The New Sudoku Players' Forum

Website · by **denis_berthier** » Sun Sep 07, 2025 6:37 am

Paquita wrote:The Nature link is interesting I think.

This report may be different from the totally ridiculous one I was thinking of in my first answer.

Paquita wrote: It uses Platinum Blonde as hardest example.

"While the escape rate correlates surprisingly well with human ratings of Sudoku hardness..."
It doesn't give the slightest definition of these "human ratings". I adore the "s" in ratings. Especially as the "human ratings" don't correlate with each other. So, this claim is pure BS.

Paquita wrote: it is natural to expect a correlation with the number of clues,

It has been known for decades that this is not true (much before the report, published in 2012). This confirms what the previous remark already suggested, i.e. that the authors don't know much about Sudoku.

Paquita wrote:
our continuous-time dynamical system was designed to solve k-SAT formulae in conjunctive normal form (CNF)
the software they used is not given in this scientific report

The report is one among possibly thousands that consider Sudoku as a k-SAT problem and among possibly hundreds that approach it in the "chaos" perspective. I don't know either which software they used, perhaps some of their own. BTW, there are tens of publicly available k-SAT solvers.
This is irrelevant to my work, as k-SAT is not pattern-based, let alone the "chaos" way of solving k-SAT problems.
.

by **coloin** » Mon Sep 08, 2025 12:07 pm

Great work in finding new puzzles....
For my part there is not a discernible path in the {-1+1} propagation of the vicinity search on BxB6 minimal puzzles.
The breakthrough in optimizing this was to take the opportunity to expand, twin minimize and then expand [-e] the new BxB6 puzzles.
It was easier to manage the expanded puzzles when purging. After a {-1+1} on new minimals these were expanded and then purged. [from 250,000 expanded bxb6 puzzles]

The Bxb7+ puzzles were mostly found when minimizing the new expanded BxB6 puzzles.
new TE3 puzzles were also found and were included in the {-1+1}

by **coloin** » Mon Sep 08, 2025 12:09 pm

Well done in finding those ones... I think many of them are not in my next 2 batches... which makes me think there are many more to find...

However I was wondering about other [ without tridagon] TE2 puzzles....., and as I previously posted I was finding it impossible to find any new BxB5 puzzles !

So I took from file01 the old hardest list with 19411 puzzles with SE 11.3 and above
Min expanded the gsf -e this reduced the number to rate to 12226 expanded puzzles.
This also produced 362 probably new twin puzzles.....

Ive morphed the expanded puzzles [where expansion is possible] to the ultimately more user friendly minlexsolutiongrid puzzle.

Ive also added champagnes grid rank and code for formal identification.

analysing the 12226 puzzles revealed this distribution ....explaining why it was difficult to find BxB5 and above !

Code: Select all: BxB 7 3 BxB 6 98 BxB 5 1060 BxB 4 5041 BxB 3 5982 BxB 2 42

i tried very hard to find new BxB6 puzzles but eventually found only a few !

here are possibly probably new ones ! [ they may well be previously known ]

Code: Select all: .2.....894......3...9.7.5......6.9..3.......2.8...2.4...16......7..1..9....5..1..;4202699925;2EGK1A1KKCGI81 #6 ED=11.8/11.8/2.6 #NewCol 202508091 .....6..9.5.1...3...8...4..2......5.53..7......4...9......68...71.23.......7...2.;3562381290;WKH49GJW8mO382 #6 ED=11.7/11.7/2.6 #NewCol 202508092 ..3.....94...8.2...6.7...1.2...9...8..4...3.......1.5.3.8.4.....4.6......7...5...;4421204110;4CAAAY41KLG1Y0 #6 ED=11.6/11.6/2.6 #NewCol 202508093 .2......94..1...3...8..7.......6.34.3.....5...8......25..6.........78...8..54.61.;4777496950;2CHa0Q1HW906P3 #6 ED=11.2/11.2/2.6 #NewCol 202508094 .....6...4...89.....823.........5.16....2.9.....6.7.5.3.9...4...7...3..1.1......5;411219591;W86S0qG1L5Ha24 #5 ED=11.8/11.8/2.6 #NewCol 202508095

I went through new hardest thread and collated these non-tridagon puzzles which arent in the file01
[BxB6 and BxB5 /ED 11.8] I attributed the puzzle with the finder plus date

Code: Select all: 1......89........3..8...56..7..4...66.91......4...2......5...9......43.2....23..7;424268691;16W4JYDG482im4 #6 ED=11.8/11.8/2.6 mith 20210827 1....67....7.8..3....3....4.7...59....82....39.....5...6...1...7..........2.4...1;2334041315;XXI8KCCC8Y80K4 #6 ED=11.7/11.7/7.6 hmon .2...6...4.7..9....8..2...1...63.1.......4.7....8..3.2.1..6...3..5....1.9......5.;2799856673;Ye4I4BW2fIaG12 #6 ED=11.7/11.7/2.6 hmon ....567.....1...36.......5.2..9.......4.68.....8.7.5..3......1...5..46...9.....2.;2898517135;m1n0A1qWA1YC22 #6 ED=11.7/11.7/2.6 mith 20211208 .23...7..4.......66......1....5.8.....57.....97..6.......8.23....2..58.4....4...1;1643492652;69W125CO2eXiG4 #6 ED=11.7/11.7/2.6 hmon ..34......5...9..6...2..1.......8..776.....98......31...4.2....59.....7.8....5...;1562655759;CGa81a36OKOGX0 #6 ED=11.7/11.7/2.6 JPF .....6.8..5.1....3..9....4.2.......553..7......4...8......68...71.23...8...7....2;5074272587;WIX4AWJW8mOZ84 #6 ED=11.3/11.3/2.6 JPF .23.56...4....9..66...7.......7.89.....9..6.8....3..1..1.....2.7.....8.4..5......;2260388587;s8aH0D85I2Ae40 #6 ED=11.8 mith 20211103 ..3..6......1...3.9...7...42.....84..4..9...7..5....6........1..7..2...88.....4.2;4855749987;a0HHCOIaG0IY15 #5 ED=11.8 mith 20210324 1.....78...6.8...278.....5..1.9...7...4..2.......6.......5....7....24..3.9.8..5..;802796692;1ZY3IHa0284cA1 #5 ED=11.8 mith 20220106 .23.5...9.571.....8....3.....97....5......8......654..3....4.6..1.5....2....1....;4577560462;Mq1XWX01EXIXG0 #5 ED=11.8 mith 20211208 ......7..4......23..8...5.4.1..9....3.5..8....6.1..3.....97.6......1.97......2..5;381695842;09m4L2bG9O1QW4 #5 ED=11.8 mith 20210827 ..3....894.....2...89.....1.3...1..57..52.....9...3......7..6.2........8....6.54.;1294390163;4E86KaPG485WG3 #5 ED=11.8 mith 20210827 1.....7.9..6...12........4.2.7.6.....3...8.7..8.5........8.4.5.....2.9.......5.34;256676828;1bO0g2YI1e2AW6 #5 ED=11.8 mith 20210827 ....5...9..71...3.6..2.3...2..6...7..4....8......9...53.2....1.....2.....8...14..;3314358290;GaHf8H21Y522Y1 #5 ED=11.8 HMon 20210421 ....5...9..71.9.3.6..2.3...2..6...7..4....8......9...53.2....1.....2.....8...14..;3314358290;GaLf8H21Y522Y1 #5 ED=11.8/11.8/2.6 Expanded .....6.8..5.1....3..9....4.2.......553..7......8...4......64...71.23...4...7....2;5074355249;WIX4AWJW8mOZ84 #5 ED=11.8 JPF .2......94...8.1....9.....6....483....16...97....1..6.3....1...5....4....72......;572899104;2CA44EC6IX8460 #4 ED=11.8 mith 20210407

For the record here are the expanded puzzles from file01 [BxB7,BxB6 and noteworthy BxB5 and BxB4 which are 11.8]
Its quite possible that I have missed a few.

Code: Select all: BxB7 ..3..6....5.18....6....2...2...6...4......9...7.8...1.....1.89...4.....3.9..7.45.;2828004910;aG3X8Y0HHGZWI3 #7 11.90;Expanded;OW;2015_08;1744614;22; .....6.....718........2...5..85....13.....9...6.....4...2.7...8.4.....6.9.....3..;2032689808;WW3GaX1HGKKG11 #7 11.80;11.80;3.40;tax;m_b_metcalf;22;20; .2...67..4...8......9.......3.....7.5.8...34..1.3....2....9..5....6.1..3...2..6.7;2660636310;Y924GG5JXG2b85 #7 11.80;Expanded;dob;12_12_03;247964;22; BxB6 1....6.8..5......3..9...4...3.9....88....2.1...4...5.......78.....61..2.7...2....;5011249116;XIW4HXXY8W1JH0 #6 11.90;11.90;11.80;GP;champagne dry;1;22; ..3....8..5....2.17...........5.8..6.9.12....8....3....6.9....5..4....7.....1.6.2;1058105225;4Ie10bQ84AaGG5 #6 11.90;11.90;2.60;elev;1;5;22; 1.......9..67...2..8....4......75.3...5..2....6.3......9....8..6...4...1..25...6.;959587;1aH21MaG129YC2 #6 11.80;11.80;11.60;elev;15;7;22; 1.......9..67...2..8....4......75.3...5.62....6.3......9....8..6...4...1..25...6.;959587;1aH21MqG129YC2 #6 Expanded;elev;15;7;22; ...4....9....8.2..6....3.1..7...5.6....9..8......2...45.8......76...1....3.....7.;1668292925;84AXIK81Y5O422 #6 11.80;11.80;11.10;tax;coloin-04-10;13;21; .2.4....9..7....3.6...7.1...4......87.....5....5.1..6.3...6..5......8..2...9.....;1500851931;AaGHHW1XIH2a80 #6 11.80;11.80;10.70;SSX;2019_3_5;2316170;21; 1..4.......6.8...278...3....3..6...7..7..2...9......5....1..4..5......9..7...8..3;732506997;9WYZGYa8G89GY4 #6 11.80;11.80;10.50;dob;12_12_03;248027;22; .2.4.........89......23.6....5....9..3..4.2..7.......1..1....5..6.3..8..9.......7;478439469;A06OXGI9W4I914 #6 11.80;11.80;10.40;Hp54;1;18;21; ....56......1....6.8.3.7....6...3..75......2...4...9...1.7....8..2....4.9.....5..;1963081529;m0XgGa1Y8AaG11 #6 11.80;11.80;10.40;Hp54;4;17;21; ...4....9....8.2..6....3.1..36..1...7.........15....7.3....5.6..6.39.8....42.....;2662530096;84AXo41mGXIBC0 #6 11.80;11.80;8.30;dob;12_12_17s;762567;23; 1.......9.5....2....87...4.2...3......48.5....8.6...7...6..4.5.........1....9.3..;3815389456;1K8CA2iGHa2WG1 #6 11.80;11.80;7.90;elev;11;21;21; 1......89.....91.3.......6...7.4....3....1..5.6.2.....5....89...4..7......26.....;108016763;16i0Y2XK1XH2C0 #6 11.80;11.80;3.40;tax;tarek071223170000-;23;21; .....678........327.....5....1.4.....9.2.....6....7.5.3....58....29......4..1....;574173010;W3m1X2A8KXX1I0 #6 11.80;11.80;3.40;col;H1;24;21; ..34...8.......1.37........2...9.......5..8...6...7.4...51....8.7...5...9...62.5.;198421661;C2e1828HKCK4n2 #6 11.80;11.80;2.60;elev;13;27;22; ......7.9...1...3..8...74...9....5.4.....5..75.6....2...1.6......23.....94...8...;1354033802;05HYHeWiGKW1Z0 #6 11.80;11.80;2.60;GP;H3;26;22; .2...6..94.7....3..9.....5..6...85..3..........1.7.......9..8.2...8.2..5....1..4.;3849004522;YiG2IC1W285bG2 #6 11.80;11.80;2.60;col;2012_11_10;225580;22; ......7.9...1...3..8...74...9....8.5..8..5..75.6....2...2.6......13.....94...8...;1344910538;05HYHeaiGKW1Z0 #6 ..34......5..89...78...2...2....5..7...62.41....9....5.......6.8...9...2..1...3..;1028236854;CG6Z8aO3X0AY41 #6 .....6..94...8.2.....7...1.2.9...8....4.3.9...6.....5.3.8.4.....4.5......7...1...;4735408298;WCA8g8KHGLG1Y0 #6 1....6.......8.2...9.7....5.7.3...5.....716....4....73..59....48...2.....3.......;4026097205;X0AAKHmXmCC220 #6 .2.4..7...57..9.3.6...7......5..8.9.7...2.....4.6..3.......1..85......1...1...9.3;2232257478;AnKHWKHG9WCG45 #6 ..34.........8...668..7.1.....5....1.9..1.6.......2..4..5.....28.....96.97.....1.;1488994025;C0YJ1XI1a4CO32 #6 .2....78....7...23......5....4.1.....6.3....29....5....7.8...6.5....4.....1.9....;244023005;23n0X2AC4AA4K0 #6 ...45...94...89......1......3....6....1....7.9....5..2..7....1.5...2...8.6....3..;72770047;OC68G84Aa4AY21 #6 ....567.....1.....6..37......4.....13...6.9...8.....2.5....73....2.....8.1.....4.;3721112466;m11PWWHHGXXW22 #6 1......89....8.12.......5..2...9...8.7...4.....53.......4..7....3.5.....9...1..6.;253576906;16Q09YYW1aG1H2 #6 ..34..7.......9..2....1..5.2.........38...6..6.43.........2..9......5..1.6.8..3..;706120564;C1aGA06f1G2aA1 #6 ..34..7.......9..2....1..5.27........38...6....43.........2..9......5..1.6.8..3..;706120564;C1aGQ06X1G2aA1 #6 ..34...8..........7....25..2..........49...1.9.....6.7.....5..6..9.1..3..8.34....;280356572;C20X90CAeWaIQ0 #6 .2...6......1...3...9.7...5..5....78.3.....1.8...4.5....4.9.8...6...2...9.......7;1499823324;Y0HKam2AAKH414 #6 ...4.6.8...6.8...2......6...4.3....7..5.4.2..9....1...3..9....5.1...4.....8.7..2.;821510930;eYY0HXK949K4K2 #6 .2...67......8......91.....23.....7..7....34...1.....8....9...5..2..4...6....342.;597597419;Y12COG2ZWGa4X3 #6 .2......9..6.8.1..7......4...856.......8.13.......4....4......7..16..5..9......2.;738307310;2aA1Y3e142a912 #6 1...5......7..9....8.2....4..5....1..3.6....29....7.......62......3..8...6....4.3;1598752943;HW4AaGAC4m0925 #6 .....678....7.91......3...42.4.....5.9.6..8...6......13..........5.2.....1.8.7...;939529430;W3DGiWAHW1W2g0 #6 ...4.6....57.8....6....7...2..6...4....2.4.9.....3...1.1......3.8....5..9.2....7.;3527221195;em2X8He2Y2K852 #6 .2.4.6....57.8....6....7...2..6...4....2.4.9.....3...1.1......3.8....5..9.2....7.;3527221195;gm2X8He2Y2K852 #6 ...4.6....57.8....6....7...2..6..34....2.4.9.....3...1.1......3.8....5..9.2....7.;3527221195;em2X8Pe2Y2K852 #6 ....5.78....1.9......7....1.9...1..3..6.2.....4.9.3....7....3.48......6...2....5.;3066386885;G358KaKG52DG42 #6 ....5.78....1.9......7....129...1..3..6.2.....4.9.3....7....3.48......6...2....5.;3066386885;G358SaKG52DG42 #6 1......89..7.8...6...2..5...3...4...7.8......9.1.7.........56......6..91...3..45.;4542938570;1cY8H45e2W1o83 #6 1.....7.9.57....3..8.7....52...4......68......38....5......1..4....9...2...3..56.;2814043480;1rGAC2CmGW4Y83 #6 ...45...9.5...9.3.......1.52..8.......6.4.....1...53....42...7.8...67....7...4..3;2254050907;OKK0D1KGCCA6Y4 #6 1.....7.9.57....3..8.7....52...4......68......38....5......1..2....9...4...3..56.;2814043484;1rGAC2CmGW4Y83 #6 .23.5...9.571.....6....3....7.9....53....4.7.......8........46......8.....12....7;2635171423;Mq1XGXX28034C4 #6 .23.5...9.571.....6....3.5..7.9....53....4.7.......8........46......8.....12....7;2635171423;Mq1XIXX28034C4 #6 .23.5...9.571.....6....3....7.9....53....4.7.......8........46.7....8.....12....7;2635171423;Mq1XGXX280B4C4 #6 ..3..67...5.1...3.....3...4..8..4...3..52.....9..1..2.7.....6...3.9...1...5.....8;2904756031;aHHGa4PGI1HH44 #6 ..3.5....4.........9.2.1......8..6.1.6.1..2......4..3..8....9.65.9..8.7....9....8;398298620;K80g0fA1I2jK84 #6 ...4.6..9....8..3.....1.6...9.1....75.7.2.....4.9.7...3.....5...7...1..6..2...8..;794319446;e4IGHXLG51Ha41 #6 1..4.......7..9.3.....27.5....8..6.5....35.2...5.7.3...4.........2....936.....8..;4636928731;9WKm2fmYA2Wm11 #6 ...4.6..9....8..3.......6...9.1....75.7.2.....4.9.7...3.....8...7...1..6..2...57.;794319444;e4I0HXLG51Ha43 #6 ..3..67..4...8.....9.2.....2..9......8..4......6..1..5.....7..3......64...1...5.7;3306083837;a92A81IWaW4O45 #6 ..34...8..5....1..7.......6.1....5....8.9..2.6.......7..294........3..4....8.5...;673857545;CI81K8KAWS0Ie0 #6 1......89....8..2.......5.62...9...8.7...4.....53.......4..7....3.5.....9...1..6.;253576906;16I0DYYW1aG1H2 #6 1......89.....9..2......45...76......3..4....9....2..5..4.7....5....8.1..6.3.....;675314459;16a0Z1I8aK8KA0 #6 ....5..8.4....9..6...2..1...6...4..3....1.5....4....2.6..8.....73.......9....3..7;4503474331;GAa8HaGXG9O0X4 #6 ..345.........9......2.34...1......7..4.2.8..9......6...28..5..6......9..7......1;677884823;S04eHWK9GC9G24 #6 ...45..8......91......3..64..1.......9...7...6...4..5.56.3....88.........17...2..;134186419;O2CGc0Y8IBC061 #6 .......8...6...12....2..6.5..15..9..8....3....4..7....3....8.....21....6.7..4....;439137552;0YO8b9XG2XWXI0 #6 1...5........892.....7......7......3..6....4.5....29....4....6.8...1.5...3......7;2683094565;H0E8GW4AC4AA24 #6 11.60;11.60;3.40;tax;StrmCkr ..34......5...9...6...2.1..2...1.8...4.5.......9..3.......6..787......61......4.2;3488292070;CG4H9AAW4GEm05 #6 .....6.....718.......27...1.4.8.....3....2.9...8.1...5.6....3...9.....4...25....7;1715049842;WW3OK1XYY2HGC4 #6 1.....7.9.57....6..8.7.....2....4....68........58...3.....9...4.....1..2...3..65.;5139055304;1rGA846WHG4a83 #6 .23....8...6...13.7.......5.....5..4...8..36.....4......16.82.....1.....9...74...;721038695;6YO14a832i11n0 #6 .2...67..4...8...2..9....5...8....4.5.........3.1..2.....89.....6.3.1..7.....73..;709854886;Y9Y4YG1G9OGbW1 #6 ..3.....945....2...8...75..27...8.....6.1....5............6..9.....94..3...8.24..;2208210623;4S8YP4K80G2ce1 #6 .2.4.6....56..9...7...3....2.....9....59..4..8......17...6.52......1...3.......7.;944252129;gm4H88C9me1Y02 #6 1.....7.9.57....3..8.7....52....4.....68......38....5......1..2....9...4...3..56.;2535483306;1rGAC4CmGW4Y83 #6 ..3..6..9...1...63.....75....196.....4.......7....5......6...21..92...3.8.....4..;5409554544;a4nWX32848cH11 #6 .23.....9.571...3.6.....5............9.2....1..5.4.8..5...6......13....7.....84..;2989188326;6qH110AaAHWXW1 #6 .2...67..4...8......93......6...1.5.3..9.......8.4..........6.8.....2.7..1....52.;2004360314;Y92CGK9W205K23 #6 12.......4......23..9...5..24...3.7...867.........4.......9...8.7...1.3....5..6..;139137902;38m4PKS04GKK81 #6 ..34....9.5..8.1..7....2...2..3......7..6..1...4..7..5.8..9...1..7............86.;228946998;CKAX81IYaIa003 #6 1.......9.57...2.........4...5..78....65.8...9...4......26........8.56...6..3...1;1499907912;1q80YCi82C0DI4 #6 1.......9.57...2.........4...5..78....68.5...9...4......26........5.86...6..3...1;1499909422;1q80YCi82C0DI4 #6 12.....89....8..2...82..5....93....5.....4....7..6.3..6...1.....4...7.....28...5.;422974722;36ICXXWGAHG4C2 #6 ....5.7..4....9.....83....1.8.........12...6.9...7.....6.....18.3.8....28....54..;3619394241;G94CK0CA22MXX1 #6 .2.........6.8.1..7....3.4....91.6.......2..3..583......15...6..4......7....9.8..;506265998;2WAX2BWa3CIWG1 #6 1...5......7..9....8.3..4....5.1..6..6.8....4.....7....3.2...4...2...3.89.......2;2397537405;HW4AXIA44AYe14 #6 ..34..7.......9.....6.2..5.2...1..6...5.92....3.8.....3.....4...7......8..9..5.1.;4719869935;C14KAIqG11HWa2 #6 1....6..9...7...2.....3.5.....5..3...8...1..6....2..7..62......8.......191...4...;306038960;X4HG19Y4I68WZ0 #6 .......89..6...1.....2..6.5..19..5..8....3....4..7....3....8.....21....6.7..4....;441446988;0c88b9XG2XWXI0 #6 .2..5......71.9...6...2....2.......8..4...91...9..3.4....76...5.....13........47.;5269571625;IW5H8W4ZKO4C03 #6 1....67...5.........927......87...4.3....1...57....3.....9....8.6...75......4..2.;5010680365;XH0SWHXO88KCG2 #6 ..34..7...5...9.......3..6.........8..4.7..2.91...........6.2....23...4.8..2.5..1;646116381;CH4G2WKQ0GXHf4 #6 .2...6.....718.......23...4..18....3.......5..9...36..5....8.9..6....8....8.4...7;1377546238;YW3OaX0ICXI8K4 #6 ...45..8......92.....7...452.....3.8..8........586..7.3..........6.7...4.9...1...;5135983376;O2C8Ee4WJ1WYY0 #6 .2.4.......6......7....35....8...9.63...91.7.9...........2....8....1.35.....75.9.;35038165;AW0XXenA084Qm2 #6 ........94.....23......34.52....8.4...69......7..1.....1..7....5....28....96.....;3870703254;0COWDKCG2I8CC0 #6 ..3...7..4...8...6.9.....1...1....9.6....4..5.7....3.....54...25...62......9.....;4599651136;49Y2YGXK8OC680 #6 ....5......71....6.9...3....4.....9...1.2...78.....3.......84....2.1...5...56..7.;3410690785;GWXYGGKC8WXYO2 #6 1...5...9..6....3..8....4..2...95......6........1.2..5.3....8....4....6.9....7..1;698236626;HaG29680b2XGX4 #6 ..3...7..4...8...6.9.....1...1....9.6....4..5.7....3......4...25...62......9.8...;4599651136;49Y2YGXK8GC6e0 #6 ..3.5...94..1......8...7...2.6...3......2.69......5..2...5.4.1.71.8.......5.....3;1427207650;KC1Ye8G3aeQ144 #6 ..3.5...94.....1...8.....6...79....36.....8...1.....4...25.7......82........93..5;618208906;KC82YX1HGi03m4 #6 ..3.5...94.....1...8.....6...79....3.1.....4.6.....8......74......29...5..25.....;618177297;KC82YX2A8m0ZC0 #6 ..3.5...94.....1...8.....6...79....3.1.....4.6.....8.....27.......59......2..4..5;618177309;KC82YX2A8O03a4 #6 ..3.5...94.....1...8.....6...79....3.1.....4.6.....8.....29.......57......2..4..5;618177315;KC82YX2A8O03a4 #6 ..3.5...94.....1...8.....6...79....3.1.....4.6.....8.....293......57......2..4..5;618177315;KC82YX2A8u03a4 #6 ..3..6.8.4..1......9..7......6..85...1..4....7..9.......2...3.........57.....582.;5238250259;aA1IWCI8141mW3 #6 .....678.........3...23...52.1.......6....8..98...74...4...8.9....51......2......;467598926;W3WOi02PCY2340 #6 ..3...78....7....2......56...58....3.1..6....9....4....4...1...6...9......75..2..;629920763;43X0ZXI84Y82C1 #6 1....6.8..5.7....27...3.........86...7.34...8..562...3.47.....55......9.9.....8..;551635936;XIXH0CQaZ6CG11 #6 .2...67..4...8...3..9.2.....476..9..3......4..952..3......6...1...5.26......1..3.;23191887;Y9YKm91o9G4DG2 #6 BxB5 ...4.6........92...9..7..4..1.7...6.8..9..1....5.1...33.....8...4...7.1...2.....5;3437676822;e0CIIH9XY1HK44 #5 11.90;11.90;11.60;GP;kz0;11523;23; ..3....8..5.1....66....74....8.9..4.7....5....1.6..8.....9...2.....2...8..2...3.4;1325583363;4IXXXIXG982Y45 #5 11.90;11.90;11.30;elev;second flush;2;23; .2....7..4...8..3...91..........5..3.......646...3.8....59.....8...4...7.1...2...;521243174;29IC0a0EAC8YY0 #5 11.90;11.90;11.30;tax;Golden-Nugget;3;21; .2.4...8.....8...68....71..2..5...9..95.......4..3.........1..7..28...4.....6.3..;4235182443;A2YX9H6G2WaHG1 #5 11.90;11.90;9.90;elev;3;4;22; 12..56.....71....6.....7.....6.7...13.....9...1.8...4..4.....2...1..8..59.....3..;4126135723;pWXWWY1HH2Ya11 #5 11.90;11.90;9.90;dob;12_12_03;248078;23; ..3..6.8....1..2.6....7...4..9..8.6..3..4...1.7.2.....3....5.....5...6..98.....5.;4708135530;a2fGaKIK1XW832 #5 11.90;1.20;1.20;elev;2;6;22; ...4...8......92..6...7...5...8...9......24...3..1...7316......57.........2.6...3;1512952107;82CH4HWHY7O0K4 #5 11.80;11.80;11.70;dob;12_12_03;248083;22; 1....6.8....7..1........5.6..9.4.....7.2...3.8....76..3....1..5.4.9.......2.7....;251184482;X290b2AACXK1K0 #5 11.80;11.80;11.60;elev;16;8;22; ...4....9..6....2.7...3.5......48...8..5..3...15.73.....2.....65....48...9.....1.;210034584;8aGH169n64CC22 #5 11.80;11.80;11.50;GP;kz1a;15497;23; .2...67..4...8......93........9..57..1...7..2......61.3...4..6...8.......6...5.2.;2428287068;Y92C0PY4OHY0Y2 #5 11.80;11.80;11.50;tarekdb;tarx0075;9;22; ..345........89......23.5...1......7..4..28..9......6...2..84..6......9..7......1;851181739;S06OHWa9Ga9G24 #5 11.80;11.80;11.40;tax;tarek-ultra-0203;10;22; ....567.....1.9...6...7......4.....13...6.9...8.....2.5....73....2.....8.1.....4.;3721112466;m15HWWHHGXXW22 #5 11.80;11.80;11.20;tax;gsf-2007-05-24-003 64879;12 .2.....8....7...23......5.6..4.1.....6.3....29....5....7.8...6.5....4.....1.9....;244023005;22n0b2AC4AA4K0 #5 11.80;11.80;10.80;tax;coloin-04-10;14;21; ...4.6.....6..9.2.7...1.....1..3.4....96...5.8.......7.3......8..2..49.....5...4.;327874452;eWKHGACAW2aC82 #5 11.80;11.80;10.60;PAQ;2019_03_18;2320323;22; ........94....92......7..45..1.3.....7.6..9..8....7..2.3.7..8....6.1....9....5.2.;1531109083;0CCGc2A9aAX2X2 #5 11.80;11.80;10.50;elev;18;16;23; ...4...8...7..92......3...526...1.....19......7....1..5......4..1.8....3..6..29..;1245912394;8YCGS4CG81IXa1 #5 11.80;11.80;9.90;elev;9;19;22; .2.4..7....6.....17...3......5....6..4.2..9.......5..8..1..8....9..7.......92.3..;1030663427;AXWHWGA1aaG2O1 #5 11.80;11.80;9.80;elev;10;20;21; .2.4....9..7.8.2..6.....1.........93.....5.2..9.2..4..5....7....1.3...4...8.6....;2890391137;AaA11mWI9XGHK0 #5 11.80;11.80;9.40;dob;12_12_03;247933;22; 1....6....5...9.6.8..23.....9....54.3.......2.15...6..........7...37......1..4.5.;5335043866;XGKPGO1q8043a2 #5 11.80;11.80;2.60;col;2015_08;1682994;22; 1.....78..5......6......41..3.5.......69.3...9...74.......481....23.....8...9..7.;4007646343;1JW0J1i86mX1H2 #5 11.80;11.80;2.60;PAQ;2019_05_01;2346393;23; 1......8......92....6.3...52....8.....5.7.....6.5....4..47...........91..3..6...7;4502678182;12CKC4KGXC0OI4 #5 11.80;11.80;2.60;elev;14;28;21; ..3.5.7..4....9...6..2.......5...8.3.9.....6.8..........8.1...75....4.2.....3.5.8;1588167288;K949We2A0KCKG5 #5 11.80;11.80;2.60;dob;2012_11_10;225581;22; .2.4.......7.89...6..3.......5..7.9..4......3......85...1...5.......891....61...2;2244369841;AW69WK24O41SO4 #5 11.80;11.80;2.60;GP;H2;25;22; ....5..8....1.9..6...3..1.4.3...14..5......2...8.......9..1.....6.9..3..8.2.73...;4926347681;G2b8LC1Y0IG9r0 #5 11.8 ...4..78.....8.26......2..5.7.3..8..5.......2..9..1..7.65...47..4.6.....9.1......;5314828709;83QWK91aa6J150 #5 11.8 .2...6..9..6...1....8.3..4.2....7..8....4.5.....1...3...2..8..78..57....97.......;454603980;Ya8KAaG1HaC330 #5 11.8 .2..5...94..1...3...6...1.......54..3......6..8..9...2...9.2..7.7.5.8...9...7....;4530192328;ICH41C1IYeK5H0 #5 11.8 ..34.67..45..8............42...6..9...1..3..6...1.......46....7.8...5.4.9...4.2..;986194407;iP20CIa41CKKH1 #5 11.8 1...56.....71......9....1.......3..87..5..9......2..4..7..45.2...2..8..36.....5..;4691181457;nW121a91IoYa11 #5 11.8 .2....78.4.7.....6.9..7..1....5....3.....1.......9.12..7..1.8..5....4.....67.3...;3718546910;2hWI2XW0QI94i0 #5 11.8 .....6.8....1..2...9..7...5..5.4...734.7.8...97.........9...6..7...3...4...2...1.;3658623912;W29IaYhO049Y82 #5 11.8 ..3..6.8....1......9..7...4...8..6..3...4...2.....5.1...2.9...373.......94....5..;3692430876;a21I49H4KKS031 #5 11.8 ...45.....5...9.3.6...2...52..8.......4.6...8.3...5.1.3..5...7......79...7......1;2535025384;OGKHC1KKK92C24 #5 11.8 ....5...9...7...3..8...1......3...7...8..24..6...9...5..2....548....42...14......;909767179;G4HY0Ha9Y4EC60 #5 11.8 1...5.7....7.....6.8...7.4....9..3...6...4..7..8....2.5..3.....8...9.1....2..8.7.;1421761293;HXWY29YaG98Aa2 #5 11.8 BxB4 .2.4....9..7......6....2.5....91.....3...4..1...3..8....5....7..1..4...28.2...6..;2900480550;Aa0X23Y494IY51 #4 11.80;11.80;11.40;GP;H1;11;22; ...4...89..7..92......3...526...1.....19.....7.....1..5...9..4...6..29.....8....3;1245912268;8cCGS4C88HYC84 #4 11.80;11.80;10.70;elev;17;15;23; .2...6......1...3...9.7...5..8....57.3.....1.7...4.8....4.9.5...6.2.....9.......8;2258926682;Y0HKam2AAKH114 #4 11.80;11.80;10.00;col;2015_08;1682984;22; .....67.....1...3...9.2...4.4..9......5..2...89......5.3.....6...8.4...29....71..;2725091410;W1HKK2aOW2YYX1 #4 11.80;11.80;3.40;dob;12_12_03;247946;22; ..34....9.5..8....6....3.1....7.......4.92.......34.72..93....7.1.....6.8.....5..;3374297234;CK2X21q0sCKG11 #4 11.80;11.80;3.40;GP;KZ1C;23862;23; ...4....9.....9.327...3.5..2......6...1.....8.3....25...41.8...6.........1.9.4...;877690784;84qH9G4KOi80g0 #4 11.80;11.80;2.60;MITH;2020_10;3269469;22; .23.5.7...56.....37....3...2...3...63...7...5.4.9.....5...2.6.7..2....1......8...;324629003;MnWX8YHK1HbGW0 #4 11.8 ....5.7.9.5.....2.7..2..6.52.5.7..9.68.92..5...15.8...........45...9..7....3.....;445500993;GLG9jIRY50CI80 #4 11.8 .2.....8..56.....17...3.5.......49....5.9....9..3.7...5...7.4.....8...52.1.....6.;1048371545;2oWH1CK85H1n22 #4 11.8

Website · by **denis_berthier** » Tue Sep 09, 2025 7:42 am

coloin wrote:The breakthrough in optimizing this was to take the opportunity to expand, twin minimize and then expand [-e] the new BxB6 puzzles.

By expand, you mean expansion by Singles?[/quote]

Website · by **denis_berthier** » Tue Sep 09, 2025 8:07 am

.
I think I can now propose a general framework for a T&E(3)-to-high-BxB procedure, based on our talks here and by PM.

Let MIN3 be a set of T&E(3) minimal puzzles and SOL3 the corresponding solutions (both with no duplicates)

Code: Select all: step 0: set k = 0 and define mkpk = MINS3 (mkpk stands for {-k + k}) step 1: compute all the {-1 +1} puzzles of mkpk step 2 (optional): eliminate those with solution in SOL3 (because their chances are low - but any conclusion about their chances would become circular) set mkpk = the set of puzzles obtained at this point (i.e. after k times the elementary {-1 +1} move away from MINS3) step 3: compute all their minimals step 4: keep only those at T&E-depth 2 step 5: keep only those with BxB ≥ 6 ===> hopefully some puzzles with BxB ≥ 7 (I say 6 because it seems to be what you have used) optional steps 6 to 9: step 6: take their BRT-expands step 7: compute all their minimals step 8: keep only those at T&E-depth 2 step 9: keep only those with BxB ≥ 6 ===> hopefully more puzzles with BxB ≥ 7 step 10: set k = k+1 and GOTO step 1

It doesn't include twinning, but it can re-appear as some option - at a place to define.
My purpose here is to see if we can agree on this general description (with possible modifications). It would then be possible to ask which steps have the highest potential.
.

by **coloin** » Tue Sep 09, 2025 12:04 pm

denis_berthier wrote:By expand, you mean expansion by Singles?

I think gsf's -e expands a puzzle up to */*/2.6 ? pointing ? which is slightly more than singles.
It does it consistantly and I think it cant add any information that wasnt already in the puzzle.
However rarely subsequent minimization might reveal a more complex puzzle [which doesnt re-expand back]
Only the new expands [which are at least the original BxB level] need to be rated.
Performing this expansion reduces 5-10 fold the number of puzzles to analyse with SHC.. rather than analysing all the minimals.

Website · by **denis_berthier** » Tue Sep 09, 2025 3:46 pm

coloin wrote:
denis_berthier wrote:By expand, you mean expansion by Singles?

I think gsf's -e expands a puzzle up to */*/2.6 ? pointing ? which is slightly more than singles.
It does it consistantly and I think it cant add any information that wasnt already in the puzzle.

As far as I understand the "logic" of gsf's solver, the kind of expansion should be controlled by the -q option; i.e. one should get exactly expansion by Singles if -qFN is specified.
But what allows to ask for expansion? How do you write the command line with the option with expansion (and do you need to use -e or -E in order to have expansion)?
Is this with or without expansion:
sudoku.exe -f'%#.c' -go{-1+1} -qFN -e'M>0&&uniq()' < file-in > file-out

by **coloin** » Tue Sep 09, 2025 5:49 pm

Indeed I have often thought that a thread which specifically set out the "exact" command lines to perform a specific function using gsf's sudoku-64.exe would be a useful reference.

In this case I successfully scrolled down the menu and this simple command worked

Code: Select all: sudoku-64 -E test.txt > testexpand.txt

Website · by **denis_berthier** » Tue Sep 09, 2025 6:16 pm

Code: Select all

coloin wrote:Indeed I have often thought that a thread which specifically set out the "exact" command lines to perform a specific function using gsf's sudoku-64.exe would be a useful reference.

I've been thinking of it also;
Let's do it.

coloin wrote:In this case I successfully scrolled down the menu and this simple command worked
Code: Select all
sudoku-64 -E test.txt > testexpand.txt

the "manual" says

-E List puzzles just after applying the last easy (non-guess) constraint.

For puzzles in which other rules can apply, I think the safe command to have expansion by Singles only should be sudoku-64 -E -qFN test.txt > testexpand.txt

which suggest that, combined with (-1+1}, you should get the Singles expands of the {-1 +1} with no duplicates, not in T&E(0), and in solution minlex form, in a single command:
sudoku.exe -f'%#.c' -go{-1+1} -qFN -E -e'M>0&&uniq()' < file-in > file-out
I haven't checked.
.

Website · by **denis_berthier** » Fri Sep 12, 2025 10:07 am

Paquita wrote:
denis_berthier wrote:one more general conclusion is, the SHC allows much better computation times than the SER (or even its PGXplainer variant) and it could replace it in the search of the hardest T&E(2) puzzles.

This was a conclusion while no BxB>7 was known. It is no longer true, the SER or its quicker alternative skfr is much faster than SHC. There are differences per system of course, but in my PC a typical B10B takes between 30 minutes and 2 hours. And B9B and B11B are almost equally time consuming. The funny thing is that the B14B costs much less time.

Sorry for my late answer, but you must have been using a VERY old version of the SHC. Have you checked it?
(You can know the version by typing "java -jar SHC.jar version"
If it gives you an error, then the version is at least one year old. Current version is 6.2.)

Now, I've done full computations for a random sample of 10 puzzles for each BxB = 8 to 14 - all from your collections:

Code: Select all: .23.56...45...9...6.9......23....9.4.......5......5831..6.92.4.5..6.4.2....53..9. .23.56...4.........98.....42...473.5......46.5..3...72...62.......5.46.7....73... .23.5....4.......6698.....42..3...753.....46.5...473.2...62...3...5.46.7....7.... .23.56..945...9...6........23....9.4.......5......58313.6.94.2..4.6.2....9.53..4. 1...5...945..8..3..89.....4...8.3.5..1..9.....9.612....3....81..413...95......4.. .....6.89...1.923.........4.64..75..5.9......71.........196...56.57.4....4..15..7 ...45.....57.89......3.7.......9..43..5...8....8...521..4.7.....895.34..73...89.. .23......4..1......98...4.5.8.7.4.51......8.7......94.5...71..8...9...7.9..5.81.4 .2.......45.....636.8.........79..5..3482.........5.3.3....4.288....26.5.62....4. 12..5.7...571.92..6.9.7.5...7..65....1.92..5......1....6....9.4....92.7.......6.8 ..345.7..45.7.92..7.9.32...23.....57....4.3.........6834..9...55.2.......97...... .2.....89...1..2.....3..1542.16.3..868.........9......3...619...6.9........2.83.. ...45.78.....892.......7...29...5.....4...8..638...4....57.892...9.2.5....2....47 ...45.78.....89......2.7...29.8.5.....4......63....4....97.852...5.2.9.8.......47 ...45.78.....89......2.7...29.8.5.....4...8..63....4....57.892.....9.5....9.2..47 ...45.78.....89......2.7...29..45.....8...4..63....8....57.892.....9.5....9.2..47 ..34..7.....78...3....31.642.4......5.1.......3....8.1.......7686..7.31.....6.4.8 ...45.78.....89......2.7...29..45.....8...4..63....8....57.892...9...5....2....47 ...45..8...7..9.....9237.....5....94......1..9.1...8.7.94..5...5.8..4.1.71...84.5 1..4.678.....8..366.....4.1....48......63.......7.13.83.......7.64.17....92.....3 1...567.....18.2.....2.7...2.57.8...36........48...6.....87......6.1257...2..51.8 ....567.....7.9...78923....2.8..34.73...4......4...3...32...9.884.9...739.73..2.. ..3.56......18.......2.3.14.6...7.....5..1.63..1..547.37.....5.5.4.......16...3.. .2...6....571..2..6.8..75...618.5.7..7..21......6...........89.......1.4...518.27 .2...6....571..2..6.8..75...615.8.7..7..21......6...........89.......1.4...815.27 1.3.5.7.........3669..7.1.5...89........65...7.92.4...5.....91.......5.3.3...1.67 1.3..67.9.57..9.36.............671.5..92.5......94...........615...3.9.7..6...35. .....67.94.7...23........542.6.78.4.3..........8........4.628..6..73....7.28.43.. 1..4..78.......2.6....72.412.6.17...7.5.....889...........4........68..4.6.7.18.2 .2.45..89....8912..8...2..4..7.......98...21561............8.4...2.1.95...4...... .2.45..8.45..89.3.9..3...5.2..93....38..24.....45.8.........6.....29..4........91 ..34.....4.7.89...69..3...4.69..8...7.46..8..83.97.4..........1...367..8.......5. 1.3.56.....71....686......5......9.........4....7386.158..61.....187....7..5.3... ..3......4.7.89...69..3...4.69.48...7.46..8..83.97.4..........1...367..8.......5. .2..567.9.5.1.9.6....27..15..4........5691...8..........2....71....1.9.....7.56.2 1.3.56.....718...686......5......9.........4....7386..58..61....31.7.5..7....3... .2..567...5.18.2.....7.2...2.5.......81......67.5...1.......6.37.8....21...6..84. 1.3.56.8..57.8..3.68...7....6..35...73.8.1...8.5.7........1.96.........4.16....7. 1...56.8..57.8..3.68.3.7.5..6..35...73.8.1...8.5.7........1.96.........4.16...... 1.3..6.8..57....3.68...7.5..61.38...5.8.7....73.5.1.......1.96.........4..6....7. ....567..4..189......2..5...459..87..9.......8.1.......7....1..5...4..97..8.1.45. 12...6..9.57..92..6.9..7.....13.5.......92.57....41.....6...9.1.12...57.........6 1..4.6......78.1.37...3..64..43..8.7...1...46.......1.34.....7869.......8.26..... 1.3.5.78........3668..7.5...68......37....16.5.1...8..73.815........4......23.... .234..78.4.67...3..8....4.62..........4...2...78.2.36....69.......8.1...86734.... .234..78.4..7...3..8....4.62........6.4...2...78.2.36....69.......8.16..8.734.... ..34..78.4.67...32.8....4.62..........4...2...78.2.36....69.......8.16..8.734.... ...4.6....57189.......2.4...45...1.787.......9.1.......8.5....4..4...97.71.9..5.8 ....5..89.5.18.23.......1.52..59.8.1....21.9.9..3.....34.........6.3....895.....2 ...4.67...5.189.......2.4...45...1.787.......9.1.......8.5...14..4...9..71.9..5.8 ...45........89...7981.2...2.9.....8.8.....1261...897..72.1..96...6......6......1 .23.....94.7...2..68..7........6......67.892.....126...1.89.........719..7.6..8.2 .23...7.94.7......68.2.........6......67.892.....126...1.89........2719..7.6..8.. .23...7.94........68.27........6......67.892.....126...1.89........2719..7.6..8.. ..3..6...4...89..3.......6.......4.7...92483........123.8.42....628.....9..6.32.. ..3..6...4...89.2........6.......4.7...92.83...4....1.3.8.42....628..3..9..6.32.. ..3..6...4...89.2.....3..6.......4.7...92.83...4....123.8.42....628..3..9..6..... .23....8.4.71.9...8...........6...4.6..7.8.919....46.7....6..7...6..7.......41..8 12....789.56......7............7..9....9.4.1.9..21.4.8.928...71.4......2....2..4. .....678....7.91.3.......6..3....9.1.6.9.3.7..8...16..31....8.7.75.98.....2...... .23456.....6......79.......24.36.8.5...8..2...8..2.......6.245...2..83.6...53...2 .23456...4.6......79.......24.36.8.5...8..2...8..2.......6..45.....483.6..453...2 .23...7.9.5...9.....9.....5247.35.......71......62....53....2.4.7..4.5..9......73 .23...7...5...9.....9.....5247.35.......71......62....53....2.4.7..4.59.9......73 .2....7..45.7.9...7..2...........69.3.4...25....9...415.739......25.4...94...2.3. .23...7...5...9.....9.....524..35.......71......62...753....2.4.7..4.59.9......73 .23...7.9.5...9.....9.....524..35.......71......62...753....2.4.7..4.5..9......73 .23456.....6......79........4.36.8.5...8..2...8..2..........45...2..83.6...53...2 .23456.....6......79.......24.36.8.5...8..2...8..2.........245......83.6...53...2 .23456...4.6......79.......24.36.8.5...8..2...8..2..........45......83.6...53...2 ......7.9456....31......56..1......863.8.4..58..1.....34..18...5..64.......3.5.1. ......7.9456....31.......6..1......863.8.4..58..1.....34..18.5.5..64.......3.5.1. ......7.9456....31......56..1......863.8.4..58..1.....34...8.....164.......3.5.1. ......7.9456....31......56..1......863.8.41.58..1.....34...8.....164......83.5... ......7.9456....31......56..1......863.8.41.58..1.....34...8...5.164.......3.5... ......7.9456....31.......6..1......863.8.41.58..1.....34...8.5...164.......3.5... ......7.9456....31.......6..1......863.8.4..58..1.....34...8.5...164.......3.5.1. ......7.9456....31......56..1......863.8.41.58..1.....34..18.....164.......3.5... ......7.9456....31.......6..1......863.8.41.58..1.....34..18.5.5..64......83.5... ......7.9456....31......56..1......863.8.41.58..1.....34..18...5..64......83.5...

Here are the computation times:

Code: Select all: sudoku 1 x = 7 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 2s Chains buffer: 4389 - 4801 /1000000 sudoku 2 x = 7 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 5s Chains buffer: 32041 - 32041 /1000000 sudoku 3 x = 7 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 7s Chains buffer: 32041 - 32041 /1000000 sudoku 4 x = 7 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 9s Chains buffer: 4389 - 4801 /1000000 sudoku 5 x = 7 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 11s Chains buffer: 3256 - 6352 /1000000 sudoku 6 x = 7 Time = 10s Cumulated time = 21s Chains buffer: 8614 - 15861 /1000000 sudoku 7 x = 7 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 23s Chains buffer: 4022 - 11219 /1000000 sudoku 8 x = 7 Time = 1s Cumulated time = 25s Chains buffer: 4530 - 5616 /1000000 sudoku 9 x = 7 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 27s Chains buffer: 4998 - 7487 /1000000 sudoku 10 x = 7 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 29s Chains buffer: 2891 - 13151 /1000000 => mean7 = 2.9s sudoku 11 x = 8 Time = 4s Cumulated time = 33s Chains buffer: 4249 - 21314 /1000000 sudoku 12 x = 8 Time = 4s Cumulated time = 37s Chains buffer: 14247 - 36423 /1000000 sudoku 13 x = 8 Time = 4s Cumulated time = 41s Chains buffer: 6200 - 18621 /1000000 sudoku 14 x = 8 Time = 4s Cumulated time = 45s Chains buffer: 6200 - 18621 /1000000 sudoku 15 x = 8 Time = 4s Cumulated time = 49s Chains buffer: 6200 - 18621 /1000000 sudoku 16 x = 8 Time = 4s Cumulated time = 54s Chains buffer: 6200 - 18621 /1000000 sudoku 17 x = 8 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 56s Chains buffer: 3955 - 6288 /1000000 sudoku 18 x = 8 Time = 4s Cumulated time = 1m0s Chains buffer: 6200 - 18621 /1000000 sudoku 19 x = 8 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 1m3s Chains buffer: 8178 - 18984 /1000000 sudoku 20 x = 8 Time = 5s Cumulated time = 1m8s Chains buffer: 3785 - 17296 /1000000 => mean8 = 3.9s sudoku 21 x = 9 Time = 7s Cumulated time = 1m15s Chains buffer: 21465 - 57013 /1000000 sudoku 22 x = 9 Time = 9s Cumulated time = 1m24s Chains buffer: 26763 - 93595 /1000000 sudoku 23 x = 9 Time = 1s Cumulated time = 1m25s Chains buffer: 4616 - 4616 /1000000 sudoku 24 x = 9 Time = 11s Cumulated time = 1m36s Chains buffer: 54040 - 54040 /1000000 sudoku 25 x = 9 Time = 11s Cumulated time = 1m47s Chains buffer: 54040 - 54040 /1000000 sudoku 26 x = 9 Time = 6s Cumulated time = 1m54s Chains buffer: 2903 - 55327 /1000000 sudoku 27 x = 9 Time = 5s Cumulated time = 1m59s Chains buffer: 4817 - 57013 /1000000 sudoku 28 x = 9 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 2m2s Chains buffer: 37348 - 37348 /1000000 sudoku 29 x = 9 Time = 12s Cumulated time = 2m14s Chains buffer: 14762 - 35818 /1000000 sudoku 30 x = 9 Time = 8s Cumulated time = 2m22s Chains buffer: 39313 - 90736 /1000000 => mean9 = 7.4s sudoku 31 x = 10 Time = 41s Cumulated time = 3m3s Chains buffer: 36937 - 76835 /1000000 sudoku 32 x = 10 Time = 31s Cumulated time = 3m34s Chains buffer: 30544 - 103054 /1000000 sudoku 33 x = 10 Time = 30s Cumulated time = 4m5s Chains buffer: 105801 - 105801 /1000000 sudoku 34 x = 10 Time = 31s Cumulated time = 4m36s Chains buffer: 30544 - 103054 /1000000 sudoku 35 x = 10 Time = 27s Cumulated time = 5m3s Chains buffer: 10945 - 64029 /1000000 sudoku 36 x = 10 Time = 31s Cumulated time = 5m34s Chains buffer: 105801 - 105801 /1000000 sudoku 37 x = 10 Time = 28s Cumulated time = 6m2s Chains buffer: 17777 - 76051 /1000000 sudoku 38 x = 10 Time = 1m20s Cumulated time = 7m22s Chains buffer: 49992 - 161903 /1000000 sudoku 39 x = 10 Time = 1m19s Cumulated time = 8m40s Chains buffer: 49992 - 161903 /1000000 sudoku 40 x = 10 Time = 1m19s Cumulated time = 9m59s Chains buffer: 49992 - 161903 /1000000 => mean10 = 45.7s sudoku 41 x = 11 Time = 22s Cumulated time = 10m22s Chains buffer: 77334 - 182180 /1000000 sudoku 42 x = 11 Time = 18s Cumulated time = 10m40s Chains buffer: 26160 - 78913 /1000000 sudoku 43 x = 11 Time = 27s Cumulated time = 11m7s Chains buffer: 180691 - 218675 /1000000 sudoku 44 x = 11 Time = 37s Cumulated time = 11m43s Chains buffer: 79378 - 182180 /1000000 sudoku 45 x = 11 Time = 40s Cumulated time = 12m23s Chains buffer: 73247 - 123868 /1000000 sudoku 46 x = 11 Time = 40s Cumulated time = 13m3s Chains buffer: 73247 - 123868 /1000000 sudoku 47 x = 11 Time = 40s Cumulated time = 13m43s Chains buffer: 73247 - 123868 /1000000 sudoku 48 x = 11 Time = 19s Cumulated time = 14m2s Chains buffer: 63625 - 84762 /1000000 sudoku 49 x = 11 Time = 20s Cumulated time = 14m22s Chains buffer: 97988 - 97988 /1000000 sudoku 50 x = 11 Time = 19s Cumulated time = 14m41s Chains buffer: 63625 - 84762 /1000000 => mean11 = 28.2s sudoku 51 x = 12 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 14m43s Chains buffer: 31385 - 31624 /1000000 sudoku 52 x = 12 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 14m45s Chains buffer: 47312 - 47312 /1000000 sudoku 53 x = 12 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 14m48s Chains buffer: 47312 - 47312 /1000000 sudoku 54 x = 12 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 14m50s Chains buffer: 47312 - 47312 /1000000 sudoku 55 x = 12 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 14m52s Chains buffer: 50883 - 50883 /1000000 sudoku 56 x = 12 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 14m54s Chains buffer: 50883 - 50883 /1000000 sudoku 57 x = 12 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 14m57s Chains buffer: 50883 - 50883 /1000000 sudoku 58 x = 12 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 15m0s Chains buffer: 51214 - 51214 /1000000 sudoku 59 x = 12 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m2s Chains buffer: 34630 - 34630 /1000000 sudoku 60 x = 12 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 15m5s Chains buffer: 55051 - 55051 /1000000 => mean12 = 8.4s sudoku 61 x = 13 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 15m7s Chains buffer: 31070 - 31070 /1000000 sudoku 62 x = 13 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 15m10s Chains buffer: 31070 - 31070 /1000000 sudoku 63 x = 13 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m12s Chains buffer: 44098 - 44098 /1000000 sudoku 64 x = 13 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m14s Chains buffer: 44098 - 44098 /1000000 sudoku 65 x = 13 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m16s Chains buffer: 41456 - 41456 /1000000 sudoku 66 x = 13 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m19s Chains buffer: 44098 - 44098 /1000000 sudoku 67 x = 13 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m21s Chains buffer: 44098 - 44098 /1000000 sudoku 68 x = 13 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 15m23s Chains buffer: 31070 - 31070 /1000000 sudoku 69 x = 13 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m26s Chains buffer: 31070 - 31070 /1000000 sudoku 70 x = 13 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m28s Chains buffer: 31070 - 31070 /1000000 => mean13 = 2.3s sudoku 71 x = 14 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m31s Chains buffer: 53346 - 53346 /1000000 sudoku 72 x = 14 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m33s Chains buffer: 53346 - 53346 /1000000 sudoku 73 x = 14 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 15m36s Chains buffer: 53346 - 53346 /1000000 sudoku 74 x = 14 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m38s Chains buffer: 53346 - 53346 /1000000 sudoku 75 x = 14 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 15m41s Chains buffer: 53346 - 53346 /1000000 sudoku 76 x = 14 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m43s Chains buffer: 53346 - 53346 /1000000 sudoku 77 x = 14 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 15m46s Chains buffer: 53346 - 53346 /1000000 sudoku 78 x = 14 Time = 3s Cumulated time = 15m48s Chains buffer: 53346 - 53346 /1000000 sudoku 79 x = 14 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m51s Chains buffer: 53346 - 53346 /1000000 sudoku 80 x = 14 Time = 2s Cumulated time = 15m53s Chains buffer: 53346 - 53346 /1000000 => mean14 = 2.5s

It is true that the highest mean is for BxB = 10 (for reasons I already explained) but we are very far from the times you announced.
The absolute maximum is 1m20s and the maximum mean value is 45.7s (not your 1.5 or 2 hrs) - and this is all on 1 thread !!!

I don't even want to try to compute the SER (or FPGX) for the 80 puzzles. It would take hours. I don't know for skfr, but I strongly doubt it would be much better. If you do it on Unix, don't forget to put "time" before your command and to report the full output so that we can sort out the effects of parallelism.

[Edit]: you may be tempted to drastically increase buffer-size, but beware that beyond some limit depending on your machine, Java will waste much time at the start trying to get all the memory necessary for it - and it will be useless for most of the puzzles. In the above computations, I used the default values.
.
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by **Paquita** » Fri Sep 12, 2025 12:20 pm

Thank you Denis, I did use an old version, I updated it.

I have new puzzles

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by **Paquita** » Fri Sep 12, 2025 12:22 pm

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by **Paquita** » Fri Sep 12, 2025 12:24 pm

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by **Paquita** » Fri Sep 12, 2025 12:25 pm

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by **Paquita** » Fri Sep 12, 2025 12:25 pm

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The New Sudoku Players' Forum

The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

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Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

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Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles

Re: The BxB classification of T&E(2) puzzles