2..1.6..4..7..1..   SE 8.5
......239..2..1..5..325.8..2.8.9...6.7...2...1..4...2...9.8..52.2....6..4..72....   SE 8.4
.......39...3.1..5..3.5.8...38.9...6.7...23..1..43....3.9.8..5..2...36..4..7....3   SE 4.4
....4..39.....14.5.43.5.8....8.9..46.74..2...1..4.......9.84.5..2....6.44..7.....   SE 8.4
.5.....39.....1..5..3.5.8....8.9.5.6.7.5.2...1.54.......9.8..5.52....6..4..7.5...   SE 5.6
.....6.39.....1.656.3.5.8....8.9...6.7..62...16.4.......968..5..2....6..4.67.....   SE 7.2
7......39....71..5..3.5.87...8.97..6.7...2...1..4....7..9.8.75..27...6..4..7.....   SE 8.4
...8...398....1..5..3.5.8....8.9...6.7...2..81..4.8.....9.8..5..2....68.48.7.....   SE 9.3  *
.......39.9...1..5..3.598....8.9...697...2...1..4..9....9.8..5..2.9..6..4..7...9.   SE 9.1 
a "chink" in the nuggett ?

Seems to work on other puzzles too......
Code: Select all
coloin-04/13-1426                                                                                         
1.......2.9.4..15...61..7...5.3.4.1....961.....1..8.4..12...6...3..19.8.7.......1    SE 7.2   <1> =  29         
1.......229.4...5...6..27...5.324....2.96.........824...2...6...3.2.9.8.7......21    SE 7.2   <2> =  55         
1...3...2.934...5...6...73..5.3.4......96.3..3....8.4...2...6.3.3...9.8.7....3..1    SE 7.3   <3> = 148         
1.4.....2.9.4...5...6...7.4.5.3.4...4..96.........8.4...2.4.6...3...948.74......1    SE 9.0   <4> =  22         
1....5..2.9.4...5.5.6...7...5.3.4......96...5....58.4...25..6...35..9.8.7.....5.1    SE 9.1   <5> =  56         
1......62.9.4.6.5...6...7...5.3.4..6...96.....6...8.4...2...6..63...9.8.7..6....1    SE 9.0   <6> =   6         
17......2.9.47..5...6...7...573.4......96..7....7.8.4...2..76...3...9.877.......1    SE 7.3   <7> =  55         
1..8....2.9.4...58.86...7...5.3.48....896.........8.4.8.2...6...3...9.8.7...8...1    SE 7.2   <8> = 130       
1.....9.2.9.4...5...6.9.7..95.3.4......96.........8.49..2...69..3...9.8.7.9.....1    SE 9.1   <9> =  18 


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Postby Obi-Wahn » Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:57 pm

Finally the last of the top ranking puzzles for implication tabling is:
Code: Select all
coloin-04/13-1414
1.......2.9.4...5...6...7...5.3.4.......6........58.4...2...6...3...9.8.7.......1

Scoring 1 Star - 7 Jellies - 27 Swords

I will now try to code my new ideas to speed things up. I will also check if my assumption that only constraints that are affected by at least one of the propositions will lead to new implications. I proved that this is correct up to Jelly checks with 3 constraints, but I'm not sure if it is correct for 4 constraints also.
Therefor I might be missing some new implications through Star checks which may cut down the number of subsequent Jelly or Sword checks. This may particularly affect the score of coloin-04/13-1414 which gathered another 16 Swords after the Star check setting a new highscore.
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Postby coloin » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:46 pm

Two more puzzles subjected to speculative analysis

Code: Select all
.2.9..7..........2.......94.9.3...7......53....8..1.....5...6...6.2....71..6.8... # col0901-01   
.2.9..7......4...2.......94.9.3...7......53....8..1.....5...6...6.2....71....8... # col0901-02
         
             sx9    sxt   -q1                              SE         
col0901-01  3600    434   #  7089 FNP C21.m/M2.13.2016     SE 9.5                  SE                                   
                                                                                                       
.2.91.7........1.2.1.....94.913...7......53.1..8..1.....51..6...6.2...171..6.8...  7.6                 
.2.9..7..........2.....2.94.9.3..27.2....53....8.21.....5...62..6.2....71.26.8...  7.9                 
.239..7.........32....3..94.9.3...7......53..3.8..1.....5...6.3.6.2.3..713.6.8...  9.0                 
.2.9.47...4......2.......9449.3...7......53....8..1.4...5.4.6...642....71..6.84..  6.7                 
52.9..7.....5....2......594.9.3...75.....53...58..1.....5...6...6.25...71..6.8.5.  7.6                 
.2.9..76.....6...26......94.9.3.6.7...6..53....8..1..6..5...6...6.2....71..6.8...  9.1                 
.2.9..7.......7..2..7....94.9.3...7..7...53....87.1...7.5...6...6.2....71..678...  8.4                 
.2.9..7.88.......2...8...94.9.38..7......538...8..1....85...6...6.2..8.71..6.8...  2.0                 
.2.9..7....9.....2.......94.9.3...7.....953....8..19....5..96..96.2....71..6.8..9  8.9                 
523914768849567132617832594491386275276495381358721946785149623964253817132678459

              sx9    sxt   -q1                               SE       
# col0901-02  4078   1849   # 95515 FNP C21.m/M3.730.728     SE 9.6                SE                                 
                                                                                                       
.219..7.....14...2......194.9.3...71.1...53....8..1.....5...61..6.21...71....8...  7.6                 
.2.9..7......4...2.....2.94.9.32..7...2..53....8..12..2.5...6...6.2....71....8.2.  9.0                 
.2.9.37......4..323......94.9.3...7......53...38..1.....5.3.6...632....71....8..3  9.0                 
42.9..7......4...2.......94.943...7......534...84.1....45...6...6.2.4..71....84..  8.7                 
.2.95.7......4.5.2.5.....9459.3...7......53....8..1..5..5...6...6.2...571..5.8...  7.6                 
.2.9..7.6..6.4...2...6...94.9.3.6.7.6....53....8..1.6...5...6...6.2....71...68...  8.3                 
.2.9..7......47..2..7....94.9.3...7.....753..7.8..1.....57..6...6.2....717...8...  8.9                 
.2.9..78..8..4...2....8..94.9.3..87....8.53....8..1.....5...6.886.2....71....8...  3.0                 
.2.9..7..9...4...2.......94.9.3...7......53.9..8.91.....5..96...6.2..9.71.9..8...  7.9                 
421953786986147532357682194594326871612875349738491265245739618863214957179568423


questional specificity.....but not slow.

C
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Escargot

Postby jessified » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:38 am

This was an interesting puzzle. I see that it is an older puzzle, but I did it recently. Although I am not familiar with the formal language that many users here use, I have been spending a lot of time developing my sudoku techniques nonetheless.

I found that the AI Escargot puzzle could be reduced to 6 possible candidates and from there I gave each one an attempt. In that I mean column 3 (the given numbers as well as each of the candidate numbers) has only 6 possible solutions when looking at the column alone. After attempting each one, you will find that one of those candidates leads to the solution, with no more "guessing." I did not carry the others to completion after finding a solution as I trusted that it only had one unique solution. (By completion I mean either showing that it is an impossible path or showing that there is another solution.)

Is it possible to solve this puzzle without "guessing?"

Jesse
jessified
 
Posts: 1
Joined: 09 January 2008

Postby StrmCkr » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:02 am

yes it is possible to solve this puzzle with out guessing the method or solution has been discussed two years back

or so back starting with this suggestion
made by ravel on this thread

found here
http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/viewtopic.php?p=37083#p37083


Our good connections to Finland made it possible that i was able to see another exraordinary puzzle, published in a local newspaper there. It is the first puzzle, that neither could be solved by SE nor by my program. gsf's program needed other than the default settings (adding coloring) to give a rating.
Since it was already published i hope, the author, ArtoI, is not offended to see it here:

AI Etana (Snail)
Code: Select all
 
+-------+-------+-------+
| 1 . . | . . 7 | . 9 . |
| . 3 . | . 2 . | . . 8 |
| . . 9 | 6 . . | 5 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| . . 5 | 3 . . | 9 . . |
| . 1 . | . 8 . | . . 2 |
| 6 . . | . . 4 | . . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
| 3 . . | . . . | . 1 . |
| . 4 . | . . . | . . 7 |
| . . 7 | . . . | 3 . . |
+-------+-------+-------+
 


Using SimpleSudoku i saw 3 possible eliminations (using coloring and xy-wing), which help SE and my program to find a solution: r2c7<>4, r3c8<>3, r6c9<>3

The last one is enough for SE to continue, it gives a rating of 10.0 then.

The following eliminations then give a 3 in r6c8.
r2c7<>4, r3c8<>3, r6c9<>3, r6c8<>7, r6c8<>8, r5c1<>7, r5c8<>3.

The rest (ER 9.4) is routine for my program, which solves it in 9 steps. e.g.
r4c8<>4, r4c2<>8, r6c7<>8, r5c1<>7, r3c8<>4, r7c4<>7, r6c2<>9, r1c3<>4, r1c2<>5

Since my program cannot rate it, i will put it on top of my list, when i am through with JPF's puzzles.
As RW had announced, it is time for me to improve my program (to give comparable ratings also for those giant puzzles), but i will not have the time for it this year (and maybe then another public rating is available, that is better also from my point of view).


not sure on if u can read it or not. do a search for AI Etana
and catch up on your terminolgiy to mabe get a better grasp on what the move accomplished to solve it:)
happy hunting.
Some do, some teach, the rest look it up.
User avatar
StrmCkr
 
Posts: 627
Joined: 05 September 2006

Postby champagne » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:39 am

Hi,

COLOIN suggested weeks ago that I could try to classify the hardest puzzles with my process.

In fact what I can offer is just a comparison of processing times. The positive side is that this is factual. There are several negative aspects:
- This relates to a specific way to solve the puzzle, subject to changes in the code.
- The processing time under windows multiprocessing organization is not stable
- Puzzles that can not be solved can not be qualified.
- The program used is in a developing state, not yet a beta test .

As far as I could see, all changes I made recently in the process did not change significantly the order of magnitude of the processing time, so ranking done based on that processing time is as good (as bad) as others. It’s another view.

In the list shown here, some puzzles have “????” in place of a processing time. This means that the solver bugged on these puzzles. I’ll update the list when bugs will have been cleared;

Out of these bugs, all puzzles could be solved.

The process used has been described here

http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/viewtopic.php?t=5624

Examples given here

http://forum.enjoysudoku.com/viewtopic.php?t=5752

In the list of puzzles, the processing time (seconds) is the last number.

Compared to what was given in “full tagging examples”, I introduced small improvements (in terms of solving quality, processing time in not the target), so the reference list is now;

Code: Select all
coloin-04-10_02805   4s250
JPF 04/07/01 (Easter Monster)   32s343
dml #155   131 s   40s766
# m_b_metcalf  24s391
Golden Nugget  134s500

Anybody having looked at the previous figures can have noticed that I gave lower numbers in the past for some of these puzzles.

I worked on the puzzles described by COLOIN and TAREK in page 48 of this thread.

COLOIN list is the range 3 to 58 seconds.
Top part of TAREK’s list (125 shown here) is in the range 1 to 136 seconds, but with a great number of puzzles over 50 and several puzzles in the vicinity of Golden Nugget.

From my experience, over 2 seconds, puzzles are normally exceeding human capacity, unless spending much time on it.


COLOIN list

Code: Select all
..34..7.......9...6...2....29..64..............83..4....5.....18...3.5.....5...74 # col-201107-M3-1  9s500
.2...6.8.4..7.......9.3.....1......8......42......8.513..9.......7.4.....6...2..5 # col-201107-M3-2  34s453
1......8......913.......5.6..7.4....3....1.5..6.2.....5....89...4..7......26..... # col-201107-M3-3  16s187
1......89.....913.........6..7.4....3....1.5..6.2.....5....89...4..7......26..... # col-201107-M3-4  16s110
..3.5....4....9.2..8.1......1..3......58.....9....4.7........376.....4.2.....29.6 # col-201107-M3-5  19s609
1......8......913.......5.4..7.4.....6.2.....9....1.5...26.....5....89...4..7.... # col-201107-M3-6  5s500
.......89..6...1.....2..6.5..15..9..8....3....4..7....3....8.....21....6.7..4.... # col-201107-M3-7  21s766
...4..7....71.9...68..7....2..........1.9.8...3......5..8.1.6..5..7....3.......2. # col-201107-M3-8  7s328
1....6..9..7.8.2..8......5....9..........5.6..7..1.8...34......7...2.4....2..7... # col-201107-M3-9  7s312
..3...7..4....92...8.7....5.7.6...5.....4....9....3....1.8..5..5.......87......61 # col-201107-M3-10  8s907

...4...8......92..6...7...1.7..6...3.....8.9....2..4..53..1......2.......61.....7 # col-201107-M2-11  5s469
..3..6.8....1......9..7.......53..4......46.8..4.....2.1.......7..9..4....5..3.6. # col-201107-M2-12 6s125
..3.......567.....78......6....3.9....81....7.1...2.4.....9.3..8..5....1.....4.2. # col-201107-M2-13 15s641
.2...67..4...8......9...........5..3.3.....276.1...5......4....8..9....5.6...72.. # col-201107-M2-14 12s687
..3.5.7..4....9....8.1......1.8.......5.7.6..9....4.........86...2...37.....3..25 # col-201107-M2-15 20s641
.2..56...4.....1....8........1...8...7..3...29......4.....67..5...9......6.3.5..7 # col-201107-M2-16 17s891
1.......2.3.4...5...6...7...9.54.......3.9.......86.4...2...1...5...8.3.7.......6 # col-201107-M2-17 58s156
...4....9....8.2..6....7.1....9....4....2.8...3...1.7..71..5...56....3....9....5. # col-201107-M2-18 18s594
..34......5...9...6...2..1...43......9...5.6.8...6..2.........87...1...2......671 # col-201107-M2-19 8s484
..3...7...5.7....3......56.2...9........4.....8.6...3..7.8..3....4.2...19.......8 # col-201107-M2-20 8s797

.23......45...9.3...9.2........4...1....7.6...4...2.5...4..5.9.8.....1......6...7 # col-201107-M2-21  18s422
..34..7.......9...6...2....29..64..............83..4....5.....18...3.5.....5...74 # col-201107-M3-1 9s375
...4..7......8.1..7....3..62....7.6...89......74......3....56......9..25........3 # col-201107-M2-22 ????
...4567....7.8.........7..12...7..9..3.........8..56....6..45..........3.9.....2. # col-201107-M2-23 4s188
.2....7..4...8.1....91...6...59..6.........93.......5.....41.....13....68...2.... # col-201107-M2-24 8s578
.2.4..7.........32........4.9.3...7.....95...8....1...5.....9...4.9....7..1..86.. # col-201107-M2-25 11s469
....5..8....7...3..8...3..6.3...86....5....1...7.9.......9..2.4.1...4.6.........1 # col-201107-M2-26 5s31
..34..7......8.........2..62...17.....93...7.8.............195...59..3.7......4.. # col-201107-M2-27 3s687
...4567....7.8.........7..123.6...9............8..56....6..45..........3.9.....2. # col-201107-M2-28 3s469
..34..7......8.........2..62...1......93...7.87............195...59..3.7......4.. # col-201107-M2-29 3s625
1.....7.9........2..9.2..4...1.9...45....8.6....3.....3..5...1.8..........7.1.4.. # col-201107-M2-30 16s359
..34..7......8...3.....2..62.4.1......93...7.8.............195...59....7......4.. # col-201107-M2-31 9s954
....5..8....7...3..8...1..6.3...86....7.9......5....1....9..2.4.1...4.6.........1 # col-201107-M2-32 5s406
..34..7......8.1..7....2..62....56.........95........2.74........83.....9....7.6. # col-201107-M2-33 7s703
.2..5.7....6..9......1....6..4.......7..2.8..9.1..........4.257.4......8...3..4.. # col-201107-M2-34 2s906
1...5...9......2.....7...4...........3.2.4.7.9...6...53....8.5..91.....3.6..3.... # col-201107-M2-35 10s125




TAREK list

UPDATED 17 Jan 2008

Code: Select all
#tarek071223170000-003 45s407
#tarek071223170000-088 7s78
#tarek071223170000-103 101s78
#tarek071223170000-109 10s281

Code: Select all
.......39.....1..5..3.5.8....8.9...6.7...2...1..4.......9.8..5..2....6..4..7.....#tarek071223170000-001#GN_Pearly3045-1812#95657#3464#2141   136s16
........5.4..7..3.2.9...1...7.6.8.......4.......7.3.6...1...2...3..8..4.5.......9#tarek071223170000-002##70107#2953#1848  ????
4.......1.7..9..2...8...5...3.9.6.......7.......3.2.6...5.......2..6..7.1.....4.8#tarek071223170000-003##95249#2868#1756  45s407
3.......2.8..7..1...69......5.7.4...........8...5.1.7...9...3...1..4..8.2.......6#tarek071223170000-004##67650#2552#1588  70s532
3.......2.8..7..1...69......5.7.4...........8...51..7...9...3...1..4..8.2.......6#tarek071223170000-005#Pearly3045-1801#99072#2511#1537   111s438
5..9......3..8..4...7...2...6.8.1.......3.6.......4.1...2...5...4..1..3.9.......7#tarek071223170000-006##95009#2283#1487   45s687
...6....1.9..3..8.2.....7...3...8...5.4.9.......3...5...7...6...8..4..9.1.......2#tarek071223170000-007##95771#2324#1472   53s641
.....8..7.3..9..4...5...1...2.6.9.....4.2.........3.6...1...8...4..6..9.7.......5#tarek071223170000-008##95730#2278#1465   41s953
6.......2.1..8..4...7...9...3.8.4...1............35.8......96...5..4..1....2....7#tarek071223170000-009##95230#2054#1451   92s594
...6....7.4..9..3...8...1...9.3.2...5...........4.9.2...1...6...5..3..4.7.......8#tarek071223170000-010##95482#2252#1417   60s250
9.......8.3..6......4..97...5...6.......1...2...5.3.1...7...9.4.6..2..3.8........#tarek071223170000-011##28563#2071#1400   37s859
...6....8.3..5..4...1...7...5.2.......9.3.......5.4.2...7...6...4..9..3.8.......1#tarek071223170000-012##73973#2142#1393   54s891
9....4....3..6..7...5...8...2.1.6.......7...3...2...1...8...9...7..1..6.4.......5#tarek071223170000-013##96118#2012#1338   48s78
.......1...5..68..7.......4.2..59........8.....63..9..4..6....2.1......7..8.9.5..#tarek071223170000-014##95366#1854#1325   25s234
7.......5.8..6..9...2...1...6...9...8.7.4.......6.3.8...1.......3..9..4.5.......2#tarek071223170000-015##95269#2694#1322   29s218
9.......1.2..5..9...7..98...4.6.5.......3.9.....4.2.6...1.......5..6..2.8.......7#tarek071223170000-016##60750#2385#1317   27s563
........1.7...9.2.4.8...6.....25..3......7....5.93....1.....8...3...5.7...6.....4#tarek071223170000-017##98604#2050#1307   13s921
..4.....5.8..3..7...1...2...6.4.3.......9.7.....6.8.4...2.......3..4..8.5..3....1#tarek071223170000-018##95015#2318#1306   38s547
6.........3..9..4...7...1...2.9.4...5...3.......2.8.9.......6...4..8..3.1....5..7#tarek071223170000-019##95407#2119#1301   19s969
7.......4.6..2..9...1...3...5.8.2.......9......95.6.8......37...2..8..6.4.......1#tarek071223170000-020#Pearly3045-2180#91001#1980#1295   26s375
4.......6.9..7..1...2...5...1.3.7.......1.......9.8.7.......4...8..3..9.6.5.....2#tarek071223170000-021##98827#2014#1256   39s766
7.....8...2..1..6...5.......3...9.......2.1.3.....6.9...84..7...6..9..1.4.......5#tarek071223170000-022##95141#2228#1253   41s890
2.......6.5..9..2...4..27...8.5.9.......3...2...8.1.5...7.......9..5..3.6.......4#tarek071223170000-023##95748#1903#1252   16s297
........6.5..9..8...2..47...9...1...3...5.8.....9...3...74......8..1..5.6.......2#tarek071223170000-024##95562#2773#1244   63s109
1....7....9..5..2...3...4...8...5...6...9.......8.2.6...4...1...2..6..5.7.......3#tarek071223170000-025##95030#1844#1239   30s625
2.......6.9..1..8...7...3...4.5.8.......4...1...9...5...32......1..5..9.6.......7#tarek071223170000-026##98803#2039#1231   63s125
..7.....5.9..4..3...1...2...8.4.3.......9.......8.6.4...2...7...6..3..9.5.......1#tarek071223170000-027##97509#2016#1230  17s140
5.......4.2..1......3..58...976.1.......2...7...9...6...8...5...1..6..7.4.......3#tarek071223170000-028#Pearly3045-2242#67544#2001#1226  56s281
2.....1...5..9..7...4..6....3...7...9.8.5.......3...9...1...2...8..7..5.6.......4#tarek071223170000-029##96813#2002#1217   34s766
8.......7.4..9..3...1...6...2.5.........3.2.9...4...5...68......9..5..4.7.......1#tarek071223170000-030##95246#2036#1217   28s156
8.......4....9..3...14..7...6.3.5.....2..........69.5...7...1...2..3..9.4.......8#tarek071223170000-031#Pearly3045-1872#95209#2331#1211   87s969
........1.8..4..5.2.6...7...5.3.4.......9.......8.5.4...7...2...9..3..8.1.......6#tarek071223170000-032##98760#1890#1182   19s500
4.......3.6..8..1......75...1..62...8...........9.1.8...5...7...9..2..6.3.......4#tarek071223170000-033##95006#1814#1182   27s31
3.......7.9..2......5..38...4.69..........1.....4.2.9...8...3...1..4..6.7.......5#tarek071223170000-034##95034#1881#1175   114s953
..57....2.1..3..9.......6...3...8...4...1.......3.9.4...6.......9..8..1.2.....7.5#tarek071223170000-035##87618#1994#1167   42s891
4.......8.5..2..4...6..49...7.3.2.......5.7.......1.3...9...4...2..3..5.8.......6#tarek071223170000-036#Pearly3045-2158#94970#2025#1161   120s203
2.......9.8..7..6...3...5...4.7.1...8............46.7....5..2...6..1..8.9.......3#tarek071223170000-037##95231#1901#1159   91s31
.....1..7.2..5..8...4...9...6.3.2.....8..........65.3...9...1...8..3..6.7.......4#tarek071223170000-038##95734#1838#1142   37s672
7.......8.3..1..4...6...9...5.1.2.......5.......3.4.1.......7...4..2..3.8.9.....6#tarek071223170000-039##95245#1863#1138   16s328
1.......2.8..5..6...7...4...9.5.8.....6.3.........9.5...4...7...6..8..3.2..1.....#tarek071223170000-040##95212#1807#1137   57s859
7.......3.1..4..9...8...6...5.2.4.......5.......1.9.4.......7...9..2..1.3.6.....8#tarek071223170000-041##95578#1855#1124   16s985
8.......5.6..2..9...7...1...2...9...6...4.......2.3.6...1...8...3..9..4.5.......7#tarek071223170000-042#Pearly3045-1846#95306#1855#1115   26s625
...5....9.8..6..3.5.2...4...3...7...1...8...3.....6.1...4.......6..7..8.9.......2#tarek071223170000-043##95014#1880#1114   21s797
1.........4..5..3...2...6.1.5...8...7...4.......5.3.7...6...9...8..7..4.9.......2#tarek071223170000-044##96111#2083#1106   8s609
.........17..3.4...2.8...6.4.....7.5.............5.3147...1...3..62......8...9...#tarek071223170000-045##92747#2002#1104   22s641
4..6....5....8..1...9...6...7.8.3.....2.........7.1.3...6.......1..3..2.5.....4.9#tarek071223170000-046##95108#1802#1093   39s172
........4.9..3..7.6.5...8...1.2.3.......6.7.....1.9.2...8.......3..2..9.4..3....5#tarek071223170000-047##95177#1809#1087   25s875
9.......3.1..6..2...8...5...7...6.......2.7.4.....1.6....9.5....2..4..1.3.......8#tarek071223170000-048##96725#1795#1085   69s16
.....3..4.7..2..9...5...8...6.1.2.....9..........67.1...8...3...9..1..6.4.......5#tarek071223170000-049##95721#1825#1078   41s500
4.....9...1..5......6..4..8.7.325...............7.1.3...9...4...5..3..1.8.......6#tarek071223170000-050#Pearly3045-2234#72617#2352#1072   52s437
7..6....2.9..1......6..34...8.5.1.......3.......8.9.5...4...7...1..5..8.2.......6#tarek071223170000-051#Pearly3045-2773#11444#1870#1072   44s329
..1..4.......6.3.5...9.....8.....7.3.......285...7.6..3...8...6..92......4...1...#tarek071223170000-052##98822#2861#1057   10s125
2.........6..3..8...9...7...5.3.1.......4.6.....5.8.3...7...2...8..1..6.4.......9#tarek071223170000-053##95325#3092#1054   41s968
9....23....1........716....2......49.....95....3.....8.6..7....3....4.2..1.8.....#tarek071223170000-054##95074#2041#1038   3s313
7.......4.9..6..5...1...3...8.6.2.......9.......8.5.6.3.....7...5..2..9.4.......1#tarek071223170000-055##95914#1797#1037  ????
7......1....6.59..........2.9.3.4.......8.....6.9.74...3...96..2.......8..1....7.#tarek071223170000-056##95628#1756#1034   11s390
8.......9.7..1..8...5..83...6.2.1.......8...4...6.7.2...3.......1..2..7.9.......5#tarek071223170000-057##59254#1888#1022   22s500
8.........2..1..6...5...9.8.3.1.....7...2.......3.6.7.......4...6..7..2.4.9.....5#tarek071223170000-058##95798#1994#1021  6s453
..4..9.......5.2.3...1.....6.....8.2.......763...8.5..2...6...5..1..7....9...4...#tarek071223170000-059##95310#2467#1021  11s781
7.6.....1.9..5......5..78...3.425...............3.9.4...8...7...5..4..9.1.......6#tarek071223170000-060#Pearly3045-2740#12976#1900#1012   72s844
7.....6...8..2..7...17..4...5.3.2.......9.......5.8.3...4...7...2..3..5.6.......1#tarek071223170000-061#Pearly3045-2283#54108#1987#1004   53s953
5.......7.9..4..6...8...1...2.4.6.......9.......2.3.4.1.....5...6..3..9.7.......8#tarek071223170000-062##95914#1838#998   24s62
6.......5.8..3..7...1...2...6.4.3.......9.7.....6.8.4...2.......3..4..8.5....7..1#tarek071223170000-063##95144#2145#990   11s578
7.........4.5.3.....8...9.....2.1.3.....6.....1.35..2.9.....7...3...2.1...6.....8#tarek071223170000-064##96110#1604#984   48s79
8.........2..9..1...6...7.8.4...9...5...2.......4.1.5...7...3...1..5..2.3.......6#tarek071223170000-065##95202#2037#984   6s609
2.........4.3.8.....9...1...7.5...8.....63......8.4.3.1.....2...3...5.4...6.....9#tarek071223170000-066##95334#1864#982   8s844
5.......8.3...2.4...9...1......27.3....5.4....7.63....8.....9...4.7...6...1.....5#tarek071223170000-067#Pearly3045-2228#73873#1831#978   64s15
7.......2.6...9.3...5.....4...6.1......9.8....8..3..6.2.....5...9.8...1.....4...7#tarek071223170000-068##85290#2089#977   8s953
4.........2.7.8.....1...3...6.57..8.....9.......8.6.5.3.....4...8...5.6...9.....1#tarek071223170000-069##96110#1615#974   50s875
2....89....4.6......54.....8......9......271.......8.3.6..5....7....9.8..4.3.....#tarek071223170000-070##95028#1927#971   4s719
1.......7.3..9..4...5...2...8.6.9.......7........83.6...2...1...4..6..3.7.......5#tarek071223170000-071##95541#1592#969   17s688
..7..1...6...9.2...3.5.....9.....6.8.......3.....8..922...4...9..13......5...7...#tarek071223170000-072##98776#1679#966   51s484
2....67....1.5......81.....6......32.....247.........9.5..8....7....3.6..1.9.....#tarek071223170000-073##95441#2456#961   4s766
6....78......1.....124.....7......56.....638.........9..1.2....3....5.7...49.....#tarek071223170000-074##95827#2093#960   6s406
..3..2.......8.6.7...1.....7.....5.9..6....4.9...5....6...9.8....14...6..2...3...#tarek071223170000-075##95573#1484#960   9s141
4....16....8.3......78.....1......24.....49....6.....5.3..7....6....2.1..8.5.....#tarek071223170000-076##95051#1980#958   3s78
9.......4....5..3...24..1...7.8.6.....3..........75.6...1...2...3..8..5.4.......9#tarek071223170000-077##95395#1813#956   77s531
2....39.....16.....64......3......72.....259.........8..6.4....9....7.3..1.8.....#tarek071223170000-078##95013#1922#956   4s344
8.......3.7..2..9...1...5...8.6.2.......4.9.....8.7.6...5.......2..6..7.3....4..1#tarek071223170000-079##12759#2141#955   6s125
1.......4.6...8.9...5...7.....6.3.....49.2....2.8...3.......5...9.2...8...7.....1#tarek071223170000-080#Pearly3045-1818#95560#2872#951   7s297
7.......5.9..3..6...1...2...8.3.4.....6.9.......8...3...2...1...6..4..9.5..7.....#tarek071223170000-081##95823#1489#948   52s0
7.......5....9..3...15..4...6.2.9.....3..........86.2...4.....1.3..2..6.5.......7#tarek071223170000-082##95629#1687#948   50s734
4.......8.6..7..2...9...3...1.7.....5...6.......1.2.5...3.......2..5..6.8.....4.9#tarek071223170000-083##95673#1589#947   7s781
4....82....7.3......97.....8......2......416..4......5.3..9....1....2.8..7.5.....#tarek071223170000-084##95051#2058#943   4s94
9....73.....52.....24.....77......9......183.........6..2.4....3....9.7..5.6.....#tarek071223170000-085##86575#1669#942   1s484
8.........5.9.4.....7...6...2.3...4.....1.......2.5.9.6...9.8...9...3.5...1.....7#tarek071223170000-086##95087#1958#941   5s547
9....41....7.6......57.....4......2......931..9......8.6..5....1....2.4..7.8.....#tarek071223170000-087##95143#2433#938   4s16
.....8..1.4..9..3...7...6...8...3...9...4.5.....8.2.9...6.......2..3..4.1.......7#tarek071223170000-088##95055#2037#936   7s78
7.........8..5..2...1...4...3.5.6.......9.8.....3.2.6...4...7...2..6..8.9.......1#tarek071223170000-089##95181#2041#932   14s813
........9.1..7..2...4..53...8.6.7.......5...2...8.1.6...3...2...2..6..1.9.......4#tarek071223170000-090##54418#1988#930   20s250
6.........7..1..8...32..4...8..51...9...........8.7.9...4...6...5..9..1.2.......3#tarek071223170000-091##95475#1374#924   14s359
9....61.....23.....38......6......19.....975.........4..3.8....5....1.6..2.4.....#tarek071223170000-092##95163#1927#921   5s828
9.......4....5..3...24..1...7.8.5.....3..........76.8...1...2...3..8..7.4.......9#tarek071223170000-093##96134#1574#917   26s906
........8.4..3..7...1..86...2.9.3.......5...7...2.4.9...6...7...3..9..4.5.......1#tarek071223170000-094##25486#1830#917   43s360
3.......1.9..5..2...4...7...8.5.....6...9.......8.2.6...7.......2..6..9.1.....4.3#tarek071223170000-095##95149#1486#916   10s219
4....16.....83.....37......1......4......296.......1.5..3.7....6....4.1..8.5.....#tarek071223170000-096##86575#1680#914   1s484
9.......8.3...5.4...6...7...1..49.5....2........531...8.....6...4...2.3...7.....9#tarek071223170000-097##95597#1511#910   24s531
...8....2.8..9..5...6...1...9...3...4.7.8.......9.5.4...1.......5..3..8.2.......6#tarek071223170000-098##39690#2007#907   16s188
2.......5.4..9..3...7.......6.9.....8...4.1.....6.3.8...........3..8..4.5.4...2.7#tarek071223170000-099##2135#1859#905   4s140
4.......1....3..2...81..5...6.7.3.....2..........69.7...5...8...2..7..3.1.......4#tarek071223170000-100##95734#1408#904   42s250
7.........6.1.3.....5...2.....4.1.3.....8.....9.63..1.2.....7...3...4.6...8.....5#tarek071223170000-101##96314#1678#898   14s610
9.......2.8..7..3...6...4...7.8.3.......1.7.......5.8...4...9...5..3..1.2.......6#tarek071223170000-102##98775#1399#894   9s984
3.....9...7...1.5...2.....4....76.1....3.5....6.81....4.....2...5.6...8...9.....3#tarek071223170000-103#Pearly3045-2191#86523#1817#893  101s78
3.........2..8..7...9..5..4.6.8.7.....1.2.......6...8...4...3...1..7..2.5.......9#tarek071223170000-104#Pearly3045-1819#95559#1382#892   35s703
4....87....3.6......13.....8......74.....495.........2.6..1....9....7.8..3.2.....#tarek071223170000-105##95063#2089#888   4s765
9.......6.7...3.8...2...4.......1.3.....6.....8.5.7...6.....2...5.8...7...4.....9#tarek071223170000-106##95894#1331#888   46s610
7.........3.8.4.....6...9...5.1.9.4.....2.......4.5.1.9.....7...4...1.3...2.....6#tarek071223170000-107##95550#1362#884   13s359
7....12...3..9......58....7..7.....3.4.....5.6.....9..9....31......6..8...25....4#tarek071223170000-108#FD44#95163#1222#883   37s578
412..........7..9...81..2...6.5.7.....9..........63.5.......4...9..5..7.1.......8#tarek071223170000-109##95251#1949#882  10s281
3.......7....4..8...97..1...5.2.6.....8..........54.2...1...9...8..2..6.7.......3#tarek071223170000-110##95973#1603#881   47s406
7.......1.3..9..4...5...2...8.6.9.......4.8.....3...6...2...7...9..6..3.1.......5#tarek071223170000-111#Pearly3045-1813#95641#1454#873  11s78
5.........2..4..1...3...8...9.4.6.......2.7.....9.1.6...8...5...4..6..2.7.......3#tarek071223170000-112##95064#1800#865   12s485
........3...4.1.9...6...8...1.7.2.......5.....7.1.6.2...3.....6.9...7.1.8.....5..#tarek071223170000-113##95550#1373#862   13s328
1.........8.5.3.....2...9...4.7...3.....6.......384.5.9.....1...3...7.4...6.....2#tarek071223170000-114#Pearly3045-1809#96358#2385#861   8s781
9.......4.1...5.8...2...6...5..83.1.....6.....3.1.7...4.....2.....3.1.7.........9#tarek071223170000-115##95540#1988#849   12s484
..9.....6.1.8..3..2......7..3.5.8.......24......1..4...4...18....7....6...2.....9#tarek071223170000-116##95300#1348#845   4s657
6.........8.2.1.....9...7.....4.3.1.....5.....3.1.7.4.7.....6...1...4.8...5.....9#tarek071223170000-117##95550#1388#838   13s265
..9.....3.5...2.6.4.....7.....5.8.2....19.....1...6...3.....9...2.8...5...7.....4#tarek071223170000-118##95019#1949#837   10s391
6.........2..4..5...9...1...8.4.7.......2.3.....8.5.4...1...6...5..7..2.3.......9#tarek071223170000-119##95114#2115#834   17s984
........2.7..6..15..31..4...8.9.6.......5.......8.7.9...4.......6..9..7.2....1..3#tarek071223170000-120#Pearly3045-2239#68264#1997#830   32s657
....9.8.......4.1..6.2....3.3........56.2...7.275..........84.....6....26...1..9.#tarek071223170000-121##91934#1825#830   25s343
9.2.....5....1..8...35..2...4.7.1.....8..........46.7.......9...8..7..6.5.......3#tarek071223170000-122##95507#1787#828   20s641
...1....6.5..2..9...7...3...2...4...8...5.......2.9.1...3.......9..4..5.6....1..7#tarek071223170000-123##23183#1864#825   21s516
........1.4..3..2...94..6...7.5.3.......8.2.....7.4.5...6.......3..5..4.1....8..9#tarek071223170000-124##11477#1971#818   9s62
..........4..5..3...2...6.1.8.5.9...1...4.......8.3.9.......7...3..9..4.7.6.....2#tarek071223170000-125##95017#2312#816   15s641
Last edited by champagne on Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby coloin » Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:55 pm

Nice work - I did suspect that your solving application could provide a rating system, although subjective, the standardization of solving and length of time is a reasonable variable to compare.

coloin wrote:Have we got a puzzle where min >8 and max is <148 ??

GN Perhaps ?


sudoku -f'%#r#.P' .......39.....1..5..3.5.8....8.9...6.7...2...1..4.......9.8..5..2....6..4..7.....
'47.37.108.38.32.96.52.12.16'

Code: Select all
GN = 12,16,32,37,38,47,52,96,108


I rather liked daj95376 's method

Code: Select all
Essentially you are adding 6 preposition clues, all possible ways and rating the puzzle on the successful way, and rating as to how difficult it is to say the other ways are invalid. [?how]


I have been adding preposition clues to a few very hard puzzles and it is very difficult to not loose ER value, Filling a full box with 5 or 6 clues always reduces ER a lot.

Except......completing a template by adding 6 clues...

The max values of GN=9.3, EM=9.2, look quite good, but there are very many ways to add 6 preposition clues.

C
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Postby tarek » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:50 pm

i have another idea but I'm not sure if it is worthwhile! it has to do with the solution grid.

on a number of occasions difficult puzzles have more difficult neighbours with the same solution grid.

has anyone tried to add supurflous clues over a difficult puzzle using a certain diagonal templete then minimise to search for more difficult ones in the vicinity ?

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Postby coloin » Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:18 pm

I think this might/maybe would be covered by the {+1-1}xn process, but not if you were changing more clues at once.

Going down from 21 to 20 clues didnt get any hard puzzles, but going up from 21 to 22 might be possible - there are x 10 more puzzles at {+3-2}.

I think I found puzzles close to EM, with its grid here

Edit
Repeating with EM
21 clues , {+3-3} - 227 min puzzles, no new hards
22 clues, {+3-2} 2500 min puzzles, 1x q1 @40000 only.
23 clues {+3-1} 3500 min puzzles

I know Im making the "shoe fit" but
Code: Select all
+---+---+---+
|3..|...|..2|
|.8.|.7.|.1.|
|..6|9..|...|
+---+---+---+
|.5.|7.4|...|
|...|...|..8|
|...|51.|.7.|
+---+---+---+
|..9|...|3..|
|.1.|.4.|.8.|
|2..|...|..6|
+---+---+---+ #tarek071223170000-005#Pearly3045-1801#99072#2511#1537
              #Champ-111s438 #Raj-'9.28.49.96.95.63.32.12.36'

puzzle,1-template added, 8-template added.
3.......2.8..7..1...69......5.7.4...........8...51..7...9...3...1..4..8.2.......6  SE ?.?
3.......2.8..7..1.1.69......5.7.4.........1.8...51..7...9...3...1..4..8.2..1....6  SE 9.2
3.....8.2.8..7..1...698.....5.7.4...........8...518.7...9...3...1..4..8.2.8.....6  SE 9.2


This puzzle would appear to be up there with the hardest !

EDIT - which it is because, it is no 2 in the taxonomy as tarek-1801

C
Last edited by coloin on Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tarek » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:33 am

coloin wrote:3.......2.8..7..1...69......5.7.4...........8...51..7...9...3...1..4..8.2.......6 SE ?.?
.
.
.
This puzzle would appear to be up there with the hardest !

EDIT - which it is because, it is no 2 in the taxonomy as tarek-1801

I performed an SE121 check on 17 puzzles in the previou spage of this thread.... the puzzle had an SE121 of 11.3 (so probably SE12 of 11.1)

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Postby coloin » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:15 pm

Perhaps we need to look at this another way........

We have a large number of puzzles which can be shown to be difficult in various ways.......

We can add clues to a puzzle and show that they are easily solvable with just 2 and sometimes 3 preposition clues.[M2/M3]

Looking at it the other way - how about we handicap the puzzle and then just see how "hard" it is !

Completing templates with 6 clues was an easy way to scupper a hard puzzle. Except it would be difficult to believe that these 6 clues were the best/worst, as there are just under a million ways to add 6 clues to a 21 clue puzzle.

A bit of adding clues to Golden Nuggett gives these two non-minimal puzzles.
Code: Select all
.......39.....1..5..3.5.8....8.9...6.7...2...1..4.......9.8..5..2....6..4..7..... # 96576 FNP C21.m/M2.1.164025  11.5
...8...39.....1.65..3.5.8....8.9...6.7...2...1..4.8.....9.8..5..2....6..4..7..... # 95644 FNP C24/M2.5.41984     10.7   
...8...39.....1.65..3.598....8.9...6.7...2..81..4.8.....9.8..5..2.9..6..4..7..... # 11900 FNP C27/M2.96.136       9.6   

This must reflect well on the minimal puzzle.
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